Best moves of each type

[Zethoro]

Can we get Bowser's BAir up here? It's a 19% move that kills most of the cast by 100% at midstage and is auto-cancellable out of a short hop, mitigating its atrocious landing lag.

 

[FullMoon]

I think Greninja's pivot grab could be worth of mention. It's slower than all the others at frame 15, but Greninja just slides so far that it's pretty hard to punish it on whiff unless you're really fast, plus it has 20 frame of endlag which is the second least amount of endlag in a pivot grab making it even safe. It also has a pretty good range.

 

[KatyPerry]

dtilt (hits under the ledge, comboes into itself + grab, nair, fair followups)
up-b (elevator?)
down smash (frame 5 --> second fastest)
down air (how many times can you throw out this move on the air and still be able to recover? also the it has a long lasting hitbox where it doesn't matter if you get the sweetspot, most of the time the opponent won't be able to make it back)

 

[Trifroze]

Just a few things to nitpick;



Little Macs usmash I feel doesnt belong among this crowd. Sure its strong but plenty of characters can usmashes only a little less powerful without requiring such a precise hitbox to actually get the strong hit. I mean, compare ROBs to Macs... huge difference



Villager should be each category here theres no reason his fair would be, but not his bair while losing to the likes of Ness. Same with his uair which is amazing.



Mewtwo easily deserves a spot in the top fthrow along with ganon. I dont see how pit or lucas deserve a spot there, while mewtwo and ganon have the highest damaging fthrows, and none of them combo anyway. And Ikes dthrow? His uthrow is the combo throw.

Similarly with backthrow, since backthrows are almost always kill moves or to put a lot of distance between the enemy, the order of strength goes

1: Ness
2: Lucas
3: Villager
4: Mewtwo
5: Toon link

And then DK, Mario etc start to KO a bit later than that.

Little Mac's up smash is crazy good, it serves the same purpose as Fox's but it trades a little bit of speed for a lot of power. The sweetspot hits as long as your opponent is in front of you, which is how most up smashes like that work.

Villager's dair is there but uair isn't because uairs are generally much better moves, but in Villager's case they're nearly the same one. His fair is there because it has the same major purpose (zoning) as bair except it's faster.

Mewtwo's fthrow you can SDI out of very easily so that it only does 9%.

 

[pikazz]

I havent seen any on anyones lists except for one so I want to say about some of his attacks that I think deserves either a mention or top 10

UAir: easily his Best move! its fast, have big coverage, disjointed and can frametrap. it can also Combo into itself at low to mid and can kill ontop! the main thing thats bad of this move is that he doesnt have many setups that lead to this move. only "strings" froms UTilt that can be jumped off and "true combo" from JC SideB so he cant abuse it that easily as Mario/ZSS/Diddy can

FAir: its a great move but possible not as great as the others. Disjointed, and SHAC and it basically has a "wall" of hitbox (lingers) infront of him that can destroy minor projectiles (Mario, Luigi, Villager FAir, droid and Eggs). landing FAir has also a hitbox which is true combo into a grab or a tilt.
the bad thing about this is that a SHAC will miss grounded opponents due the move isnt really instant (I believe 5-7 frame start up) but it will however win mostly all trades

DAir: nothing really "new" but his Landing DAir is the interesting one, if it hits anyone that can take damage (opponent, shield included but much less safe, luma, pikmin, stage, you know what I am talking about) will reduce the Landing Lag pretty much instantly so he can follow up with anything at low to mid %

FSmash: Its Fast startup, stronk, safe on shield if spaced properly. multihit meaning spotdodges are useless against it.
the bad thing is that thanks its multihits, its longer than most of the FSmashes, meaning is you miss you can get a heavy punish! and that it doesnt break shield like shown in the trailer

thats about it

 

[Browny]

Little Mac's up smash is crazy good, it serves the same purpose as Fox's but it trades a little bit of speed for a lot of power. The sweetspot hits as long as your opponent is in front of you, which is how most up smashes like that work.

Villager's dair is there but uair isn't because uairs are generally much better moves, but in Villager's case they're nearly the same one. His fair is there because it has the same major purpose (zoning) as bair except it's faster.

Mewtwo's fthrow you can SDI out of very easily so that it only does 9%.

M2's backthrow definitely deserves a spot in that list anyway. Its the 4th strongest and also does 11%, there's no question on whether it should be there.

 

[randomguy1235]

King Dedede's down throw should be listed among the best down throws because of the guaranteed combos (DT into Fair, Nair, or Uair) on the entire cast until approx. 60%. Dedede mains widely regard this as D3's best tool for good reason.

Also, how do you feel about Ganondorf's Usmash? I'm curious because personally I think it should be listed since it's extremely powerful, has a huge hit box, and has literally zero cooldown (allowing for some tricky mix ups).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Complaints with OP:

Link should be a candidate for top 10 in all three Smashes. F-smash is really safe for how strong and damaging it is due to the range and ability to threaten shield drops with the 2nd hit. U-smash is frame 10, does 17%, bodies all landings, and kills pretty early. D-smash is frame 7 on the first hit and also does massive damage, and the 2nd hit semispikes people and is pretty safe on block.

Link also is a candidate for one of the best D-airs. Absolutely no character can recover low safely against Link due to D-air, and his D-air in general has great utility for beating out a lot of moves.

There's also no way G&W is a candidate for best F-smash or D-smash. Especially compared to someone like Link, G&W Smashes are much slower, less safe/range, and not even stronger by any significant margin, if at all.

 

[adom4]

Complaints with OP:

Link should be a candidate for top 10 in all three Smashes. F-smash is really safe for how strong and damaging it is due to the range and ability to threaten shield drops with the 2nd hit. U-smash is frame 10, does 17%, bodies all landings, and kills pretty early. D-smash is frame 7 on the first hit and also does massive damage, and the 2nd hit semispikes people and is pretty safe on block.

Link also is a candidate for one of the best D-airs. Absolutely no character can recover low safely against Link due to D-air, and his D-air in general has great utility for beating out a lot of moves.

There's also no way G&W is a candidate for best F-smash or D-smash. Especially compared to someone like Link, G&W Smashes are much slower, less safe/range, and not even stronger by any significant margin, if at all.

Dunno about Link but i completely agree on G&W, his F-smash & D-smash aren't that amazing.

 

[Trifroze]

Which 10 down smashes and forward smashes are better than G&W's?

Link's may deserve to be up there for some if not all categories, but his smashes are not safer than G&W's whose down and forward smashes can't be punished without powershielding, and even then a lot of characters don't have options for it. Link's smashes on the other hand are not safe in any sense. Link's dsmash is considerably weaker and riskier than G&W's, even if you hit with it right next to the opponent, in which case it's "only noticeably" weaker. It is a lot faster though, but Link's dsmash is frame 9 according to every source I know of, not 7. Their forward smashes only differ by 2 frames.

 

[Furret24]

Which 10 down smashes and forward smashes are better than G&W's?

Link's may deserve to be up there for some if not all categories, but his smashes are not safer than G&W's whose down and forward smashes can't be punished without powershielding, and even then a lot of characters don't have options for it. Link's smashes on the other hand are not safe in any sense. Link's dsmash is considerably weaker and riskier than G&W's, even if you hit with it right next to the opponent, in which case it's "only noticeably" weaker. It is a lot faster though, but Link's dsmash is frame 9 according to every source I know of, not 7. Their forward smashes only differ by 2 frames.

I can tell from experience that I have gotten grabbed every single time I've whiffed a fsmash or dsmash as G&W. Their range and shield pushback is just too bad.

Oh, here's your list for:
Fsmash
(There's definitely more)
Dsmash


 

[Lavani]

should be listed for both fsmash and dsmash. Both smashes are quick to end - faster than even some tilts - really safe with red/yellow/purples (late yellow fsmash is +3 on shield), and fsmash in particular has great range.

 

[Vyrnx]

Nair and Up b are both top 10. Ness' nair has the jank hitbox, it's fast, kills, and can be used twice in one SH. It's better than Mewtwo's (his nair is not good) at least. Honestly all of Ness' aerials other than dair are some of the best of their type. I personally think his bair is in contention for best in the game with Ike and ZSS because of its ability to be spammed with almost no repercussions. It kills early, and the fact that it autocancels on frame 25 and does 15 damage on top of being totally safe on shield is probably one of the most ridiculous things in the game. G&W's up b is invincible, fast, has huge height, he can attack out of it, and it's amazing at edge guarding.

Also what Lavani said ^

Edit: And 's up b, how did I miss that...

 

[TheHypnotoad]

How is Pikachu's up B not top 10? It's a stellar recovery, very fast, very little landing lag, and can be used in neutral to get some easy damage while being difficult to punish.

 

[Vyrnx]

How is Pikachu's up B not top 10? It's a stellar recovery, very fast, very little landing lag, and can be used in neutral to get some easy damage while being difficult to punish.

I think everyone in this thread including me forgot about it, lol. I was just looking at up b's and noticed.

 

[Fluorescent]

Tink's Up-tilt boys.

You can seriously combo a with a few up tilts and finish with an up-smash to 0-48%

Comes out fast and covers a great deal of Tink's model from both left to right.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I think everyone in this thread including me forgot about it, lol. I was just looking at up b's and noticed.

How do you forget about such a ridiculously good move? I think it's the second best move in the game after Sheik's fair, let alone the best up B.

 

[Trifroze]

How do you forget about such a ridiculously good move? I think it's the second best move in the game after Sheik's fair, let alone the best up B.

Because there's 26 moveslots to consider and 55 characters for each. What would truly be surprising and unlikely is if nothing obvious was overlooked at all.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Because there's 26 moveslots to consider and 55 characters for each. What would truly be surprising and unlikely is if nothing obvious was overlooked at all.

Fair enough.

If the moves are in order, then I think Pikachu's up B should be put in the first spot, for the reasons I listed previously.

Also, I think Toon Link's usmash should be on there somewhere. Not only is it quite powerful, but it is absurdly fast. The framedata on that move is amazing.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Just pointing out that Sheik's standing and dashing grab are both safe on whiff.
That could earn them a post on both lists.

 

[TriTails]

I'm actually surprised Luigi's D-throw is not on the list.

It is still a heavy damage racker and variety of combos can be initiated out of it, making it tricky to DI. He also has a regrab on fast-fallers with F-air + D-air and double F-airs on some floaties. Luigi is still one of the best damage rackers out there thanks to this throw.

His kill setups took a hit, but HooHahNado still works at certain percents. B-air too but I don't think that kills. D-air is also still usable for the spike bounce for combos. U-air is just for plain 17% damage, which isn't bad at high percents where most characters struggle to get meaningful damage out of it. It's only around 130+% where it becomes a weak move to throw around, but considering its <120% stuffs, I think it deserves a mention.

 

[DunnoBro]

Nair: Luigi

Pops people up for combos. If this were on a character with actual mobility it could be a catch-all airdodge punish to continue combos.

Fair: Sheik

Just does everything fairs need to do. Consistent smacking/landing/frontal pressure.

Bair: Falco

Comparable strength to other characters, but better hitbox and lingering hitboxes.

Uair: Ness.

Not explaining this.

Dair: Rosaluma. Spikes, covers landings, is a raw kill option and shield pressure.

If Rosa + Luma isn't applicable then Villager for similar reasoning.

Upsmash: Ganondorf

Hits platforms (with insane shield pressure) and is almost an approach option. On a character with actual mobility it'd be absurd.


F/Dsmash: Mac
Ftilt: Mac
Dtilt: Ganondorf
Utilt: Fox

Jab: Falcon

Not as fast as macs but better IASA frames and covers ledge get-up with a kill/reset option at high percents.

Dthrow: Lucas
Uthrow: Mewtwo
Bthrow: Ness
Fthrow: Ness

 

[Crudele]

If we're looking to fill an up-throw spot, I think greninja could be a candidate. Uthrow > uair works great from basically 0-90%, and then it doubles as a kill throw at around 140%.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I can tell from experience that I have gotten grabbed every single time I've whiffed a fsmash or dsmash as G&W. Their range and shield pushback is just too bad.

Oh, here's your list for:
Fsmash
(There's definitely more)
Dsmash


The Hero-Kings' forward smashes aren't too good. Marth's doesn't kill until about 120% hilted, Lucina's isn't particularly strong, they both have punishable end lag, and neither of them have fantastic range.

I do, however, think they qualify for best up air and side special.

 

[Planty]

The Hero-Kings' forward smashes aren't too good. Marth's doesn't kill until about 120% hilted, Lucina's isn't particularly strong, they both have punishable end lag, and neither of them have fantastic range.

Marth's also kills at 50% off a tipper. Lucina's is ridiculously strong. When we use a ratio of power/speed, their F-smashes are top tier, likely the best (at least Marth's is). And I have no idea why you think they have poor range either.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Marth's also kills at 50% off a tipper. Lucina's is ridiculously strong. When we use a ratio of power/speed, their F-smashes are top tier, likely the best (at least Marth's is). And I have no idea why you think they have poor range either.

Lucina's forward smash doesn't kill until 104% uncharged and 67% fully charged. I don't see how that's "ridiculously strong," and I never said it had poor range, I said it wasn't fantastic.

 

[Furret24]

Lucina's forward smash doesn't kill until 104% uncharged and 67% fully charged. I don't see how that's "ridiculously strong," and I never said it had poor range, I said it wasn't fantastic.

It's still pretty great. It has the power to at 100% while also being frame 10. Most fsmash's of that power are frame 17 or worse. It's range is nothing special, but it's still a nice disjoint.

It the very least, it's better than Game and Watch's. It kills nearly as early, being considerably faster, and doesn't have a huge sourspot that kills at 130% with no shield pushback at all.

Their fsmashes are definitely top 10 (being THE best is a stretch though).

 

[Deleted member]

's up air needs to be on this list. It's a genuinely very good move and one of the more useful assets of Dedede's toolkit. Extends combos out of down throw at low percents, can deal with aggressive divebombers (lookin' at you, , , /), and it catches people well and kills great near the upper blast line, and the fact you can harass people near the ledge with it when you're offstage is so great.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Lucina's forward smash doesn't kill until 104% uncharged and 67% fully charged. I don't see how that's "ridiculously strong," and I never said it had poor range, I said it wasn't fantastic.

With rage, and considering she will likely Fsmash near the ledge, her average Fsmash kill is at 85%. That's pretty nuts.

 

[Ffamran]

May I suggest Ryu, the Pits, ZSS's pummels as other good pummels? If sixriver is right, theirs hits on frame 2 with 15 frames of recovery. That's the third fastest frame 2 pummels next to Lucario's who has 7 recovery and Fox's who has 9 recovery. Following the 3 would be ROB's frame 2, 16 recovery pummel, but I don't know how much damage his pummel does. Already on the list is Samus's which is apparently frame 3 with 8 recovery and Kirby's which is frame 9 with 9 recovery. Lucas and Ness's frame 3, 9 recovery pummels might be another cobsido, but I don't know how much damage they do.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

With rage, and considering she will likely Fsmash near the ledge, her average Fsmash kill is at 85%. That's pretty nuts.

Even less most of the time. I often KO with it on T&C near the ledge from 50-70% from a frame 10 move.

Yeah cool.

May I suggest Ryu, the Pits, ZSS's pummels as other good pummels? If sixriver is right, theirs hits on frame 2 with 15 frames of recovery. That's the third fastest frame 2 pummels next to Lucario's who has 7 recovery and Fox's who has 9 recovery. Following the 3 would be ROB's frame 2, 16 recovery pummel, but I don't know how much damage his pummel does. Already on the list is Samus's which is apparently frame 3 with 8 recovery and Kirby's which is frame 9 with 9 recovery. Lucas and Ness's frame 3, 9 recovery pummels might be another cobsido, but I don't know how much damage they do.

Jigglypuff has the highest DPS for pummels iirc.

 

[adom4]

's up air needs to be on this list. It's a genuinely very good move and one of the more useful assets of Dedede's toolkit. Extends combos out of down throw at low percents, can deal with aggressive divebombers (lookin' at you, , , /), and it catches people well and kills great near the upper blast line, and the fact you can harass people near the ledge with it when you're offstage is so great.

It's not that it's bad, but i think the thing is that there are just better U-airs, U-airs in this game are pretty good in general (most of them at least).

 

[Vyrnx]

May I suggest Ryu, the Pits, ZSS's pummels as other good pummels? If sixriver is right, theirs hits on frame 2 with 15 frames of recovery. That's the third fastest frame 2 pummels next to Lucario's who has 7 recovery and Fox's who has 9 recovery. Following the 3 would be ROB's frame 2, 16 recovery pummel, but I don't know how much damage his pummel does. Already on the list is Samus's which is apparently frame 3 with 8 recovery and Kirby's which is frame 9 with 9 recovery. Lucas and Ness's frame 3, 9 recovery pummels might be another cobsido, but I don't know how much damage they do.

Fox/Lucario/Samus are the highest for pummels because in addition to doing pretty good damage, they help stale move queues a lot.

 

[Planty]

It's still pretty great. It has the power to at 100% while also being frame 10. Most fsmash's of that power are frame 17 or worse. It's range is nothing special, but it's still a nice disjoint.

It the very least, it's better than Game and Watch's. It kills nearly as early, being considerably faster, and doesn't have a huge sourspot that kills at 130% with no shield pushback at all.

Their fsmashes are definitely top 10 (being THE best is a stretch though).

Their F-smashes are definitely top 10. Marth's is special, however. If tippered, it has the highest power/speed ratio of any F-smash (by far) and possibly the highest in the game out of any move. Assuming that a player can consistently get the tipper hitbox, it is in fact the best F-smash in the game, before even accounting for it's large disjoint. If you can't tipper it though...... meh... Is it even top 10, untippered?

 

[Sykkamorre]

I feel i should support the gunner fair.

It's just ludicrously good.

Also, bomb drop is incredibly good as far as down B's, fast, good damage, covers a good angle, high shield damage and can kill.

 

[Furret24]

Their F-smashes are definitely top 10. Marth's is special, however. If tippered, it has the highest power/speed ratio of any F-smash (by far) and possibly the highest in the game out of any move. Assuming that a player can consistently get the tipper hitbox, it is in fact the best F-smash in the game, before even accounting for it's large disjoint. If you can't tipper it though...... meh... Is it even top 10, untippered?

Untippered, it's not quite as good. It can still kill at 110% though, which isn't bad, considering it's decent range and speed.

Even if it wasn't top 10, tipperd is top 3 easily, so it balances out.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I think ZSS's side B should be listed. Not because it's a good attack, because it most certainly is not. (Not anymore, at least. RIP Brawl.) However, it is one of the best tethers in the game, and there is no risk of accidentally doing a nair by mistake when intending to do zair.

 

[LozNerd]

I think falco deserves a spot on D-smash list and Greninja on Up-air.

 

[Mario766]

Fox/Lucario/Samus are the highest for pummels because in addition to doing pretty good damage, they help stale move queues a lot.

Just doing 1-3 pummels helps that out, and it'll do a lot more damage than their pummels excluding Aura Lucario.

Mac's F-Tilt is overrated. It's unsafe unless at the end of the glove, even after the shield stun buff. Sheik's F-Tilt is much better because it's much safer and starts up combos. Mac's just kills at like 110 with rage. His down tilt is much better, it's basically the same as Diddy's except it comes out a frame earlier but is 3 frames laggier. They both set up amazingly for kill set-ups and is pretty safe on shield.

I'm surprised Sheik's N-Air isn't put on some lists too. It serves a different purpose than other moves, it isn't used as a punish, it's an absurdly meaty move at 3-30 which can cover basically every get-up option in the game. Zero uses this heavily in his play, he covers every get-up option, hits you off-stage and more often than not gets a BF follow-up for the kill, or keeps you going to the ledge and repeats the cycle.

 

[Vyrnx]

Just doing 1-3 pummels helps that out, and it'll do a lot more damage than their pummels excluding Aura Lucario.

Yeah, but doing 7 pummels helps stale move queues way more than 3 pummels and does like 2 less damage than, say, three of Jigglypuff's pummels. Especially when you're looking at Fox, who can basically whiff a whole bunch of usmashes and then almost unstale it off of one grab.