Ingoro
Smash Ace
Well I know it isn't a thread, but be sure to check the videos from fellow Pokemon Trainer. Reflex posted a lot very recently so if you study him, I'm 100% sure you'll pick something up.
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Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread
- Thread starter Miles.
- Start date
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
i can't find reflex's old mu thread. can some1 point it out to me?
The Nameless Wanderer
Smash Lord
Just wondering if Squirtle's Down angled Ftilt could Shield Poke?
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Yes, it can. I do it most when my opponent is near the ledge, to pressure their shield, poke through, or put them on the ledge. If it hits, you can follow up at low%s with Grab, Jab, or Ftilt again. At higher percents, Dash Attack is also legible. Retreating Fair is also pretty good.
It was a community effort. Try the important thread index...thread.
It can, though the further away you are, the better your chances with that are.
D-Tilt works better at shield-poking overall, however.
Xyless
Smash Master
I had such a huge pain against Lucario at the last tourney I went to. As in, I got consistently 2-stocked by one. I felt like I couldn't get in a groove at all with any of my characters, only doing decently with Charizard because, well, rock smash.
Any tips?
Any tips?
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Try to kill early, I know this sounds super obvious but what I'm meaning to say with this is, if you use your good kill moves, for example Squirtle's fair to deal a lot of damage they will get stale and since lucario is the " more damage means more power" kinda guy you'd want to kill him on the most earliest percentages as possible. That's the first thing that comes to mind, I don't have a lot of exp in the MU sorry 
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure not using fair against Lucario so it's fresh to kill him is a bad idea. Would rack as squirtle, switch to Ivy for kill work better? Then you could switch again and damage and kill as chari. Or damage and kill with Squirtle's fair.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Ye, it is an option. Perhaps fair is to much but I would defintly get killers like usmash, down throw fresh for squirtle. I thought about switching to but it somehow i just don't like the sound of being forced to switch midbattle.
Xyless
Smash Master
I never use dthrow unless it's killing percentage time. The other throws do more damage (dthrow does only 6%, which is less than grab release to jab combo I believe), uthrow can set up some juggles, and I can just grab release to jab to refresh more.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Yeah but against anyone who knows the matchup, they will just shield during your jab combo. At least that's what I experience a lot while doing it.
Xyless
Smash Master
If you're expecting then to shield, then just grab them again.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Ah, that's good thinking.
T-block
B2B TST
Yep - Squirtle's jab combo is very easily SDI'd and punished if you're expecting it. If you see that your opponent realizes this, cancelling jab combo after the first or second jab into a grab can be effective. Note that the first jab is guaranteed frame-wise though, so there's no need to worry about that being shielded.
Caasi11
Smash Cadet
Well, if anybody doesn't mind me asking... >_>
I've been looking into the input required to execute a hydrograb with Squirtle, but I keep seeing examples such as "it's like a hydroplane but with...". Can anybody tell me the full imput required to preform this from the right-facing or left-pacing positions?
I've been looking into the input required to execute a hydrograb with Squirtle, but I keep seeing examples such as "it's like a hydroplane but with...". Can anybody tell me the full imput required to preform this from the right-facing or left-pacing positions?
Run in a direction (say, you're running left).
Turn around, as if you're trying to start running to the right, hydroplane something to the right, or whatever. Start holding right so you turn around, basically.
During the turnaround (we tend to call it a shellshift here), hold Shield, and at the end of the turnaround animation (where Squirtle seems to slingshot himself in the new direction), press the C-Stick in the direction where you were initially running.
Basically, run left, hold left to turn around, hold shield, press C-Stick left at the end of the turnaround. Switch directions for a hydrograb in the other direction.
For future reference, there is an AT thread--
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161741
Short-hop N-Air (usually RAR'd) helps. Running grab is fine against most. D-Smash covers both sides against weak rolls.
Squirtle's uncharged Water Gun isn't very safe, unfortunately.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
I've never used a uncharged watergun that took some good effect. For the punishing part, I'll go exactly with what reflex said, from my own experience though I know I hardly use downsmash because I don't think it's a good move for charizard to use.
If they roll away from you, running U-Smash can work, too.
Hey, im trying to figure out the counterpick for all characters so im going to all the Q&A threads of all the characters and posting this. I would like for you to give me your characters worst MU and worst stage so it saves me a lot of time researching it myself and testing stuff.
I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.
Hope to get some answers pretty soon.
I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.
Hope to get some answers pretty soon.
Meta Knight is utterly stupid. Marth is utterly stupid. Falco is pretty bad, but not as stupid as the other two.
Pokémon Trainer really appreciates platforms, but doesn't have any truly terrible stages. Lots of personal preference, but the first rule seems to be important. I usually ban Final Destination, unless there's a particularly ridiculous counterpick based on the opponent's character choice.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
I think it was recently discussed that Lylat was kinda bad because of the gay ledges.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
We neeed a stage discussion topic :O I would only go lylat if I were facing a wolf.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
I like to play on Lylat against Wolf and occasionally Mario. Stage discussion topic would be really good, since I don't understand much of our mechanics of character-based counter-picking.
T-block
B2B TST
Squirtle and Ivysaur like Lylat though.
But yeah, PT is pretty flexible - my stage choice usually depends on the opponent's character more than mine. Pictochat or PS1 are my defaults though.
But yeah, PT is pretty flexible - my stage choice usually depends on the opponent's character more than mine. Pictochat or PS1 are my defaults though.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
I tend to play to aggresive so...
I always get stuck under Ps1's edge
I always get stuck under Ps1's edge
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
I need help dishing out Razor Leaves faster as Ivy. I normally do something wrong with my Bair spacing, and I leave her open to attack. By no means do I approach with either, however.
Are Ivy's jabs good on edgeguarding onstage? Since they cover a lot of space, my opponent is normally forced to roll onstage, which I can punish.
I've gotten the hang of Squirtle. Implementing Dair has helped me a lot.
Are Ivy's jabs good on edgeguarding onstage? Since they cover a lot of space, my opponent is normally forced to roll onstage, which I can punish.
I've gotten the hang of Squirtle. Implementing Dair has helped me a lot.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
As far as PT's worst matchups go I have to agree MK and marth are at the top of the list. Falco comes in as a close second to those but due to the increased gimpability of falco vs. MK & Marth I really dont believe he is as bad a matchup as the other too.
Dont mistake what I'm saying falco is a ROUGH matchup....but I just dont think it is as rough as marth and MK figuring you have some leeway against him if he ends up below the stage
Ivy's jabs are sub-par at best they can lead to some funny nonsense to edgehogging......I have a feeling d-tilt does the job better though since it was good range and actual knockback.
As far as razor leaf goes you dont wanna dish out alot of razor leaves...but rather followup an accurate razor leaf. There are ways to control the pattern razor leaf takes but I have to dig it up and tbh you have to know when to follow a razor leaf. Throwing a lot of razors leaves isnt as effective as throwing a very accurate one and following up properly with a grab, attack, etc
Dont mistake what I'm saying falco is a ROUGH matchup....but I just dont think it is as rough as marth and MK figuring you have some leeway against him if he ends up below the stage
Ivy's jabs are sub-par at best they can lead to some funny nonsense to edgehogging......I have a feeling d-tilt does the job better though since it was good range and actual knockback.
As far as razor leaf goes you dont wanna dish out alot of razor leaves...but rather followup an accurate razor leaf. There are ways to control the pattern razor leaf takes but I have to dig it up and tbh you have to know when to follow a razor leaf. Throwing a lot of razors leaves isnt as effective as throwing a very accurate one and following up properly with a grab, attack, etc
i don't agree with that aposl. MK is much harder than D3 imo. i beat fogo at MLG Dallas and although part of it was matchup inexperience on his part, i believe it's a lot easier on the MK to compensate for matchup inexperience by simply being as gay as possible. which, coincidentally, is the best way for MK to approach that matchup (and many others).
Aposl
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 5, 2008
- Messages
- 834
well lets put it this way, Coney who does know the match up and M2k who doesnt know the match up. 1 month ago I had the pleasure of playing M2K in 2 hours worth of friendlies, and I have played with Coney on countless occasions. By the end of my session with M2K I was almost winning the matches. Against Coney I never got close. This does not prove or disprove either of our points, but hopefully it shows you why I say what I say. In the end we both need to help each other get better at both of these match ups so we can start advancing the PT name!
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Aposl if you think the matchup is that rough you really should talk to Reflex because he was always one to avdicate that DeDeDe was not as aweful of a matchup as it seemed.....He only eloborated a couple of times talking about use of flamethrower for spacing and a couple other very vague ideas.
As far as steeler goes it just seems his encounters with MK have always been ridden with the horrid "gay" that MK has but I do see you point Aposl. I like the enthusiasm and I would love to see more of this too. If we also got more used to powershield canceling...our characters has some great uses on MK especially if your capable of reading and thinking the multiple steps ahead against him. Im not just talkin about the Powershield canceling tornado BS....Im talking about really using it to beat MK's downsmash, d-tilt, and f-tilt with it.
As far as steeler goes it just seems his encounters with MK have always been ridden with the horrid "gay" that MK has but I do see you point Aposl. I like the enthusiasm and I would love to see more of this too. If we also got more used to powershield canceling...our characters has some great uses on MK especially if your capable of reading and thinking the multiple steps ahead against him. Im not just talkin about the Powershield canceling tornado BS....Im talking about really using it to beat MK's downsmash, d-tilt, and f-tilt with it.
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
So PT was my original main, but stamina is total BS and the reason I've never played PT competitively.
Can I get some advice on how to deal with it? I've decided I'm going to secondary PT for a while, then eventually switch to maining him once I've gotten to the point where I'm placing decently in tourney.
Can I get some advice on how to deal with it? I've decided I'm going to secondary PT for a while, then eventually switch to maining him once I've gotten to the point where I'm placing decently in tourney.
T-block
B2B TST
This thread summarizes some of my thoughts on the issue: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264340
It's... really matchup dependent, and there's no "best way" set in stone yet. One thing to keep in mind is to watch for when your opponent is at high percents. This is when you have a lot of opportunities to manipulate your own lineup. If you were scared of having Ivysaur out, now she only needs to land one f-air, or one b-throw before she's able to switch out. Of course, there's still a large risk associated with that, and you have to be careful about falling into fishing for that one high knockback move. Don't be afraid to switch often either... you can cycle back to your original pokemon surprisingly quickly if you need to.
On the opposite side, don't expect to be able to switch when your opponent is at low percents. If you're allowing your opponent to respawn while your pokemon is fatigued, make sure that's really what you want.
Counterpick to stages that allow frequent switching. Smashville and RC are good for Baton Passing. Other good stages are PS1 and Pictochat for the stall potential.
It's... really matchup dependent, and there's no "best way" set in stone yet. One thing to keep in mind is to watch for when your opponent is at high percents. This is when you have a lot of opportunities to manipulate your own lineup. If you were scared of having Ivysaur out, now she only needs to land one f-air, or one b-throw before she's able to switch out. Of course, there's still a large risk associated with that, and you have to be careful about falling into fishing for that one high knockback move. Don't be afraid to switch often either... you can cycle back to your original pokemon surprisingly quickly if you need to.
On the opposite side, don't expect to be able to switch when your opponent is at low percents. If you're allowing your opponent to respawn while your pokemon is fatigued, make sure that's really what you want.
Counterpick to stages that allow frequent switching. Smashville and RC are good for Baton Passing. Other good stages are PS1 and Pictochat for the stall potential.
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
Ivysaur is actually my best of the three, so I have no problem with her being out. Charizard is my worst, I should probably work a lot on him.
T-block
B2B TST
Right well...substitute Pokemon wherever necessary. You get my point.
And yeah, the other big thing is being comfortable enough with all three than you feel confident enough to switch often.
And yeah, the other big thing is being comfortable enough with all three than you feel confident enough to switch often.
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
Is NAir as punishable as I think it is? It just seems like my opponents could SDI out of it really easily and then FSmash me or something. Or worse, knock me off stage.
Also, is Charizard's Glide attack good at all? His glide just seems to slow for it to be useful.
Also, is Charizard's Glide attack good at all? His glide just seems to slow for it to be useful.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Glide attack isn't as useful as it seems. Although if you land one at really low percents, you can Hyphen Usmash or possibly Pivot Grab.
I normally don't use Ivy's Nair unless It's rising, or I'm really close to the ground and I choose to follow up with Bullet Seed, Utilt, Pivot grab, Etc. But I think it's easy to SDI from. Some characters can punish it harder than others, but on instances that you're so close to the ledge that you fear being knocked off, I find Bair and Ftilt spacing to be better.
I normally don't use Ivy's Nair unless It's rising, or I'm really close to the ground and I choose to follow up with Bullet Seed, Utilt, Pivot grab, Etc. But I think it's easy to SDI from. Some characters can punish it harder than others, but on instances that you're so close to the ledge that you fear being knocked off, I find Bair and Ftilt spacing to be better.