Brawl+ 5.0 RC1 Tactical Discussion Thread

[leafgreen386]

some random **** i thought of after playing for a couple hours:

None of which is valid.

-An upwards wind effect above donkeykong's U tilt/smash. It would be cool

Ok? So? Depending on how this is implemented, it will either do nothing, greatly hurt DK, or insanely buff DK, so... why would we put this in again? DK is obviously already fine as far as balance is concerned, meaning he needs nothing. At the minimum, all it would do is making misses more forgiving, but if it's possible to get hit by both the regular hitbox and a wind hitbox, it could easily result in either 1) screwing up already existing combos, and/or 2) making some really really dumb combos possible due to the wind catching you after you're launched. If you're caught by a windbox after you're launched, you keep your hitstun even though your momentum has stopped, which is one of the major reasons we can't mess with windboxes much; it's very easy to break.

-slowed down laser speed as opposed to increased gravity?? discuss?

You mean you want to give falco a guaranteed grab off of every laser he throws out? No thanks. With slowed down lasers, he could just fire one off at a distance and then run behind it and grab you when it hits either you or your shield. And if he dash cancels the grab, even if you spotdodge it, he'll still be able to start a jab before you can throw out your own attack.

-Outwards wind effect on TL's standing up B (would that even work?)

So... you make it harder to actually connect the hits of his upB, and probably make it easier to punish him for using it. Great idea!

-More Wind effects in general cuz they're mindgamey and cool

I don't disagree, but we can't just slap a wind effect on whatever we feel like. It's very hard to find that middle ground between broken and useless with these things.

-sped up cool down off the falcon kick and 140ish degree knockback so you can double jump out of it into a knee or something

How about not? You should be happy falcon kick got a buff at all, since not all WBR members actually agreed with giving it anything in the first place.

-Pit suckssss

Of course! How could we possibly not buff pit after this extremely compelling argument!?

-Squirtle should be able to cancel out of his side B super fast for coolio approach move

Contrary to popular belief, the WBR actually does make changes for reasons besides "it's cool." Squirtle is already a contender for top tier. You want to give him an invincible approach option now?

-Fox is really **** easy to gimp

Oh no! We must fix this atrocity! Every character needs a recovery on par with vbrawl metaknight! Especially when they're completely **** onstage.

-BattleField should be counter pick cuz of Marth's huge *** combos off the platforms

You realize I could say something similar for every neutral we have right now, right? Platforms are something every character can abuse. Some characters do this better than others, but every character has something they can use for platform techchasing that makes it dangerous to be stuck on a platform above them.

-My commentary is serious business

I'm sure.

 

[5ive]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/im5ive

 

[monkeyx4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9jJuDtMFgw
wow that would be a tight legit lvl it needs to official. do u have a link to it anywhere plz make a vid D:

 

[bob-e]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9jJuDtMFgw
wow that would be a tight legit lvl it needs to official. do u have a link to it anywhere plz make a vid D:

I say that glitch get's left in for everyone's taunt.

Flying off the top of the screen as the match ends in slow motion, with "Show me ya' moves!" would be great.

 

[dori.]

I'd like to see Samus with a slightly stronger nair or bair, either would be nice. And also for the knockback hit of up air to come a little earlier, because as it is, people fall out of it easily.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

um...her nair is already amazing...and her bair is her strongest aerial besides dair O_O


and just follow DI with her uair.

 

[CloneHat]

Her nair is not amazing, it's just easy to hit with, but doesn't KO well.

Bair is very strong, but difficult to hit with.

For uair, you shouldn't be moving up, or it doesn't work as well. That's all I've got to say.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I don't feel that Samus needs buffs, her Zair is really good and she has lots of charge shot set ups. I feel she is at a level where she is not too bad but not too good.

Although if a change came along that really improved her depth/complexity I would still probably support it, as well as a morph ball bomb buff.

 

[Dantarion]

I say that glitch get's left in for everyone's taunt.

Flying off the top of the screen as the match ends in slow motion, with "Show me ya' moves!" would be great.

That wasn't a glitch, that was the platforms respawning and floating into the sky. I was just taunting cuz I was bored while waiting to respawn.

 

[mattk210]

I know this isn't really the place to be asking this, but I couldn't find a better thread and I didn't want to make a new one. Just wondering if the standard tourney ruleset is changed for brawl+. Have the controller port issues been fixed? have methods of stalling been removed? Do we still need to use the edge grab limit like in normal brawl? (I'm new to brawl+)

sorry if this has already been answered

 

[Plum]

I know this isn't really the place to be asking this, but I couldn't find a better thread and I didn't want to make a new one. Just wondering if the standard tourney ruleset is changed for brawl+. Have the controller port issues been fixed? have methods of stalling been removed? Do we still need to use the edge grab limit like in normal brawl? (I'm new to brawl+)

sorry if this has already been answered

Off topic, but I just want to point out how there's ANOTHER Matt*insertnumbersandstuffhere* now.

What is with Matt's and using their names with numbers at the end of it on Smashboards?

 

[MK26]

well first off, welcome to brawl+. You couldn't find a better thread because, well, there isn't a better thread (though you could make a case for the official b+ thread). The standard tourney ruleset has been changed to 4 stock from 3, though 3-stock games are usually played when brawl+ is a side event to melee or brawl. Controller port issues have not been fixed, but there hasn;t been any active discussion on fixing what is unimportant 99.99% of the time. Stalling, however, has been removed with the removal of autosweetspot ledges (ie you can't autosweetspot if your character is moving upward during his up-b or side-b). We haven't had any problems with planking yet, so i doubt that you;d need to use the ledge grab rule.

Also, wow, my StrapEn.pac fix got shafted by the bottom of the page

 

[matt4300]

Off topic, but I just want to point out how there's ANOTHER Matt*insertnumbersandstuffhere* now.

What is with Matt's and using their names with numbers at the end of it on Smashboards?

****!!!! well... I was here first... well second if you consider the mod... "Matt" but yeh all the matts have talked about this alot... wait WTF Matt202394023 something or other above me was here months before me... **** dude Epic lurks.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Yessssssssssss

Anyways he has a "k" after his name.

And I don't actually have any numbers in my name at all, just the word "numbers"

 

[metaXzero]

Why do I remember a time when green Matt had numbers though?

 

[Plum]

Why do I remember a time when green Matt had numbers though?

He did. He just changed it with premium membership to Mattnumbers

 

[Demacrez]

Is it just me or does Lucas have THE most ridiculous aerial to ground combos than anybody else? I swear a lvl 9 used a D-Air, land, F-Air, F-Air, land, turn F-Smash. All connected without a pause.

Or is it that I just suck at DI'ing?

 

[iLink]

Could be the later, I don't think f-air connects with itself with good DI let alone a fsmash.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

you should have been able to escape at the dair. that has a good amount of landing lag D:


EDIT:

hm..yeah..then I think your poor DI / evading skills came in around the fair to forward smash.

 

[iLink]

Well we don't know if the d-air was auto canceled or if it ended before he landed so we can't put the landing lag into the equation.

 

[B3Brawler]

Ok? So? Depending on how this is implemented, it will either do nothing, greatly hurt DK, or insanely buff DK, so... why would we put this in again? DK is obviously already fine as far as balance is concerned, meaning he needs nothing. At the minimum, all it would do is making misses more forgiving, but if it's possible to get hit by both the regular hitbox and a wind hitbox, it could easily result in either 1) screwing up already existing combos, and/or 2) making some really really dumb combos possible due to the wind catching you after you're launched. If you're caught by a windbox after you're launched, you keep your hitstun even though your momentum has stopped, which is one of the major reasons we can't mess with windboxes much; it's very easy to break.

good point

You mean you want to give falco a guaranteed grab off of every laser he throws out? No thanks. With slowed down lasers, he could just fire one off at a distance and then run behind it and grab you when it hits either you or your shield. And if he dash cancels the grab, even if you spotdodge it, he'll still be able to start a jab before you can throw out your own attack.

You could just say you don't understand what i'm saying instead of interpreting it as something totally ridiculous. I didnt mean slow down the projectile (which is currently impossible) but instead the animation generating the article. Then we still have a single laser short hop, same laser speed but less ridiculous gravity

So... you make it harder to actually connect the hits of his upB, and probably make it easier to punish him for using it. Great idea!

Seeing as wind effects are hitboxes that don't have to be tied to his sword, as long as he connects with the first hit then he'll still hit the rest. Maybe a wind effect pulling inwards would make it harder.

How about not? You should be happy falcon kick got a buff at all, since not all WBR members actually agreed with giving it anything in the first place.

The falcon kick buffer is a joke. big startup, ending lag and not as much knockback as a knee. In other words it didnt add anything to his game, this would at least add another combo setup.

Contrary to popular belief, the WBR actually does make changes for reasons besides "it's cool." Squirtle is already a contender for top tier. You want to give him an invincible approach option now?

More poor interpretation of what I said. Right now side B is a pretty useless and easily punishable move. I was thinking something that he could use to approach underneath projectiles but not with an instant interrupt that he could attack out of. Just a sped up exit out of the animation.

I'm sure.

Sarcasm detection...failed

 

[SymphonicSage12]

it's just that all of your suggested changes are uneeded and unnecessary. Why make the pac files bigger if we don't have to?

Falco's lasers are fine as is. Why are so many people complaining about them? @_@

And he's saying the wind hitboxes on toon link's up b would prevent him from even hitting with it, seeing as people would be pushed away from him.

And Squirtle already has fair. Which is a beastly approach option.

 

[GHNeko]

I'm surprised you want to buff another top tier.

If he has troubles approaching, let him have that weakness. God knows he needs some more imo.

 

[-Chad-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3LdpV0170&feature=related

At 0:48, is Ness' d-air weird side hitbox supposed to send you that far and that angle? That's kinda insane =x at 31 at least it is.

 

[leafgreen386]

You could just say you don't understand what i'm saying instead of interpreting it as something totally ridiculous. I didnt mean slow down the projectile (which is currently impossible) but instead the animation generating the article. Then we still have a single laser short hop, same laser speed but less ridiculous gravity

Oh... well in that case... NO! You're wrong. It would not be the same speed, since falco wouldn't be able to unleash multiple lasers as quickly anymore. SHL would be useless without its speed of execution. Furthermore, the gravity tweaks did a lot more for his game than just the SHL, as well. Yes, it made him more susceptible to being combo'd, but these physics also assist his combo game. Perhaps you should try getting used to them and seeing how they actually benefit falco instead of complaing, hm?

Seeing as wind effects are hitboxes that don't have to be tied to his sword, as long as he connects with the first hit then he'll still hit the rest. Maybe a wind effect pulling inwards would make it harder.

...

If they pull inward, it would make it easier to actually land the upB since it'd be pushing them into it. If they pull outward, they could catch a person already in it and pull them out.

._.

The falcon kick buffer is a joke. big startup, ending lag and not as much knockback as a knee. In other words it didnt add anything to his game, this would at least add another combo setup.

K. Give me a reason to care.

More poor interpretation of what I said. Right now side B is a pretty useless and easily punishable move. I was thinking something that he could use to approach underneath projectiles but not with an instant interrupt that he could attack out of. Just a sped up exit out of the animation.

Squirtle. Doesn't. Need. A buff. I don't care if he has one useless move (which isn't even useless since he can recover with it!). He's plenty good as is.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3LdpV0170&feature=related

At 0:48, is Ness' d-air weird side hitbox supposed to send you that far and that angle? That's kinda insane =x at 31 at least it is.

It's because Ness Dair flub has 90 BKB, which I find to be kind of ******** along with the side launch angle.

 

[Shadic]

If they pull inward, it would make it easier to actually land the upB since it'd be pushing them into it. If they pull outward, they could catch a person already in it and pull them out.

Actually, if you made the wind hitboxes not start until past the sword slashes, and push people outward, it'd be kinda cool.

 

[CloneHat]

WHY are we even CONSIDERING doing this?

Let's make it so Ganon's uair has a wind hitbox too! Now THAT'S a needed buff!

 

[Mattnumbers]

Just to clear things up Ness's Dair flub hitbox has not been modified at all and is the same as in VBrawl. I'm just saying this before some guy starts talking about Ness+ mains and whatnot.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

WHY would we even CONSIDER doing this!?

Let's make it so Ganon's uair has a wind hitbox too! Now THAT'S a needed buff!

psssssh if would be totally cooler if Jigglypuff's Rest pulled you in and made you stunned at the same time, and THEN hit you with the hitbox.

 

[Shadic]

Just to clear things up Ness's Dair flub hitbox has not been modified at all and is the same as in VBrawl. I'm just saying this before some guy starts talking about Ness+ mains and whatnot.

Ness mains suck! Rabble rabble Fair!

Actually, if there was a Ness buff I'd want, it'd be to his FSmash. For some reason I have this unshakable desire for that move to not suck. I think seeing Lucas' only makes it worse.

 

[GHNeko]

Hey. Wind hitbox shtick belongs to Ness+.

Dont steal their meme.

 

[bleyva]

WHY are we even CONSIDERING doing this?

Let's make it so Ganon's uair has a wind hitbox too! Now THAT'S a needed buff!

that would awesome.

also, it would be funny as hell if the wario waft had a wind hitbox........since he's, ya know, farting and stuff..........

HAHAHAH

EDIT: give EVERY character windboxes, they rule

 

[SymphonicSage12]

...it would be cooler if the initial waft explosion sent people upwards so they could get hit by his head as he's rising, too.


@ thesage: You can't forget the wind also belongs to Sheik :|

 

[thesage]

Windbox also belongs to Ganondorf.

Also Link.

Ironically not toon link....

 

[ThatGuy]

No more buffs to Wario, please. T_T

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Dude, calm down, we're just joking. >.>


EDIT: Oh **** I just got trolled, didn't I?

 

[Shadic]

Dude, calm down, we're just joking. >.>

Ironic considering that you're the one who misses jokes and takes things too seriously most of the time.

Anyways, screw canon. Give Toon Link a Galerang and take it off Link, leaving him with a normal one ala Melee. WIN.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I will not be happy until the startup lag and endlag on wiztruck are sped up 500x and you can IASA it one frame after the hitbox comes out. Also, it needs a wind hitbox the drags people in with in. It also needs the power of a Dedede fully charged forward smash.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Just to clear things up Ness's Dair flub hitbox has not been modified at all and is the same as in VBrawl. I'm just saying this before some guy starts talking about Ness+ mains and whatnot.

It's still silly given the effectiveness of the normal spike itself, which was sped up.