Important Bidou Tech

[OshaHott]

I f***ing quit Smash. I can't even Foxtrot Cancel consistently!

 

[Yonder]

So, what characters do you guys think would benefit the most from bidou techs if mastered?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

 

[Big-Cat]

So, what characters do you guys think would benefit the most from bidou techs if mastered?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

Great, more ****. For once this looks like it could change the game completely. You practically have Smash with Tekken's mobility options.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So, what characters do you guys think would benefit the most from bidou techs if mastered?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

Uhh wow, pretty much everyone.

 

[Pancracio17]

Jesus christ that bidou tech looks amazing! If this was know for a while why want it used more? Its jaw dropping.

 

[Big-Cat]

The main reason would likely be the button scheme and controller requirement.

I wouldn't be surprised if Smash NX proper gives us Tekken level mobility options on the ground.

 

[Shaya]

So we've finally found something which allows us to more readily abuse the awkward buffering system the game has.
(Tilt/Specials C-sticks registering two inputs independently and only for single frames; something i've been tinkering with but not to this extent)

"turn around down tilt"
is not a bidou exclusive tech though.
It's just hard lol.

Actually most of the latter half of the video is stuff good players do with likely very little input delay, just they're tricky.
The perfect pivot implementations though are a whole new ball game.

 

[FullMoon]

I actually saw the original video on it a couple of weeks ago in the Brazilian discord community. I didn't quite understand it so I never said anything about it but now that My Smash Corner explained it better I could see it being really useful

But I'm probably not gonna get much out of it because I just don't have the dexterity to do those inputs in the middle of a match.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

One thing the video doesn't mention is that you can still do retreating c-stick aerials using Bidou, but you have to be frame perfect on inputs. The only thing I'm not sure if it can do is c-stick N-airs with momentum, but if it can there's no reason not to use Bidou, as long as you can consistently make 1-frame inputs for retreating aerials.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

One core issue with this.

Some tournaments do not allow pro controllers, so I feel as though most people will learn the GC stuff first if anything.

It's only slighty harder on a GC but still doable.

 

[DblCrest]

The button mapping is what would hold me back honestly. I don't have my own set up to even practise perfect pivots even.

 

[Trifroze]

This sort of thing can hold people back from competitive Smash, i.e. "I need to become intuitive with this specific awkward control scheme or else I'm handicapping myself and might as well not play at all". Interesting for those who don't mind it though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This sort of thing can hold people back from competitive Smash, i.e. "I need to become intuitive with this specific awkward control scheme or else I'm handicapping myself and might as well not play at all". Interesting for those who don't mind it though.

A lot of this you can do without needing to set it up as such.

This just makes it frame perfect.

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

Yay? New ways to do some of the stuff I can already do quicker and 'easier'? Some of the stuff exclusive to it looks incredible however. I really hope the Little Mac players implement this into their play style, seeing as you take every little thing you can get out of your attacks and movement that you can as a Mac player. I would love to see Sol, for example, with this kind of movement tech.
The biggest learning curve will probably be the button layouts, or are the button changes just to make it a little easier to hold down? Like say you decided you don't want to use the shoulder buttons cause you're stubborn or some crap like that and would rather try to claw it. Would it be possible to set a layout using ABXY? Food for thought.

 

[Trifroze]

A lot of this you can do without needing to set it up as such.

This just makes it frame perfect.

I'm aware, but without this the learning process is gradual, with this it's a single step and ultimately what you have to do if you really want to make use of these things consistently.

 

[OshaHott]

I'm aware, but without this the learning process is gradual, with this it's a single step and ultimately what you have to do if you really want to make use of these things consistently.

Wait, TRIFROZE IS HERE!? Well damn! And also, I made this thread becasue I know I won't even be attempting this any time soon, but I expected a lot more to agree with me. Wow, never realized how far the smsh community would go for bettering their gameplay! ^.^

 

[ReroRero]

I really need to see this tech in a real situation

 

[OshaHott]

I really need to see this tech in a real situation

Same. And I would need to know how actually difficult it is to get used to. Hm... Now thinking about it, I might give it a try. But when ZeRo picks it up, HA! Good luck to anyone else trying to win a tournament!

 

[Mizzy Moe]

I don't know if I'll be tryin to use it but I for sure see a lot of potential in it. I only have a gamepad to use it on but it still just feels weird to use. I probably will learn it at least a lil more consistently but not too much unless it catches on a lot which I could see happening if people get used to the weird control scheme.

 

[HFlash]

My big concern with this is that it might get patched out. Would be a huge shame to dedicate so much time getting used to new controllers, on a new controller, just to have it removed in a few months.

 

[Pyr]

Am I the only one not really seeing the point? Is it consistency or something? Optimized Extended Dash Dance and the instant wall jump are the things that look most useful out of the things made easier, but I don't see anything else that isn't already possible/already being done/impracticable, or stuff to be done between opponent's stocks. I mean... Even the arial control is already possible, even on the Smash-Stick.

If it helps people, then it's all well and good. People getting better is people getting better after all. I just know I won't find a need and this is already being overhyped as a revolution when it's just a controller setup, same as every other setup.

 

[Jams.]

Uhh wow, pretty much everyone.

I have to disagree with this in practice. Learning this highly unconventional control set-up comes with a huge opportunity cost. For some characters which don't benefit greatly from this technique ( might be the worst at using it), it would be a better investment to dedicate your practice to improving other aspects of your gameplay rather than getting used to wonky controls.

My big concern with this is that it might get patched out. Would be a huge shame to dedicate so much time getting used to new controllers, on a new controller, just to have it removed in a few months.

This technique takes advantage of Smash 4's buffering system (see Shaya's post), so I doubt it'd be very easy to patch out. Changes to the buffering system would do a whole lot more than just remove this one technique. It doesn't look problematic for competitive gameplay anyway, so I don't see why Nintendo would feel the need to patch it out.

 

[Parsec]

I really need to see this tech in a real situation

Fairly certain Ranai already uses it. Hence his ability to pp so easily across stages, and his flower pot tosses at ledge.

 

[another1]

Fairly certain Ranai already uses it. Hence his ability to pp so easily across stages, and his flower pot tosses at ledge.

ranai uses a default GC controller setup so he doesnt do any biduo tech, just normal stuff

 

[Tizio Random]

Ok, now I'm so pissed. I discussed about the original japanese video and everyone was like "lmao this is dumb and useless" and now it is considered a possible game-changing mechanic? What the hell.

By the way, I've tested on Rosalina and, for now, I don't see too many applications for her but I'm glad to be proved wrong. But I can see some characters like Fox, Falcon, Sheik and Greninja benefit from this. More or less like wavedash in Melee benefits more other characters than, to say, Jigglypuff or Peach. Not saying it's useless, just less useful.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm aware, but without this the learning process is gradual, with this it's a single step and ultimately what you have to do if you really want to make use of these things consistently.

Agreed.

I can see this putting Little Mac as well as FE chars entire tiers above where we see them now.

 

[2fast]

So, what characters do you guys think would benefit the most from bidou techs if mastered?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

I sat in the training room for awhile messing with this and it was absolutely INSANE. I could instantly perfect pivot across stages with no problems and the amount of movement options I gained access to was ludicrous. Sadly I've been playing Ryu lately and there is no way to accommodate for tilt stick with Bidou :/

The button mapping may turn people away from it but I STRONGLY think people should just turn on their Wii U and mess around in the training room with it. It felt like Smash 4 got rocketed 4 years into its meta game future when I was messing with this with players just casually PPing across stages and I strongly believe that Bidou could be Smash 4s future. Tilt stick using characters may get left in the dust thought.

Seriously everyone, go in training mode and give it shot! I promise your minds will be blown just as mine was.

Although I do agree some characters will benefit from this more than others.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I doubt Ryu at high level will use this as tilt stick is essentially a must for him at this point.

I can see Cloud being even more monstrous with perfect dash dancing, combined with perfect pivot cross slashes in footsies and perfect pivot dtilt slides to counter poke empty jump-ins and whiffed short hop approaches. Not to mention perfect pivot f-smashes to bait and punish the smallest whiffs.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I doubt Ryu at high level will use this as tilt stick is essentially a must for him at this point.

I can see Cloud being even more monstrous with perfect dash dancing, combined with perfect pivot cross slashes in footsies and perfect pivot dtilt slides to counter poke empty jump-ins and whiffed short hop approaches. Not to mention perfect pivot f-smashes to bait and punish the smallest whiffs.

I agree but this control scheme seems wildly unwieldly and like, I'm not sure how efficient or effective it would be on anything but a Pro Controller and since the majority uses GC controllers it's a bit of an issue.

It's cool though, I just don't see it catching on because of how weird it is.

Also having it disable tilt stick is basically a killer for me unfortunately with how momentum is affected. Lost potential sadly.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So the fundamental mechanic that makes bidou work is simply that keeping your "Special Move" command held down blocks the "Special Move" input of C-Stick [when set to special]. As a result it'll only register a one-frame dash input?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Pac-Man gets a way to spam Dash Attack even more, but he doesn't have the mobility specs or the range to get something out of the PP stuff.
But maybe PP + Hydrant water can give him that.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't get it, why the hell do you even need that specific control scheme if it seemed to boil down to "Hold the Special Button while you do stuff with the Second Stick also set to Special".
And it's not like I can even train this, I still play Smash Beta.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Fighting a Bidou master looks scary

 

[Xermo]

I don't get it, why the hell do you even need that specific control scheme if it seemed to boil down to "Hold the Special Button while you do stuff with the Second Stick also set to Special".
And it's not like I can even train this, I still play Smash Beta.

You need both thumbs. And means of accessing the attack buttons, something of which can't be done on a pro controller without giving up the right stick.

 

[wedl!!]

I don't get it, why the hell do you even need that specific control scheme if it seemed to boil down to "Hold the Special Button while you do stuff with the Second Stick also set to Special".
And it's not like I can even train this, I still play Smash Beta.

These techs already exist and are fully possible with any control scheme. Bidou just makes it frame perfect.

 

[Pazzo.]

For reference, here's a Samus player who's been using this for a while.

 

[Lichmassacre]

I'm sorry but I don't see this tech catching on at all, maybe professional levels it will but I don't see it. Who would want to switch half their control scheme up just to play the game they once could play at a competitive level? I can see people practicing this over and over but besides the fact that GameCube controls are the norm and the fact you have to change your muscle memory, who knows, maybe Sakurai will attempt to patch this out in secret as we weren't told about 1.1.5 either.

 

[lmntolp]

Ok, now I'm so pissed. I discussed about the original japanese video and everyone was like "lmao this is dumb and useless" and now it is considered a possible game-changing mechanic? What the hell.

I feel exactly the same way. I guess it's just the way the information was presented this time is more popular.

A couple months ago when I saw the original Japanese video, I tried to make bidou work with gamecube controller and after 3 hours I became pretty happy with special on L, attack on Z, and shield on R, so bidou is definitely viable for gamecube. I don't think the difficulty of changing controls is the main barrier for use of bidou in the long term, since Japanese players have known about this for many months. The ultimate reasons this won't become a universal technique, imo, are that you lose a-stick forspacing aerials, and you may lose frames having to turn off bidou before using specials. For example, I stopped using bidou for pikachu because I have to be ready to quick attack at any time, and constantly holding L felt like I always had to turn off the safety before QA.

Out of the characters I play, cloud made the most use of bidou. He benefits greatly from PP tilts and ground movement tricks in general. He also doesn't spam specials, especially while limit is active, so temporarily losing the B button is fine. You can cancel limit charge with ZL, so activating bidou is extremely easy and safe. Little mac probably benefits the most from bidou, as well as any characters with good ground games and don't rely on specials much in neutral. Some characters like robin actually need the a-stick, so bidou is a downgrade for them.

Interesting thing to note is that B-stick by itself has some advantages for wavebouncing while bidou is inactive. Probably best for something like ZSS plasma whip or pikachu thunder off the edge.

 

[KidNeedler]

All I saw was Pikachu not trying to punish anything then SD. lol

Not to mention, Pro controllers are banned in most, if not all, tournaments. Although, I don't see this being difficult to do on the GC controller.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Imagine if that Samus had a REAL ground game with spaced utilts, jabs and ftilts.

Scary how strong the control game would have been.

And yeah I think Cloud, ZSS and Little Mac get the most out of this. Then probably Greninja and Bayonetta.

Also a new control scheme only takes a few days to master. Talk like this is basically the difference between those that talk and those that win tournaments.

Too hard?

lol. Do you people not understand humans have landed on the damn moon decades ago? This is nothing in comparison.