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would that justify a lower tier placement? i thought that the tier list is based on characters being played at the top of their metagame, essentially basing placements off m2k, ally, dehf and adhd. snake being hard to master should not come into it then; ally clearly does extremely well with him.
With merely that example, you run into the problems that were mentioned earlier on this thread. The problem is that when you focus on only a few people you start to base the character off of human skill rather than actual character potiential. Looking back at the facts presented in this thread, no other snakes really other than Ally place well in tournaments constantly.
Those 4 players are not equally skilled. Basing things off the top of the metagame at the time is the reason people didn't realize that Jiggs was good in Melee till 2008.
Strength and weaknesses can be neglected due to match-up results. All strength and weaknesses of a character related to recovery, surviability, killing power, etc. is already addressed in match-up results. Therefore, a characters strenths and weaknesses are properly reflected through match-up results. If a character has more hard counters than favorable match-ups, this means they have more weaknesses than strengths. A few weaknesses and strengths due however transcend match-up results though. And that is through stage selection. Of this, you should focus some area of influence.
Average consistency as far as performance in matchups however is probably higher among Diddy players.R@zer is the only other snake player who places relatively consistently and it's mostly just because of his region... and even then he'll still lose to "random" characters.
yea sorry that not everyone knows everything about every single character in the game.
What? Why the hell would you post what you think about Snake if you know you're inexperienced, and if you know that your logic is probably flawed from that inexperience? That's just stupid.yea sorry that not everyone knows everything about every single character in the game.
this
Who said I'm inexperienced? While I'm by far no expert on Snake, I do think I know enough about him to post my opinion about him. That I did, and if it's not completely correct, then well, big deal. There's enough people who corrected me in the course of the thread, even before it was made public, and I enjoy the fact that you seem to think I didn't get anything new out of this thread.
THAT SAYS YOU'RE INEXPERIENCED.
yea really, those morons who don't know every little detail about every character should really get kicked out. oh wait... that's all of them.
SUPER THEORY FIGHTER GO!yea really, those morons who don't know every little detail about every character should really get kicked out. oh wait... that's all of them.
@etecoon:
I would call, for instance, the UTilt not being normal due to its hitbox, thus borderline broken, yes.
A Snake who does camp very well is indeed hard to approach, especially with lower tiered characters, no matter what you think.
Jab, FTilt and DACUS all are good matters of approaching/offense, you can't tell me they aren't.
Snake does literally wreck several characters, especially in Mid and Low Tier.
Dedede is indeed considered being the only true disadvantage Snake has in the cast, but not by everyone. You might not be one of these people.
So, out of your 5 quotes, 3 are based on opinions and experiences, and that differ from yours, especially those 2 regarding matchups. Only quotes 2 and 3 could be wrong, but to my knowledge, they aren't; if they are, I stand corrected. I wrote far more than what you quoted though, and calling someone over small 2 details out of a big post to be a noob and saying **** like "why did he get into the BR" is extremely petty.
Alright, so I stand corrected about him - and yes, I do play characters that get beaten by him. But pretty much all of matchup knowledge is based on personal (!) experience and opinion, thus the only thing both sides can find a spot to go from, it's his actual character traits.
people who've actually tested utilt's hitbox generally don't think this, in terms of zoning the blind spot on utilt is actually a major character flaw for snake
hard to approach =/= nearly unapproachable, and snake really isn't that hard to approach period "no matter what you think" < GREAT DEBATING SKILLS THERE
all of these are horridly unsafe on the block or whiff and jab/DACUS are sometimes unsafe on hit. these attacks are situational and usually only good for punishing
snake doesn't wreck anyone, in terms of shutting down low tiers, he's probably the worst in A tier and some B tier characters do it better.
I can't think of any snake players except cändy that think this way, there are a lot of ignorant people that main other characters(mostly meta knight's because they don't want him banned) that hype snake up to be a lot more than he is
considering that you people are the ones that decide whether or not MK gets banned and general ruleset things, it is concerning when we see that they apparently select people at random these days
I think M2K is more normal than Ally. They both simply have unnaturally fast reaction and processing ability, with Ally's being faster than M2Ks.
Everything about this is wrong.
If I recall, I remember someone from another forum explaining that any tier list should be based off of "how easy it is to use X character." What you said confirmed it, and since Snake takes a lot of skill to be good with, then he doesn't deserve the 2nd position if characters below him are easier to play and be awesome with.
