***Bowser Moveset Discussion, Move 16: Up B, Fortress***

[Phiddlesticks]

A nice little "string" that's fun to do goes like this.

SHFair > Jab cancel > Side B.

Here is an example of said "string" :D (woo shameless promoting)

One thing I like to do every once in awhile against characters with overall predictable recoveries is dropping from the stage and immediately fairing. As long as you don't fast fall it, you can get back to the edge just by double jumping (because using your upb when facing away from the edge is very punishable), and if you hit your opponent after they've used their double jump, they are most likely not making it back.

 

[MrEh]

Can't say anything else that hasn't already been said.


I usually follow up my canceled Fairs with Jabs, and ignore the Klaw completely unless I know my opponent is overly defensive. I play a lot of people that like to predict those sort of shenanigans. They know me all too well...

 

[B!squick]

Fair is the back bone of Bowser, with Shield being the heart and Grab being the soul.

 

[Bowser King]

Ftilt is the brain and ^b is the skeleton?


-Bowser King

 

[hippiedude92]

I love doing Fairs to ftilts/dtilts, it autocancels its his fastest aerial, decent moderate knockback, IMO his best aerial.

 

[B!squick]

Ftilt is the brain and ^b is the skeleton?


-Bowser King

Maybe. I kinda consider the UpB as the whirling shell of doom and Ftilt as the big reptilian fist of butt kicking, err, punching.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Move #7 is D Air. Useless or situational? Prominent Bowsers are seen to be using this move more and more, is it worth it? Also, this move's name should make you happy inside.

Discuss...

 

[Liquid Gen]

AHH MORE TEXT.

Bowser's dair is unique... By unique, I mean, you either love it or hate it; there is no in between, and there is good reason.

First, let's look at why people hate it.

-Terrible Landing Lag
-Takes Long To Finish (if attempted to be used in air for edgeguarding (wat))
-Damage is okay, but not too great for the risk

The most prominent effect is the landing lag. It's just terrible, and leaves you open for quite a while.

However, the dair is far from uselss; though situational at best. First of all, the damage is okay; around... 20 or so per hit, if they all connect that is.

The landing lag can be dealt with; at the end of the dair's hitbox (rather, when you land while performing it), a small win effect is experienced. It pushes away anyone hit by it, making the lag on the move almost null. Thus, a viable option unshielded.

In the air, Dair is good as well. In the air, the ending animation has a spike hidden when it ends. If all hits connect, the final one will send them spiraling down to their doom. Though it's very hard to pull off, a good set up is to short hop and immediately dair off stage; this allows you to recover from it, so long as you don't fastfall it.

On use I've noticed a certain Bowser use is when on the ledge, ledgehop dair back onto the stage iff they're trying to recover as well. The hits will connect, and the final one will push back, giving breathing room.

An interesting thing to note about dair is the shield stun; when you hit someone's shield, they will have to shield all of the hits, or else be subject to hit. And when the final hit connects, it will push back their shield to far and prevent a shield grab. It also shield pokes many characters, namely Gdubs and Honkey Kong.

Basically, dair is a situational move, but very good at what it does; damage building. 20 damage per execution is nice, and if you get that spike once (like I did) you'll have a sense of realization.

Hell yeah.

 

[B!squick]

I'd love to get a spike of it. It should also be noted that the multi hits are good against spot dodgers.

 

[MrEh]

Jump of the ledge and use it as the most useless edgeguard move ever.

In all seriousness though, don't.

 

[sniperworm]

Jump of the ledge and use it as the most useless edgeguard move ever.

In all seriousness though, don't.

You know, I got gimped by a level 9 comp like this once...

 

[MrEh]

You know, I got gimped by a level 9 comp like this once...

I'm not sure if that's funny or scary. O_o

That proves it. Comps are beasts.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Mm. As said, it's not totally useless as edgeguard. And by edgeguard I mean sh off the stage to an attempted spike, btw.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I would call it useless considering fair/bair edgeguards are both much better and more likely to hit. If your opponent is at a high enough percentage where the dair will actually spike them far enough so that they can't recover, a fair or bair would most likely kill them.

I honestly use upair as an edgeguard more than dair.

 

[Liquid Gen]

I meant for when they recover low.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

So did I

 

[LinIsKorean]

Dair shield pokes when timed properly so that he is doing the attack while he hits the floor. Only reason, imo, why this move isn't completely terribad.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I would still rather grab them out of their shield with a klaw

 

[Liquid Gen]

Everythings better when you mix it up.

Makes you look praw.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Move #8 is U Air. Grab release to U Air against Jigglypuff is the most fun thing in the game unquestionably.

Discuss...

 

[Liquid Gen]

In Brawl, the easiest way to kill is vertically for most characters, hands down. This is the same for Bowser.

Bowser has the strongest up air in the game, in damage (I think) and knockback. It's like an aerial smash attack; thats how good it is.

It's pretty fast for its strength; and it ko's most characters at around 80 percent. (Jiggs at about 70% from a grab release :weird And you can pretty much throw out up airs ALLL DAY. It's really fast like that.

This is really good pressure on stages with platforms, I.E. Battlefield for when they're shielding. And, if they try to drop down, up tilt tiem guize.

Up air, I've found, is very good for mindgames. Generally when someone sees Bowser come to them in the air, they'll airdodge. So you have two options:

1.) Bait the airdodge and hit with up air.

2.) Attempt to hit with up air, have it airdodge, and follow their DI and meet them with a back air, or forward air, proceed to edgehog (if off ledge) or follow up (ground).

Edgeguarding with up air is pretty effective (most dont see it coming). Just jump offstage, act like you're gonna forward air, instead drop below and boom, uair their face off.

Always attempt to hit with up air, it's basically un-punishable in midair. The landing lag is pretty bad, so make sure you can hit with it if you're close to ground.

 

[MrEh]

Actually, I think Zelda's Uair has more knockback.

It's still freakishly strong though.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Really...

Hm, I heard ours was stronger.

Ah well, ours is more manly, at least I would hope so.

 

[LinIsKorean]

lol, I think Liquid got most everything on this one.

U-air makes a small arc above Bowser's head for the hitbox though.

=)

 

[Blistering Speed]

Liquid needs to wait a few days before posting because his pre-written essay bull**** ruins discussion lol.
<3 really Gen, though perhaps waiting a day before posting your essay would be good. Of course, you don't have to but I think it'd benefit discussion just because you cover everything in such detail.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I get 50% of my kills with U-air. People seem to forget what Bowsers U-air does/look like/exsist.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Upair is such a gg move 3: I don't think anything humiliates your opponent more than baiting an air dodge into a Bowser upair. It just feels so good when you hit with it.

I'm also still pretty sure Bowser can hit Wario from an air release with a quick sh upair.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I believe this is only Jigglypuff, can MrEh or anyone else confirm?

 

[St. Viers]

yeah, bowsers u-air is sexy--if only it had the comparative range of melee's up-air XD

 

[Liquid Gen]

^ Its range has been traded for speed.

A fairer trade off imo.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Move #9 is B Air.

Discuss...

 

[Jim Morrison]

Do not SH it. I really love this move as when jumping off the stage, be it for a stage spike or just edgeguarding. I use this more than N-air :O. Some IIRC bottom part semi-spikes well. It has decent knockback at the tip.

 

[B!squick]

It should never be used near the ground, though Klaw/Koopa Hopping gets rid of that nasty landing lag if I remember correctly. Now if your opponent thinks they're safe dangling off the ledge, a run off -> Bair -> stage spike -> -1 stock from them is good way to show them they are quite mistaken.

It's also a nice edge guard if you leap out to meet them while they're recovering. It has deceptive range and if you can hit with it off stage, they'er likely not coming back.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Bair = Godly.

Bair has some unique properties that make it special. Generally, bair is a nice killer; it kills at good percentages (100-120% on stage) and much earlier (like 80%) off stage. And I have several instances of it semi-spiking opponents.

It's really good for koopahop mindgames, often a surprise. Through platforms, it will make you cream.

A nice little flashy edgehog I've devised is a simple shbair off stage to ledgegrab. It's really flashy, but not all too practical.

I'd write more, but I'm hungry/lazy. Ill write more later.

 

[S_B]

The best part about the move it that it seems to result in entirely horizontal knockback, often making it a great killer for an off the stage chase if you can line up where your opponent will be returning. It also means that enemies hit by it are going to have a difficult time getting back to the stage if they have a bad vertical recovery.

The only downside of using it as a chaser is that you NEED to conserve your double jump for afterwards, as you won't be recovering if you use it about level with the stage otherwise. Fair is less risky for this reason as you can Fair multiple times and not worry about gimping your own recovery.

 

[MrEh]

Kill things with it.

 

[S_B]

Kill things with it.

This kind of progressive thinking can be dangerous. :0

 

[Phiddlesticks]

It should never be used near the ground, though Klaw/Koopa Hopping gets rid of that nasty landing lag if I remember correctly.

There's also this other technique that gets rid of bair's landing lag. It's called "full jumping"

 

[S_B]

There's also this other technique that gets rid of bair's landing lag. It's called "full jumping"

Madness!

But seriously, using it on the way up in a full jump works well, I find.

 

[Hobobloke]

^
What they all said

But seriously its an awesome edgeguard if you can hit with it. I use it all the time.