Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[T-block]

Regarding the buffering after death...

Has anyone noticed it happens WAY more often on the last stock? I can't remember the last time it's happened on the first or second stock (if it has at all)...

 

[Zigsta]

Pretty sure you did it your second stock against me a few times, T-block.

 

[T-block]

Nope. But I guess I'll check the replays when I get them.

I've been noticing it for about a month now. If it happened on second stock, I would have taken note I'm sure.

 

[Zigsta]

Sounds like you need to get better at taking notes, foo!

 

[Dre89]

Yo peeps, I was just wondering if someone could explain to me what an instant tether is. I know there's a video on it, but I can't load the video. Thanks in advance.

 

[T-block]

Run off the ledge with Ivysaur. As soon as you're in the air, hit up-b. Ivysaur can tether the ledge from this position, and will pop up two body heights-ish above the ledge. You can then press A to snap the the ledge.

 

[Dre89]

Thanks. I thought that's what it was. I'm still unsure what the benefits of it are though.

 

[T-block]

It can be useful for edgehogging while avoiding the opponent's up-b hitbox.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

it also looks cool

 

[T-block]

uguu~

Spoiler

amirite twinx?

 

[WindMajor]

What's up PT mains?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

I think this got lost in the last page, lol. I hope you guys don't mind me quoting myself again.

 

[T-block]

1) Norfair is great. The platform layout enhances Squirtle's aerial strength and mitigates the grab release weakness. Ivysaur also loves the platform configuration here (she likes platforms in general), and the stage leads more often than other stages to situations where the opponent is above Ivysaur, which Ivy loves. Charizard is meh... the stage doesn't allow him to abuse his great dash speed - not his best stage imo. Hazards are great for PT in general, thanks to the strong grab game of Squirtle and Charizard.

2) It's pretty solid overall for PT imo. It's probably his best stage against Dedede, for one. That's the only matchup where this stage really sticks out.

3) Squirtle's mobility is great on this stage, and he can also camp here if he wants to. Ivysaur will probably be looking to control space, which she can do very well on Norfair. Bottom platform is definitely the best place for her to be.

4) I would probably CP to Norfair quite a bit if it were legal. I would say that its legalization is definitely a positive thing for PT.

 

[CoonTail]

^
this.

Great writeup T-Block 100% agree

 

[WindMajor]

I guess you're hinting that the stage is overall "Good" then for PT, instead of it depending a lot on specific matchups?

 

[CoonTail]

There is deffinitly a major decision to be made matchup wise, but in general I would like to say for the most part Norfair is a pretty solid CP for PT.

 

[T-block]

Yes. It's definitely a strong stage overall.

 

[StarGalaxy777]

1) Norfair is great. The platform layout enhances Squirtle's aerial strength and mitigates the grab release weakness. Ivysaur also loves the platform configuration here (she likes platforms in general), and the stage leads more often than other stages to situations where the opponent is above Ivysaur, which Ivy loves. Charizard is meh... the stage doesn't allow him to abuse his great dash speed - not his best stage imo. Hazards are great for PT in general, thanks to the strong grab game of Squirtle and Charizard.

2) It's pretty solid overall for PT imo. It's probably his best stage against Dedede, for one. That's the only matchup where this stage really sticks out.

3) Squirtle's mobility is great on this stage, and he can also camp here if he wants to. Ivysaur will probably be looking to control space, which she can do very well on Norfair. Bottom platform is definitely the best place for her to be.

4) I would probably CP to Norfair quite a bit if it were legal. I would say that its legalization is definitely a positive thing for PT.

Um question


Does the unity ruleset only apply to aib because norfair wasnt part of it or is the unity ruleset kinda fanmade? I miss norfair.....

 

[Rizen]

Q what's the PT vs Wario MU ratio? A Wario 2 stocked me .

 

[T-block]

Um question


Does the unity ruleset only apply to aib because norfair wasnt part of it or is the unity ruleset kinda fanmade? I miss norfair.....

As far as I know, there are no plans to use Unity ruleset on the AiB ladder.

Q what's the PT vs Wario MU ratio? A Wario 2 stocked me .

Wario decent advantage, but not unwinnable imo.

 

[StarGalaxy777]

As far as I know, there are no plans to use Unity ruleset on the AiB ladder.

Then whats the current ruleset, perhaps i missed the rules for right now?

 

[T-block]

I dunno, I don't play on AiB... shouldn't be that hard to find.

 

[Célja]

I'm a fellow PT main and I was wondering:

Is it a good idea to start off with Ivysaur?

Because the way i see it, you're going from worst pokemon to best.
Ivysaur -> Charizard -> Squirtle at the last stock

 

[T-block]

You're forgetting about a very important move: down-b

 

[CoonTail]

Yea falcon as usual T-Block hits the key point......Falcon you have to understand the start of your match you most likely want a very strong one on, and thats why Squirtle is the choice most of the time. Secondly Zard then Ivy solely because you can only use these two as starts for match-ups that are made by Ivy/Zard or you feel very comfortable with.

Then within the stock you have to begin to analyze if/when you need to switch and believe all of us you NEED to switch even if you don't believe so. Fatigue is bad but not the worst if you acknowledge the serious effects it has, but these effects can be minimized with proper play. Switching keeps a lot of power and knockback which are two things that must be maintained in order for PT to work.

So in short lead with the strong MU or most comfortable one for yourself and make sure you maintain control and pace based on your poke and it's fatigue level.

 

[T-block]

Regarding the buffering after death...

Has anyone noticed it happens WAY more often on the last stock? I can't remember the last time it's happened on the first or second stock (if it has at all)...

I just watched a vid where it happened again on the last stock.

Actually... maybe it's the switch from Charizard to Squirtle that causes it. When was the last time you saw Ivysaur or Charizard buffer a B-move? o.o

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm a fellow PT main and I was wondering:

Is it a good idea to start off with Ivysaur?

Because the way i see it, you're going from worst pokemon to best.
Ivysaur -> Charizard -> Squirtle at the last stock

Start with your best. You can switch safely after a KO, or after a D-Throw with Squirtle, a B-Throw with Ivysaur, or a D-Throw or F-Air from Charizard. You can also switch more easily on stages with lots of obstacles, such as Pokémon Stadium 1. There's also Zero Switching on Smashville and Rainbow Cruise.

It's a good idea to start off with Ivysaur against Donkey Kong, but that's about it.

 

[Rizen]

Qs What are PTs worst MUs and which pokemon should start for those, and what CPs are good?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Qs What are PTs worst MUs and which pokemon should start for those, and what CPs are good?

The thing to keep in mind is that your bad matchups are mostly there because two or more of the Pokémon lose outright, so being able to Baton Pass/Zero Switch is of the utmost importance.

Meta Knight. Charizard, I think...? Squirtle's not bad, either, but having the great ground speed helps a good deal. As for stages, ones that you can Zero Switch, I guess, but Meta Knight's going to molest you whether you like it or not.

Marth. Charizard, probably, because Charizard does okay at countering moves. Marth's short-hop F-Air can get shielded into a U-Smash out-of-shield. Marth doesn't get anything particularly nasty against Charizard, and you can juggle him well enough. I think reverse N-Air should work quite well to edgeguard him. As for a stage, I dunno. Think about it and tell me.

King Dedede. Charizard, probably. You have to camp for dear life, but you can keep him out pretty well. Long platforms are nice. Have you tried Yoshi's Island?

 

[T-block]

For MK, which pokemon I start depends a lot on the stage. I'd probably go Charizard for FD, but Squirtle on Lylat.

 

[CoonTail]

Yea the stage makes a huge change in the starters, against Marth I would start squirtle somewhere like battlefield but Zard on FD(if that ever happened). You have to identify with the weakness of the poke in the matchup and how a stage is going to help/hinder you.

 

[Aposl]

guys if you watched the last MGM you will see Charizards spike option off of Marth's forward air plank. Also something not shown in the vid is the ability to just grab the ledge off this technique which gives Squirtle great invincible follow ups like fair, nair, or dair...

 

[Célja]

Start with your best. You can switch safely after a KO, or after a D-Throw with Squirtle, a B-Throw with Ivysaur, or a D-Throw or F-Air from Charizard. You can also switch more easily on stages with lots of obstacles, such as Pokémon Stadium 1. There's also Zero Switching on Smashville and Rainbow Cruise.

It's a good idea to start off with Ivysaur against Donkey Kong, but that's about it.

Okay, thank you all for the tips and advice. Much appriciated.

 

[CoonTail]

I did see that aposl and I am going to mess around with it today because marth's love the drop off f-air option so between edgehogging with squirtle and d-airing with zard I think we have some real nice tools here.

Wouldn't this also allow Ivy to insta tether so for recoveries like wolf's or olimar's become an advatnage to us if we manage to shield an over the edge attack from either

 

[Rizen]

Q How should each pokemon deal with Jigglypuff's roll attack on stages without platforms? What's the Jiggly MU ratio?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Q How should each pokemon deal with Jigglypuff's roll attack on stages without platforms? What's the Jiggly MU ratio?

Do you mean Rollout? It's not troublesome to deal with.

Every character can just move away from Jigglypuff and toward the edge if there's enough space. In that case, you can simply shield it and punish them, since they'll have to turn around immediately after you shield it, giving you time to do whatever you want before they can come back at you from the opposite direction, like an Up-Smash out of shield or grab. Since Jigglypuff has to charge for a certain amount of time, you have plenty of time to set yourself up.

Pretty much anything with range beats it cleanly if timed well; Squirtle's F-Tilt, Ivysaur's D-Tilt, Charizard's various aerials and projectiles...

In the event that you have no platforms and you don't have enough space to do that (which doesn't really happen, but, for the sake of completion), Squirtle can simply jump over Jigglypuff so that he has enough time to do what I described above.

Ivysaur can throw a Razor Leaf and beat it with no problem. In the event that you have your mid-air jump while you're falling to the ground, but you don't have enough room to jump over Jigglypuff, jump away and try to time a Razor Leaf before you hit the ground. From that much distance, you can just dodge it if you see Jigglypuff release it early and Razor Leaf otherwise.

Charizard can use his mid-air jumps to go over her and do the first option mentioned. If you go above Jigglypuff, you can Flamethrower toward her and she can't really do anything to you. I'm not sure what happens if Jigglypuff uses Rollout and it goes through the rock on Rock Smash. If she tries to time it so that she hits you while you're landing, you can do a mid-air jump when you're close to the ground with an immediate D-Air; it'll hit her if she's underneath you.

If she's doing it from the air, pretty much anything beats it with decent timing. Run toward her and try to force her to release Rollout before she touches the ground, in that case.

 

[DellSmashman]

Just curious, how well does Squirtle do against King Dedede?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Just curious, how well does Squirtle do against King Dedede?

Depends on what you're doing.

Keeping him out when you have the lead? He does rather well with that. Between general pokes and the Hydrograb, Dedede has his work cut out for him, and Squirtle can punish Dedede's offense with nasty juggles that would normally be quite difficult to manage, due to how risky it is to get in on him.

Being forced to approach him? He suffers a great deal, since Squirtle's range leaves something to be desired, and every grab leads to a free 15% via Dedede's B-Throw, which is rough on Squirtle's livelihood. Squirtle also finds it difficult to KO Dedede, since his best opportunity to do so is managed by knocking him offstage and edgeguarding him, which requires you to get in his face on the ground.

It's a lot like Wario against Dedede, except that your ground game is useful (yay, F-Tilt), you juggle him a little better, and you have no reliable KO move.

 

[Aposl]

dedede comes down to you being WAY better than your opponent.I have expiramented with using all three. Squirtle to rack up damage, Ivy to KO then charizard as stock tank and percentage on the next stock, but it requires the PT main having SO much control over the whole match...

 

[Steeler]

landing bullet seed, even once, helps immensely in this matchup. ddd's options for getting away from it while facing you are horrendous. dair is unsafe on hit. fair is slow as hell. nair has little range. his best bet is to use his jumps to get away from you...most people won't try that, at least not the first time. but he is slow as hell so it is easy to chase with nair and uair. or even...bullet seed. thus setting up the game of cat/mouse (or dinoplant/penguin) again. beware the bair, it's his best attacking option by far. but it isn't too hard to see coming. should be able to punish with a bs or nair or something.

btw, i do not recommend usmash. even if you do correctly read an airdodge, ddd will most likely fastfall first, which is ridiculously fast and and will probably mean he is on the ground before you even release it. nair works much better, with good timing and positioning, it beats every option except dair (unsafe on hit). maybe not ff nair? depends. but that loses to bs. and nair is pretty meaty, so you can catch airdodges to the ground. hell, you can do the same thing with bs and not worry about nair/dair.

now that i think about it, against a smart opponent, you can empty hop and ff nair on your way down (to try and catch potential airdodges) a few times to encourage them to keep jumping...when they are down to only 1-2 jumps, bullet seed becomes a lot safer. be careful to stay away from bair range tho. directly underneath to slightly in front of ddd works.

if he is facing away from you, he will probably try to bair. i'd be interested in seeing how high he has to be before we can cancel bs and shield it in time. may not even be possible.

also watch for inhale, ddd likes to use it if you sit in your shield waiting for him to land.

on platform stages, the setup changes a bit, you don't worry about bair as much, but he can escape bs easier if there is a platform nearby. poke at ddd's feet above you with nair. it's quick enough (startup AND cooldown) that chasing jumps OoS is feasible, but requires fast reaction (and another jump you may or may not have). rolls are easier to react to, spot dodges can work but ddd will stay put so it only prolongs the situation. after a nair or 2, low shield = bs.

 

[Luigisama]

can ivysaur camp? I always wondered if he could.