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Brawl+ 5.0 RC1 Tactical Discussion Thread

SymphonicSage12

SymphonicSage12

Smash Master
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Messages
3,299
It's because Peach really doesn't have any disjointed moves (besides forward tilt, but that's really slow, and the outer-most hitbox has bad priority). :(

Well, she does have uair and dair, but neither or those help at all with marth fair.
 
B3Brawler

B3Brawler

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
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Edmonton
Somebody link me to a vid where marth double Fairs cuz I've been trying for a week and no dice. Besides that stuff is cool. I'll quit *****ing about falco cuz yeah he is sexy to play. Same with donkey kong.
 
RPGsFTW

RPGsFTW

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
754
SymphonicSage12 said:
It's because Peach really doesn't have any disjointed moves (besides forward tilt, but that's really slow, and the outer-most hitbox has bad priority). :(

Well, she does have uair and dair, but neither or those help at all with marth fair.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure her Utilt is disjointed.
 
GHNeko

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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As if I was trying. I was just annoyed that people say that SHDF is not possible or some **** like that so I just tossed out a few SHDF. I wasnt trying to nail all of them.

I just recently moved to 90 because I dont like marth's new SH. Hell. I havn't played Marth in weeks actually simply because of my dislike for his SH. It's mostly been Wolf, Mario, MK, Jiggs.
 
Alphatron

Alphatron

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,269
I was never a Marth man myself so I can't speak much on him. My Marth is the vbrawl tipper fair spam version, and B+ Marth is really different to me. Why was his short hop changed anyway?

Off topic: Nightmare fuel avatars are all the rage now. <3 Kirby Dreamland 3.
 
SymphonicSage12

SymphonicSage12

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I was mostly basing "disjointed" moves in proportion to marth fair. upwards disjoint does nothing against marth fair.
 
RPGsFTW

RPGsFTW

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Messages
754
First of all, I don't understand the **** search function on SWF at all. It doesn't seem like it searches for me. It's possible that I'm doing it wrong, but I'm not sure. I just looked through ten pages to get here.

So I wanted to talk about a Brawl+ tournament that I entered today.

First thing about it is that we didn't get any replays from the tournament, unfortunately. Second, however, is that I wanted to say that I played SK92 and Fow, some of our state's best vBrawl players in Brawl+ for their first time. They beat the **** out of everyone. And it just so happens that they play Falco (SK92) and Ness (Fow). And of course, there is a lot of whining going on about those characters.

The reason I bring that up is this: I placed 3rd today, losing to SK92 and Fow, they got 1st/2nd. The thing that bothered me was that I played and had close, really fun matches with a lot of people. However, when I played SK92 and Fow, they played way beyond better than everyone else in a way I've never seen.

SK92 figured out that with a higher enough buffer, he was able to do Falco's Dair SUPER fast, easily getting 50+ before you can even think to tech sometimes. That and he noticed that he can freely Side-B back and forth, with about no worry at all.

Fow on the other hand is good with vBrawl Ness in general, and is Vegas' 2nd best on our PowerRankings for vBrawl. SK92 is 1st, of course. Probably the reason Fow was so ****ed hard to fight was because:

- Ness' Fair is ridiculous. He can throw it out there any time he wants and is really safe. That and it combos into everything too easy. Ness' Fair being too good is already known now, but I wanted to add more to it, so hopefully it gets changed faster. >=[

- PK Fire easily intercepts many recoveries, and is especially effective on fatties. Way too effective I'd say.

- His Nair. I don't know if it's just me, but every time Fow shielded, he'd Nair out of shield and always hit the other guy, no matter if they jumped at him with an attack. It seemed too effective.

I got 3rd in our singles and 2nd in teams! Yay for Vegas finally starting on Brawl+. <3
 
[TSON]

[TSON]

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oTSONo
RPGsFTW said:
- His Nair. I don't know if it's just me, but every time Fow shielded, he'd Nair out of shield and always hit the other guy, no matter if they jumped at him with an attack. It seemed too effective.
Click to expand...
ALL characters (well, with a few exceptions) have a safe and effective nair out of shield.
 
D

Dan_X

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SK92 figured out that with a higher enough buffer, he was able to do Falco's Dair SUPER fast, easily getting 50+ before you can even think to tech sometimes. That and he noticed that he can freely Side-B back and forth, with about no worry at all.
Click to expand...
Enemies enter tumble early in Brawl+, which has to do with the hitstun constant, so this may facilitate repeated Dair -> Dair bouncing off the stage. However, this is entirely techable. Side-B has NOT been buffed in Brawl+, if he can go back and forth in + he could have done the same in vBrawl. It's not as safe as you make it out to be. Especially if the person fighting Falco is use to the matchup.
 
RPGsFTW

RPGsFTW

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Messages
754
Orca said:
Enemies enter tumble early in Brawl+, which has to do with the hitstun constant, so this may facilitate repeated Dair -> Dair bouncing off the stage. However, this is entirely techable. Side-B has NOT been buffed in Brawl+, if he can go back and forth in + he could have done the same in vBrawl. It's not as safe as you make it out to be. Especially if the person fighting Falco is use to the matchup.
Click to expand...
He never Dair -> repeated until you got meteored of the stage, he was just able to pull off a good amount of Dairs on a grounded opponent before they even fell over and had the option to tech.

I don't know if Falco's Side-B was truly changed or not, besides Brawl+'s speed and hitstun, but he definitely had a safe time with Falco's Side-B.

And or course, I don't know if people don't recognize him by name alone, but SK92 has been one of the best Falco players for a long time, back in Melee as well. He definitely knows how to use this Falco very effectively. I also don't play him much outside of team game, so I'm not too used to how a really good Falco plays.

Can somebody tell me why I've heard some people say that Wario+ is very easy to play? always feel like I'm the one who has to try in the match to actually win. =/
 
GHNeko

GHNeko

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Wario is a top 3 Brawl character and only had a few nerfs into Brawl+.

He has some pretty easy combos from what I've seen from Ally.


And it's impossible to be able to dair more than twice with falco and not tech on reaction/prediction. <_<
 
RPGsFTW

RPGsFTW

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Messages
754
I think it's SK92's mindgames alone then. You guys would need to play him and see for yourselves.

I tech all the time, but teching out of his Dairs was really difficult. =[
 
leafgreen386

leafgreen386

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Falco's sideB was most certainly buffed in the transition to brawl+, albeit not directly. At the very least, shieldstun makes the move very safe, and the triple jump glitch fix may have also facilitated IAP spam.

The dair stuff you're talking about is easily techable.
 
D

Dan_X

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I'd like for Cape's set to become the standard. In my experience with it thus far it has proven excellently. I also like many of the new mehanics implemented. NADT is great, lower hitstun... Falco's side-b has been nerfed. His jabs have also been nerfed, fixing many complaints right there. Ness has also been nerfed, namely PKT1 and Fair. Fair can only combo with the hitboxes closest to Ness's body, the outer hitboxes push the enemy away. It takes skill to use Fair appropriately, as spacing is very important. It's nowhere near as ridiculous as it was before. PKT1 could be sped up a bit though... Another thing that's great is Pit regains his ability to up+b if he is interrupted. It doesn't start refreshed though, it will only continue from where it left off. This means that if you've used all of his flight and get struck no up+b. It's great!
 
CountKaiser

CountKaiser

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He took it out, and gave kirbs a few more nerfs, particularly to the throws, fair, and dair.


Orca said:
I'd like for Cape's set to become the standard. In my experience with it thus far it has proven excellently. I also like many of the new mehanics implemented. NADT is great, lower hitstun... Falco's side-b has been nerfed. His jabs have also been nerfed, fixing many complaints right there. Ness has also been nerfed, namely PKT1 and Fair. Fair can only combo with the hitboxes closest to Ness's body, the outer hitboxes push the enemy away. It takes skill to use Fair appropriately, as spacing is very important. It's nowhere near as ridiculous as it was before. PKT1 could be sped up a bit though... Another thing that's great is Pit regains his ability to up+b if he is interrupted. It doesn't start refreshed though, it will only continue from where it left off. This means that if you've used all of his flight and get struck no up+b. It's great!
Click to expand...
Ness's fair is one big hitbox, not several hitboxes, which may explain why the move is so hard to balance. It could be reworked to be 4 or 5 smaller circles instead of one big one, if that were truly desired. So instead of this...


O

It could be this...
OO
OO

Or even this
--O
OOO
--O
 
S

Sterowent

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
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Southgate, MI
...hey, is it possible to leave the hitbox out longer? but, a hitbox Within kirbs, and really weak? it wouldn't be easy to land, and it'd be really nice for linking into grabs or other **** on the ground (right now, i can get a ftilt if i catch someone with the end of it).

this way, it's not likely to be a gimp tool because of its size and not likely to even land usually. it's just another small, mindgamey thing.
 
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