Q&A Bowser's Inside Story - Q&A

[Gamegenie222]

Yo I wanna learn Bowser as a serious character cause he compliments my hard punishment and read based playstyle and I enjoy him alot lately cause all of his buffs going into smash 4 as I'm normally a Falco player along with Robin and Marcina. So what are his fastest buttons, best punishes and what to do against people up in your face constantly along with heavy zoning characters like Villager and DHD?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Gamegenie222 Sup and glad to hear you're seriously considering Bowser.

If you're looking to practice the options that offer the least commitment from Bowser, I'd like to point you to:

- Jab 1 to hit confirm
- Dash Stop
- Pivot Grab
- Pivot Ftilt
- Short Hop Auto Canceled Fair (SHAC Fair)
- Short Hop Auto Canceled Bair (SHAC Bair)
- Aerial Klaw landing cancel
​

If you're looking for Bowser's quickest options on the ground or air:

- Jab 1 starts on frame 7
- Fortress starts on frame 6
- Nair starts on frame 8, but the real big hit box appears on frame 14
- Bair and Uair on frame 9.
​

Your best punish options depend on your positioning and MU. You should reference the MU thread. Generally speaking, you will be utilizing pivot grabs, dash grabs, Bowser Bomb, Fortress OoS, or running USmash for punishes.

For information on how to combat projectile heavy MUs, please check the MU thread, as this is an area that's always under development, especially against characters like Villager and DHD. Generally speaking, you want to avoid dashing, as that will leave you unable to shield during the dash frames. You want to walk -> shield unless you see an opening to dash in. The goal should always be to exert stage control with your mere presence and wait for an opponent to initiate a maneuver or attack to reset your positions first. When they do, you react and punish them for it, generally speaking.

 

[Gamegenie222]

@ Gamegenie222 Sup and glad to hear you're seriously considering Bowser.

If you're looking to practice the options that offer the least commitment from Bowser, I'd like to point you to:

- Jab 1 to hit confirm
- Dash Stop
- Pivot Grab
- Pivot Ftilt
- Short Hop Auto Canceled Fair (SHAC Fair)
- Short Hop Auto Canceled Bair (SHAC Bair)
- Aerial Klaw landing cancel
​

If you're looking for Bowser's quickest options on the ground or air:

- Jab 1 starts on frame 7
- Fortress starts on frame 6
- Nair starts on frame 8, but the real big hit box appears on frame 14
- Bair and Uair on frame 9.
​

Your best punish options depend on your positioning and MU. You should reference the MU thread. Generally speaking, you will be utilizing pivot grabs, dash grabs, Bowser Bomb, Fortress OoS, or running USmash for punishes.

For information on how to combat projectile heavy MUs, please check the MU thread, as this is an area that's always under development, especially against characters like Villager and DHD. Generally speaking, you want to avoid dashing, as that will leave you unable to shield during the dash frames. You want to walk -> shield unless you see an opening to dash in. The goal should always be to exert stage control with your mere presence and wait for an opponent to initiate a maneuver or attack to reset your positions first. When they do, you react and punish them for it, generally speaking.

Thanks for the info and I didn't know his bair and fair had AC windows. Also When you talking about Bowser's jab 1 into hit confirm I assume his jab 1 by itself is safe to safeish on shield and you get the hit you go into the 2nd hit and does Bowser have other attacks he can hit off of jab 1? And how do you perform the aerial klaw landing cancel?

 

[Corgian]

Thanks for the info and I didn't know his bair and fair had AC windows. Also When you talking about Bowser's jab 1 into hit confirm I assume his jab 1 by itself is safe to safeish on shield and you get the hit you go into the 2nd hit and does Bowser have other attacks he can hit off of jab 1? And how do you perform the aerial klaw landing cancel?

The jab frame traps, meaning your recovery on the jab is shorter than the time it takes for them to recover from hitstun. As such you can follow up a ton of things out of jab 1, such as d-tilt, dash grab, and bowser bomb.

No matter what height you use the klaw from, it auto-cancels. It's as easy as it sounds. You side-b in the air, and get immediate actions on landing. However, if you do the side-b to early the grab box will wiff; if you do it too late, the grab box won't come out.

 

[Gamegenie222]

The jab frame traps, meaning your recovery on the jab is shorter than the time it takes for them to recover from hitstun. As such you can follow up a ton of things out of jab 1, such as d-tilt, dash grab, and bowser bomb.

No matter what height you use the klaw from, it auto-cancels. It's as easy as it sounds. You side-b in the air, and get immediate actions on landing. However, if you do the side-b to early the grab box will wiff; if you do it too late, the grab box won't come out.

Hmm thanks for the info and I never knew that about Bowser. Also What uses do you use his flame for edgeuarding along with when do you use f smash?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Gamegenie222 Flame is a safer method of tacking on damage at the ledge against characters with a linear recovery. It's possible to convert it to a kill option, but that largely depends on the opponent. Fsmash should only be used for the hardest of reads. You can attempt to use it for an edge guard or as a mix-up to your jab 1 hit confirm, but it's generally too slow to beat out our other options.

 

[Gamegenie222]

@ Gamegenie222 Flame is a safer method of tacking on damage at the ledge against characters with a linear recovery. It's possible to convert it to a kill option, but that largely depends on the opponent. Fsmash should only be used for the hardest of reads. You can attempt to use it for an edge guard or as a mix-up to your jab 1 hit confirm, but it's generally too slow to beat out our other options.

Ok 1 final question for you nerds. How fast is Down B OOS to punish stuff and how reliable is it also how is his throws and can he get anything outta it?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Gamegenie222 In a standard situation, Bowser Bomb OoS will be 7 frame drop lag + 11 frames for Down B, total of 18 frames if nothing hits your shield. If something hits your shield, you'll suffer the shield stun and cancel the 7 frame drop lag, making it closer to 12 frames. This is enough to punish most character's jab finisher.

Bowser's throws are still his main method of forcing an opponent out of the neutral. Here are some notes to remember:

- Bowser's throws have few, if any, follow-up options unless there are platforms. Generally, you can position yourself to follow-up an opponent's landing option.
- An opponent at high percent can be dealt as much damage from pummel x2 + Bthrow/Fthrow as they would from Klaw, and can KO opponents at the edge of FD at 130+%, rage notwithstanding.
- Grab release shenanigans are gone. However, it's possible to catch people with a surprise Dtilt should a grab release happen. Generally, avoid letting your opponent break out of the grab.​

 

[Gamegenie222]

OK thanks for all of the info then folks. I'll be in the Bowser neck of the woods more then when I'm not in the Project M boards or Falco, Marth or Robin boards.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Does anybody here make use of Bowser's crouch walk? I want to apply it to my game simply because it's there, but it's hard. Bowser's walk and crouch walk are abysmally slow, hence why we run to close distance whenever it's safe. When Bowser hunkers down, he pretty much converts his tall height into more width, and it's not like he's low enough to the ground to crouch under ground moves or projectiles. I love Dtilt, it trips at low percents, it launches enemies into an edgeguard situation at higher percents, but the crouch walk doesn't seem like it will lead into that move very easily. The only boon to crouch walking I feel is the ability to stop and gain access to crouching tough guy. I tested all the custom moves, and while there are some great things you can armor from ZSS and Wario, there's no guarantee you'll be fighting them as they pack those moves.

I guess the only great thing about Bowser's crouch walk is the momentum preservation portion of the waveslash tech.

 

[Jerodak]

Actually, Bowser can low-profile a reasonable number of aerial attacks from characters who have hitboxes that come out relatively high. ZZS for instance, has a very high short hop, so even bowser can low-profile her aerials unless she's using them on the way down. If villager is spaming short-hop slingshots, you can gain grouns by crawling under those, an it can force them to stay honest. Ganondorf's Back air comes out really high and can be crouched under, from the right range, Marth and Lucina Fair can be ducked under. In some cases you don't even need to crouch, I'm pretty sure some aerials can be low-profiled just by running since that makes him a little shorter, I think Samus and ZSS's Zairs fall into that category, but the number of attacks which come out that high aren't very common. Bowser's crouch and crawl can see practical use, but you can also low-profile with other animations like fortress, down smash, and up smash.

If we want to get less practical and more theoretical, then we could also talk about the animations on jump and down b, but those would take absolute precision timing to use, and I'm pretty sure they aren't as low as any of the other animations, in the case of down b especially, which is more of a wind-back than him getting lower. But the jump squat does make bowser pretty low momentarily and it can also duck under Marth's short hop Fair at the right spacing, but unlike a crouch where you can get low and wait, you'd have to press jump right as the hitbox was coming out. However, you would be in the air right after the hitbox was over and could whiff punish with an aerial. In the case of Bowser bomb, you'd be using it more for horizontal spacing, so it'd probably be better against moves on the ground similar to the wind-back on an Ftilt or Brawl/Melee Fsmash. The advantage that these animations would have is that they get low or wind back very quickly, but the downside is that they are so momentary so you'd need to be precise and it wouldn't as well against lingering attacks. Also, I guess in the case of Bowser bomb you'd also be risking hitting with the further part of the first hit where the second might whiff, but since that requires the target to be moving right as they are getting hit, it's probably fine.

 

[anaglyphix]

So I've been messing around with Bowser and I noticed that sometimes his dair will hover in the air for a bit instead of fastfalling. Has anyone figured out a way to get this effect guaranteed?

 

[Zigsta]

So I've been messing around with Bowser and I noticed that sometimes his dair will hover in the air for a bit instead of fastfalling. Has anyone figured out a way to get this effect guaranteed?

This will happen if you dair immediately after being hit. Think of it like Toon Link's dair in Brawl.

 

[Corgian]

So I've been messing around with Bowser and I noticed that sometimes his dair will hover in the air for a bit instead of fastfalling. Has anyone figured out a way to get this effect guaranteed?

To add to what Zigsta said, any dair that causes the user to accelerate will do this as well. Zamus, Sonic, are some other examples.

 

[Fluttershyallie]

What tips and trick do you know to help with spacers also what secondaries would be best for them?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Fluttershyallie Generally, you want to pressure them with fire if they're respecting you a lot. Pivots (pivot grab or pivot tilt) can be extremely useful if they go ham on you as an alternative to just using Jab 1 to hit confirm.

Good secondaries include:
The gap isn't so big that you can't win with characters you like, at least not this early in the game's meta.

 

[Alphatron]

What's the timing on ledge cancelling Bowser's Side B animation and what is it useful for?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

What's the timing on ledge cancelling Bowser's Side B animation and what is it useful for?

Do you mean running to a ledge and using Side B to go into a neutral fall similar to Samus and Ness' side B? You just have to input Side B within a few frames of the ledge as you run to it. As for what it's useful for, not much. I guess it's an easier means of ledgetrumping at the cost of a few frames. The other two characters get a lot more out of this tech due to their aerials being relatively safe to land. So they could fall of a platform on battlefield and double jump back up to Fair somebody. Bowser is too big of a target to shark aerials under those platforms.

 

[Big Sean]

I think you can also do a psuedo run-off bair, similar to how we usually run off fair. At the cost of a few frames, you can get a kill at like 40%.

 

[Jerodak]

You can use it offstage for run-off fair mix-ups in the drop zone when edge-guarding, this is useful because you don't have to spend extra frames turning around and jumping, so it it's a bit faster and gives the opponent less time to react. Also, it can set up for off-stage ledge-trump mix-ups as well since facing the ledge will allow you to snap faster, of course this also just makes recovering easier in general after going for your edgeguard. It's not something you'll be using all the time, but it's a nice thing to keep in your pocket for the occasional mix-up.

 

[Disaster Master]

Okay I really, really like Bowser but playing Getting Juggled: The Game is started to frustrate me. How do you get back down to the stage after being tossed up?

 

[Jerodak]

Okay I really, really like Bowser but playing Getting Juggled: The Game is started to frustrate me. How do you get back down to the stage after being tossed up?

The most important thing you can do is probably paying close attention to the opponent, any action you're taking should be based on what they are doing. Look for situations where it's appropriate to use the options you have, there will be times to be aggressive and times to be defensive. Someone trying to dash grab or dash attack, for instance will probably be vulnerable to a Dair where if someone is just standing around and waiting then you might want to try something safer like fast-falling into spot dodges, or if they are shielding you can try footstools or side b.

There are times when hard reads from the air can pay off in a bit way, there are times where I've been able to catch rolls from way up in the air with down b because I knew where my opponent would roll, or when getting a shield break because I knew my opponent would try to shield grab or was expecting a dair. This is very satisfying when it works, but it's generally better to prioritize a safe landing over trying to deal damage; you want to make it to the ground while doing as little as possible.

Saving your double jump is important too, since it gives you a mix-up and lets you change directions in the air more quickly than just drifting. Also, if you happen to get hit offstage, it'd be good to have your jump to recover with, your second jump is precious, don't waste it.

A lot of the same philosophy here applies to safely getting off the ledge, I think learning to get up form the ledge properly can also teach you the basics of landing and vise versa since the core concept is generally the same, and both areas of the game are equally important.

 

[Oblivion129]

I was wondering if most Bowser mains use Tap Jump in order to UpB out of shield. I have a few characters that use the Tap Jump tag and others that don't.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I was wondering if most Bowser mains use Tap Jump in order to UpB out of shield. I have a few characters that use the Tap Jump tag and others that don't.

I don't see why not. I haven't played Melee competitively in years, so it's been awhile since I've had to deal with Tap jump. I personally believe that Bowser's Utilt is not used very often because of how amazingly long it takes for him to act out of it. The move opens you up to a punish whether you whiff or strike a shield on the platform above you, and you can usually Usmash or Fair anything above you that might come within Utilt range for a greater reward on damage. So because utilts are not integral to Bowser's game, you won't have to worry about Utilts turning into Uairs.

If tap jump lets you perform OoS fortress substantially faster then that's great. FYI, Bowser's got the longest jumpsquat in the game, giving him the largest (easiest) timeframe to perform UpB before leaving the ground. If you're well adjusted to tap jump then I say go ahead.

 

[MrEh]

I use tap jump, but there's nothing stopping you from setting L or R to jump and doing it manually.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I use default for my controls. Have been since the brawl days.

 

[Corgian]

Controls are all about comfort and ease of access. If your control setup helps you perform better, then that's the control setup you should use.

Personally, my setup is

R is Jump
X is Grab
C-stick is Tilts
And tap jump is off.

I have R set to jump for my up-b OoS, X is grab is because it makes using R for Jump-cancelled grabs easier (I also play Fox so its more important for him, but it also allows me to reliably pivot grab with the Bows), C-stick is tilts because tilts are way more important to my game then Smash Attacks, and tap jump is off because I'm super twitchy and need to avoid wasting my jumps.

 

[Hitman JT]

I leave tap jump off and slide my thumb from jump to special to do my OoS fortress. It's easy on a CCPro or Wii U Pro.

 

[Cassius.]

I play with tap jump off and just plink Y and B together to upB OoS lol

My R button is set to jump but I literally never use it. If I want to jump or do a move oos i just use x or y

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Lol, Totally forgot my choice of controller doesn't have to deal with Specials and jumps being performed with the same finger. Now I see why people think UpB OoS may be difficult to perform this way. But I play with a light gun. I'm too busy being a freakin' wizard to worry about uncomfortable inputs.

...I do miss having a proper C-stick though.

 

[vegeta18]

what are some of bowsers best match ups? some of his worst? Or just in general, what kind of characters give bowser a hard time and which kind of characters does he excel against?

 

[Zigsta]

what are some of bowsers best match ups? some of his worst? Or just in general, what kind of characters give bowser a hard time and which kind of characters does he excel against?

Offhand his best are GW, Olimar, and Samus. His worst are Sheik, Yoshi, and Fox.

 

[Big Sean]

oh man samus as best matchup? I played one really crazy samus that could get what seemed like gauranteed 0-60% combos on me, not to mention the crazy spacing game. Also custom Olimar is one of my harder matchups, though I agree that default Olimar is hilariously easy. I would say the best matchups for me are G&W, jiggs and Marth. I also haven't been having too many problems with yoshis, at least once I use dash slash. I would however add ZSS or even metaknight to Ziggs list. I played Ito, who is probably the best meta knight in the world right now, and every string included like a 40-50% combo. It was embarrasing.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Captain Falcon players tend to list Bowser as their best MU, and he is a pain to deal with. He's not our worst MU (shiek) but he's up there. I also put Link and Pikachu on the list of problem MUs for Bowser. Bowser's slow jump squat and air speed makes getting in on pikachu a pain. And Link can wall us out better than you might think when we're forced to stick to the ground on our approach. Dash Slash should improve our options on both of them, but a customs meta gives them some scary tools as well.

As for who we do well against. I'm thinking Peach, Rosalina, Zelda, and Kirby. Any lightweight should fear Bowser's early KO percents. Plus they have to work really hard to kill us. And their floatiness is only a pro against characters that rely on combos. Bowser does not. We also have a good matchup on Bowser jr. That recovery of his is highly exploitable with fire breath.

 

[Zigsta]

oh man samus as best matchup? I played one really crazy samus that could get what seemed like gauranteed 0-60% combos on me, not to mention the crazy spacing game. Also custom Olimar is one of my harder matchups, though I agree that default Olimar is hilariously easy. I would say the best matchups for me are G&W, jiggs and Marth. I also haven't been having too many problems with yoshis, at least once I use dash slash. I would however add ZSS or even metaknight to Ziggs list. I played Ito, who is probably the best meta knight in the world right now, and every string included like a 40-50% combo. It was embarrasing.

MK gets strings early on. He forces Bowser to play very patient. Just remember that a good MK respects you too, as Bowser kills MK really early.

 

[Cassius.]

played against Pikachu this past weekend. It's not that bad, nowhere near any of Bowser's absolute worst MUs. yet.

I don't understand why people have issues fighting against Link. I have been playing against Links for years though. Nothing seems fundamentally different in this game. You guys just need to step your neutral game up haha. Just walk! I'm not joking.

(meteor bomb kind of blows though, but I don't like customs anyway)

Playing against Sheik and (a good) Fox sucks. A lot. Yoshi is probably bad too, but I haven't played any and I don't want to since I actually despise Yoshi.

I played against an Olimar too that past weekend and it was waaaaaaay easier but still kind of awkward. Chris is way better at that match up than I am and has been for years, so I'll take his word for it. Samus has never been an issue, idk about G&W but all his moves that gave us problems before are meh now. We need to get the MD/VA Bowsers to talk about that since GIMR is kind of a player in this game now.

I really find the Shulk match up to be one of his easiest. In that MU you would really only lose to a player that's just better at Smash fundamentals than you are.

A lot of the match ups where the neutral seems to be/is controlled by a projectile and not necessarily a specific set of normals/frame data differences are MUs where the ground game is absolutely important (Smash 4 is a game where jumping is actually not that good, so you guys need to start focusing on exerting positional pressure via your ground game! Bowser is scary, abuse that. get in your opponent's head.) Anyway, parenthetical statement aside, perfect shielding and exerting pressure in neutral by being in a proximal zone is important in those MUs. for Link specifically, because his jab is actually amazing, you will have to stand outside of that range, etc. I can write pages about it. I still regret that Link was my most practiced MU for like 6 years. For Pikachu who obviously doesn't carry a sword, you can afford to play a bit closer.

Smash 4 meta is still underdeveloped to the point where players aren't sure on how to secure kills offstage, so we don't have to worry about smart recovery options just yet. But I do fear that the Pikachu MU will become a lot more difficult in a year or so if he starts to become a common pick.

But for now I absolutely think Sheik and Fox blow. Larry sucks. Playing against him sucks. And any Sheik player with half a brain is automatically a threat to Bowser.

I also hate the Luigi MU but there are ways to come out on top in that MU. And that was accentuated by me playing J.Miller for 6 hours (worst case scenario, you run into the best Luigi in the world--what are the odds), on top of the fact that Luigis going to become reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally common in the near future, so I don't want to talk about that. Entry level Luigis are cake food, obviously.

so yeah, Shulk and Ganondorf (pivot grab!) are probably the easiest, if not lightweights with no presence in neutral lol

zss is also pretty bad, but it's a kind of awkward mu, marth is weird because he's still wack in this game but if we're on the ledge against him it's still a hassle to get back onstage. A competent Marth will keep you there for as long as possible

in this game, bowser to me is all about positioning. for a character that has no grab benefits, and no combos and hits to kill every single time, you have to be in the right spot. that's it. there are MUs where you can hit someone once and never know if you'll get a hit again (hi sheik). if you can't figure out optimal zones to exert pressure against your opponent, first analyze the very limited amount of options this game presents to your opponent. and then analyze the tools the character has and the methodological decisions your opponent decides to choose in certain situations. a lot of players have really telling habits that can be discovered and exploited as early as the character select screen (offline tournaments) or within the first 10 seconds of a game. I do think every MU in this game so far is winnable (like 35:65 seems very winnable in this game due to rage, etc. In Brawl that meant the MU was actual **** and would require a character change probably) but that's only because it's still within the first year of the game, Bowser is better, and only a handful of smash 4 players are actually REALLY DAMN GOOD at this game. Some of the MUs really suck--I have sighed out loud while playing this game hundreds of times, everyone knows my disdain--but you/we can do it.

#endpsychologystudentrant

 

[Zigsta]

Larry actually plays Fox, Sheik, AND Luigi now. Meaning I get to practice all the bad MUs as usual!

Fox is weird, man. I take massive, steaming dumps on ANY Fox not named Larry. I don't think it's the same degree as Sheik or Yoshi, but playing Larry shows just how bad the MU is. I think in about a year or so more Fox mains will catch up to where he is now, and then Bowsers are gonna be in for a rude awakening.

Thankfully two of Fox's shenanigans don't actually work on us--his multiple jabs>upsmash and shieldbreaker up B (most people don't know, but if Fox up B's right next to you and you shield, it'll break your shield---Bowser is so large that he gets shieldpoked instead). His custom up B also makes the MU even more difficult, as it kills Bowser at a mere 70%.

 

[Hitman JT]

idk about G&W but all his moves that gave us problems before are meh now. We need to get the MD/VA Bowsers to talk about that since GIMR is kind of a player in this game now.

AFAIK only @Ash23 has played GIMR. I have like no G&W experience outside of the gloryhole.
After fighting Boss I don't really think the Luigi MU is THAT bad. Sure, one grab leads to 40% or higher, but being able to tough guy through the fireballs is a huge advantage for Big B's neutral.

Fox though...screw that guy.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

After fighting Boss I don't really think the Luigi MU is THAT bad. Sure, one grab leads to 40% or higher, but being able to tough guy through the fireballs is a huge advantage for Big B's neutral.

This MU was always interesting to me. After just one good combo or two, our tough guy stops working on Luigi's fireballs (55% damage at close range), but before then, you can run through the attack and punish with Side B for a solid 18 damage that will blow through his reactionary shield. Or even a running Bowser Bomb if we're feeling daring. We've got some other things going for us against Luigi as well. His cyclone recovery can only be attempted once per airtime, and his air speed and side B afford him very little distance after being struck by a Fair offstage. Furthermore, his running, air, and falling speeds are all terrible for approaching Bowser. We could practically respond to anything he does on reaction rather than anticipation. Even when he switches to Fireballs, we could snuff those out with Fire breath and patiently await him to try something else.

Tough guy really breaks Mega Man. If not for it making buster shots useless, I'd say Mega Man would be up there with Shiek as the worst MU. But instead we have a pretty even, if not advantageous matchup there.

I'm really enjoying all this discussion, but perhaps it is better suited to the MU discussion thread?

 

[MrEh]

The only time I beat Larry's Luigi was during a game where he killed himself.