Brawl+ 5.0 RC1 Tactical Discussion Thread

[Isatis]

The custom title is a vBrawl argument, it doesn't relate to B+, the only reason I wanted PictoChat unbanned in MD/VA was that we have top tiers often dominating and PictoChat would simply give lower chars more options <_>

Back on topic...

 

[GHNeko]

Why would ANYONE ban pictochat?

It's more of a legal stage than Rainbow Cruise and others.

EDIT: oh. lolbrawl.

 

[Isatis]

Well, I do want it to be a counterpick in B+ too, but I don't have as strong a reason lol

 

[GHNeko]

It should already be a CP. <_<

 

[Kazz@]

Hear hear :V

And BionicSonic too, I always play on PC.

 

[MK26]

the reasoning for it being cp is because theres no reason to ban it

does anyne disagree with neutrals being

fd
bf
sv
lc
yi melee
ps2
ww (singles)/wwr(doubles)

 

[GHNeko]

LC = CP. **** what anyone says. Those ledges are dumb and sharking works there.

 

[Dan_X]

Omg, I hate Brinstar and RC! I can't believe they're legal. IMHO I think a tourney match should showcase skill on a neutral, or "more fair" level. I'd rather know that I can beat my opponen with skill alone than have the reason they lost be directly related a terrible level. I just hate the thought of gimmicks. RC, for example, seems like the least realistic setting for a serious bout. Instead it becomes a game of who can survive the map. Just plain stupid. Certain characters perform pefectly well on most any maps, even RC, because they have safe options.

For example, while at SNES, I watched Lain (one of the best IC players in the world) fight M2K's MK on RC. In the maps previous he had held his own, this match decided the winner of the set. Lain was ravaged on this map, and unsurprisingly so. As if MK needs the added benefit of the map killing the enemy for him. For MK, he effortlessly traverses the stage while his opponent often stuggles with the obstacle course.

I just doesn't seem to me that winning on RC shows much of skill in comparison to a "fair" level.

Edit:
I'd definately peg LC as a CP. Seriously, those ledges make FD's look good. I get tappd under the edge so frequently in LC. It's so stupid.

 

[CloneHat]

LC = CP. **** what anyone says. Those ledges are dumb and sharking works there.

I agree. Ledges destroy people with a hard-to-sweetspot recovery.

There's nothing wrong with RC IMO, it's not like it's that hard to survive. The reason it destroyed the ICs is because they have no even ground to work with.

 

[Dan_X]

I agree. Ledges destroy people with a hard-to-sweetspot recovery.

There's nothing wrong with RC IMO, it's not like it's that hard to survive. The reason it destroyed the ICs is because they have no even ground to work with.

Exactly: "they had no even ground to work with.."

that's stupid. It's not a FAIR match. I'd much rather fight a character on SmashVille, even if that is their best map.

 

[GHNeko]

RC is perfectly fine CP as the stage moves slow enough for you to traverse with EASE. You can react to generally everything there with little to no trouble and there are no random aspects about the stage and no damaging stage hazards. It's large as well and as nothing standout-ish broken or dumb about it.

CPs are made to help certain characters and/or damage the ability of your opponent's character. RC does that without being random, too fast, or other dumb ****. You can't even camp that stage properly. OR Circle camp.

 

[CloneHat]

Exactly: "they had no even ground to work with.."

that's stupid. It's not a FAIR match. I'd much rather fight a character on SmashVille, even if that is their best map.

Not FAIR? Come on, name a stage that is fair. FD? No, it's bad edges aren't fair. A stage with any edges? Not fair for people who have bad recoveries.

A stage is always going to be disadvantageous to one party in some way or another, whether it plays against the strengths of a character or a player.

 

[MK26]

yuo have to aim ABOVE lc's ledges to sweetspot...

 

[CloneHat]

yuo have to aim ABOVE lc's ledges to sweetspot...

Then there's NO way at all it can be a neutral I guess.

 

[RPGsFTW]

the reasoning for it being cp is because theres no reason to ban it

does anyne disagree with neutrals being

lc
yi melee
ww (singles)/wwr(doubles)

Lylat Cruise's ledge definitely make it a CP. I'd say at least. Your recovery has to be beyond precise sometimes. It feels impossible for so many character to recover at all sometimes.

I'm pretty sure you mean Yoshi's Island (Brawl), right?

Also, personally, I'd rather have WarioWare CP and Wifi-Waiting Room just not a stage, because I think it's stupid, but that doesn't help. >_>

I'd like to check myself about Onett's middle to be sure, but I can only hope that if it gets changed for the better.

Oh, and does everyone not agree on the Skyworld set-up I've been talking about before?

Skyworld:
- Permanent broken top.
- RIGHT part of the LEFT platform should STAY broken. The two side platforms like that should be either permanent or able to regenerate slowly.
- Whole main bottom area CANNOT break, INCLUDING the left ledge, so tether characters can still grab that side.
- Moving platform at the bottom to be permanent.

Much less of another FD.

 

[MK26]

well, technically not above...just higher than usual, and that really only applies to horizontal recoveries

learn the stage. the mistake everybody makes is aiming for (closeup of ledge)

______
      |
      |
______| <--

when they should be aiming for

______
      | <--
      |
______|

EDIT: @RPGs, yes, yi brawl
v_v"

and i agree with your skyworld idea as well, with the side platforms regenerating the normal speed they regenerate at

also, any stage with a permanent walkoff is a ban in my book...

 

[GHNeko]

Aiming higher than the ledge in order to grab it because it tilts is dumb because that ruins the purpose of sweetspotting, which is to not get punished for recovering.

Having the ledge tilt at the last second to open up a punishment window for a move that would of otherwise sweetspotted is silly.

And isnt the tilting random? fffff sakurai

 

[CloneHat]

also, any stage with a permanent walkoff is a ban in my book...

Look both ways before you cross the street. Or camp on it.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Has there been any news about any new stage builder options? Some allowing us to recreate Smash64/Melee stages, or SSE stages?

The no walk-offs reminds me of Mushroom Kingdom 2 in Melee and how it was a CP/Banned, lol. What a funny stage.

 

[GHNeko]

also, any stage with a permanent walkoff is a ban in my book...

I disagree. I'm **** sure there is a way to work with those stages. I've already turned Onett into ****-tastic CP material, and I have my ideas for Distant planet drawn out. MK1-2 is drawn out as well. MK1-1 I havnt started working on. Mario Circuit has an idea drawn out as the level is amazing and I never realized it cuz I never played on it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

^ Make sure you fix the ganon infinite flame choke crap on Distant Planet. lolz

 

[MK26]

higher is a relative term...as opposed to sweetspotting with phantasm on halberd, on which you have to go absurdly low to not go through the ledge (etc. etc.)

when i say "permanent walkoff", i mean in its current form. If you can fix it, i wont write it off, but Distant Planet/Onett/Circuit/MK 1-1/whatever else are not justifiable at this time

EDIT: I'll eventually go check to see if the tilting is random, but dont write the stage off until you spend 10 minutes with it in training mode. Making Lylat CP is like making FD CP...which ive heard the midwest is actually doing lol

 

[SymphonicSage12]

WHAT? I live in the Midwest. That is ****ing terrible. The only reason FD is bad is because of its ledges (which aren't that bad) and projectile spamming...but you have that same problem on Smashville, YI, or any stage.

 

[GHNeko]

Distant Planet (Plausable)

Idea - Rain is constantly running, and the stage is slowed to 66%

Onett (Complete)

Changes - Stage is set to run at 175% speed, increasing the frequency of the cars. The side boundaries have been moved out as well. This severely hurts blastzone camping and center stage camping.

Circuit (Brainstorming)

Idea - Move the camera and blast zone out, but keep the area where you enter the bubble zone the same.

MK1-1 (Brainstorming)

Idea - I got nothing yet. >:

 

[SymphonicSage12]

What about your MK1-2 idea? I love that so much D:

 

[GHNeko]

The idea is already drawn out, we just dont have the ability to mod it like that. >_>

Just not completely.

 

[MK26]

I think it was the midwest...i know it's the circuit that OS is running, wherever he is

Also, im 99.999% certain that lylat's tilting is not random in that it will tilt to one side, and will not tilt back to that side until it has tilted to the other side

@ideas: i'm intrigued. keep me updated.

 

[jokey665]

making FD CP...which ive heard the midwest is actually doing lol

I think it was the midwest...i know it's the circuit that OS is running, wherever he is

Yep. The new Midwest Circuit will be using FD as a counterpick instead of a starter. It will also be introducing a few custom stages. I believe it will be one starter and two counterpicks.

 

[GHNeko]

Midwest is smart. FD should be a counter pick LOL.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yay! Does that mean I'm smart? :D

 

[GHNeko]

Yay! Does that mean I'm smart? :D

....

I refuse to respond to that post. Because it is too easy.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Yep. The new Midwest Circuit will be using FD as a counterpick instead of a starter. It will also be introducing a few custom stages. I believe it will be one starter and two counterpicks.

I love them already. I ban FD almost every tournament I ever go to just because I hate playing on it. I sometimes save that ban for something else, but I hate FD soo much.

@GHNeko:
Will Distant Planet still have the bulborb then since it won't be frozen?

 

[GHNeko]

Yea. Bulborb is a legit stage hazard. It's not broken or anything. Maybe above average, but not broken or OP.

 

[Dan_X]

I would LOVE to use custom stages in the tourney setting... What ever happened to cyberglitches community map packs?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

the custom stages are so boring and lifeless though...

 

[jokey665]

the custom stages are so boring and lifeless though...

Like your m-

Too easy.

 

[jalued]

the custom stages are so boring and lifeless though...

They are also genereally too big. Would be awesome if u could texture them exactly like old melee and 64 stages though!!! maybe with the clone engine...

 

[shanus]

I would LOVE to use custom stages in the tourney setting... What ever happened to cyberglitches community map packs?

Brawl+ without homebrew says hi!

 

[SymphonicSage12]

>.> but seriously. There's no character to them. It's just a bunch of the same blocks. You people are so mean!!!!!


and yeah, brawl+ without homebrew requires the disable custom stages hack.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I would LOVE to use custom stages in the tourney setting... What ever happened to cyberglitches community map packs?

I like that idea too, but...

the custom stages are so boring and lifeless though...

I agree with this sadly.

But maybe if we can texture the custom stages to look more like Smash64/Melee/SSE stages with custom music they can be fun. The problem I see is how overlapping things to get the right look/effect also gets many stupid, negative side effects. Not being able to roll over a certain line/block, edge not being grab-able, etc.