Best moves of each type

[B!squick]

Bowser's Jab has a +7 frame advantage and is an excellent frame trap. Not sure how that compares to the rest of the cast but when you factor in the slight backwards momentum boost you get from Jab that you can use to just run away on a whiff and not get punished, I'd say that's a strong candidate for top 5.

Also, Bowser's USmash not top 5 either? Okay... What other USmashes allow you to take no damage from a KO Punch?

EDIT: While I'm here, I'd also like to mention that Bowser's arms are intangible during his Jab, Tilts, and NAir (randomly JUST the arms).

 

[Lavani]

Does anyone have a good Uthrow in this game? Most of them just don't seem useful at all in Brawl/Smash 4 physics, with Dthrows usually being better for followups and F/Bthrows being better for positioning.

Greninja's uthrow is a combo starter from 0-90% and a kill throw around 160%

Sonic's uthrow combos into upB>aerial at mid percents

That's about all I've got.

 

[Kofu]

Greninja's uthrow is a combo starter from 0-90% and a kill throw around 160%

Thank you for alerting me to this Lavani, I don't always know which throws to test.

Greninja's UThrow KOs Mario in training mode at 175%, making it slightly weaker than Link's and slightly stronger than Marth/Lucina's.

 

[Big O]

Simple enough, list whoever you think has the best move of each type in the game. This is purely out of curiosity, a sort of compilation of impressions.

I'm going to not go any further than 5 for each. Limited experience with some characters is my reason for any possible obvious overlooks, and I'll be modifying this from time to time based on feedback.It almost seems like aerials, downthrow setups and specials dominate the game.

Jab:
Ftilt:
Utilt:
Dtilt:



Nair:
Fair:
Bair:
Uair:
Dair:



Fsmash:
Usmash:
Dsmash:



Neutral B:
Side B:
Up B:
Down B:



Grab:
Pivot Grab:
Dash Grab:
Pummel:



Uthrow:
Dthrow:
Fthrow:
Bthrow:



Dash attack:

I'd put Link's or Fox's jab above ZSS's jab. They both outdamage her jab and can combo into KO moves.

DK's Pivot grab has more range than Kirby, Rosalina, and Ness. It is probably top 3 (non-tether grab) in terms of range.

I'd rank Ganon's and Diddy's Side B above CF's (not sure why you rank it so highly).

Charizard has one of the best shield grabs in the game.

Luigi's Dthrow is the best combo throw in the game.

Palutena has insane pummel damage.

 

[David Viran]

I'd put Link's or Fox's jab above ZSS's jab. They both outdamage her jab and can combo into KO moves.

DK's Pivot grab has more range than Kirby, Rosalina, and Ness. It is probably top 3 (non-tether grab) in terms of range.

I'd rank Ganon's and Diddy's Side B above CF's (not sure why you rank it so highly).

Charizard has one of the best shield grabs in the game.

Luigi's Dthrow is the best combo throw in the game.

Palutena has insane pummel damage.

Well technically zss's jab can combo into her up b which kills really early but not on every character, reliably at least.

 

[Trifroze]

Link's jab in my opinion is too slow to be in the top 5, being slower than most tilts in the game which are kill moves by themselves, and Fox's jab can be SDI'd too easily to be considered very reliable.

Raptor boost is a top 5 side b because it's one of the best read/punish KO moves in the game, killing common lightweights at 70% with medium rage and 100% without. I think Ganondorf's side b got a lot worse due to the bounce mechanic, but people aren't teching it consistently yet for some reason. It makes it literally more than twice as hard to tech chase opponents, now having 8 wake-up possibilities rather than 5.

 

[san.]

Utilt
: As fast as 's at frame 5, high range, low lag, combos into itself at low percents, and kills earlier than 's with the sweetspot around 100-110%. Scales well with rage with its 50 base knockback.
frame 11, but kills extremely early. Scales well with rage due to its 50 base knockback. Possibly not top 5 for overall utilt, but definitely among the top for killing utilts alongside Mega Man's.

Dtilt
Frame 7, 8% damage, somewhat low lag compared to other dtilts, long range + disjoint, combo starter

Fair
A little slow at frame 10, but allows for a waveland, shoots one of the best transcendent projectiles in the game, and has very low landing lag. It can combo into itself, dash attack, grab, and kill moves. It's pretty safe on shield because you don't suffer from hitlag.

Neutral B
grenade can be used as a combo starter, approach, b-reverse, stage control, gimp, kill move, etc. you can choose the direction at the time of release and B-reverse after release and during its charge. The explosion doesn't hurt you.

Grab:
Miis generally have some of the best grabs. Shorter miis have some of the lowest grab ending lag in the game (shortest has abysmal range, slightly above shortest is good), while tall Miis have very high grab and dash grab ranges.

Uthrow
combos from 0-80 into aerials. Up to ~0-60 with rage.

Pummel
There's a pummel dps chart somewhere. All I know is that Ike's is above average but not top 5. Kirby's may be up there.

 

[Trifroze]

Going to revive this to update and compare the old and the new lists, old:

Jab:
Ftilt:
Utilt:
Dtilt:



Nair:
Fair:
Bair:
Uair:
Dair:



Fsmash:
Usmash:
Dsmash:



Neutral B:
Side B:
Up B:
Down B:



Grab:
Pivot Grab:
Dash Grab:
Pummel:



Uthrow:
Dthrow:
Fthrow:
Bthrow:



Dash attack:

lol

Some of these are really hard to judge, and moves of the same input can have vastly different purposes for different characters, but I'll just try to rank them based on how much the characters get out of them. Still limited to 5 characters per move for now. Remember that despite the fact that I consider myself to know a lot about the game due to all the labbing, I don't know about the exact properties of every move in the game. These are judged as individual moves, not based on what they set up into for those specific characters, more in the sense that generally everyone would like to have these moves:


Tilts:
Jab:
Dash Attack:
Ftilt:
Utilt:
Dtilt:


Smashes:
Fsmash:
Usmash:
Dsmash:


Aerials (a really tough category, have to put more than 5):
Nair:
Fair:
Bair:
Uair:
Dair:
Zair: > > > >


Specials:
Neutral B: /
Side B:
Up B:
Down B:


Grabs (there isn't much info out so purely based on experience):
Grab:
Dash grab:
Pivot grab:


Throws:
Fthrow:
Bthrow:
Uthrow:
Dthrow:
Pummel: (highest dps)

I haven't played around with / versus nearly enough characters so I can't appreciate everything there might be to appreciate about certain characters. Extending all to 10 would probably help a lot.

 

[Vyrnx]

For pummel it's and since it helps stale move queues so much, in addition to pretty good damage. Olimar's fsmash and side b are really good too, I could see his side b replacing some of the ones up there now. Wario's neutral b is really good, but it's hard to beat some of the chargeable ones... I'm surprised Yoshi's jab isn't up there. His up air should be top 5.

Also not saying it should necessarily be top 5 but Samus' dtilt comes close because of its crazy disjoint, range and low startup time.

I'm also not convinced that has a top 5 dash grab with its end lag. I think its startup is pretty bad too...

 

[Lavani]

probably deserve mention for pummels. I don't know how their actual DPS stacks up, but the incredibly rapid pummel rate they share is quite effective at unstaling moves.

jab is my favorite jab in the game after Rosalina's, but it's very different from the other jabs listed and I'm not sure who I'd consider it above as a result. Respectable disjoint, low end lag, 4% on the jab1, and the ability to win clank trades against ≤13% hits are all great qualities, and the jab1 can combo into other moves as well.

 

[FullMoon]

I think Greninja's N-Air might be a candidate post-patch. Deals 11%, very low landing lag, combos into stuff at all percentages, is disjointed and now is pretty damn safe (-4 on shield)

The only thing it has going against it is it's start-up, but it's only 2 frames slower than ZSS's still

 

[MysteriousSilver]

My main bias is telling me Palutena should be on the list for Dash attack, and maybe Bair

I don't understand why people are putting her Usmash there. The vertical range is nice, and it's her best Smash, but I can't think of a single character I dabble in that doesn't have a better Usmash. That damn thing takes nearly a third of a second to start up and more than a second before FAF, and it's horizontal range is pretty weak and it doesn't hit directly above her or behind her at all to cover ambiguous position like may Usmashes do. It doesn't even really kill that early.

Hell, if Palu's Usmash makes the cut, Ganon's Usmash should definitely be on there for being plus on shield drop and killing so crazy early on the sweetspot.

 

[ARGHETH]

Side B:

Not really sure how I feel about Arcfire being here...It's good, yes, but the lag is relatively bad and the angle means that most characters can just roll in and punish at midrange. It's likely top 10, but not top 5.

 

[wedl!!]

Peach not being on best Fair list.

What.

 

[Trifroze]

Peach not being on best Fair list.

What.

pls read

Remember that despite the fact that I consider myself to know a lot about the game due to all the labbing, I don't know about the exact properties of every move in the game. These are judged as individual moves, not based on what they set up into for those specific characters, more in the sense that generally everyone would like to have these moves

I haven't played around with / versus nearly enough characters so I can't appreciate everything there might be to appreciate about certain characters. Extending all to 10 would probably help a lot.

Also Peach's fair is basically Robin's fair except slower laggier weaker and with less range. It's only considered good because of her aerial mobility and the setups into it.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Jiggs Bair is one of the best yet not Ness?
Ness is faster, literally nearly just as powerful(I can't look at the Frame Data right now) has a slight disjoint, and more range.
Also your only comparing Peachs fair to Robin, it's still among the best that's for sure.

Kirby's pummel deserves an honorable mention(from what I heard it's like 2nd fastest behind Lucario?) though it deals 1.55......generally lower then most, but faster then far more so eh....
f it's based on damage I'm surprised Zeldas pummel isn't up there

His Utilt is definitely up there as well, it has intangibility throughout his entire foot and its frame 4, one of the fastest, while being a fantastic juggling tool that can lead into many moves.
So essentially, it's a great juggler with a noticeable disjoint, and being a decent anti air and leads into many follow ups.

 

[Trifroze]

Ness' back air I think is one of the best, but the reason I put Jigglypuff there was his better range and hitbox. I think I'll extend all categories to 10 now.

 

[Kaladin]

We can't talk about specials?

Up: Pikachu, ZSS, MK, Ryu.

Neutral: Sheik, Pacman, Luigi, Wario

Side: Sonic, BowJow, Robin, Lucas (there are no really good side specials in this game, are there?)

Down: perhaps the strongest special slot across the cast. Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, BowJow, Ryu, Pika (bias), Pacman, Toon Link, Wario

Edit: Re: upthrows. Mario, Pika, and Lucas have three of the best uthrows in the game based on results and theory, respectively. (Ally's uthrow dair fair is soooo good) of course, the other killing up throws are up there as well.

 

[Moffe]

I think toon links utilt deserves a spot

 

[Ffamran]

Ness' back air I think is one of the best, but the reason I put Jigglypuff there was his better range and hitbox. I think I'll extend all categories to 10 now.

Do you think it'd be a good idea to split or have separate categories? So, scenario: Falco's Bair is one of the best in terms of power/speed, but in terms of utility, Dr. Mario might have the edge. Looking at throws, it seems this would be a good idea as for F-throw, all, but Sheik and DK who is a special case, are used for killing and not comboing.

 

[TTTTTsd]

USmash if we're looking at moves in a vacuum. It is Mario's but 100% better, bigger hitbox (reaches as far as crouching G&W in front of him), much more KBG (117), a better angle for killing as an anti air (it kills earlier than Mario's center stage but if you're near a ledge it's even greater) and it also does more damage.

Simply put it is better than Mario's USmash, meaning I'd say one of the best in the game period.

 

[Pazx]

I think ROB deserves to be on the Nair list, his is huge and it's positive on shield if you do it right (the autocancel window begins the frame after the hitbox ends).

Diddy deserves to be on the list for down-B, bananas are one of the best specials in the game. ROB could probably be on the list as well as gyro is better than bombs, turnips, etc.

Sonic uthrow is a good combo throw (/KILL SETUP) and it kills at reasonableish percents on it's own too so it might make the list. Could probably replace Diddy's which is pretty underwhelming in all honesty (never kills + low damage)

I think Kirby's fthrow is his combo throw which is somewhat unique () and might make the list.

MK dtilt is good, frame 3 (?) and can trip which leads into a hard punish.

+1 Ness bair, Doc usmash (also Doc's up-b > Mario's up-b), Tink utilt.

 

[Trifroze]

Do you think it'd be a good idea to split or have separate categories? So, scenario: Falco's Bair is one of the best in terms of power/speed, but in terms of utility, Dr. Mario might have the edge. Looking at throws, it seems this would be a good idea as for F-throw, all, but Sheik and DK who is a special case, are used for killing and not comboing.

Some characters would easily end up in two categories and this wouldn't be very useful for most moves (like smashes) so I'll refrain from it for now, this is partially a very casual sort of thing. Maybe I'll do unique categories like kill moves / projectiles / combo moves / setup moves / pokes and such.

 

[Rizen]

This thread got necro-bumped. I noticed Link's jab was a contender for top 5; that potential is gone now. It had a great jab 1 cancel which was patched out. Now it's a frame 7 combo jab that deals 10%

 

[MarioMeteor]

Jab:
Forward tilt:
Down tilt:
Up tilt:
Dash attack:

Forward smash:
Down smash:
Up smash:

Neutral air:
Forward air:
Down air:
Back air:

Forward throw:
Down throw: Let's just shorten it and say everybody.
Back throw:
Up throw:
Pummel:

 

[Kofu]

Can't bother replying to all that's wrong/right with this but

Forward smash:

No

 

[ARGHETH]

Jab:
Forward tilt:
Down tilt:
Up tilt:
Dash attack:

Forward smash:
Down smash:
Up smash:

Neutral air:
Forward air:
Down air:
Back air:

Forward throw:
Down throw: Let's just shorten it and say everybody.
Back throw:
Up throw:
Pummel:

Where's Uairs and the entire specials category?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Can't bother replying to all that's wrong/right with this but



No

It's pretty damn strong and the endlag is minimal. More than can be said for some other forward smashes.

Where's Uairs and the entire specials category?

I can't be bothered to do specials, but up airs I just clean forgot about.

 

[Kaladin]

Jab:
Forward tilt:
Down tilt: (across the board, down is the best tilt imo.)
Up tilt:
Dash attack:

Forward smash:
Down smash: ...there are good down smashes in this game?
Up smash:

Neutral air:
Forward air:
Down air:
Back air: ()Bair is the strongest ariel across the board this game around, imo.
Up air:

Forward throw:
Down throw:
Back throw: etc
Up throw: best kill, +
Pummel: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: specials to come.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Jab:
Forward tilt:
Down tilt: (across the board, down is the best tilt imo.)
Up tilt:
Dash attack:

Forward smash:
Down smash: ...there are good down smashes in this game?
Up smash:

Neutral air:
Forward air:
Down air:
Back air: ()Bair is the strongest ariel across the board this game around, imo.
Up air:

Forward throw:
Down throw:
Back throw: etc
Up throw: best kill, +
Pummel: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: specials to come.

Roy's down smash is deceivingly strong, Dedede's is pretty strong for how fast it is, and Rosalina's is a great way to tell people to **** off.

 

[Megamang]

It is interesting there is an apparent lack of dsmash usage across the cast. I do know R&L has a unique one since they go front to back and vice versa, hitting on both sides twice. Ganons is ridiculously strong now. Uhhh... pikas lowers his hurtbox lots and snags people out of the air; its a high damage anti air but I wouldnt be surprised if im looking over a lot. Plumbers have solid launch angles on theirs.

...


Greninja has lots of solid 2 move combinations which are deadly. Dtilt usmash is a low commital kill confirm which is safeish on block (wont get you killed, so great for fishing for kills). Utilt uair also kills and is a strong neutral tool for jumpy chars. Also, his fair is now bonkers with his mobility and shieldstun changes.

If you are playing on a strange stage or get grabbed, d/utilted on a plat, prepare to die very very early. Does this synergy make these moves alone great? Many chars could take or leave grens dtilt or usmash, but probably would benefit if they had both.

 

[Planty]

I see people putting Rosalina's dash attack as one of the best, but... why?

It's a quick move at frame 6, but the endlag is atrocious, the damage is low, it combos into nothing, doesn't kill until stupid %, and occasionally doesn't even link properly. It's a poor move that doesn't lend itself to her play style well.

That said, her D-smash, D-tilt, and Dair are stupid good and should be making the list more.

 

[Megamang]

I see people putting Rosalina's dash attack as one of the best, but... why?

It's a quick move at frame 6, but the endlag is atrocious, the damage is low, it combos into nothing, doesn't kill until stupid %, and occasionally doesn't even link properly. It's a poor move that doesn't lend itself to her play style well.

That said, her D-smash, D-tilt, and Dair are stupid good and should be making the list more.

It gives her much needed burst mobility... also, many dash attacks are pretty meh, the only great ones i can think of are oft listed. Also, pikas is a kill move that he can trap landings and stuff short hop approaches with.

 

[williamsga555]

Think Dedede's up air should get a mention. Decently fast, deals good damage, kills reliably when fresh (it's never fresh though lol), can lead into a grab reset, and is all but completely unchallengable.

Not quite sure it'd count as the best, but it deffo is up there, imo.

 

[Planty]

many dash attacks are pretty meh, the only great ones i can think of are oft listed.

If most dash attacks are meh, then lets only list the great ones and not throw a few meh ones in there too. We don't have to put 5 moves of each type if there's only 3 great ones.

 

[Mario766]

Best pummels in terms of DPS are Ike/Jigglypuff, if we're not counting Full Aura Lucario or Buster Shulk.

 

[Kaladin]

Best pummels in terms of DPS are Ike/Jigglypuff, if we're not counting Full Aura Lucario or Buster Shulk.

Wait really? Source?

 

[Mario766]

Without putting in extreme percent, like the chart on Smashboards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0l9zLDMIZ8

Buster Shulk, Ike, Jigglypuff and White Pikmin Olimar do 12 damage in 4 Pummels, which is only exceeded by Lucario doing 13 before the break away from a 0 percent enemy that isn't mashing. At extreme percents.

Lucario at full rage does 98 percent to a 300 percent enemy that isn't mashing
Jigglypuff does 78 percent
Kirby does 73
Palutena does 71
Ike does 69.

http://smashboards.com/threads/pummel-damage-data.372509/

I'd put Jigglypuff/Ike for best pummels because there's no circumstances for it.

 

[Megamang]

Does ikes protect him from luma?


Interesting tidbit about Ryu, his dthrow splash breaks shields, and his Uthrow can hit others for 15%. So... best doubles throws?

 

[Kaladin]

Does ikes protect him from luma?

Does anyone's