Best moves of each type

[Chandeelure]

It's funny how Palutena is one of the best in a lot of attacks, but she still is pretty bad.

 

[HeavyLobster]

It's funny how Palutena is one of the best in a lot of attacks, but she still is pretty bad.

She's not that bad. Ganondorf is the king of having tons of individually great moves without being a particularly good character, mainly because of his bad mobility specs and the fact that he's got some gaping holes in his kit. Also, Ganondorf's Dash Attack is a move that needs to be mentioned as one of the better Dash Attacks, as it does a lot of damage and sets up nicely for followups.

 

[Kofu]

ROB's UThrow is definitively stronger than Marth's. His kills Dedede at 175% on Final Destination whereas Marth's takes until 218% to kill. At the other extreme, ROB kills Jigglypuff at 114%, Marth at 144%.

Of course, we all know Mewtwo will be number one when he's released so you should just put him there as a placeholder.

 

[Potaters]

I disagree with a lot of them being top 5 (Falcon is way overrated), so here are some of my additions, whether it exceeds the 5 limit or not:
Jab:
Dtilt:
Uair:
Dair:
Bair:
Fair:
Nair:
Pivot grab:
Pummel:
Down throw:
Dash Attack:
Usmash:
Fsmash: (with Luma)
Dsmash:

 

[Trifroze]

I disagree with a lot of them being top 5 (Falcon is way overrated), so here are some of my additions, whether it exceeds the 5 limit or not

I disagree, the only one he could potentially be removed from right now is bair. Meanwhile, he could be added to fsmash (has as much range as Ike, kills earlier than most angled downwards, does 20% damage). The reason he's in so many categories is because I know the character well, so I immediately knew where to and where not to put him. The only way he will be kicked out of certain groups is if there are 5 characters who have a better jab, uair or dair for example. Currently, I would not be able to list that many, but I'm not saying this is impossible.

Ganon and Falcon both have a ton of great moves and the reason they aren't S tier is because they're balanced through other weaknesses, Ganon unfortunately much more so. There are still many reserves in other categories and there will probably eventually be a few characters showing up just as much as him.

 

[Pazzo.]

Heck yeah to that Ness F-Air.

 

[Darklink401]

I feel Marth's ftilt should be considered. its fast, has little endlag, and if tippered, can actually send the opponent flying.

Also Villager's dmash buries people for afree usmash, and his dair, the turnips, have lingering hitboxes, come out extremely quickly, have insane priority AND have a 1/3 chance to be the fastest spike in the game.

Also Villager's bair is better than his fair, as it does more damage and has more kill potential.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Falcons Jab is good, but Mega Man's is far superior. It is his bread and butter move.

It is so good that it also replaces his Ftilt and Nair

 

[Darklink401]

Falcons Jab is good, but Mega Man's is far superior. It is his bread and butter move.

It is so good that it also replaces his Ftilt and Nair

Oh yeah, Megaman's lemons are great. Especially with a slow approaching walk, or rhythmic hops.

 

[Dwiz]

Nair:
Uair:
Dsmash:
Zair:
Jab:

 

[David Viran]

Nair:
Uair:
Dsmash:
Zair:

Nair is very good and it might actually deserve to be on here as it has the most range out of all the other nair's accept for maybe shulk's. It also combos harder than most of the other nair's.

Uair is already on there.

dsmash is also on there.

and I agree that her zair should be on there because it actually can do the most damage out of all other zair's by doing 6%.

 

[Trifroze]

Some additions (I've done many before without notifications though):

Jab:
Ftilt:
Utilt:
Nair: (replaced Sheik)
Dair: (replaced Mario)
Dsmash:
Pivot grab:
Dash grab:
Dthrow: (replaced Charizard)
Fthrow:
Dash attack: (replaced G&W)

I'm contemplating putting Mii customs there, brawler's side b 1 would definitely be one of the best and up b 2 the best among the cast, not sure about up b 3.

E: Also regarding the best jab, I'm still confident Falcon and Mac have a slightly more useful one than Mega Man, although it's very difficult to compare them. The main reason I put five characters in every category is because of that. If we want to argue the best one though, it's a tough call between Falcon and Mac as well, but I would still put Falcon first because of gentleman's great base knockback, guaranteed lockdown and the option to combo his first or second jab into grab on everyone who doesn't have a frame 5 or faster nair. On the other hand, Mac has faster startup, does more damage with his 3 hit variation and has much better lockdown on his rapid variation. They have pretty much exact same reach, and have a realistic chance to kill at around 160% when fresh. The other one is basically more defensive and the other one more offensive.

 

[Dwiz]

ZSS's jab comes out on frame one, making it the fastest move in the game. I think it deserves a spot, at least above Palutena

 

[Trifroze]

ZSS's jab comes out on frame one, making it the fastest move in the game. I think it deserves a spot, at least above Palutena

Mac also has a frame 1 jab, but ZSS gets very little reward for hitting it; 6 damage vs Mac's 12/12+ or Falcon's 9/12+ and can't connect them into a grab like Falcon and Luigi. Speaking of Luigi, I think he deserves to be above Palutena as well. I'll put ZSS for 5th though, since it's definitely one of the best.

 

[David Viran]

You can actually up b out of jab on some characters with zss's jab.

 

[Doruge]

I'm contemplating putting Mii customs there

Why wouldn't you?

 

[Trifroze]

Why wouldn't you?

It's questionable whether Miis will be relevant or not with their viability being dependent on rulesets, unfortunately so.

 

[FullMoon]

I think Greninja needs a mention in both u-throw and dash grab. His u-throw is very good for setting up juggles and combos with b-air and u-air as well as being able to kill at around the same %s as Marth I think. His dash grab is very similar to Falcon's as well, having great range and coming out very fast.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Rosalina easily has a top-5 U-Air.

The move has so much range it trumps every attack from above. Rosa is floaty so she can bait air dodges and juggle repeatedly. Did I mention that Luma's U-Air has so much knockback that it can KO at around 10%?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Gonna be frank I think this tiering is useless unless you use it to say the strongest threats to look out for from a specific move, and for that to really be useful you'd have to provide a sentence for each move.

Eg. "Falcon's Dash grab has an impeccable slide to increase enemy displacement, and mixed with his top-of-the-line speed, great effective range".

Then someone can quickly go "Hey this guy has one of the best X in the game? Because of this? Going to keep that in mind". Same with the recovery thread but it has tons of explanations in its change log so it is informative.

 

[dragontamer]

Pivot grab:

I raise you Kirby's Pivot Grab.

 

[Trifroze]

Gonna be frank I think this tiering is useless unless you use it to say the strongest threats to look out for from a specific move, and for that to really be useful you'd have to provide a sentence for each move.

Eg. "Falcon's Dash grab has an impeccable slide to increase enemy displacement, and mixed with his top-of-the-line speed, great effective range".

Then someone can quickly go "Hey this guy has one of the best X in the game? Because of this? Going to keep that in mind". Same with the recovery thread but it has tons of explanations in its change log so it is informative.

I'll make sure to do that after the initial list/rankings is a bit more complete.

 

[Lavani]

I raise you Kirby's Pivot Grab.

I raise you Bowser's tether pivot grab.

 

[DarkDeity15]

's Jab 1, Dsmash, Nair, Bair, tilts and bombs are all amazing. Just saying. If you have any doubts then just ask me what's up.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I agree link has some really good sword moves in this smash

 

[ama99]

's Jab 1, Dsmash, Nair, Bair, tilts and bombs are all amazing. Just saying. If you have any doubts then just ask me what's up.

Jab and Bombs are definitely among the best in the game.

 

[Trifroze]

Additions:

Fair:
Fsmash:
Usmash:
Side b:
Down b:
Grab:
Pivot grab:
Uthrow:
Bthrow:

Marth's and Lucina's fsmashes were a lot weaker than I remembered so they're out, same with Rosalina. Not sure why I didn't put especially Wario and Pikachu into down b earlier or DK into bthrow.

 

[dragontamer]

Marth's and Lucina's fsmashes were a lot weaker than I remembered so they're out

What? There are five 10f FSmashes in the game:

1. Samus
2. Marth
3. Lucina
4. Pit
5. Dark Pit

Of these, Marth's is the strongest. Tipper-Marth FSmash is the 3rd strongest FSmash in the game (KOing later than only King Dedede and Bowser), while simultaneously being tied for the fastest FSmash. Yes, Tipper Marth FSmash KOs earlier than Ike's and Gannon's FSmashes.

Tipper-Marth FSmash is the most threatening aspect of the character, KOing at absurdly low percentages at speeds you cannot imagine.

Lucina has the 2nd strongest 10f FSmash, but its KO potential is more reasonable. Probably not a "best in the game", so I'm fine with it off the list. Still, its a major threat, and has more range, speed, and knockback than wtf Luigi's FSmash.

Capt. Falcon's FSmash is a bit slow to be on the top-list IMO as well, especially since it is only a bit stronger than Lucina's. Heck, LittleMac's FSmash is much faster than Capt. Falcon's, while delivering more KO potential and nasty super-armor frames.

 

[Kofu]

I need to do testing but the Pits' FThrow is pretty strong in terms of knockback. I've had it kill me before (that's probably what I get for playing a light character, lol). It might be worth adding. I've had Sonic's FThrow kill me before too, but that one was mainly percent and rage. Still, it sends mostly vertically which is unusual for an FThrow.

I'm a little averse to listing the best special moves at the moment for two reasons. One, with the exception of up specials, they tend to have wildly differing purposes and it's hard to compare one to another. Second, if you're including the Mii's moves, you ought to include the custom variations of all specials. That means there are three times as many options for each of the specials than for all other moves. It gets tricky since most people aren't aware of all the moves or at least don't know what all of them do. I'd split them off as a separate category and up the number listed for them to 10 if you're going to include them.

 

[dragontamer]

Nair:

No Pikachu Nair? Or Pac-Man Nair?

Pikachu / Pac-Man Nairs are basically the same. But otherwise, they're like Luigi's Nair, except superior in every way you can possibly imagine. Higher damage, KOs earlier, better gimping angle, and also come out at 3f (faster than Fox, Ness, and ZSS Nairs)

Pacman has a slight damage advantage over Pikachu's (8.5% vs 10%). So the tiebreaker goes to PacMan for best Nair IMO, Pikachu for 2nd best Nair.

Nairs are used very differently though. Speed / Strength is not the only thing. Rob's and Charizard's Nairs are exceptionally good at controlling space with big hitboxes. But if you're going purely on a speed / power list (OOS Nair), Pikachu and Pac-Man are straight up the best.

I'm going to give Charizard an advantage over Rob's, because they're similar, but Charizard's is faster.

Dedede's Nair is probably the best "meaty fast fall" Nair in the game. That has more to do with his lulzy fast fall though. I'd say Dedede's Nair is unconditionally superior to Fox's.

Bair:

Jiggly's Bair is stronger than all of those except Gannondorf's.

And while its a bit slower than C. Falcon / Gannondorf's Bair, Jiggly also has 5 jumps, making it easier to use that crazy-strong Bair offstage for an early kill.

Jiggly's Bair is stronger than a lot of character's FSmashes...

Pummel:

Lucario's Pummel is much much faster, and gets bonus damage from Aura. Very low damage without Aura though, but its worth considering.

Uthrow:

By KO percentages it is Lucario, Rob, and Toon Link in that order.

Fthrow:

By KO percentages, it is Wii Fit trainer, Bowser, Wario in that order.

Bthrow:

By KO Percentages it is Ness, Villiager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mario, then a whole bunch tied for 5th place.

 

[Lavani]

tbh MK's uthrow is probably his least-used throw unless going for a platform KO or fighting Rosaluma. I guess that's probably reason enough for it to be ranked since there isn't really much competition as far as uthrows go, it just strikes me as a little funny.

Anyway, some random thoughts:

Nair:
Bair:
Uair:

Neutral B:

Dash Grab:

Uthrow:
Fthrow: , maybe
Bthrow:

Dash attack:

 

[Trifroze]

What? There are five 10f FSmashes in the game:

1. Samus
2. Marth
3. Lucina
4. Pit
5. Dark Pit

Of these, Marth's is the strongest. Tipper-Marth FSmash is the 3rd strongest FSmash in the game (KOing later than only King Dedede and Bowser), while simultaneously being tied for the fastest FSmash. Yes, Tipper Marth FSmash KOs earlier than Ike's and Gannon's FSmashes.

Tipper-Marth FSmash is the most threatening aspect of the character, KOing at absurdly low percentages at speeds you cannot imagine.

Lucina has the 2nd strongest 10f FSmash, but its KO potential is more reasonable. Probably not a "best in the game", so I'm fine with it off the list. Still, its a major threat, and has more range, speed, and knockback than wtf Luigi's FSmash.

Capt. Falcon's FSmash is a bit slow to be on the top-list IMO as well, especially since it is only a bit stronger than Lucina's. Heck, LittleMac's FSmash is much faster than Capt. Falcon's, while delivering more KO potential and nasty super-armor frames.

I could still agree on Marth's fsmash being among the top 5 in the game, but I don't think it's as clear as you do. It has to be tippered to be any good meaning that despite its quick startup, you often won't have enough time to space it properly and have to resort to another option. Additionally, it has a ton of afterlag.

Regarding the video, every fsmash on my list bar Luigi can kill at those percentages at that spot. Here are some kill %s from my testing. All were done at the center of Smashville on Villager with DI and without rage. Arguably the most common stage, and the most neutral opponent regarding weight and idle animations.

Kill %, startup frames, afterlag, reach in Omega Windy Hill Zone squares, damage

Marth: 65% tipper / 125% normal, 10 frames, medium afterlag, 7 squares, 21% tipper / 13% normal
Lucina: 100%, 10 frames, medium afterlag, 7 squares, 15%
Ganondorf: 65% close / 80% far, 19 frames, medium afterlag, 8 squares, 24%
Captain Falcon: 80% (angled downwards), 19 frames, medium afterlag, 8½ squares, 20% (angled upwards/downwards)
Little Mac: 85% sweet / 100% sour, 14 frames, small afterlag, 8½ squares, 19% sweet / 17% sour
Wario: 90%, 18 frames, large afterlag, 6 squares, 19%
Luigi: 90-100% (depends on angle and DI), 12 frames, small afterlag, 4½ squares, 15%

Little Mac's is still the best (listed as #1 since I made the topic), but I think you're underestimating Falcon's fsmash. It's a bit slower, but it's certainly stronger than Mac's and unlike Marth, Mac or Ganon, it's not affected by spacing at all. Falcon also pulls himself back before releasing the smash, making it excellent for evading and punishing well-spaced approaches. Mac, Falcon and Ganon also have considerably more reach than Marth or Lucina.

Luigi is there because he has excellent kill power compared to his startup without the need for spacing, while having very little cooldown for an fsmash. Lucina's is a competitor for 5th since it has more reach and is a bit faster, but Luigi's kills earlier, does slightly more damage and is a lot safer to throw out.

This information makes me realize Wario's fsmash isn't very good though. I'll replace him with Marth.

Mega Man is a unique case, I basically put him there as a placeholder because I couldn't think of a better one. Perhaps Lucina deserves it more.

Jiggly's Bair is stronger than all of those except Gannondorf's.

And while its a bit slower than C. Falcon / Gannondorf's Bair, Jiggly also has 5 jumps, making it easier to use that crazy-strong Bair offstage for an early kill.

Jiggly's Bair is stronger than a lot of character's FSmashes...

Robin kills a lot earlier than Puff, and Falcon kills slightly earlier while having less landing lag and a lingering hitbox. ZSS and Puff kill at around the same %. DK's bair kills a fair bit later than any of those but has much more reach and can be used twice in a single shorthop, making it great for approaching and for offstage kills.

 

[Luigi player]

Looks somewhat accurate for the most part, but there are some obvious mistakes:

Bair: is definitely top 5, could be as well
Dair: , , ... (I'd actually argue that Villager has the best Dair)

Fsmash: and fsmashes are ass.
, , , , maybe ?
Usmash: Usmash is better than . Also maybe intead of .
Dsmash: dsmash isn't too great anymore.
Good dsmashes: , , , ,

Neutral B: instead of
SideB: instead of . Not sure about .
DownB: Why is there? isn't that great either anymore. should be on there, maybe too.

Grab: definitely , maybe ?
Dashgrab: , , . Not sure about

Uthrow: ?
Bthrow: , , (top 3)

Dash Attack: instead of

 

[Kofu]

No Pikachu Nair? Or Pac-Man Nair?

Pikachu / Pac-Man Nairs are basically the same. But otherwise, they're like Luigi's Nair, except superior in every way you can possibly imagine. Higher damage, KOs earlier, better gimping angle, and also come out at 3f (faster than Fox, Ness, and ZSS Nairs)

Pacman has a slight damage advantage over Pikachu's (8.5% vs 10%). So the tiebreaker goes to PacMan for best Nair IMO, Pikachu for 2nd best Nair.

Nairs are used very differently though. Speed / Strength is not the only thing. Rob's and Charizard's Nairs are exceptionally good at controlling space with big hitboxes. But if you're going purely on a speed / power list (OOS Nair), Pikachu and Pac-Man are straight up the best.

Luigi's NAir does 12% and KOs at 165%, Pac-Man's does 10% and KOs at 186%, Pikachu's does 8% and kills at 193%. Luigi's kills closer to the ceiling while Pac's and Pika's doss better closer to the sides. Not very comparable IMO.

I'll take actual testing to KO percentages from Thinkaman's table. Rage will lower these numbers somewhat in an actual match but the point still stands.

(UThrow) By KO percentages it is Lucario, Rob, and Toon Link in that order.

Both Mario and Lucario gave to be at 171% for Luke's UThrow to kill (and Mario has to be over 250% for the throw to kill if Lucario is at 75%). ROB's does the trick at 143%, Toon Link's at 187%, Link's at 173%, Marth's at 179%, and Sonic's at 196%. Next!

(FThrow) By KO percentages, it is Wii Fit trainer, Bowser, Wario in that order.

This one's a bit tricky to test but this'll be close. Bowser's kills at 197%, WFT's at 256%, Zelda's at 257%, Pit's at 204%, Wario's at 206%, and Sonic's at 187%. Done from the center of FD, in actual matches it'll be lower if closer to the ledge with the exception of Sonic's whose FThrow mainly launches vertically.

(BThrow) By KO Percentages it is Ness, Villiager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mario, then a whole bunch tied for 5th place.

Ness's kills at 125%, Villager's at 154%, WFT's at 234%, Mario's at 192%, Sonic's at 171%, DK's at 186%, Falcon's at 205%, and Toon Link's at 168%. Sonic's is deceptive, he does a back flip to bring the opponent closer to the blastline before he throws.

Sonic's throws are all good, that alone earns him a spot on one of the grab lists IMO.

 

[Thinkaman]

Jab:
Ftilt:
Utilt:
Dtilt:



Fsmash:
Usmash:
Dsmash:



Dash attack:



Nair:
Fair:
Bair:
Uair:
Dair:



Neutral B: (Thunder+) (Zigzag Shot)
Side B: (Super Speed) (Dash Slash) (Close Combat)
Up B: (Jumbo Hoop) (Dark Fists)
Down B: (Timber Counter) (Lightweight) (Reflector Void)



Grabs:
Pummel:



Uthrow: no idea
Dthrow:
Fthrow:
Bthrow:

 

[Luigi player]

Ness's kills at 125%, Villager's at 154%, WFT's at 234%, Mario's at 192%, Sonic's at 171%, DK's at 186%, Falcon's at 205%, and Toon Link's at 168%.

Interesting. I was pretty sure there were some mistakes with Thinkamans KO % list, but there are more than I thought. Good to have that pointed out.

 

[Kofu]

Interesting. I was pretty sure there were some mistakes with Thinkamans KO % list, but there are more than I thought. Good to have that pointed out.

I haven't looked too closely at the list but from what I can see the biggest problems are in the throws. It's also possible that it overlooks any prior hits on the move and only takes into account the final hit when extra damage would have made the move KO earlier.

Also, IIRC WFT can follow up on her BThrow at low percents which would still make it decent.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Uthrow: no idea

Does anyone have a good Uthrow in this game? Most of them just don't seem useful at all in Brawl/Smash 4 physics, with Dthrows usually being better for followups and F/Bthrows being better for positioning.

 

[adom4]

Does anyone have a good Uthrow in this game? Most of them just don't seem useful at all in Brawl/Smash 4 physics, with Dthrows usually being better for followups and F/Bthrows being better for positioning.

R.O.B's U-throw is a pretty good kill move, it usually kills at around 120%.

 

[DarkDeity15]

DownB: Why is there?

Because Link's bombs are amazing for conversions, mindgames, pressure and spacing.