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***Bowser Moveset Discussion, Move 16: Up B, Fortress***
- Thread starter Blistering Speed
- Start date
- Status
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
The thing I love about his downB is him grabbing ledges while he plumbets. I love edgeguarding with this move because even though there are other edgehogging options that might be better, he stalls a bit in the air so he has good timing options.
The cool thing about Bowser's downB is that if you press downB quickly while hanging onto the ledge, you'll be able to grab it again without using your mid-air jump. Even though it's one of his fastest options to grab the ledge again, you might plumbet to your doom if you screw up. I would only recommend this if you're absolutely sure that you'll grab the ledge again.
The cool thing about Bowser's downB is that if you press downB quickly while hanging onto the ledge, you'll be able to grab it again without using your mid-air jump. Even though it's one of his fastest options to grab the ledge again, you might plumbet to your doom if you screw up. I would only recommend this if you're absolutely sure that you'll grab the ledge again.
Although it deals decent damage and high knockback; Bowser bomb has a predictable trajectory (straight down), high ending lag and weak priotity that make it a very unsafe move to use as a regular attack.
However, the Bowser bomb has some unusual properties, notably weird momentum cancellation, a weird, 2 hit trajectory when grounded and relative high damage (and the fact it will remain fresh) which makes it a very viable option in some situations and a good suprise move.
Use it to:
-Get to the edge and ledgestall. No need for an explanation.
-Break shields. Jab+2hit Bowser bomb= broken shield. If the opponent shields your jab, you should follow imediately with a gounded down-B. No one expects it, and you are then free to follow up with a charged fsmash. Don't do it more than twice per match though: it works only because the opponent won't think of dodging it; and only that.
I also use it to punish uairs. Yep, it sounds stupid, but it actually works sometimes. Once again, don't try it on link, and only use it in the right circumstances. Bowser's down-b seems to cancel all downwards momentum, so either you do i a tad early and trade hits with the opponent or you time it make the opponent whiff his attack (its predictable though). I never dared to use it like that on a good opponent though, so I don't really know if that use is tournament viable or not.
Overall, Bowser bomb is your high-risk/miscellaneous-reward move that relies on your opponent's cluelessness to land and as such is extremely situational but has the potential to change the momentum of the battle. I usually use it to break a shield (if I have the opportunity) as soon as possible to scare the s*** out of my opponent each time I jab his shield and a second time for a "free" kill with Fsmash.
However, the Bowser bomb has some unusual properties, notably weird momentum cancellation, a weird, 2 hit trajectory when grounded and relative high damage (and the fact it will remain fresh) which makes it a very viable option in some situations and a good suprise move.
Use it to:
-Get to the edge and ledgestall. No need for an explanation.
-Break shields. Jab+2hit Bowser bomb= broken shield. If the opponent shields your jab, you should follow imediately with a gounded down-B. No one expects it, and you are then free to follow up with a charged fsmash. Don't do it more than twice per match though: it works only because the opponent won't think of dodging it; and only that.
I also use it to punish uairs. Yep, it sounds stupid, but it actually works sometimes. Once again, don't try it on link, and only use it in the right circumstances. Bowser's down-b seems to cancel all downwards momentum, so either you do i a tad early and trade hits with the opponent or you time it make the opponent whiff his attack (its predictable though). I never dared to use it like that on a good opponent though, so I don't really know if that use is tournament viable or not.
Overall, Bowser bomb is your high-risk/miscellaneous-reward move that relies on your opponent's cluelessness to land and as such is extremely situational but has the potential to change the momentum of the battle. I usually use it to break a shield (if I have the opportunity) as soon as possible to scare the s*** out of my opponent each time I jab his shield and a second time for a "free" kill with Fsmash.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
I hardly use the bomb, but if it's used grounded and both hits connect (the one used to claw them up and the bomb itself) it breaks every shield. ;O
Just saw that the guy above me posted the same. lol
Blind Spade is blind.
Just saw that the guy above me posted the same. lol
Blind Spade is blind.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I'll update tomorrow, refreshing to see a near 09er be useful.
Down-B is a nice option to grab the ledge with (more options the better). Other than that, it's one of the least expected moves from Bowser off-the-ground, simply due to its nature. A quick down-B can easily kill a player before he/she can react with proper DI. Otherwise, it's just a showy move that will get kills on accident, save for when you predict an opponent's up-smash. Pretty gutsy, but I've seen it done (and even used it once to punish an early up-smash).
Speaking of accidental kills, I'll never forget this event:
While fighting a decent Marth, I intended to use down-B as a surprise. However, my friend used his down B counter. The first hit going up activated the counter-attack, forcing him to eat my down-B. The look on his face was priceless.
Speaking of accidental kills, I'll never forget this event:
While fighting a decent Marth, I intended to use down-B as a surprise. However, my friend used his down B counter. The first hit going up activated the counter-attack, forcing him to eat my down-B. The look on his face was priceless.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
*Wipes a tear* Guys, it's our last move! What a move it is too.
Move #16 is Fortress.
Discuss...
Move #16 is Fortress.
Discuss...
Got nerfed from melee, by making it impossible (iirc) to fortresshog, and with shield drop taking less time, upB OOS isn't as useful as it was in melee. It's still a good out of shield option though, and when fresh, has surprising knockback, as well as maneuverability after you get your hit.
In terms of actual recovering, it's pretty decent, though ^__^
In terms of actual recovering, it's pretty decent, though ^__^
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
Reserved for my summary, will edit later (physics assignment)
B!squick
Smash Master
Fortress is that one sluty looking chick checking you out from a couple seats away at the bar. Use her thusly.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Hit things with it.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
What about the throws? Won't we discuss them, too?
Also, Fortress is too good. One of the best moves in the game, period.
Also, Fortress is too good. One of the best moves in the game, period.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
It's strange, I've never classed throws as the stereotypical "Move" before, though don't be confused, I will still discuss them haha. After that we'll move onto ATs (what little Bowser has) and then a summary of general ground and air game etc.
*Edit* Dash attack and ledge options/attacks too.
*Edit* Dash attack and ledge options/attacks too.
I was going to go long-winded, but there's no point. Don't forget to pull the air fortress out of your *ss to tack on surprisingly good damage. It can't turn the match around like the uair, and it doesn't scare anyone because there's no visible KO power, but... just... the damage. Such great damage.
Sgt. Baker
Smash Ace
What else is there to say? This sucka helps out sooooooooo much. Ahhh OoS
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
Even though we all know how awesome the.move is for the sake of this thread can you please write a lengthy summary instead of just one line, while we may know all the uses new bowser players might not.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Fine fine... is one of Bowser's fastest attacks, invincibility frames help Bowser's defensive game far too good, generally high priority, decent horizontal recovery options, good for punishing, approaching and retreating, best OoS option for Bowser due to the invincibility frames, does good damage, can KO.
Only drawback is the cooldown.
Only drawback is the cooldown.
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
Cooldown can be eliminated by either grabbing the ledge or mitigated by mindgaming your direction, preventing punishment.
Radiation
Smash Apprentice
If anyone doesn't space a move on you correctly or idiotically attacks a grounded Bowser from the air (shield it) and isn't abusing an enormous disjointed hitbox they take 12-18% free damage. Pretty much this is your bread and butter defensive move because it's invincible for the frames Bowser's laggy-*** spotdodge doesn't cover, his jump is laggy and his rolls suck.
You should be using this move every time you can hit with it unless you're fighting someone like G&W who dies really early to it, in which case you should probably use it at low %s vs. anyway. Pretty much the noobier your opponent is the more you can spam this. Versus really good people you won't be able to use it very often because they will space their attacks really well, but keeping your opponents at bay helps Bowser anyway because of his range.
Also it beats virtually all boxing options except really fast shieldgrabs (you can usually get away unless they're quick and have amazing grab range) and it clanks with most jabs if you don't beat them. I guess if you were being really predictable they could just shield and grab you in the lag but you CAN fortresshog with it, and when you can't you can move far enough away that you can't get punished except maybe by laser fire. Hogging with it is a lot harder in this game and it usually doesn't matter unless you're fighting someone who has memorized the matchup.
Also because of invincibility sometimes you can hit people between their jab cancels or between laggy jabs that don't actually combo if you're not being hit into the air by them yet, hitting with it in the air deals sex damage but due to brawl's physics they can nair you out of it
I dunno, it's free damage and Bowser's fastest move, and probably his best thing to deal with people that like to roll because it's not as punishable as dsmash, and the extra hit after the big initial one is sexy vs. spotdodgers and if you screw up somehow.
ps - despite all this its priority is still not that great, don't think you can fortress out of a forward smash or anything. it's not like it's magic, you can't get away with not using it smart.
pps - airdodging into this move is hilarious (not something you can spam though)
also sliq I don't know if you're reading this but approaching with forward+b from my own piss-poor experience is GOOD because of the lack of landing lag but SITUATIONAL because anyone can easily hit you out of it when you're in the air because bowser stays in the air so long; the range is pretty good (especially when moving backwards) for an aerial grab. it works AMAZINGLY vs. people that love to stand there and shield aerials or spotdodge like a champ or people on the defensive but vs. offensive people or characters with range you'll get shut down a LOT if you attempt it often because bowser is so **** slow in the air. it's still a pretty **** good mixup though! people that spam their solely-defensive options get eaten by bowser
You should be using this move every time you can hit with it unless you're fighting someone like G&W who dies really early to it, in which case you should probably use it at low %s vs. anyway. Pretty much the noobier your opponent is the more you can spam this. Versus really good people you won't be able to use it very often because they will space their attacks really well, but keeping your opponents at bay helps Bowser anyway because of his range.
Also it beats virtually all boxing options except really fast shieldgrabs (you can usually get away unless they're quick and have amazing grab range) and it clanks with most jabs if you don't beat them. I guess if you were being really predictable they could just shield and grab you in the lag but you CAN fortresshog with it, and when you can't you can move far enough away that you can't get punished except maybe by laser fire. Hogging with it is a lot harder in this game and it usually doesn't matter unless you're fighting someone who has memorized the matchup.
Also because of invincibility sometimes you can hit people between their jab cancels or between laggy jabs that don't actually combo if you're not being hit into the air by them yet, hitting with it in the air deals sex damage but due to brawl's physics they can nair you out of it
I dunno, it's free damage and Bowser's fastest move, and probably his best thing to deal with people that like to roll because it's not as punishable as dsmash, and the extra hit after the big initial one is sexy vs. spotdodgers and if you screw up somehow.
ps - despite all this its priority is still not that great, don't think you can fortress out of a forward smash or anything. it's not like it's magic, you can't get away with not using it smart.
pps - airdodging into this move is hilarious (not something you can spam though)
also sliq I don't know if you're reading this but approaching with forward+b from my own piss-poor experience is GOOD because of the lack of landing lag but SITUATIONAL because anyone can easily hit you out of it when you're in the air because bowser stays in the air so long; the range is pretty good (especially when moving backwards) for an aerial grab. it works AMAZINGLY vs. people that love to stand there and shield aerials or spotdodge like a champ or people on the defensive but vs. offensive people or characters with range you'll get shut down a LOT if you attempt it often because bowser is so **** slow in the air. it's still a pretty **** good mixup though! people that spam their solely-defensive options get eaten by bowser
B!squick
Smash Master
If you fast fall it just right from the peak of your jump you still get the nice 3 frames of landing lag. I'm just presuming this though since once when I was Klaw Jumping randomly I Klawed at the peak of my jump, swiveled the stick down to FF it and I was still in the SideB's frames since I was able to jump again before landing. I'm sure if you do that you'd surprise the **** out of your opponent, lol.
HUGE MYTH! Hang on while I go find that one link...
EDIT: I'll just post the entry from my tech thread.
~BOWSER IS NOT SLOW~
This is taken from the match up thread in regards to Bowser's speed:
I'll repeat, Bowser is not slow. This is NOT a valid arguement for anyone playing against Bowser unless their name is Sonic, so feel free to laugh in their face whenever you hear it.
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
*cough*
Can we at least finish the moves then if someone wants to continue this threat (considering i know you don't visit the boards much anymore) they can.
Can we at least finish the moves then if someone wants to continue this threat (considering i know you don't visit the boards much anymore) they can.
B!squick
Smash Master
Way to fail Blistering. I thought we were tight.
War&Peace
Smash Rookie
UpB is a very good move. Quick, good knockback, and pops the opponent into the air. It has somewhat bad cooldown frames, but it's BOWSER'S FASTEST MOVE (along with jab). It's punishable at lower percents. I tend to use this a lot. Very defensive type of move. OoS works nicely because it gives you invincibility frames for the startup of the attack.
Overall rating: 9/10
Overall rating: 9/10
Jonas
Smash Champion
Bowser would be a** without Fortress.
EmeraldParu
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2012
- Messages
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Heh, if you manage to bellyflop off the stage with the Koopa Klaw and you both have one stock, you'll get the win
Uncle
Novus Ordo Seclorum
Show's over, folks. I'm putting this zombie back in the ground.
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