Best moves of each type

[Trifroze]

Simple enough, list whoever you think has the best move of each input in the game. This is purely out of curiosity, a sort of compilation of impressions.

I'm going to not go any further than 10 for each. Limited experience with some characters is my reason for any possible obvious overlooks, and I'll be modifying this from time to time based on feedback.

Jab:
Dash attack:
Forward tilt:
Up tilt:
Down tilt:


Forward smash:
Up smash:
Down smash:


Neutral air:
Forward air:
Back air:
Up air:
Down air:
Grab aerial: > > > >


Neutral B:
Side B:
Up B:
Down B:


Standing grab:
Dash grab:
Pivot grab:


Forward throw:
Back throw:
Up throw:
Down throw:
Pummel:

 

[Zelder]

Bowser's jab is pretty great, and Falcon's upair is amazing. Also, weirdly enough, I was going to make this same thread earlier today. Crazy!

Also, how can you not put Mac's ftilt up there. It's easily one of the best moves in the game.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I don't mess around with enough characters to really say, but would argue that...
Bair
Dair
Neutral B
Usmash
The thing about this thread is, everything is gonna be based around biased statements, coming from various people from various styles of play.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Very nice. ^-^

N-air (ridiculous hitbox placement)

N-air (wide hitbox with some combo potential)

D-tilt (fast, with vertical knockback leading to various follow-ups)

 

[vegeta18]

The thing about this thread is, everything is gonna be based around biased statements, coming from various people from various styles of play.

not like this thread is anything official, just asking people`s opinions. Nothing in here is concrete, but its nice to get an idea of what people think, and all the different play styles from various people may make you rethink some of the moves and help realize things that some of us forgot.


and i also agree that little macs ftilt has to be one of the best ftilts in the game. Especially with the way you can change it by angling it into an uppercut (idk how useful that is, but seems like it could have some potential in making an already great move even better)

 

[Deleted member 269706]

not like this thread is anything official, just asking people`s opinions. Nothing in here is concrete, but its nice to get an idea of what people think, and all the different play styles from various people may make you rethink some of the moves and help realize things that some of us forgot.

Yeah I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the thread, just pointing it out cause it is in the competitive sub-forum.

 

[ZHMT]

Speaking objectively here, Puffs strong bair kills earlier than Robins and Falcons (kills earlier than all 5 of the listed bairs actually).

It deals 13% which is the same as DK's strong bair. It rivals the speed of Falcons (2 frames slower) and autocancels on frame 28, meaning its safe on block if spaced. It's almost as strong as Ganons but has the speed of Falcons and low lag. >>

I don't see how it cant be a top 5 back air.

Also I assume you consider all aspects of pummels like move refreshing and all. Metaknight and Puffs Pummel have some of the highest overall damage per second in the game when you compare their 3.1% damage to the duration of the pummel animation.

 

[David Viran]

How is sheiks bair on here but not zss's when zss's is better in almost every way like killing, damage, and I don't know about range but they are close their i'm pretty sure.

 

[Trifroze]

I strongly suggest reading the first couple lines in the op before asking me why something is / isn't.

Also this is in the competitive forum because the moves should rather be judged from a competitive standpoint.

 

[TheMiSP]

Would like to throw in

His dash attack. iirc it outdid my friend's ZSS dash attack.

If not, then his ftilt. Great when pivoted.

 

[Doruge]

Grab
Dthrow
Fair
Nair
Up-B

 

[Epok]

Zair:

 

[RIP_Lucas]

Honestly, I don't see the point of directly comparing moves just because they have the same input command. Especially the specials, but all moves are only as good as the role they do.

For instance, can you really say Captain Falcon's up air is that great if it doesn't kill til way late? Sure it's a fantastic combo move, but what good is that if you can't kill?

Instead, I'd probably compare moves by their roles (combo starter, ground approach, killing throws, projectile, etc.)

Legit questions though:

How is ZSS's DSmash the best? Having to pivot and leave yourself open on one side for roles is stupid annoying, and while that affect is great, it isn't enough imo. Not when you have things like little Mac on the run

Speaking of little Mac, how is his neutral be in the top 3 but lucario's isn't? This exemplifies my 1st point, but aura sphere is crazy good at literally everything, so it should be mentioned.

 

[David Viran]

Honestly, I don't see the point of directly comparing moves just because they have the same input command. Especially the specials, but all moves are only as good as the role they do.

For instance, can you really say Captain Falcon's up air is that great if it doesn't kill til way late? Sure it's a fantastic combo move, but what good is that if you can't kill?

Legit questions though:

How is ZSS's DSmash the best? Having to pivot and leave yourself open on one side for roles is stupid annoying, and while that affect is great, it isn't enough imo. Not when you have things like little Mac on the run

Speaking of little Mac, how is his neutral be in the top 3 but lucario's isn't? This exemplifies my 1st point, but aura sphere is crazy good at literally everything, so it should be mentioned.

It's not that easy to punish zss's dsmash because it doesn't have much endlag and you run the risk of getting hit with the vulnerability of a roll in the beggining. It is used for sheild pokes alot and outranges most rolls while having very good reward for landing it. How is captain falcons uair not good just because it is not good at everything. It argueably has the best combo and damage rackability of the other uairs on the list so it serves a different purpose because of it.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

It's not that easy to punish zss's dsmash because it doesn't have much endlag and you run the risk of getting hit with the vulnerability of a roll in the beggining. It is used for sheild pokes alot and outranges most rolls while having very good reward for landing it. How is captain falcons uair not good just because it is not good at everything. It argueably has the best combo and damage rackability of the other uairs on the list so it serves a different purpose because of it.

It's not that it's punishable, I know it's not, but it isn't that useful to punish the end of rolls, one of the biggest uses of d smashes. What this means is that if there's any input lag, you pretty much have to guess which side they'll be on for your next attack, and if you guess wrong, they will be in a position to punish. I'm not saying it's not good, just that it shouldn't be called the single "best."

And you completely missed the point of the captain falcon example. Everyone knows how good his up air is, but it does a completely different thing to say, fox's. I'd argue that cap's f air has more in common with fox's up air, which just proves that comparing things just because they share input commands makes little sense.

 

[Kofu]

ROB's UThrow deserves mention, IMO. I believe it kills earlier than Marth's (could be wrong there though, it's a good move regardless).

 

[David Viran]

It's not that it's punishable, I know it's not, but it isn't that useful to punish the end of rolls, one of the biggest uses of d smashes. What this means is that if there's any input lag, you pretty much have to guess which side they'll be on for your next attack, and if you guess wrong, they will be in a position to punish. I'm not saying it's not good, just that it shouldn't be called the single "best."

And you completely missed the point of the captain falcon example. Everyone knows how good his up air is, but it does a completely different thing to say, fox's. I'd argue that cap's f air has more in common with fox's up air, which just proves that comparing things just because they share input commands makes little sense.

Ahh, I see what you are saying accept that some of the move catagories cover different things for different characters. I think it should be based on how useful it is to the character using it.

 

[Trifroze]

comparing things just because they share input commands makes little sense.

As I said in the op, this is purely a curiosity thing to see impressions of the most useful moves in the game. Comparison just for the sake of itself is interesting enough in my opinion, although I have to agree that comparing specials of the same input instead of similar function serves close to no purpose.

 

[DarkDeity15]

What is Link not doing there? His jab is godly for one. The first jab can combo into itself forever and can combo into many, many things.

 

[MezzoMe]

Speaking objectively here, Puffs strong bair kills earlier than Robins and Falcons (kills earlier than all 5 of the listed bairs actually).

It deals 13% which is the same as DK's strong bair. It rivals the speed of Falcons (2 frames slower) and autocancels on frame 28, meaning its safe on block if spaced. It's almost as strong as Ganons but has the speed of Falcons and low lag. >>

I don't see how it cant be a top 5 back air.

WTFlying Little Mac?
I know that sometimes it's easy to say "Oh, looks the same, so he must be just as bad", but it's not like because of this those same people can say uncorrect things.
It's true Jigglypuff KOes with his Bair at 106% while the Backhand KOes at 100%(the third highest knockback out of all the. Bairs, after 's dropkick and the Lighting Heel), but it's just as fast as 's , autocancels on frame 22, 6 frames faster than Jigglypuff's and deals 17%, 4% more than Jigglypuff, wich is not little, especially considering that knockback is calculated based on the percentage the opponent has after the damage is dealt, as such, while needs her opponent to be at 93%, needs him at 83%, despite the backhand being faster both on start-up and auto-cancel window (all the while has easier time auto-cancelling because of his higher falling speed). The only drawback it has compared to Jigglypuff is that it has less range and high hiboxes thus has trouble hitting low grounded characters.
Back on topic, I can't understand why has one of the best Bairs but not , since the only advantage that the former has to the latter is the aut-cancel window(19 against 23).

 

[ZHMT]

WTFlying Little Mac?
I know that sometimes it's easy to say "Oh, looks the same, so he must be just as bad", but it's not like because of this those same people can say uncorrect things.
It's true Jigglypuff KOes with his Bair at 106% while the Backhand KOes at 100%(the third highest knockback out of all the. Bairs, after 's dropkick and the Lighting Heel), but it's just as fast as 's , autocancels on frame 22, 6 frames faster than Jigglypuff's and deals 17%, 4% more than Jigglypuff, wich is not little, especially considering that knockback is calculated based on the percentage the opponent has after the damage is dealt, as such, while needs her opponent to be at 93%, needs him at 83%, despite the backhand being faster both on start-up and auto-cancel window (all the while has easier time auto-cancelling because of his higher falling speed). The only drawback it has compared to Jigglypuff is that it has less range and high hiboxes thus has trouble hitting low grounded characters.
If Jigglypuff has the best five Bairs, I can't see Gannon's one not being there, especially if there's , that only has the auto-cancel window (19 against 22) superior to him.

Um, I dont understand your post at all. Everything I said is fact, stop coming off so defensive. Also I think Ganon has one of the best back airs in the game, I never gave a list, all I said was Puff should be included in the OPs.

 

[MezzoMe]

Um, I dont understand your post at all. Everything I said is fact, stop coming off so defensive. Also I think Ganon has one of the best back airs in the game, I never gave a list, all I said was Puff should be included in the OPs.

In your sentence I made giant you were speaking of Ganondorf's Bair as if it was slower than Jigglypuff's, but it just isn't, it's actually both faster and stronger.
Then the last part(that I just edited) was referred to the OP and not your post

 

[ZHMT]

No, I was saying it is slightly weaker than Ganons, and Puffs back air is ALSO slightly slower than Falcons bair. I never said anything about how good or bad Falcons or Ganons moves are in that post, just used them as a marker for comparison.

 

[Trifroze]

Back on topic, I can't understand why has one of the best Bairs but not , since the only advantage that the former has to the latter is the aut-cancel window(19 against 23).

The topic actually wasn't supposed to be focused around my opinions but everyone listing theirs, although I guess I can also modify the first post to match that.

Anyway, Falcon's bair has considerably less landing lag which is a big deal when you're spacing with it and aiming for shorter characters while avoiding a punish. It can also be comboed into dashgrab on low to medium %s because of its pushing (and more rarely tripping) properties. Ganondorf's bair is considerably stronger though, and I actually did put it there first before taking landing lag into account. Jigglypuff's bair is something I overlooked and it's certainly good, but I don't see it killing earlier than either one of the former. It's literally the same in knockback as Falcon's bair with and without DI, however Falcon's knockback is affected more by rage (without focusing on the fact that he lives much longer since that's a different subject). Ganon and Falcon also do more damage, 17% and 14% compared to 13%, while Falcon has an additional hitbox at the end hitting 8% if you miss with the first one, adding a bit of extra safety to it.

I'll put Ganondorf 5th now though, not sure why I thought Mega Man was better. Consider Puff 6th and Mega Man 7th.

E: Also added DK and Robin on dsmash and Mario on usmash.

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Link has the best jab, hands down.
True combos into so many moves, including kill moves like Dsmash and Usmash

 

[Orngeblu]

I really think Greninja should be on the list for Usmash, and possibly even Bair. His Usmash has a lot of upward reach, and good KO percent if I am not mistaken. (Might only be better at the tip)

Also, shouldn't Dr. Mario be on Usmash as well, or is there something I'm missing? I would think their hitboxes to be almost exactly the same if any difference. Maybe I'm judging too much off hitbox, and not other factors like damage and KO percent, but I find Falco could make the list for Usmash as well.

 

[dragontamer]

I really think Greninja should be on the list for Usmash, and possibly even Bair. His Usmash has a lot of upward reach, and good KO percent if I am not mistaken. (Might only be better at the tip)

Greninja's USmash got nerfed hard though. In 1.0.3, I'd agree with you, but it isn't anywhere near as ridiculous as it once was.

I'm thinking Rob's USmash actually... although Mario's is a very strong contender on speed alone.

 

[Locke 06]

I'll put Ganondorf 5th now though, not sure why I thought Mega Man was better.

Because Mega Man's BAir has a 4 frame startup with more range & a disjoint.

 

[Orngeblu]

Greninja's USmash got nerfed hard though. In 1.0.3, I'd agree with you, but it isn't anywhere near as ridiculous as it once was.

I'm thinking Rob's USmash actually... although Mario's is a very strong contender on speed alone.

Edit: Nevermind, I got it now.

 

[John12346]

I'm just going to include a few that I think could be on the list but aren't right now, even if it ends up exceeding the 5 character limit. I don't necessarily think these are all better than the ones currently listed, but they definitely are some serious contenders in my opinion.

Jab:
Ftilt:
Utilt:
Dtilt:

Nair:
Fair:
Bair:
Uair:
Dair:

Fsmash:
Usmash:
Dsmash: N/A

Neutral B: (Grenade Launcher)
Side B: (Super Speed)
Up B: (Jump Glide)
Down B: (Feint Jump)

Dash attack:

 

[Empyrean]

At first I was confused about why anyone would think Little Mac's neutral b is top 5 material, but then I remembered about ko punch, lol.

Also may I suggest ZSS for top 5 uair. It has similar frame data to Falcon's uair except it combos more reliably and longer.

Unrelated but I hadn't realized how many visually similar uairs are in this game.

 

[Trifroze]

At first I was confused about why anyone would think Little Mac's neutral b is top 5 material, but then I remembered about ko punch, lol.

Also may I suggest ZSS for top 5 uair. It has similar frame data to Falcon's uair except it combos more reliably and longer.

Unrelated but I hadn't realized how many visually similar uairs are in this game.

8 damage compared to 13, but I agree the comboing makes up for most of it. I'll replace Yoshi with ZSS.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Grab
Dthrow
Fair
Nair
Up-B

Hmmm......

well....

You're not wrong

 

[Empyrean]

8 damage compared to 13, but I agree the comboing makes up for most of it. I'll replace Yoshi with ZSS.

I wasn't sure about the damage values. Both moves do share 9 frames of landing lag, but I guess the additional damage on Falcon's makes the move safer on shield.

 

[Antonykun]

Um can we talk about Swordfighter's U-air real quick? It's fast, disjointed, deals 16%, and kills as early as their F-smash does. Normally you can tell that a Swordfighter is doing well when they are landing a lot of U-airs.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I'm just going to include a few that I think could be on the list but aren't right now, even if it ends up exceeding the 5 character limit. I don't necessarily think these are all better than the ones currently listed, but they definitely are some serious contenders in my opinion.

Jab:

Excuse my ignorance, but what is so good about Villager's jab?

 

[Kofu]

Mainly it just deals good damage per hit (3%) and can be stopped at any time. I don't think it's one of the best jabs in the game, though. It doesn't legitimately lead into anything as far as I am aware and without a finishing hit it's not as safe as a lot of jabs.

I also second Game & Watch's Up-B for one of the best in the game. It's quick, fairly safe, gives hefty distance and actually has a hitbox. Pikachu's is also up there, since it gives significant distance, is very maneuverable, and is great for trapping and repositoning on the stage. It's probably the most versatile Up-B in the game. I question Samus's place on the Up-B list. Sure, it's quick and it can get KOs, but it's really not that strong and the finishing hit sometimes fails to connect. It really isn't super impressive in terms of distance for recovery, either.

One more nomination: Bonus Fruit for neutral B. You tell me another move that has 8 distinct effects that range from trapping the opponent's actions, setting up kills, or even getting kills, as well as being a normal item that can, in some circumstances, be caught and used again. It's a phenomenal move.

 

[John12346]

Villager's Jab 1 is fast, very safe, serves as one of his only spacing tools, and it also combos into turnips at higher percentages giving him an alternate option for netting the kill.

Pretty good package deal, I'd say.

 

[Knee Smasher]

Jab:
Ftilt:
Utilt:

Dtilt:



Nair:
Fair:
Bair:
Uair:
Dair:



Fsmash:
Usmash:

Dsmash:



Neutral B:
Side B:
Up B:
Down B:



Grab:
Pivot Grab:
Dash Grab:
Pummel:



Uthrow:
Dthrow:
Fthrow:
Bthrow:



Dash attack:

 

[Cecil-]

G&W has what is in my opinion the best upsmash in the entire game, due to it having invincible blocking properties from frame 4-26 (ending after the attack has happened). There's a video that demonstrates it which I can't link due to a low post count, but it's an incredible move.