Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[Calvonta "Calvo" parker]

Mkay. I need help on teh MU and how to deal with it. Can anyone help me with that?

 

[StarGalaxy777]

I have a small question regarding Ike's A>A>A combo

It seems like a almost invincible wall and what should I do when a Ike is doing that?

 

[Myollnir]

Yeah his Jab is an enormous threat. Just avoid being at the Jab range :/
You can try to SDI too.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Jab1 does have invincibility on it; there isn't a lot you can do.

Squirtle doesn't have much range to deal with it, so it's a great pain. He should focus on landing a U-Throw to prevent Ike from being able to do that.

I think Ivysaur can B-Air out-of-shield on reaction if we are facing away from Ike.

Charizard should be able to U-Smash out-of-shield and shieldgrab if he's not perfectly spaced.

 

[StarGalaxy777]

Yeah his Jab is an enormous threat. Just avoid being at the Jab range :/
You can try to SDI too.

I figured it was a threat (looks like a staple move)

Jab1 does have invincibility on it; there isn't a lot you can do.

Squirtle doesn't have much range to deal with it, so it's a great pain. He should focus on landing a U-Throw to prevent Ike from being able to do that.

I think Ivysaur can B-Air out-of-shield on reaction if we are facing away from Ike.

Charizard should be able to U-Smash out-of-shield and shieldgrab if he's not perfectly spaced.

Note taken, I know squirt took alot of hit concerning his jab and Ivy Bair outranges him? There we go with the Zard Usmash being a good utility move

 

[Myollnir]

His jab doesn't have any invincibility frames, does it?

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

LMFAO?

I know Ike's jab is good but, invincibility? What in the...

 

[Myollnir]

According to this : http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitIke.php
It doesn't have any.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I am pretty sure there is something similar going on. It might be transcendent priority, or just a really large disjointed hitbox, but, I've definitely been told it's something that can't be challenged.

 

[StarGalaxy777]

So it doesn't invincibility? But just has alot of priority

 

[Myollnir]

http://i38.tinypic.com/14mdvux.gif

Just a large hitbox.

It is worth noting that his Jab1 comes out on Frame 3

 

[shinhed-echi]

Question.

So I've settled for making PT my new main for a number of reasons. (One of them is because I'm tired of sticking to ONE character. XD)

I've got a good grasp on him, but I feel that if I don't use the Wii+chuck combination, I'll never be able to use him at his prime (mainly for Squirtle).

How important is his Hydroplanning (name escapes me) to Squirtle's metagame? Is it absolutely essential (enough to warrant me changing into Wii+chuck combination?).


Since I don't use the R button to shield, I thought it'd be a good idea to turn it into an alternate JUMP button to try hydroplanning more efficiently (than curling my index finger into an ungodly angle to reach Y or X). But the timing completely eludes me.



Also.. I would love to see a guide on Ivysaur's tethering so I know for sure when a tether done outside the platform will work, and when it will not. The only thing keeping me from trying PT for tourneys is my lack of knowledge on his tethering.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hydroplaning isn't very important. It can net you some useful punishes at times, but is otherwise not that great.

As long as you're not using just the Wii Remote, Hydroplaning is simple. All you need is a movement stick and an Attack button. You could probably even do it on a Wii remote.

As far as when/where you can tether, just mess around with it. It's a large circle-ish area, with the left-rightmost points being adjacent to the ledge. It's not difficult to get a feel for it.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Just want to know if anyone has PT frame data.

Want to look at Charizard Dsmash being a good grab release trick or cover options of opponent coming from the ledge, and Ivysaur's Bair is a frame trap(can beat Spotdodges, Air dodges, Olimar whistle).

Also if all of the pokemon's Dtilts and Dsmashes shield poke.

 

[T-block]

this thread is pretty cool

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181511

 

[NinjaKnight]

Sorry if I'm necro threading. But I'm curious about a PT advanced technique...

Can any of PT's pokes to a dash attack cancel? Much like Link or snake can? It would be amazing with Ivysaur, and pretty good with Squirtle & Charizard as well? Is it doable?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Sorry if I'm necro threading. But I'm curious about a PT advanced technique...

Can any of PT's pokes to a dash attack cancel? Much like Link or snake can? It would be amazing with Ivysaur, and pretty good with Squirtle & Charizard as well? Is it doable?

Every character in the game can Dash Attack cancel with a pivot grab and an Up-Smash, but most characters don't get anything useful out of it.

I assume you mean the slide on your U-Smash, though, which none of PT's Pokèmon can do. Charizard's actually has the opposite effect; doing a regular running U-Smash causes it to slide a decent amount, but a DACUS causes Charizard to stay in place.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

If only Ivysaur could do a Dacus like Falco or Snake. Then again that would be too funny XD.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If only Ivysaur could do a Dacus like Falco or Snake. Then again that would be too funny XD.

Ivysaur's would be awful, because it would be so easy to shield/move away from, due to how long it was.

If Charizard could do it, that would be ridiculous, even if the strong hit never worked. Charizard would be so damn safe.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

The way I'm imagining it must be different. I would think you would use the Dacus to punish characters landing away without a DJ or to punish in general. Of course I wouldn't mind the extra mobility though unlike Snake Dacus, it would have commitment that wouldn't be worth it in most situations.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The way I'm imagining it must be different. I would think you would use the Dacus to punish characters landing away without a DJ or to punish in general. Of course I wouldn't mind the extra mobility though unlike Snake Dacus, it would have commitment that wouldn't be worth it in most situations.

No. If someone is landing far away from you, it still takes 26 frames to come out. Either they airdodge at a height where they would completely avoid the attack, would just fastfall and hit you before U-Smash came out, or they would B-Reverse to avoid it and probably punish you.

If they can get to the ground beforehand, they can shield and punish you. U-Smash isn't even close to being safe on shield.

All the useful DACUSes have hitboxes that come out very quickly while covering a lot of space and distances with those hitboxes out. People can't react to a DACUS if they're actively afraid of a poke or grab. A theoretical Ivysaur U-Smash wouldn't have any of those traits going for it.

 

[T-block]

he's not talking about using it like snake's DACUS though

squirtle's hydroplane isn't safe on shield, nor does it have a fast hitbox, but it's still useful

 

[TheReflexWonder]

he's not talking about using it like snake's DACUS though

squirtle's hydroplane isn't safe on shield, nor does it have a fast hitbox, but it's still useful

I know, which is why it's bad. The stuff I mentioned is the only reason that the average DACUS is useful.

Squirtle's hydroplane is decently useful because the hitbox is enormous and stays out for a while. Ivysaur's U-Smash disappears really quickly.

Also, Squirtle's hydroplaned U-Smash is safer on shield then Ivysaur's theoretical sliding U-Smash.

 

[T-block]

that doesn't make it bad... it means the situations where it's useful are different

wtf is a theoretical sliding u-smash anyways. what if ivysaur slid as much as squirtle or snake did.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

that doesn't make it bad... it means the situations where it's useful are different

wtf is a theoretical sliding u-smash anyways. what if ivysaur slid as much as squirtle or snake did.

If the amount of time you find yourself in a situation where it is useful is very, very small, the move gets punished badly if it doesn't work out, and the payoff isn't even that great, I would totally call it bad.

I didn't want to call it an Ivysaur DACUS, because DACUS can be like Diddy's distance/slide, or Wario's, or Charizard's. I was referring to if it slid as much as Squirtle or Snake.

 

[T-block]

it is not uncommon for forward hydroplane to be your best option, or at least an option to be strongly considered

that's not what i would call "bad" =\

 

[CoonTail]

Sorry to be a little late to the party here, but I have to agree with T-block in the fact that while forward hydroplane may not be safe on shield it still is not a "bad" option. It may be applied in incorrect situations but forward hydroplane does have quite a few applications for itself. Especially in MU's where characters need to create distance from Squirtle in attempts to reset and slow down his momentum.

Also last I checked if you forward hydroplaned and it was either Power-Shielded or shielded within the vicinity of the ledge, Squirtle would be pushed off stage and onto the ledge. Meaning that it will not be punished...correct me if I am wrong but this has happened to me quite regularly after using forward hydroplanes applications in game.

 

[Myollnir]

Yep, that's the same thing with Dash Attack Shield Cancel. It also works with FSmash. You can jump/aerial before grabbing the ledge.

 

[CoonTail]

Yep, that's the same thing with Dash Attack Shield Cancel. It also works with FSmash. You can jump/aerial before grabbing the ledge.

Myo is this in regards to my statement, also can you elloborate a little more on your statement "It also works with F-smash"?

 

[Myollnir]

If you fsmash with Squirtle (and I assume Ivy and Zard works too since they move their hurtbox during the smash) while an opponent is shielding at the edge of a platform, you fall of the platform with no lag.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Sorry to be a little late to the party here, but I have to agree with T-block in the fact that while forward hydroplane may not be safe on shield it still is not a "bad" option. It may be applied in incorrect situations but forward hydroplane does have quite a few applications for itself. Especially in MU's where characters need to create distance from Squirtle in attempts to reset and slow down his momentum.

Also last I checked if you forward hydroplaned and it was either Power-Shielded or shielded within the vicinity of the ledge, Squirtle would be pushed off stage and onto the ledge. Meaning that it will not be punished...correct me if I am wrong but this has happened to me quite regularly after using forward hydroplanes applications in game.

Disagree. It almost always works well against people who don't see it coming/don't know what to expect. It's easy to avoid by itself unless the character has horrible aerial mobility and no really good way to safely move away while landing (which is probably just Ivysaur and Ganondorf, if anything).

The only ways I see it functioning well are to hit someone on a platform (which is a weak hit and has very little reward) and to catch someone getting off the ledge (far and away the most useful option).

This is another way, but nobody ever uses it--Hydroplane U-Smash and hydroplane D-Smash make for a nice standalone mix-up, since airdodging characters potentially have to airdodge our U-Smash way in advance, and D-Smash shrinks our character model.

Is hydroplane D-Smash safe on shield if we slide past them?

 

[CoonTail]

Is hydroplane D-Smash safe on shield if we slide past them?

Very rarely, D-smash has a decent amount of cooldown so unless you hit them with D-smash at the beginning of your hydroplane it will most likely be punished. I personally only prefer hydroplaned D-smash near the edge since the angle of knockback it has is down and out.

I will get back to foward hydroplaned U-smash later, but honestly Luis it sounds like you've just been discouraged by it and maybe have some impractical uses for it or something. I mean as a mix-up I land it on Vinnie a decent amount and that says a lot figuring he fights me with 2/3 the cast along with having EXTENSIVE PT MU knowledge.

So get in the lab on that forward hydroplane man!!

 

[T-block]

Disagree. It almost always works well against people who don't see it coming/don't know what to expect. It's easy to avoid by itself unless the character has horrible aerial mobility and no really good way to safely move away while landing (which is probably just Ivysaur and Ganondorf, if anything).

The only ways I see it functioning well are to hit someone on a platform (which is a weak hit and has very little reward) and to catch someone getting off the ledge (far and away the most useful option).

This is another way, but nobody ever uses it--Hydroplane U-Smash and hydroplane D-Smash make for a nice standalone mix-up, since airdodging characters potentially have to airdodge our U-Smash way in advance, and D-Smash shrinks our character model.

Is hydroplane D-Smash safe on shield if we slide past them?

f-tilt/n-air and read the tech roll away

punishing careless use of projectiles (link's boomerang, lucas' pk fire, diddy's banana pull)

just to name a couple

 

[CoonTail]

punishing careless use of projectiles (link's boomerang, lucas' pk fire, diddy's banana pull)

just to name a couple

To continue this you can punish Snake grenade toss', pit's arrow(and duck them as he fires), fox + falco laser spam(falcos requires you to be already hydroplaning before he gets the second laser off), ZSS' charge laser.

More of my point here is that regularly if you can duck a projectile it means that you will be able to get under it also using the forward hydroplane.

 

[Zwarm]

I sometimes use the running hydroplane u-smash (not the shell turnaround version, I forget what you call it) to escape from slower characters or as a quick escape against characters with no projectiles to punish me for it. Am I the only one who does that?

 

[Myollnir]

You mean... When you're usmashing, Squirtle lowers his hurtbox?

 

[CoonTail]

I would imagine so because I have managed to forward hydroplane underneath pits arrows on a regular basis......

 

[T-block]

yeah he does. pit needs to curve his arrows down to hit squirtle i'm pretty sure

haven't you guys seen the vid where squirtle rides link's boomerang under his arrow and u-smashes him?

 

[CoonTail]

Lol you mean the vid typh made that is titled squirtle is small....

 

[Myollnir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyjcLTbQzcQ Lmao!