BBR Weekly Character Discussion #5: Snake

[-Ran]

We never did get how long people are in shield stun from it, but the shield push of F-Tilt isn't tremendous like MK's down-smash. F-Tilt, if you aren't canceling it into the 2nd hit, is a move that takes 32 frames, with a hitbox that comes out on frame 7 and ends on frame 8. So that mean's there are 24 frames of lag. Similar moves have around five to ten frames of Shield stun. With 7 frames to drop shield, that means someone has around 7-12 frames to punish Snake.

I feel this is information that we need to know. Lol.

 

[etecoon]

maybe we could reverse engineer it? we know grab works so just move up from there, MK's usmash is 8 frames so you could try that next(need someone to help test because it needs to be a sliding shield or powershielded...)

 

[Attila_]

diddy - glide toss oos, oos fair/bair
mk - sl oos, oos aerials
falco - dair oos (not that great), usmash oos
marth - ds oos, fair oos, nair oos, sideb oos

etc etc.

 

[tibs7]

i dont think diddy can fair....and the toss i think trades hits if spaced decently.

 

[JesiahTEG]

That's one of the reasons I stopped posting in the back room; It's a bunch of people debating who are good posters, but when it comes to things like discussing Snake, Ally's word should be taken 100% over anyone elses. His mastery of that character is beyond anything anyone has come close with. It's kinda weird to read everyone else debating with him.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Look at overseas metagame. It is clearly different than it is here. I would hope that with proof like that that there are many different approches of using each character to overcome a particular problem. I would also like that instead of merely relying upon one person, everyone can add to the cooking pot as it were to try to generate something different. The only problem is when you use rotten or chemically altered vegatables over fresh and organic vegatables.

 

[Pierce7d]

I don't take Ally's word about things for Snake. He's a simple character with simple options, and I don't think he's that good.

For all of you disregarding . . . I think it was shmot's conclusion about grenades . . . you're the foolish ones. You SHOULDN'T be getting hit by grenades often at all. A grenade gets pulled, you know that in three seconds, you need to NOT be vulnerable in it's range. Most people do this by OVER-CAMPING, or they approach incorrectly, and hence often hit grenades.

I typically do not get hit by grenades, and often, if I do get hit by grenades, it's because I made a mistake.

As for punishing Snake's ftilt . . . it has implied safety. Ftilt1 might have lag, but it can be followed by ftilt2. If we disregard reaction time, and you buffered a grab as soon as ftilt1 hit your shield, and ftilt2 was used at the first possible moment, I believe characters with a frame 6 grab (the fastest and most common) would grab it, but trade the hit (grab armor). However, if Snake is hitting you with an ftilt, he shouldn't be in grab range.

Because of this, staying in shield is a reasonably good idea. Just don't freeze up so long that you reset the trap multiple times.

OH! I kept forgetting to mention this. Ftilt 2 doesn't have enough lag for ICs to Dash Grab (they can punish, just not with grab). A running or power shield obviously helps, but it's reasonably safe to do to pressure ICs shield.

 

[Takeover1806]

I def agree with Ally that Snake is not a dominant as people make him seem.
I still think that falco is better than snake and that has been my opinion even before Dehf has recently won Apex.
I currently think snake is 3rd best character even though I really don't look in who is the best or what not. People think that picking the best character will get you the win in this game but in all reality the best player wins at the end of the day.
Any character can be successful in this game and it's been proven in every video game that's been played competitively. Look at people like Axe, San, Taj, Armada, Kage, Nick riddle, Esam, & others. They might have to work harder to get to the top but when they utilize a characters full potential anything is possible.

Now with that said Ally is a straight beast and if it was not for him snake would not be where he is today. All of us top snakes sucks ***, we can hardly get passed above average placings which is kinda sad.
Even though I don't go to many tourney's local or national, my goal is to develop my game to a level that competes with the best players. Once I get money to attend some nationals, I'm def going to improve my game to a level where I'm placing top 5.

 

[Dratler]

Snake is over rated....it's very easy for a skilled fast player ( Marth, Sonic, Diddy Kong etc) to get past all of there defenses and total own him....and most Snakes spam away....

 

[Technodeath]

You make it sound so simple Dratler.. Do you have any idea of the current metagame?

Sure, they're quick, but if the Snake's doing the camping and using his dynamic walls properly, it isnt exactly easy for anyone to approach him. I could be wrong here.

I do agree with people that Snake doesnt belong in second, and that Falco should be there. Ally and Snake is like San and Ike. I do believe that Snake is still top 4. People just need to pull their heads out and do well.

 

[napZzz]

Ally has player blocks just like anyone else imo, he never says a matchup is hard he just says he cant do it, lol. But when it comes to his opinions he's generally right, marth v snake played properly can be very rough for snake compared to prior opinions, its definitely even at this point and maybe leaning in marths favor

noone questions mk when m2k talks because...ITS ****ING METAKNIGHT. You'd be stupid to bother with it. Call what I'm saying "scrubby" or say I'm a noob, but the fact is that this character can beat everyone in the game played properly, but thats a whole different topic

Snake on the other hand is a simple, limited character as the skill level of players increases, because his options compared to others just isn't the same, and theres only so much he can do. Noone just attacks snake alone, but the argument of snake as a character being limited is extremely legitimate, do you know anything about this game?

While pierces post might have been a little exaggerated, alot of it is true and the brawl community really needs to stop sucking and just learn things like this to improve as a whole with matchups and gameplay in general, I'm not trying to say I'm the greatest player in the world but at least I'm trying to learn the game for what it is now and what it might be in the future (/side rant)

 

[etecoon]

marth v snake played properly can be very rough for snake compared to prior opinions, its definitely even at this point and maybe leaning in marths favor

this isn't really a new thing

marth beats snake,ask nic64. get marth'd snake mains buahahahaha

neo calling it over a year ago : )


also it is fairly difficult to approach snake if he camps properly. the problem is that once someone gets in, they put tremendous amounts of pain on him and his camping isn't really the most productive to begin with(nades give you an enormous amount of time to ensure that you're not having them explode on you)

 

[Pierce7d]

I do not find it difficult to approach Snake ever. Grenades =/= a real wall to a good Marth

 

[napZzz]

tipped fairs on snakes shield are stupid

 

[Limeee]

marths fair is the dumbest ****ing move in the game

especially when a marth full hops it