Q&A Bowser's Inside Story - Q&A

[S_B]

Luigi always feels like a bad MU because Bowser is a big, fat target for that uppercut of doom and it can kill him at ~70%.

Seriously, you can't risk fortress OoS, a non-autocanceled f/bair, a whiffed smash...anything that'll give Weegee that split second needed to run in and send you to the goddamn moon...

 

[Cassius.]

It's just your standard high risk MU. You can't afford to play sloppy. Everything you said we get punished hard for are things that generally constitute sloppy Bowser play.

 

[S_B]

It's just your standard high risk MU. You can't afford to play sloppy. Everything you said we get punished hard for are things that generally constitute sloppy Bowser play.

I haven't looked into it, but I believe Weegee can even get that uppercut on what are normally "safe" whiffs for Bowser. If Weegee spotdodges a grab, you're uppercutted.

 

[Cassius.]

This is why pivot grab exists. You don't have to be directly in his face.

 

[S_B]

Very true, and at least we can treat every fireball tossed as a chance to run in and punish...

 

[MrEh]

Luigi would honestly be an ok matchup if Nado didn't destroy everything it touches.

 

[arcticfox_14]

Luigi would honestly be an ok matchup if Nado didn't destroy everything it touches.

It's true, but IF it's used as an approach mixup and you shield it all it's one of only a handful of moves in the game laggy enough for an fsmash punish. Any time an opponent gives me one of those not requiring a hard read is truly a gift.

 

[MrEh]

Luigi can just use it anytime you're in the air and pretty much beat anything you do.

Lots of things are punishable if blocked. The problem is that Luigi can just throw it out in situations where you physically cannot block.

 

[S_B]

Messing around with Weegee myself, I found the tornado was kinda ridiculous, especially against a character the size of Bowser where you have such an easy time getting all of the hitboxes to connect in the air.

 

[Zigsta]

Luigi can just use it anytime you're in the air and pretty much beat anything you do.

Lots of things are punishable if blocked. The problem is that Luigi can just throw it out in situations where you physically cannot block.

This. If Lugi goes after you offstage and Nados you when you're below him, Bowser can't get back. It's awful. I've learned to just not go offstage against Luigi. Way too risky.

 

[MagiusNecros]

This. If Lugi goes after you offstage and Nados you when you're below him, Bowser can't get back. It's awful. I've learned to just not go offstage against Luigi. Way too risky.

Couldn't you just yolo dair him as he nado's?

 

[Zigsta]

Couldn't you just yolo dair him as he nado's?

No, I'm referring to Luigi being above Bowser offstage while he Nados, not the opposite way around. The bottom of Nados gimps if Luigi mashes fast enough.

 

[S_B]

No, I'm referring to Luigi being above Bowser offstage while he Nados, not the opposite way around. The bottom of Nados gimps if Luigi mashes fast enough.

I assume Uair doesn't beat it?

I know that Uair can beat some things (I've beaten a falcon kick coming straight at me with it, at the start of the move, too). I know we discovered Bowser's head is intangible to a certain extent during the move...

 

[Zigsta]

I assume Uair doesn't beat it?

I know that Uair can beat some things (I've beaten a falcon kick coming straight at me with it, at the start of the move, too). I know we discovered Bowser's head is intangible to a certain extent during the move...

Not sure, but if you upair too deep, you won't be able to make it back. Luigis only use tornado offstage when you're pretty low--or else they'll just go for an aerial.

 

[S_B]

Not sure, but if you upair too deep, you won't be able to make it back. Luigis only use tornado offstage when you're pretty low--or else they'll just go for an aerial.

Good point, and I wouldn't be comfortable trying to use Uair to challenge an attack that spikes (though if Bowser could reliably do that, it'd be AMAZING...).

I take it rising with fortress gets beaten by nado, right?

 

[Zigsta]

I take it rising with fortress gets beaten by nado, right?

Yeah, it sadly loses to Nado.

 

[MagiusNecros]

What about Nair? It has like 3-4 different hitboxes.

 

[S_B]

What about Nair? It has like 3-4 different hitboxes.

Probably too slow, and doing a nair offstage means losing some serious height. :\

 

[MagiusNecros]

Probably too slow, and doing a nair offstage means losing some serious height. :\

An easy solution at the expense of Fortress is to just use Flying Fortress and not care about Nado at all.

 

[Cassius.]

Yeah, but then you lose up-b as a defensive option (which despite what I mentioned in previous posts is still important), and Flying Fortress would probably STILL trade with Luigi cyclone lol

Luigi's opt to use Cyclone offstage to either trade and gimp their victims recovery or just beat it out completely. It's a pretty good move. Luigi is really stupid good

 

[MagiusNecros]

Which really leaves you to not force a situation for offstageness. Because I agree that Fortress is crucial to our punish game.

 

[Jaycen_Thunda]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the Bowser Boards, but not to Bowser per say. A Casual becoming Competitive.
Lately I've just been reading random threads here and there, going around in circles/information overload.

Any threads I should read first? Should I start posting my fights here this early?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Jaycen_Thunda Welcome! If you're looking for information that will help you in a competitive environment, the most important threads will be the Bowser Video Archive, Bowser Match-up Topic, and the Bowser Moveset Data & Discussion. Don't be shy if you've got matches recorded. The Video Archive is a valuable tool for obtaining feedback.

Additionally, here are a few threads that are worth reading:

• Bowser and the art of empty hopping
• Bowser's Whirling Fortress Boost
• Flying Slam - Who has control?

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Hi I've noticed a lot of good bowser players seem to have flawless perfect pivoting skills in terms of spacing with what I believe is their jab and their f/d tilts. Do bowser mains typically use c stick as smash attack or is it set to attack?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Hi I've noticed a lot of good bowser players seem to have flawless perfect pivoting skills in terms of spacing with what I believe is their jab and their f/d tilts. Do bowser mains typically use c stick as smash attack or is it set to attack?

Depends on the player. I do know if you grab then turnaround in quick sucession and will do a pivot grab and vice versa gets you a Ftilt.

My C-Stick is for smash attacks on reaction such as Upsmash.

 

[Jerodak]

If you want some easy Bowser match-ups, I'm surprised no one brought up Jigglypuff or Little Mac, those are probably two of his easiest match-ups of all time. Jiggs has to spend most of the match just trying to get in and with Mac can pretty much just get him airborne and start pivot grabbing.

Default Villager is surprisingly easy, at least in my experience so far, considering that Villager is projectile heavy, which usually gives Bowser at least a bit of trouble. However, I've never found Villy's wall to be that tough to deal with, and once Villager is offstage, keeping him/her offstage isn't that much of a problem, you should be able to at least rack up some damage whenever VIllager is thrown off. Also, if they get too comfortable with slingshots, you can just crawl under them and sneak in a Dtilt at K.O percents.

As far as tough match-ups, I'd like to bring up Lucario and ZZS

Spoiler

those are doable, but it can be really frustrating dealing with good players your first time. Peach can be a little tough too, but she's not nearly as annoying as she was in Brawl.

 

[lava_scorpion]

Hey guys I am a little bit of a newbie, also this might be a little dumb, but do you guys know which are the exact inputs to ledgesnap with bowser? I would really thank an answer.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ L lava_scorpion As you run off, input quarter circle back. Keep practicing.

 

[Jaycee_023]

Who would you guys say are three to five of Bowser's worst matchups? Based on recent discussion I'd guess Luigi is one of those

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Jaycee_023 Take your pick

 

[Cassius.]

After those few, the difficulty kind of drops a tier.

I would say as far as **** hitting the fan (I present, a tier list on how poorly Bowser does against characters):

S
Sheik, Luigi

A
ZSS (Yoshi is somewhere in A)

A-
Diddy (unsure about 1.08 placement), Sonic, Fox, Pikachu, Brawler?

B
Rosalina, (ROB probably fits somewhere in here)

B-/C+
Other Throw combo XCopy characters (Mario, Falcon, etc. Standard high tier/top 10 junk), Olimar?

The only character I have no idea where to place is Kirby. The match up itself is actually a lot more difficult than you'd think, but rage just plays such an enormous role that I'm not sure.

Contrary to popular belief, the only projectile/zone characters you should have issues with are Villager, DHD and maybe Robin on a bad day. Samus and Link aren't bad at all.

Every other MU in this game is fairly manageable due to rage/limitations in mechanics. Even the worst MUs can be turned around due to a few bad decisions on your opponent's part. I can only rate the matchups based on feel of difficulty, it's hard to put numbers on things in this game. I would say it's damn near impossible for the first five-six characters I listed to make mistakes and actually drop games to us if they just play to their character's strengths.

Oh, and: PLEASE, DO NOT LOSE TO:
Shulk, Ganondorf

I don't know where to place the new DLC yet, and this isn't factoring in customs because I don't care about that.

I'm still pretty sure the biggest insult to a Smash player is to tell them that their character loses to Bowser.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

The Kirby MU ends up being similar to the Jiggs MU. You have to play it differently, patiently, and with the mind set that you need to look for opportunities to out prioritize their approach rather than trying to punish the end lag on their aerials. The refined UTilt makes this easier. Being stuck in your shield is perhaps the worst option against these two.

 

[Hitman JT]

IMO



in that order

Spoiler

1000TH POST HYPE

 

[Cassius.]

You think Yoshi is worse than Luigi? What about ZSS?

After giving it more thought, Yoshi is a lot more difficult than I gave it credit for initially. It's still a **** MU for the same reasons it was **** back in Brawl (minus grab release life-death 50/50). Nothing has really changed lol

 

[Karsticles]

I actually struggle against Ganondorf. :-/

 

[Hitman JT]

You think Yoshi is worse than Luigi? What about ZSS?

After giving it more thought, Yoshi is a lot more difficult than I gave it credit for initially. It's still a **** MU for the same reasons it was **** back in Brawl (minus grab release life-death 50/50). Nothing has really changed lol

Theoretically ZSS should be a huge pain in the ass but I have a hard time dying to anything outside of a desperate up B. I'll probably change my mind when I play other ZSS players outside of my one training partner. I'd probably put her at #7 and put Pikachu as #5 replacing Diddy, so:


Again, IMO. All are probably in the top 10 somewhere so no big surprise there. I still don't think Luigi owns us for free since he can't use fireballs at will. I actually find Mario to be slightly more annoying.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I actually struggle against Ganondorf. :-/

That Flame Choke tech.

 

[MrEh]

Yoshi is hard, but Yoshi still has to be honest about getting kill moves in.

ZSS can just yolo upB and it beats everything you do.

 

[Corgian]

I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned C. Falc.

This is easily my most troublesome matchup. No matter what C Falc I fight, I just can't seem to get a grip. My disjoints aren't big enough to beat out his grab box, and he's able to get in so much quicker than I'm able to get a move out. I'm at such a loss for this matchup and I have no idea why. I can't even pivot Ftilt to break his approach.

 

[MagiusNecros]

You can beat falcon's grab with your pivot grab.