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Q&A Bowser's Inside Story - Q&A

Hokori

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Got a question on your mind about Bowser in Smash 4? Feel free to ask it here and receive an answer from your fellow Koopas!

*Note: I'd recommend reading through the moveset thread and other Q&As here first before asking one of your own, as your question may have already been asked and addressed.
 
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At this point in the metagame, where would you place bowser on the tier list?

And where do you think he will place in the future?
 
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BSL

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At the moment he seems pretty high due to his increased mobility and his ridiculous damage on moves.

His size makes him susceptible to camping and easier combos, so I'd imagine he could fall to high-mid.
 

Zigsta

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Anyone tested all of Bowser's Firebreath specials with GW's bucket?
 

Espi

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Just so everyone knows, Up-B OOS is SUCH a good option OOS. What do you guys think Bowser's worst MU is? For me ROB is giving me the most trouble, ROB is terribly hard to approach.
 

Action Kazimer

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Yeah, I still love using his Up B on occasion. Tend to wait to see how roll happy my opponent is, but it's gotten some work done against the Falcons and ZSSs I've faced in Glory.

I have the most trouble with Mega Man. I'm honestly not sure if it's a mental block for me or a Bowser thing, but I seem to just crumble under that zoning. Even moreso with customs in the mix (the floaty bomb in particular.)
 

Zigsta

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Just so everyone knows, Up-B OOS is SUCH a good option OOS. What do you guys think Bowser's worst MU is? For me ROB is giving me the most trouble, ROB is terribly hard to approach.
So far I'd say Rosalina is his most difficult.
 

MrEh

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Rosalina is pretty bad yeah. Duck Hunt also feels fairly bad, but it's important to note that neither of these matchups are remotely close to how bad stuff like MK and Falco was in Brawl.
 

B!squick

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Or D3 on Green Hill Zone. Eh? Eh?

:awesome:

For whatever reason, I recall many of MrEh's matches from Brawl.
 
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MrEh

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Great part about living in Hawaii: we usually have really broad stage list early in a game's life to see if any questionable stages are actually viable.

Bad part about living in Hawaii: D3 on Green Hill Zone.
 

Over9000chainz

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how does Bowser approach anything? I always get camped out by rollers and I usually have to eat a **** ton of damage before I get in to do anything, yet when I watch tournament games it looks so easy because nobody spams roll.
 

Host Change

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Anyone have any thoughts on the matchup vs Diddy? I made it to losers finals in a tournament this past weekend and I had a lot of issues playing against Diddy and lost 1 game to 3. His forward special in particular seems to beat out a lot of my options. Diddy is one of the few characters I haven't seen much of in for glory, nor does anyone in my local crew play him so that set was pretty much an on the fly learning experience :/
 

KuroganeHammer

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@ MrEh MrEh
I need some help on my Bowser play regarding customs and when to use certain moves.

1st, custom moves, I use 1231 or 1331, is this good or bad? Normal klaw is horrible imo compared to the other two.

2nd, regarding normal moves, what should I be doing in the air, a lot of the time I'm doing AC Fair > ftilt.

Should I be using Up B OoS?

Nair seems really good against people on platforms.

I like to shield camp and grab people, one of my main approaches is run > shield > grab things, I'm not sure if this is me being bad or #newmeta.

Throws, which ones do you like most? I use a combination of f/b/d and ignore uthrow completely.

Finally, should I be edge guarding? Sometimes I get footstooled and die and this makes me VERY unhappy.
 

MrEh

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1st, custom moves, I use 1231 or 1331, is this good or bad? Normal klaw is horrible imo compared to the other two.
I want to refrain from flat out stating what's good an bad, especially when the game is new, so now's the time to experiment! I will say that I personally feel that Dash Klaw is the best Klaw. It offers mobility and a great mixup tool.

I actually dislike Hit Klaw the most, because it's weak and only sets up for combos are extremely low percents. Dash Klaw leads into more damage in nearly every situation, and offers the same great positional advantage. Also, Dash Klaw is a command grab while Hit Klaw is not. The advantages are very clear.

I will say that I feel that regular Klaw actually has more of a place in Bowser's gameplan then Hit Klaw, on the sole grounds that Dash Klaw is better then Hit Klaw in nearly every situation. Regular Klaw can still be used for the old fashioned mixup approaches and shield baits while falling on opponents. This is impossible to do with Dash Klaw or Hit Klaw. While Klaw itself is heavily nerfed from it's Brawl incarnation, I still feel it has a place if that's your thing. Regular Klaw also sets up for somewhat better punishes out of a run compared to Bowser's other alternatives.

I'll talk about Fortress in a bit.


2nd, regarding normal moves, what should I be doing in the air, a lot of the time I'm doing AC Fair > ftilt.
Depends where your opponent is. Against an aerial opponent, I'm a strong advocate for using Fair in most situations because it's absolutely massive and sets up for good pressure afterwards. Against a grounded opponent, AC Fair is fine as long as you feel like you won't get shield grabbed. Keep in mind that Ftilt rarely kills in this game, so AC Fair > Jab or Grab is by far a superior and safer option. Both come out faster then Ftilt, and cover more options. Hell, even AC Fair > Dtilt is better then Ftilt in this game. Shield push on Dtilt is really strong and Dtilt actually kills.

I'm also against using Nair because you probably could have done something better like Fair in nearly every situation. Fair is huge. Nair also sucks in general.



Should I be using Up B OoS?
A big big YES. UpB got heavily nerfed as a defensive tool in this game, but it is still one the absolute best reversals out there. The loss of invincibility means you just have to time your fortress better. There are still many guaranteed punishes that you can get with a well timed Fortress that would have been impossible with a shieldgrab or any other shield drop option. The multi hits of the fortress mean that you're always at frame advantage after you hit someone with it, so it's great for resting positioning as well as applying pressure afterwards. Also, the small hits can sometimes trip, setting up for some big tech chases if you can react to it. (this is not a gimmick, this happens OFTEN) These reasons are why I still feel that default Fortress is the best Fortress. It still gives you a defensive tool that Bowser desperately needs in his gameplan.


Nair seems really good against people on platforms.
It's ok. I very much prefer Usmash in this game. Since people cannot slide off platforms, Usmash is insanely good against people on platforms, especially since people won't just slide off the platform and punish you anymore. The autoguard on Bowser's shell prevents people from dropping through the platform and hitting you as well. It just covers so many options. Even if you opponent blocks, you take off a huge chunk of their shield and still have good positioning. If you think they're gonna stay on the platform or try and drop through and hit you, keep Usmashing. If you think they're gonna run off the platform, try Utilting after blocked Usmash or simply blocking and Fortress OoS.


I like to shield camp and grab people, one of my main approaches is run > shield > grab things, I'm not sure if this is me being bad or #newmeta.
Sometimes the best approach is to just walk at people, because at least that way you can tilt and jab whenever you want. This was applicable in Brawl as well, since Bowser's out of run options were basically just Fortress and shield really. Running is still good for covering space of course.


Throws, which ones do you like most? I use a combination of f/b/d and ignore uthrow completely.
Obviously, Fthrow or Bthrow people offstage. Dthrow can be used instead of Fthrow if you want your opponent to be slightly lower vertically. If you know your opponent is fond of jumping early in their recoveries, this can help you follow up easier. Depends on the opponent and character really.

Uthrow is pretty bad all around, but has a place on Yoshi's or Battlefield. It guarantees huge positioning advantage because of the platforms. If your opponent is at a low percent and cannot be chucked offstage, consider Uthrowing them over the platforms to give yourself good positioning.


Finally, should I be edge guarding? Sometimes I get footstooled and die and this makes me VERY unhappy.
Yes I think you should be edge guarding. Don't get discouraged if you get gimped or get footstooled. That's how you learn. The only way you'll get comfortable going offstage with Bowser is to try ballsy things and get aggressive. Even if you die a lot, just remember what works and what doesn't. A good edgeguard can secure kills, and we all know how important that is in this game. (everyone lives forever because Vectoring is stupid)
 
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Zigsta

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Anyone have any thoughts on the matchup vs Diddy? I made it to losers finals in a tournament this past weekend and I had a lot of issues playing against Diddy and lost 1 game to 3. His forward special in particular seems to beat out a lot of my options. Diddy is one of the few characters I haven't seen much of in for glory, nor does anyone in my local crew play him so that set was pretty much an on the fly learning experience :/
If Diddy's spamming side b just pivot grab him. Worked in Brawl and works in this game too.

@ MrEh MrEh I like up throw for setups. I find it easier to get fair and upair off an up throw. That said, I prefer fthrow or bthrow if I want to put myself in an edgeguarding position.
 

Cassius.

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I like UThrow the most so far because you get to see how bad people's habits truly are in this game. It does depend on the situation and the position though. If I have the opportunity to send someone offstage or get more screen control or more space to work with (or to give my opponent less space...I suppose those are the same things but somewhat different at the same time. Semantics), I will send you in that direction with a forward or back throw. If I'm trying to sniff out some information about my opponent later in the game, I'll probably use UThrow once and see how my opponent reacts (there's not much you can really figure out in two stocks, but any information is important I guess? lol)

This is with the assumption that there are no platforms. If I can do anything to put my opponent at a disadvantage by placing them on a platform, I would probably try to do that to get free command grabs or anything like that.
 
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MrEh

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Oh yeah, Hit Klaw is preferred against Rosalina, on the sole grounds that your other Klaws are useless.
 

Anragon

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I don't know if it is true but U-throw -> DJ U-air is quite a legit combo at 0%-10%
 

Cassius.

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I'm not sure if it is. You would have to have someone airdodge as soon as possible and see if UAir will connect prior to that happening.

combined with the fact that it's not a true combo by Training Mode standards, but...
it's probably one of those things that *should* be a combo but actually isn't. Seems like Bowser has quite a few.
 

Host Change

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If Diddy's spamming side b just pivot grab him. Worked in Brawl and works in this game too.
Alright thanks. I'll give that a shot. I should do better next time, its just that was my first time actually fighting the character and it happened to be in losers finals at the tournament I went to lol...
 

Anragon

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Bowser Pivot Grab is absolutely insane. People just teleport into my hands sometimes.
 

Shuckle89

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I was wondering, does bowser have any ATs or true combos at this point? Or just combos? I want to know every AT of every character so I'm kind of going through them all and I was wondering if bowser has any at the moment. I'm going through he bowser page but I haven't found any.
 

B!squick

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I was wondering, does bowser have any ATs or true combos at this point? Or just combos? I want to know every AT of every character so I'm kind of going through them all and I was wondering if bowser has any at the moment. I'm going through he bowser page but I haven't found any.
Bowser Combos: FSmash, UpB, DownB, Jab1-2, DSmash, NAir and DAir can hit multiple times I'm pretty sure.

As for ATs, I don't think there's anything yet. You use to be able to cancel the landing lag of UpB if you landed from the right height, but that got patched out and it was pretty hard to pull off consistently anyway.
 

Anragon

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Bowser benefits more from general ATs but doesn't have a lot of personal ATs himself. Things like Landing Lag Cancel with a special Move (in Bowser, Short Hop Airdodge Cancel with a special), Pivot F-tilt/F-smash, Crawl Dash on YI, etc...

Up-B cancel has been removed with patch 1.04. The only AT i know from Bowser is Crawl Dashing with custom moves (Dash Klaw).
 

saviorslegacy

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Hey what's Bowser mains? The Sheik boards is discussing the Bowser match up.
Your input would be very helpful.
 

Cassius.

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I was wondering, does bowser have any ATs or true combos at this point? Or just combos? I want to know every AT of every character so I'm kind of going through them all and I was wondering if bowser has any at the moment. I'm going through he bowser page but I haven't found any.
Bowser can also cancel turning animations by using his Side-B near the ledge. This was in the previous version of Smash and was called the 'Ledge-Cancelled Klaw ("Klaw" referring to side-B).

Basically, what you do is go toward the ledge and side b before you fall off. If you've done it right, Bowser will fall (slowly if you don't input anything), but will be facing the opposite direction, essentially facing toward the stage. This allows you to get quick BAirs if you don't have the time to turn around, or get quick FAirs against people that are recovering low if you don't have the time to jump or whatever. It's not as useful as I would like, but it's been helpful in a couple of situations, so it's worth remembering.
 

Jerodak

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Bowser can also cancel turning animations by using his Side-B near the ledge. This was in the previous version of Smash and was called the 'Ledge-Cancelled Klaw ("Klaw" referring to side-B).

Basically, what you do is go toward the ledge and side b before you fall off. If you've done it right, Bowser will fall (slowly if you don't input anything), but will be facing the opposite direction, essentially facing toward the stage. This allows you to get quick BAirs if you don't have the time to turn around, or get quick FAirs against people that are recovering low if you don't have the time to jump or whatever. It's not as useful as I would like, but it's been helpful in a couple of situations, so it's worth remembering.
One time I did this by accident into a ledge bomb while a sonic was chasing me and the bomb K.O'd Obviously not a good tactic but it looked pretty stylish.

I was wondering, does bowser have any ATs or true combos at this point? Or just combos? I want to know every AT of every character so I'm kind of going through them all and I was wondering if bowser has any at the moment. I'm going through he bowser page but I haven't found any.
Can you define what you consider to be an AT, if you want something along the lines of Koopahopping then you might be dissapointed, if you want combos, Bowser has a few true combos but mostly he has tech-chase follow-ups.
 

MrEh

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Bowser's best AT is walking.

It's so advanced that hardly any Bowser player is capable of doing it.
 

DrewMoney

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As someone who loves D3 how similar is Bowser to him? I really want to get good at Bowser because seriously...it's Bowser. Played with him a little in Melee and Brawl then picked up briefly on the 3ds. Any tips for a n00b?
 

Jerodak

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Bowser's best AT is walking.

It's so advanced that hardly any Bowser player is capable of doing it.
Lol

As someone who loves D3 how similar is Bowser to him? I really want to get good at Bowser because seriously...it's Bowser. Played with him a little in Melee and Brawl then picked up briefly on the 3ds. Any tips for a n00b?
The main difference is that D3 is more of a pressure/trap character and Bowser is more of a poke and punish character, they are both both do either decently but each character is better than the other in their respective category. You'll probably be very comfortable with the strong spacing options and big, powerful attacks but where you might need to adapt a little is when you decide to go in and how you use those big moves. Bowser's offstage game is very different from D3's and that will probably take some adjustments. Also, D3 is better than Bowser at landing, he has more jumps, a quicker fast fall, and better aerials but Bowser is better at dealing with pressure thanks to his fortress OOS, firebreath, and tilts.

Getting the knack of the character probably won't take too long, you'll probably just need to spend some time in training mode to get used to moving him around and looking at what all of his buttons do, then just apply your fundamentals and you should be better than a typical day one Bowser. Any newbie tips we have for you would most likely be stuff you already picked up form playing D3, stuff like learning to powershield, playing patiently, proper spacing, e.c.t
 

Kooky Koopa

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I'm having significant issues recently with short/quick hoppers, particularly mega men. If someone stays grounded or commits to an offensive ariel, I can deal with them. But when they short hop in place or in and out with either b-air or f-airs (Falco as an example) or in the case of Megaman, projectiles (saw, bomb, pellets at late %), I am absolutely stumped how to safely get through them without leaving myself open.

I stopped rushing at them trying to bait a shield and OoS whirling fortress (which works vs Marths and Lucinas due to landing lag), but vs much faster characters like Falco or Mega man who can just keep doing it at incredible speeds, I don't know what to do. Walking seems to slightly remedy this, but there is only so many times one can perfect shield or land a f-tilt before a minor slip or too early of a whirling fortress and receive a boot or saw blade to the face.

Any advice?
 
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Calm_Animal

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i was going against a megaman, who was pretty good. i was getting beat up, but i start to powershield or catch the saw blade throw it back at them, and start winnning the rest of the matches. You can also powershield and catch the saw blade before goes pass u. other then that crash bomber shouldn't scare, most the time the megaman space with eithier full hoop f-air to saw blade or n-air. i get in there before they can get that zoning game started.
 

UltimaLuminaire

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I stopped rushing at them trying to bait a shield and OoS whirling fortress (which works vs Marths and Lucinas due to landing lag), but vs much faster characters like Falco or Mega man who can just keep doing it at incredible speeds, I don't know what to do. Walking seems to slightly remedy this, but there is only so many times one can perfect shield or land a f-tilt before a minor slip or too early of a whirling fortress and receive a boot or saw blade to the face.

Any advice?
Your only other options beside the amazing pimp walk -> power shield combo are to perform some retreating Fairs or dash stop (not against fast ground characters like Fox) to bait the opponent into over-committing or trading. Retreating Fairs has the perk of creating a frame trap at the expense of some stage control while the dash stop can easily lead into sexy pivot grabs or straight up jabs, which function better against opponents like Mario. You can also short hop air dodge cancel into up b.
 

Hitman JT

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As a half-decent Bowser main, I'd like to know which characters counter Bowser the best?
Don't know about the best counters but Sheik, Sonic, ROB and Diddy give me the hardest time as Bowser. Each of them are still beatable as long as you can somehow not get grabbed >_>
 

HairyFatLord

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Fighting ROB feels like hell, I have to crawl through the top and laser spam only to feel like I have one read before he's clear on the other side of the screen again.

I can't get a read on him, and even when I do he feels like his roll and spot dodge recovery don't even exist, though that's likely due to my desperation to actually get hands on him.
 

Jerodak

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With R.O.B you just have to be patient, keep in mind that while his aerials can be really stupid to deal with once they get started, and have very little landing lag, they have a lot of start-up which makes them punishable, so you just have to punish R.O.B a bit differently in the air than normal. You can shield the lasers however you want, but powershielding is always best because it keeps your shield full so that you can block the entire side B if he thinks it'll shield poke you. In the case of a blocked side-b, Fsmash is guaranteed. Picking up the gyro is a good way to mess with him, I like to double jump and smash throw it straight up, this way he can't knock it out of my hands to force it to vanish faster and I can fight completely freely while it's in the air. R.O.B will probably try to go for it, and you can use this opportunity to punish him if he tries. Alternatively if the gyro lands on the ground, you can use it as bait to go in for a punish on R.O.B for picking it up.

When he's offstage, rush him but do it carefully, his recovery is pretty simple, you just need to keep him from landing or grabbing the ledge until his fuel runs out, I believe he can only aerial out of it a limited number of times as well, but basically he doesn't move very fast during it and it's kinda linear so you can just wall him out until he starts sputtering smoke, at that point he's basically helpess because he's out of fuel. Don't bother going for anything fancy on his recovery unless you see a big opening for it, just try to keep him from landing and getting the gimp is entirely possible.
 

B!squick

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What probable low tier characters are you veteran Bowser players liking the most? I'm really enjoying Pac-Man and I'm pretty sure he'll end up in the bottom 10 at best.
 
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