Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[TheReflexWonder]

Yes, Squirtle's jab is worthless for canceling into other stuff.

Are you sure that Charizard's jab doesn't have multiple hitboxes, like many moves do? I know Luigi's jab has, like, three different hitboxes that do entirely different things.

Also, can someone test how fast Charizard's first jab can cancel into other things?

 

[T-block]

Hmm....it might, and then Charizard can't walk far enough to connect with the proper one in time, since Charizard's walk is so slow? That might be it.

 

[Rizen]

With char at least we could jab>jab>Fsmash, that smash is mighty. What jab lock setups does PT use?

 

[T-block]

Rock Smash tends to hit with the shards during the forced getup... damage wise Rock Smash > u-smash is way better out of jab reset.

Setups are edge slips and ceiling techs mostly. There's some low percent stuff like Squirtle's n-air, but it's not nearly as common.

 

[Zigsta]

Didn't Reflex test nair>jab lock a while back and found it wasn't reliable?

 

[T-block]

It's not reliable to use n-air on the other side to continue the jab lock.

N-air will go to jab lock if they miss the tech though... I mean... reliable isn't the word. It's not like n-air leads to a jab lock guaranteed lol

 

[CoonTail]

I remember Luis talking about how it was pretty difficult to use N-air to jab lock since you had to sour spot it and if you messed up at all you gave up the jab lock.

I wonder though if since T-block found that we cannot roll around the opponent to jab lock maybe w can possibly short hop sour spot n-air to pivot jab to continue it. I'm not sure how viable it is or is we originally tried to use this to continue the lock, but I would imagine it is worth a try testing.

As far as Zard's jab lock goes....Ive never seen it but I do believe that as luis stated, Zard's jab maybe have a couple different hit boxes. That being said I'm sure for a fact RS -> U-smash will be a better option out of jab lock, but f-smash if it really can be landed from force get up might a better kill option due to the ability to SDI out of U-smash.

Zard's jab I really am starting to find similar to DK's jab and how Will uses it. You jab once to pull them closer for a grab, but you can just finish the jab combo if they seem to see the grab coming. I've seen Will do it a lot with DK's jab one and it deff seems to work because I have been landing more grabs with Zard due to this.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

*EDIT* stupid new page

 

[DellSmashman]

Just thought I'd ask. What do you just typically agree/disagree from the outcomes of Pokemon Trainer in the BBR matchup chart?

 

[Geenareeno]

Donkey Kong is way better than 0 iirc. Idk why Luigi is 2 for us, and recently reflex said DDD gets ***** by zard yet it's -3 on the chart.

 

[Steeler]

ddd doesn't get ***** by zard, it's just that zard can camp ddd fairly well. if zard is losing then it is pretty bad.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah Zard for sure stands a good chance against Dedede.

 

[Zigsta]

Charizard was always my favorite Pokemon vs. D3.

 

[DellSmashman]

I think Squirtle should deserve some mention in this matchup.

 

[JOE!]

There any good uses for Zard's Ftilt over Dtilt?

 

[Zigsta]

Ftilt hits higher.

 

[JOE!]

true, thats what I get for posting at early o' clock...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

F-Tilt also goes through Mach Tornado significantly more often, though I suppose that's mostly because it hits higher.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

FTilt also catches people by surprise.

I like FTilt.

 

[Steeler]

F-Tilt also goes through Mach Tornado significantly more often, though I suppose that's mostly because it hits higher.

i believe it's because the tail doesn't have a hurtbox, but i could be wrong.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

i believe it's because the tail doesn't have a hurtbox, but i could be wrong.

The tail most certainly has a hurtbox, but I think you mean the tail flame, which makes more sense.

Charizard could run away from danger much more safely if his tail didn't spread out while running.

 

[CoonTail]

Lol Zard could also run away much safer/easier if his tail did not have a hurtbox like originally stated.
Man I hate all the miniscule crap that hurts PT in semi serious ways.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh my god.

Charizard is the Mewtwo replacement.

It all makes sense now.

 

[CoonTail]

^ LOLOL supreme I totally see it and its hysterically true

 

[Geenareeno]

Isn't Lucario the replacement?

 

[CoonTail]

God I hate lucario compared to MewTwo, MewTwo is so much kooler than Lucario its not even funny.

Don't sully the god of genetic experimentations name like that!!

<3 Geen

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Lucario has exactly one move from Mewtwo.

His roll.

 

[CoonTail]

^this

Sounds like supreme is on my side

 

[Geenareeno]

God I hate lucario compared to MewTwo, MewTwo is so much kooler than Lucario its not even funny.

Don't sully the god of genetic experimentations name like that!!

<3 Geen

LOL

Their Neutral B's are exactly the same and they are both somewhat legendary. They both have aura. They have similar U-Smash and the same F-Smash. Wait this is Q+A Thread.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Neutral Bs are not exactly the same. Lucario's fully charged AS travels in a straight line and Mewtwo's SB follows a wave pattern. Lucario's is also much faster and isn't his primary kill move.
Mewtwo is a light, Lucario is a heavy.
Mewtwo struggles to combo in a game with them. Lucario easily combos in a game without them.
Mewtwo's USmash consists of numerous smaller hits followed by one stronger one, Lucario's USmash is a single strong hit followed by a long lasting weaker hitbox.
Mewtwo's FSmash has little range, Lucario's FSmash has been reported to hit people playing on another setup. Several days later.
Lucario's Aura changes the power of his moves, from 0.7x damage and knockback at 0% to 1.4x damage and knockback at 180%. Mewtwo's is purely graphical.
Lucario is a pseudo-legendary, Mewtwo is a legendary.
Mewtwo is cursed by a very long tail that is also a hurtbox, Lucario is not.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

are you also gonna claim that fox and falco arent clones in melee because "falcos laser shoots slower and stuns people"

mewtwo and lucario are both floaty characters who use a lot of "aura" based attacks, you dont need to compare them pixel by pixel to tell that lucario is at least supposed to be similar to mewtwo

 

[Geenareeno]

are you also gonna claim that fox and falco arent clones in melee because "falcos laser shoots slower and stuns people"

mewtwo and lucario are both floaty characters who use a lot of "aura" based attacks, you dont need to compare them pixel by pixel to tell that lucario is at least supposed to be similar to mewtwo

Yeah basically that. The two most similar characters between the two games that aren't themselves are Mewtwo and Lucario. I'm not talking about hitboxes and ****. This is a stupid debate anyway lol.

 

[JOE!]

@Dirt:

Lucario isnt Pseudo Legndary, and is a midweight....

Also, Mewtwo doesnt have aura, he has darkness and Earthbound sparkles as his effects

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Lucario is totally pseudo-legendary. He can talk, and he has his own movie.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

What exactly makes a pseudo legendary?

 

[Sky Pirate]

Also, can someone test how fast Charizard's first jab can cancel into other things?

Charizard's Jab1
- Can cancel into Jab2 as soon as Frame 10 (if input on exactly frame 10)
- Automatically goes into Jab2 on frame 19 if held normally
- First actionable frame is frame 23
- Has five frames of hitlag fresh, so add five frames to any of these values to get the frame data for a fresh successful hit (15, 24, 28)

Charizard's Jab2
- Can cancel into Jab2 as soon as Frame 10 (if input on exactly frame 10)
- Automatically goes into Jab2 on frame 19 if held normally
- First actionable frame is frame 26
- Has five frames of hitlag fresh, so add five frames to any of these values to get the frame data for a fresh successful hit (15, 24, 31)

Was that what you were asking for?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Charizard's Jab1
- Can cancel into Jab2 as soon as Frame 10 (if input on exactly frame 10)
- Automatically goes into Jab2 on frame 19 if held normally
- First actionable frame is frame 23
- Has five frames of hitlag fresh, so add five frames to any of these values to get the frame data for a fresh successful hit (15, 24, 28)

Charizard's Jab2
- Can cancel into Jab2 as soon as Frame 10 (if input on exactly frame 10)
- Automatically goes into Jab2 on frame 19 if held normally
- First actionable frame is frame 26
- Has five frames of hitlag fresh, so add five frames to any of these values to get the frame data for a fresh successful hit (15, 24, 31)

Was that what you were asking for?

Yes--Thank you.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly, though--How fast does it have to be in order to combo properly?

 

[Zigsta]

SkyPirate, why do you know this?!

 

[Sky Pirate]

It takes... a minute or two to check the Lizardon (love that) PAC, a minute to load Brawl, and about five minutes to confirm everything a few times. That's only like... eightish minutes to help someone out.
And I already told you that I was taking an interest in P.T., no? ^^;

Reflex, please check your PMs. ^_^

 

[WindMajor]

What's up PT mains?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.