Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

I could use the actual .pacs.

 

[Rizen]

How should squirtle approach characters that shut down his(?) hydroplaning? Specifically ZSS, she's giving me trouble.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Be Charizard.

Seriously, though, I actually find using Watergun to screw with her spacing helps. An approaching watergun, followed by a grab can help getting some momentum, just don't be obvious.

Don't have too much experience in the MU though.

 

[CoonTail]

How should squirtle approach characters that shut down his(?) hydroplaning? Specifically ZSS, she's giving me trouble.

Well first off by grabbing her armor pieces in the beginning she has a much harder time shutting down hydroplaning because squirtle's glide toss is essentially a hydroplane. But overall against ZSS your gonna have to be a bit more aerial than grounded. Hydroplaning is hard to effectivlely start up against ZSS. One of the easier ways to get some room for it is to use up throw to get some time then pressure her as she attempts to land. Platform based levels also always help with getting a chance to open up some hydroplanning. But the big thing about ZSS is she has NO DIAGONAL HITBOXES......so use of squirtles great aerial mobility and knowledge of ZSS's inability to hit diagonally can deff make this a difficult matchup for ZSS.

 

[T-block]

From my experience, Charizard gets wrecked by ZSS unless she's being stupid with her side-b, which can let you get grabs. Otherwise, it's touch.

Anyways, first of all, not sure why you're talking about hydroplaning as if Squirtle is helpless without it. I also don't really see how ZSS shuts down Squirtle's movement (I think DK does it a lot better, for example). I do think approaching from the air is the better option against ZSS though.

 

[Geenareeno]

I'm having a bit of trouble approaching falco, just as Squirtle though. I know you can crouch walk the lasers but I just get phantasm'd or F smashed or something because you can only d-tilt out of crouch. Should I jump, sheild, or walk and ps them.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You can shield out of crouch, you can FSmash out of crouch, you can USmash out of crouch, you can FTilt out of crouch, you can jump+aerial out of crouch, you can jab out of crouch (just hit your grab button while in a crouch, it becomes a jab for some odd reason) You can grab while in a crouch (L+A).

 

[Geenareeno]

Alright, that will help, thanks.

 

[Ingoro]

Aside that, you have no trouble approaching falco as ivy or chari? that's nice.

 

[Geenareeno]

Haha yeah I realized that, Squirtle is the easiest. But as Ivy you can get in range and punish with leaves until he starts to use reflector. Charizard is terrible. You can't jump out of them or something, it's ********. Gotta sheild/roll/glide.

 

[CoonTail]

As zard you gotta further utilize what I spoke about recently in the Zard tactical discussion....it is really hard to get in on falco but sidestepping lasers, air dodging through them, and using rock smash counter attack are the main way to get through.

Overall falco's wall he puts up in front of Zard is gonna be used to force you into situations where falco is at advatange along with just camping you....so read the situation and use proper responses so that hopefully you can force him into a situation where your at advantage.

 

[Killanator90]

Here is a match with me against a snake player. I would like some honest critique on what i did wrong and how i can approve my game. Who ever doesn't mind watching it and giving there critique i would really appreciate it and thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrYcBXqrCEE

 

[femmetriforce]

Hi there I have a question...ehhh

is there a way to escape from Bowser's standing grab on Ivysaur? This is really annoying, and should be illegal on tournaments, so I'm asking, is legal this standing grab?

 

[Phiddlesticks]

just input jumps while mashing, bowser has 9 frames between his pummels where youll air release if you mash out at that time

 

[Steeler]

does that apply to all characters assuming yes but we all know what assuming does

 

[TheReflexWonder]

does that apply to all characters assuming yes but we all know what assuming does

It does apply to all characters, if you mean by pressing jump in those nine frames will let you air release.

 

[Zigsta]

Yeah, just jump release. It's not an infinite if you do that.

 

[Steeler]

wonder what the jump release frame windows are for pt...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

wonder what the jump release frame windows are for pt...

This is what I've heard before, though I don't know how reliable it is. Someone feel free to check and correct.

Squirtle has three frames out of 21 in his perfect pummel rhythm that can be air-released out of (hence, Ness technically has a 1-in-7 chance of jumping out each time).

Charizard doesn't have any jump-release frames in a perfect pummel.

I'm not at all sure about Ivysaur.

 

[T-block]

I did testing on this before, and I ended up confusing the hell out of myself.

I'll get back to testing one time... it will vary based on fatigue and stale moves. I think fully fatigued Charizard at certain staleness cannot force a ground release.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

i dont know exact frames for anything but isnt ivysaur's pummel ridiculously slow?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah. Honestly I always BThrow, unless I'm trying to get a bullet seed.

 

[DellSmashman]

How good is Charizard at planking?

 

[T-block]

He can't really plank. He can't stay safe when he throws out his moves.

 

[CoonTail]

Thanks for answering that T-block I saw that and did not know how to feel.

I think there is a major misconception with zard's up-b and it's super armor. For some reason people think zard has super armor on the whole thing. While his up-b is good, that is not the case with super armor.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I dunno. I think planking Charizard is alright against most characters. Hardly impenetrable, but it's not as easy as knocking Charizard away, for sure. The fact that U-Air stays out so long helps, and having two mid-air jumps prevents you from getting the ledge taken from you.

 

[T-block]

He lacks the quick moves to cover his huge frame though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Charizard usually only has to cover his head, though, which U-Air does quite well, especially since it stays out for almost the entire animation--

 

[T-block]

You're still in a compromising position if you get the ledge taken though. There are 18 frames of cooldown on u-air, so it's very possible. And when it happens, he needs to cover more than just his head. Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Scatz]

What about using Bair to space people rushing in to attack Zard? I've had some success planking with that (not for long though). The method I'm referring to is Bair + Dj away then regrab ledge.

 

[CoonTail]

The problem is if they powershield your b-air the time it takes to double jump is enough time to be punished. Unfortunatly that's not to safe an option.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well, the idea is that U-Air stays out forever, so unless the opponent has a very disjointed hitbox, they'll have to take great care to get around it. For characters with the range or mobility to get around it, depending on the attack, Rock Smash can come out and "counter" the move, B-Air can outrange it, and Flamethrower back on the stage can keep some characters away for longer before you go back to the ledge.

Also, there's not much harm in just using an empty mid-air jump to gauge your opponent's actions, a la Meta Knight. Because you have an extra jump left and your Up-B, you should be fine getting hit by most aerials (which isn't even that likely) if you make sure to DI correctly.

 

[CoonTail]

This is all true luis....I figured you were saying use u-air because of how long it lasted along with how hard it is to get to Zards hurtbox underneath U-air.

As far as rocksmash goes....offstage getting a counter to go off seems like a weird spacing situation. Using an empty jump is not bad but still I get more use from jump b-air, second jump rocksmash/ flamethrower to cover people around the edge.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

With Rock Smash, it's best to jump away and wavebounce it to the stage. Usually the same with Flamethrower. Unpredictability is key.

Rock Smash has the potential to get good trades, too, so even if you get punished, it can be worth it for certain moves. It also beats a spotdodge near the ledge.

 

[T-block]

Oh, I use double jump b-air, Rock Smash, Flamethrower, etc. a lot when dealing with ledge pressure. It's only for that though - dealing with ledge pressure. Planking to me implies that you WANT to stay on the ledge, and are aiming to score hits on your opponent while they attempt to remove you from it. Charizard would definitely not want to stay on the ledge =\

They don't have to maneuver around Charizard's u-air. They just have to wait for the hitbox frames to end, and then they have 18 frames before Charizard can act again to grab the ledge.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Oh, I use double jump b-air, Rock Smash, Flamethrower, etc. a lot when dealing with ledge pressure. It's only for that though - dealing with ledge pressure. Planking to me implies that you WANT to stay on the ledge, and are aiming to score hits on your opponent while they attempt to remove you from it. Charizard would definitely not want to stay on the ledge =\

They don't have to maneuver around Charizard's u-air. They just have to wait for the hitbox frames to end, and then they have 18 frames before Charizard can act again to grab the ledge.

Dealing with ledge pressure is all you really need to do to plank, though. If they take the ledge from you, you just use your other mid-air jump and time your Up-B so that you get super armor when they gain the ability to attack you. Simple as that.

 

[CoonTail]

Yea but I think point Luis is showing here is that it basically really could only be MK who could get off stage wait for u-air to finish and be able to travel that far down to punish the U-air.

Zard sinks pretty far down if you u-air after dropped or letting go of the edge. So 18 frames or not the other character has to have quite the aerial capability to follow you that far down and still avoid hitboxes in order to punish zard.

 

[T-block]

What happens when they don't steal the ledge right away? Aren't you in serious danger of being edgehogged, or hit hard if you do manage to land on the stage?

It's not safe, and risk outweighs the reward imo. But I'm too lazy to get the frame data out atm, so I'll just say I'll try it out next time I play =)

 

[CoonTail]

I can understand the worry of being punished T-block but it does require quite a bit of determination of the player coming off the edge.

At which point they still have to worry about putting themselves in a comprimising position by chasing you out like that.

Luis I do wavebounce rocksmash quite a bit but this seems like a real nice idea after my first jump to get back. Which still reminds me does anyone remember the post I made a while back about wavebouncing rocksmash. If you wavebounce it, you can manage to have zard in the middle of the boulder so the shrapnel breaks covering both sides of zard. I might be able to get a vid up but I wonder what options this gives us when coming back to the stage?

 

[T-block]

So I did some messing around in frame advance today trying to figure out our jab locks. Nothing encouraging at all =(

We're something like... five frames away from being able to roll behind to continue Squirtle's jab lock, but that's with a fresh jab and full power. It's seven frames at full fatigue and a stale jab, which is when it would be important. There's a lot of cooldown on jab1... a buffered roll doesn't come out until frame 17 =(

I cannot figure out why Charizard can only jab lock twice before the jab no longer locks. Seriously no clue.

Bah.