Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[Xyless]

It's intentional. Though I think it might've been a glitch at first, I'm not sure.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i have been playing Link and i think he is great. There is only one thing i would like added to him atm. I think you should be able to cancel charging an arrow with shield, more then once i have charged an arrow and then a person has just held out a reflector which then became a stalemate. Adding a shield cancel to the arrow charge will get rid of this problem and wont be any unreasonable buff/change ether. The one other thing i might want changed is if links boomerang gets reflected it drags link of the stage and often kills him, i would like for it to not drag link as far but if thats not possible without taking away the greatness of the boomerang then forget i mentioned it.

even through i am asking for change i want u guys to know that i am really happy with this link and for the first time in a smash game Link is what he should be.

 

[Xyless]

We considered changing the boomerang, but I believe if we did change it, then the boomerang will lose some of its potential. The reasoning we've had for reflectors killing him with his boomerang is that you should be very careful with the boomerang when fighting them, and possibly not use it.

Also, you CAN catch it if it's reflected at you. You have to airdodge at it.

 

[Darkji]

I agree with N.A.G.A.C.E, the arrows should be cancelable. But I think the boomerang should be unchanged.

 

[Xyless]

I'll see. If we did that, I have a feeling we'd have to reduce knockback slightly on fully charged arrows to balance it out a little, since he's safer to charge.

 

[Pierce7d]

Arrows should not be jump cancelable, wtf.

If someone puts on a reflector, they have the option to drop the reflector, and you have the option to release the arrow. There's a timer on the match.

Your move.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

First off like i said if making it so the boomerang does not kill u when reflected means u weaken the boomerang then dont do it. i can deal with it killing me when reflected, i dont want to lose something so good.

Now for the arrows i didnt say jump cancel i said shield cancel-able. Link should be able to do this since the arrows are so strong that a reflected one is to dangerous to link and b/c of this will cause a stally slowed down part of the match, plus this means the whole time the person with the reflector has the upper hand since at least for the spaces they can jump cancel their reflectors. I dont think shield cancel arrows would be to good anyway its really imo a small buff to stop stupid situations from popping up. Also just want to add in real life if u dont want to shoot an arrow and u happened to of already pulled back the string u can slowly let the string go so link should be able to cancel b/c it makes sense. (bringing real world into smash)

(i guess i would not be against a slight weakening of fully charged arrows for a way to cancel them)

I also want to talk about peach. I think she needs some pretty big changes and idk if u talked about her yet. One thing i would like to see changed is her throwing arm, its stupid how short she throws the turnips. i am not asking for links arm but a normal distance would be fine. She still does not have a good double jump which i think still hurts her and stops some combos early. My last idea i have right now is to make her peach bomber go a greater distance/faster i often try to use this to get the jump on my opponent and hit them with an aerial but they often have time to react to it and hit me first, sometimes i try to use it to approach this also does not work. These are just some of the buffs i feel she needs but i am no peach expert so i might be missing something here.

 

[TL?]

I've played link a lot too. If your boomerang gets reflected and you get caught in it, you can hold down to get out and up b back to the stage. I don't think the boomerang needs to be changed at all. Because the thing is, you shouldn't be throwing boomerangs out at an opponent whos in a good position to reflect it. So even if it did kill you and there was no way out, I still wouldn't want it changed.

I'm not sure about canceling arrows either, because a fully charged arrow is extremely strong. The longer you charge, the higher your risk and reward go up as well. Once again, you shouldn't be fully charging arrows on an opponent thats in a position to punish you for it. I might be alright with only allowing sheild cancel on a full charge.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

like i said i am ok with not changing the boomerang.

Now the arrows think of it like this. U are fighting a fox u are charging your arrow u are winning by%. Now the fox can jump cancel and ether use the jump cancel to approach or he can mind game and shine right away again, this puts in a situation were he has the advantage. Now same situation but this time link is losing u have no options and the fox can hold his reflector for ever so link is going to take a lot of dmg or maybe die.

Now shield cancel arrows does not even give link some advantage attack wise it will just put back into neutral position which seems fair to me

 

[Pierce7d]

ROFL

I would HUGELY NERF arrows if you were able to cancel them with shield

A) Shield Cancelable > Jump Cancelable, because you can jump from shield, so this is essentially even better. Only costs 1 frame more to jump.

B) The person with the reflector is only at advantage after you charge the attack. You shouldn't be charging up arrows against people with Reflectors in the first place.

Peach Bomber should be interrupt-able at any time, not just after launch. Then it would be awesome.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ROFL

I would HUGELY NERF arrows if you were able to cancel them with shield

A) Shield Cancelable > Jump Cancelable, because you can jump from shield, so this is essentially even better. Only costs 1 frame more to jump.

B) The person with the reflector is only at advantage after you charge the attack. You shouldn't be charging up arrows against people with Reflectors in the first place.

Peach Bomber should be interrupt-able at any time, not just after launch. Then it would be awesome.

u act like link will be able to fly at the opponent and hit them right after the cancel, jump cancel shield cancel ether one is fine and with links speed u wont have to nerf the arrows much at all. So if link could shield or jump cancel his arrows tell me how he will then travel half the stage or even quarter of the stage and hit the opponent before he can react? Or are u just saying it will be able to mindgame so well it needs a nerf. I Want to know your reason why this is to good for Link b/c saying u shouldn't be doing something is not really much of a reason at all

edit: i want to point out that in both brawl- and vbrawl there are plenty of things which u can shield cancel and even hold onto the charge which are better then just not hurting yourself with an arrow were u wont even keep the charge from canceling it. Combine that with the fact link wont have any kind of advantage after the cancel unless the opponent is standing right next to u (which in that case u should not of been using an arrow anyway) and there is no problem in giving this small buff to link

 

[Inferno3044]

Link's arrows are fine. Why would they need a buff?

 

[Pierce7d]

Link's arrows are fine. Why would they need a buff?

Pretty much this. Link is a solid character already.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

its not like its a big buff it honestly just adds something that makes sense.

As for link being a solid character already i agree 100% i think if i was going to choose the best made character for brawl- atm i would choose link thats why the only thing i feel he needs at all is the ability to cancel his arrow then he would be perfect

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ugh, it's painful to use Bowser. He's so bad.

Also, whatever happened to that talk of the projectile warlock punch?

 

[Inferno3044]

Ugh, it's painful to use Bowser. He's so bad.

This. He really got an undeserved nerf. Please change him back to 1.0 or even make him a tad better. A lot of moves in this game do 10%. 15% really helps him from being juggled which I'm assuming was the point of the tumble armor.

 

[Swordplay]

I'll say 2 things. I love using Link. I infact believe Link is the Best Doubles and FFA character in B- BY A LONG SHOT. SO much range and power. It's like he was designed for doubles from the beginning. So I'm satisfied from that point. Maybe hes not as great in singles but I still love him.

And OMG tried wolf today. DAM HIS RECOVERY IS SO GOOD
Flash>uair>flash>uair OMG you get so much air time.

 

[MonkUnit]

Wolf's stalling has been fixed in the BR build. Bowser is also receiving buffs, so don't worry. And Supreme_Dirt, we tried putting a scope shot on warlock punch, it didn't work out that well. We'll see about adding a projectile though, I doubt a projectile will work out with ganon though.

 

[Pierce7d]

Ugh, the only thing Ganon needs is to be able to Jump from SideB, so he doesn't get ***** by spotdodge on reaction.

 

[Vro]

Bowser is fine, imo.

Any thoughts about a tier list or best character? I think Ganon and Ivysaur are very good. Snake and Meta might still be near the top. Rob is very good too

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I'll say 2 things. I love using Link. I infact believe Link is the Best Doubles and FFA character in B- BY A LONG SHOT. SO much range and power. It's like he was designed for doubles from the beginning. So I'm satisfied from that point. Maybe hes not as great in singles but I still love him.

And OMG tried wolf today. DAM HIS RECOVERY IS SO GOOD
Flash>uair>flash>uair OMG you get so much air time.

I find link to be good in singles as well. His shield pressure and power and decent combos, and of course projectiles make him a very good character.

Yea so bowers sucks which lead me to a question for the BR people. I read that u guys are overhauling a couple of characters such as sonic, bowser, wario. How different will they be and in what way and who if anyone else is getting a large change?

edit:

Bowser is fine, imo.

Any thoughts about a tier list or best character? I think Ganon and Ivysaur are very good. Snake and Meta might still be near the top. Rob is very good too

bowser is far from fine, ganon gets camped pretty hard and needs some small buffs, ivy is ok but still far from best more of a mid tier if u ask me, snake is not that great. Meta seems like he might still be very good and rob is also very good. IMO sheik is the best in the game but the common thought atm is that pika is number 1

 

[Pierce7d]

Pikachu is the best character, no questions.

 

[TL?]

In v1.6, it seems to me that the best characters are: pikachu, sheik, wolf, mk. Tier lists and whos good have been discussed a ton over on smashmods.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Luigi and luigi and luigi also.

 

[BSL]

Luigi and luigi and luigi also.

and i support it 100%

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

right now if i was to make a top tier it would be in no particular order: Sheik, pika, luigi, MK, and maybe jiggs

My friends seem to think jiggs is great b/c he can combo to rest pretty easily but i am jut not sure about him. So others opinions?

 

[Xyless]

New video up on the Official Brawl Minus Youtube channel!

Showcasing the potential Diddy Kong change to remove the glitchy barrel trap and include a twist to his old rocket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YQDHDHY4xE

 

[bleyva]

diddys new upB's lookin good.

so is there a rough timeframe for when we could expect a new build?

 

[Xyless]

It might possibly be released before the end of the year. We're trying to hold off on putting out small releases like we did with 1.6 and have stronger releases instead.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Well, 1.6 was pretty necessary. Peach and DK were pretty much the worst characters by an even larger margin than Bowser is now. At least they're semi-viable with 1.6 now.

 

[Xyless]

1.6 was necessary for DK, but Peach wasn't playtested enough, and we've got some great additions for her in the next update.

What I mostly meant was, we didn't take our time, so a few of the changes (like Peach's) feel forced. Now that we've put more time into things, there have been a lot better developments for many of the characters.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Alrighty, that's great. I was mostly repeating what some people have told me about Peach. Ness's FAir nerf was also absolutely necessary, though. I don't think anyone can argue that, really.

Which reminds me, did anything ever come of the aerial vB for DK?

 

[MonkUnit]

Currently we have the aerial downB set to be an aerial dtaunt(the "wtf am I doing?" taunt). Xyless was working on making it do a clap from his FS, but I don't know how far along he is or if that will actually be used.

 

[Xyless]

It somewhat works, but freezes at times, which could relate to how we're forcing the inputs. I'm really unsure.

 

[Mera Mera]

Wow... Diddy's up B cancel looks awesome. Also, I like the new direction Sonic- is going in. On a side note, I didn't see him grab with his over B so I don't know if it was already changed, but if the grab hit / threw the person behind Diddy or maybe under him, that would be cool. Though maybe too OP? I don't know. If it's too good you could lower the range at which he grabs with it (assuming that's possible). Just a suggestion. I like what I saw of diddy regardless.

 

[MonkUnit]

IIRC if you latch onto someone with diddy, if you hit down on the toggle stick, diddy will throw them down. I believe this was also in vBrawl.

 

[Mera Mera]

Oh... well, now I feel stupid... I guess in my defense I only really played Diddy in vBrawl and I didn't play brawl much until the code sets came out so I didn't really play the game that much then... I maybe even knew that then but I don't recall... Anyways, being able to throw backwards with it could still be cool. Dunno.

Also, random question... but in Brawl- I've found it a LOT easier to foot stool... is this just that I got better at it or did you guys actually make it easier in some way? Also, some of my friends seem convinced that you made it easier to turn around... (like using a neuteral B and turning around for example)... is that true and/or do you have any idea what was changed that might make it seem that way?

 

[MonkUnit]

Footstooling and B-reversals were not made any easier in minus. You guys must have just gotten the timing down to muscle memory. :V

 

[Mera Mera]

K. I figured as much. Just thought I'd ask... Thank you.

 

[Pierce7d]

Also, your opponent is in hitstun for longer, and characters move faster, so there will be more times when an opponent is open to footstool, and there will be more accidental footstools.