-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
BBR Game: Final Fantasy 6 Mafia
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
OS my vote shouldn't be on adumbrodeus, or anyone for that matter. Last thing I did was unvote.
I didn't vote for myself, or for two people, either.
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Just to clear things up, who here actually thinks aggression is a scum tell?
Hint: it isn't.
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Furthermore, Reflex, you seem highly hypocritical to me, as now you are being the aggressor.
In any case, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the one to tell you this, but in Mafia, you can retract votes as easily as you make them. That vote is not set in stone. I do want to see what he says, though, and between an FoS and a Vote, it makes no difference to me what I must do to make him talk. That is how the game is played.
In any case, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the one to tell you this, but in Mafia, you can retract votes as easily as you make them. That vote is not set in stone. I do want to see what he says, though, and between an FoS and a Vote, it makes no difference to me what I must do to make him talk. That is how the game is played.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Ah, noticed this, I think he's probably referring to my explicit claim that A. I know who Cyan is and he's not swordgard, and B. that Cyan is town-aligned, both of which proved to be correct.
I can expand on what exactly the connection was, prior to his unfortunate demise, but it won't help with scum-hunting at this point because it was a one time thing so at the moment, it's useless.
Pierce is busy sinking shots against the miami heat.
Hey, someone had to make this joke.
Hey, someone had to make this joke.
Aggression isn't scummy in itself, but you fired back as soon as Marc questioned you, without having a reason to follow until someone asked you to elaborate.
I am being aggressive with this because it seems off to me. You didn't have any particular animosity toward me at the time, so I'm not showing signs of being merely self-serving in that.
And I can make distinctions between the FoS and a vote as much as I like, and there's no valid reason for to think that you won't.
How was there a high chance of more than one Masonry existing? Swordgard/Chibo is a confirmed full-Town Masonry, no doubt you and your partner would claim Town as well. The fact is that I've very rarely been in a game with more than one Masonry on Town's side, so based on that it's very likely you or your partner is scum. Or both, because claiming Mason as Mafia is a viable strategy. I'd be wary of my partner if I were you, the same goes for your partner. Even if you and your partner are both Town, the claim you made didn't serve any purpose other than telling Mafia who not to gun for right now. Even if you somehow disagree with all of this, that doesn't validate your knee-jerk vote for me (which initially you didn't even post reasoning for).
Disagree. In a game like this you'll get away with aggressiveness because so many people are fairly passive... they won't be able to blame you for wrong choices all that much.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
It isn't primarily because alot of players tend to be passive.
So being aggressive can only do more good than harm since it does provoke the sharing of information.
If anything, at this point of the game, I would find it scummy to say that aggression is a sign of scum.
I'm a double's genius
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
There's a difference between being suspicious and starting crusades against people for looking at you the wrong way, this is the second time that Bardull's done the latter, and as I said before, I don't like it.
Being stupidly aggressive just divides town and makes it more difficult to make necessary lynches.
Being stupidly aggressive just divides town and makes it more difficult to make necessary lynches.
BarDulL
Town Vampire
BarDulL
Town Vampire
There was a very good reason why I claimed Mason. Depending on how OS's Swordgard modkill post is interpreted, it's still very possible that Chibo is scum. Did you see my theory? No one has managed to verify that Chibo is, without a doubt, not scum, because no one knows how Swordgard's ability works. Everyone is merely making an assumption at this point.
I am not sure why me claiming Mason "tells mafia who not to gun for." Can you elaborate?
As for being aggressive, I contest that in a game where most players are passive, it takes an aggressive player to get them talking. Ergo, that is why I have been aggressive. To tell me not to be aggressive seems anti-town to me, wouldn't you say?
BarDulL
Town Vampire
If it makes you feel better, the vote was probably more deserving as an FoS rather than an actual vote. Semantics aside, however, whether or not it was a vote or an FoS changes nothing, because the context of it is all the same.
From how it was worded it seemed like it wasn't a direct message from Swordgard. It's pretty close to ******* modding if it was. You seem to acknowledge there's a consensus on that, so why not try to work with that?
I don't like to spell this out, but might as well now. The more information Mafia has about which player has which role, the easier it is for them to control the game and find power roles. They now know they don't have to take you out if they're looking for a possible Doc. They might even be able to make a good guess on who your partner is (if he isn't Mafia), which is another possible target saved for later.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be aggressive, I'm saying it doesn't clear you.
Where did Omni go?
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Town didn't get a Day 2 lynch because the mod kill on Swordgard ended Day 2, while Mafia got a Night 2 kill. Virtually no information for Town has been obtained from the previous three deaths because of this. That seems pretty close to ******* modding, too.
Anyway, because there is room for error, I refuse to accept any kind of consensus until my theory is disproven. Accepting the consensus that Chibo must be Town when my theory has yet to be disproven would be detrimental to Town. If Chibo miraculously turns out to be Town, then fine; but it doesn't change the fact that there is room for differing interpretations of the Swordgard message.
This assertion seems heavily based on meta from other games. I need not remind you that it is possible that OS did not follow Mafia protocol as you know it.
I am aware that my "aggression" doesn't clear me, but it doesn't convict me either. That is why I initially stated that "aggression is not a scum tell."I'm not saying you shouldn't be aggressive, I'm saying it doesn't clear you.
Where did Omni go?
im here, marc.
this is looking like a crap shot even after my reread. scum can blend in so easily because we have inactive players like dastrn and useless players like chibo flipping town.
at the moment i just want to get rid of weak players that i would hate to have in lylo
this is looking like a crap shot even after my reread. scum can blend in so easily because we have inactive players like dastrn and useless players like chibo flipping town.
at the moment i just want to get rid of weak players that i would hate to have in lylo
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
kupo!
sorry I promise to get back in this game very soon
sorry I promise to get back in this game very soon
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
So are you suggesting possibly lynching fellow townies due to them being dead weight?
I'm a double's genius
He's suggesting we focus all our votes on inactives whether they appear scummy or not so once they are gone and we have only active members remaining, we can increase the chances of town actually mafia since at that point everyone will be participating and it will be easier to zone in on scum.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
That's exactly what i said, though in a much gentler manner to be sure.
I suggest giving Reflex the bandwagon if he goes inactive again.
I do think we need to end day 3 with a lynch. I would prefer if people were a bit more aggressive in regards to inactives or those pulling townie down.
I'm a double's genius.
This is pretty much necessary at this point, with two days going by without a lynch, so long as we don't have a compelling argument for lynching an active player. We can waste inactives at any time, so it seems like less trouble in that, though it definitely takes away from the question of who to go after. I'll be upset if mafia ends up being someone who's really inactive.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I find it ironic seeing as how you have been one of the most inactive for the past 2 days.
I also find it isconcerting that you're only now posting now that you realize you might actually be lynched!
I'm a double's genius
Reflex was, from what I gather, having big assignments due + MLG.
Another day with lynching a townie would mean 6 townies gone out of 15. Personally I feel things are starting to look bad for us :\
Over all the main focal points of the first two days was your aggression against Omni, the pressure adum received and the bandwagon for lynching reflex (day one). Adum has, in my eyes, been quite notable throughout the game, hes said and stated things that he was aware of (only from what I can guess, that he knew Scamp was Cyan [why else would he have said its not possible unless theres a second Cyan]) and as Scamp died that night I am still highly suspicious of him; he set himself up as a sacrifice of sorts, but has laid off such claims at this point, if I become certain I would be happy to call his bluff.
Bardull has set a connection between Omni, Marc and himself. Those three being the only main interactors to Bardulls aggression.
Edrees has kept a reasonably quiet game as well, never allowing himself to be in the spot light, so I would definitely be interested in his thoughts of the game thus far as well.
Joel gave a somewhat random vote to adum and has not allowed himself to be a centre of attention at all either. With joels vote on adum I wonder whether I can feel there is a notable connection.
With reflex almost reaching lynch, if he is townie, the bandwagon of voters for him are at least worth further interest with the days to come. If Reflex does get lynched and he flips scum, there is reasoning for question for the active players such as myself, bardull and marc who werent keen to rush the lynch.
ShadowLink84, Edrees, .joel, Omni, Adumbrodeus, Hilt.
I know edrees has wanted the day to end before Friday (etc etc weekend etc etc), but all six of those people wanting to end the third day within moments of its inception just irk me in the wrong way. Reflex has been the goto guy for the Lynch three days in a row now, so it would be close to fact that if we were to reach the end of a day (which would have been the case of day 2 without a modkill) without any real distinction he would have been the one to go (even though Day 2 was aiming at Chibo; swordgard not willing to tack on a vote was a reason for me to hold off as well [I was pretty sure he was town]), why ignore the opportunity to gain more information?
You could say that there isnt much to go off, but those same people are the ones hypothesising that there are a lot of power roles in this game (and at least two masonry groups... if we are to believe bardull). Information flowing should be a lot MORE than this if we are to assume these things.
Also Pierce7d needs a prod immediently. If the role is meant to be inactive it has to go OS. The only thing Id hope for is that the day doesnt end with his death.
Another day with lynching a townie would mean 6 townies gone out of 15. Personally I feel things are starting to look bad for us :\
I would not say very quiet, my post count in this thread is less of course. However Ive felt for the most part a lot of posts by a lot of parties have been more discussing semantics / possibilities of the game infrastructure than actual scum hunting. I have honestly not been overly swayed by one persons reasonings on why someone is scum at all, but I really cannot think of any that have been said that has actually been convincing.
Over all the main focal points of the first two days was your aggression against Omni, the pressure adum received and the bandwagon for lynching reflex (day one). Adum has, in my eyes, been quite notable throughout the game, hes said and stated things that he was aware of (only from what I can guess, that he knew Scamp was Cyan [why else would he have said its not possible unless theres a second Cyan]) and as Scamp died that night I am still highly suspicious of him; he set himself up as a sacrifice of sorts, but has laid off such claims at this point, if I become certain I would be happy to call his bluff.
Bardull has set a connection between Omni, Marc and himself. Those three being the only main interactors to Bardulls aggression.
Edrees has kept a reasonably quiet game as well, never allowing himself to be in the spot light, so I would definitely be interested in his thoughts of the game thus far as well.
Joel gave a somewhat random vote to adum and has not allowed himself to be a centre of attention at all either. With joels vote on adum I wonder whether I can feel there is a notable connection.
With reflex almost reaching lynch, if he is townie, the bandwagon of voters for him are at least worth further interest with the days to come. If Reflex does get lynched and he flips scum, there is reasoning for question for the active players such as myself, bardull and marc who werent keen to rush the lynch.
ShadowLink84, Edrees, .joel, Omni, Adumbrodeus, Hilt.
I know edrees has wanted the day to end before Friday (etc etc weekend etc etc), but all six of those people wanting to end the third day within moments of its inception just irk me in the wrong way. Reflex has been the goto guy for the Lynch three days in a row now, so it would be close to fact that if we were to reach the end of a day (which would have been the case of day 2 without a modkill) without any real distinction he would have been the one to go (even though Day 2 was aiming at Chibo; swordgard not willing to tack on a vote was a reason for me to hold off as well [I was pretty sure he was town]), why ignore the opportunity to gain more information?
You could say that there isnt much to go off, but those same people are the ones hypothesising that there are a lot of power roles in this game (and at least two masonry groups... if we are to believe bardull). Information flowing should be a lot MORE than this if we are to assume these things.
Also Pierce7d needs a prod immediently. If the role is meant to be inactive it has to go OS. The only thing Id hope for is that the day doesnt end with his death.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
It's impossible to post SOMETHING out of how many minutes in a week?
No johns.
Problem is we have those who rarely post (reflex), those who have been less than helpful (Chibo) that regardless of WHAT occurs, we run into issues.
First day no lynch.
Second day Swordgard was mod killed.
Third day, lynch or ending with a mafia kill at night (unless there is a doctor role in this game but I dont recall any white mages in FF6.)
At least with a lynch, we have the chance of getting scum.
On the other hand, unless we have a vigilante, townie falls prey to the mafia at night.
It is exactly as Omni says, at this state of the game, it is extremely difficult to tell scum apart from townie, simply because there has been very little information derived over these past few days.
Band wagon=/=attempt to lynch.
more often than not it is pressure, which obviously failed since Reflex remained inactive and the votes weren't close to what was required.
Pressuring someone with votes does not mean they will be lynched, since if you noticed, there were unvotes.
Its only on the third day that anyone has really wanted to lynch Reflex.
Since we're pretty much still stuck on day 1.
We have no leads as to who is scum because nothing is getting done.
let alone I ask, what information?
We haven't gotten ANYTHING.
The closest idea to someone being considered scum was Chibo, and at the very worst he was being considered an independent.
I am quite sure the rest of town would not want a lynch if it wasn't for the fact that there is so very little to go on.
Even more so that saying "Guys lets not lynch the guy who has been inactive these past few days because we might get information!" could have been said for anyone else.
I would like to know as to why you feel that at this point in the game, with no information to go on,why town continue to refrain from lynching anyone at this point.
Adumbrodeus' argument was based ENTIRELY on assumption.
The only thing he did explain (rather well), was the reason why Mafia managed to hit 32 power roles.
I'm a double's genius.
You only have my word to go on. I've been trying to keep up with the game, at the very least. I should be completely free after Friday, but things have been really rough for me since I left for MLG Orlando...
The fact that I posted all at once is not entirely a coincidence, but I missed a strong accusation against myself and missed a (real) day's worth of time, which caused everyone to want to eliminate me for inactivity. I don't blame them, and it wasn't smart of me to make such a mistake, but that's why it came all at once; I had to fight off so many accusations when I realized they were there.
That being said, I think I've done a decent job lately. Still not the most active, but I'm here, at least. I have a lot to make up for, and I'm gonna help us find the scum we've let slip away so far.
I'm still suspicious of BarDulL, but apparently it's not enough for other people to want to back me up on that. However, I admit that there is right to be aggressive, as the town hasn't accomplished much so far.
I am pretty sure I said this clear as day. Lynching someone immediently at the start of a day means a completely free day for scum. Its like they are being given two night kills; there were [no] people arguing against reflexs lynch. I am not exactly arguing against it either, I just do not wish for it to happen immediently.I would like to know as to why you feel that at this point in the game, with no information to go on,why town continue to refrain from lynching anyone at this point.
I'm a double's genius.
If the people who are arguing there are a lot of power roles, then I question why they are so sure of this, and generally ask why then is there such a lack of information.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
So to clarify, are you saying we should wait until last minute to perform a lynch?
yes? No?
Maybe so?
I would guess they are going off the FF6 game scene.
*shrugs*
@Reflex: I got my eye on you. Its just too much of a coincedence.
I'm a double's genius
BarDulL
Town Vampire
So what, you still have a problem with my logic? I suppose it is entirely possible that I pulled that explanation right out of my ***, but as long as there are no fallacies or tangible problems with it, then I'd like it if you kept this tunneling (and your "gut") to yourself.
Voting based on "gut" doesn't give Town any information as to why you voted, henceforth why it is considered anti-town to do so. In the event that you miss Scum, Town has nothing tangible to work with as to why you voted the way you did other than your claim that "you had a hunch." Needless to say, it creates a huge mess for Town because no information can be gathered from your end. All Town knows after the fact is that you are still either Scum or Town, which, oddly enough, sounds just like the same scenario in the previous Day.
Not only that, but you are essentially "taking a lucky shot," and although it is entirely possible that you "get lucky," there is a (12-x/12, for x = number of scum) chance that you hit Town. It is very high risk to vote on "gut," and doesn't do Town any favors if you turn out to be wrong.
On another note, I do think some scrutiny of Marc's assertion is of merit.
IIRC, Marc is an experienced Mafia player, so I am relatively surprised to see him making the assertion that what I did was anti-town based on a slippery slope (I think I am using the expression correctly). Marc said that what I did was anti-town based on meta from other games, but obviously other games does not equal this game of Mafia. It is still quite possible that OS did not follow typical Mafia protocol as Marc knows it, ergo, Marc's reasoning is flawed in this respect. While I would normally give him the benefit of the doubt, he is still experienced, so it certainly makes me suspicious of him.
I saw some other interesting points, but I need to go to bed. School johns.
Any experienced player will tell you it's stupid to claim your role unprovoked and a great help for Mafia. You simply increase their odds of them hitting better roles than your own, unless you expect pretty much everyone else but you to be a Vanilla. That's a much weirder assumption than my assumption that not all of our power roles are dead yet. My assumption is based on years of experience, what is your assumption based on?
I'll be away for a smash tournament for two days.
I'll be away for a smash tournament for two days.
BarDulL
Town Vampire
What? I have not claimed any role (ex: town sasquatch); I have so far claimed Mason with an unnamed individual, and I did it because it was supporting evidence for my original interpretation of the Swordgard message.
Can you elaborate a little on your post?
Are you trying to defend your overall quietness in this thread by saying that most of the people who do post are just talking about trivial things? You do realize that, even by bringing up trivial things, people's responses and how they discuss them can be an indicator/lead into to scum hunting? You are basically saying that you weren't busy IRL, and that you always follow the thread, just that you don't post because the issues at hand weren't direct scum hunting. This doesn't explain why you didn't jump in, tell us to quit it, and help lead a scum hunt. If you had a problem with what we were doing you should have posted and told us it was a waste of time, not after the matter.
How do I never allow myself to be in the spotlight? I've shown no restriction on accusing anybody, and I've thrown myself out there defending people who were getting lots of hate (Chibo, Swordgard on his ToDay thing) Go back and read the thread - I have had an opinion about every major issue that has come up in the thread. I have posted a lot too, but I agree that number of posts is not necessarily productive activity. Please, feel free to ask me anything, and point out any specifics on suspicious behavior I've had, or point out any specific circumstances where I've tried to avoid a spotlight because I don't see it. I'd love to hear that, because I really do feel like I've been really active. I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that I've been quiet.
I share this concern with .joel. He has had spurts of activity though, earlier on in the game.
I was pushing for a lynch to occur before the deadline hits, not necessarily for the lynch to occur as soon as possible. I'm just trying to proceed with caution so we don't go another day with lynch. I was frustrated with how the last day ended, and I just really want some kind of educated or decent lynch done before the deadline, so I was pushing people to start a bandwagon a bit earlier than usual - since the last 2 times we waited last minute, and either we didn't get enough votes or someone got mod killed. I was doing as you say - trying to get more information out as early as possible so when the deadline hits we have somebody to lynch. Do you not agree this is the best strategy? I agree that lynching before the deadline is wasteful, but I think lynching before the deadline is far preferable to no lynch at all, which is why I was willing to have a lynch before the deadline. (ie, on Friday) And it's not like I was lynching just anyone - Reflex had like, zero activity through the whole thread, so I felt like we were getting rid of dead weight. He's been more active suddenly though, so at this point I do feel it's best to wait a bit more near the deadline at the end of the weekend.
How about we pm Overswarm during the night time to prod him to avoid that happening? I'd like to avoid this too =/
So we don't go another day without lynch*
Also, Shaya. You said Reflex was busy with MLG and assignments? I've done a little research using the amazing search system.
Reflex has about 80 posts on SWF since MLG Orlando ended. I start the Monday after it ended.
Out of those roughly 80 posts, until he was 2 votes from being lynched, 2 of them were in this thread. One of them was a post surprised people want to vote for him, and the other was a one liner.
So, I've basically proven that he had plenty of time to post after MLG Orlando. He was also notoriously inactive before MLG inactive even started. You are defending him despite the fact that he was "busy" being plain untrue. Suspicious to me.
It's entirely possible Reflex was just lazy , and now is posting because he realize he might actually be lynched - it doesn't mean he's mafia. Town members don't wanna die either. I just take issue with people defending players saying they are busy, when they have been posting all over Smash World Forums. It convolutes the difference between actual busy players, and players who monitor the thread but don't post - ie, the latter group is much more likely to be scum.
Reflex has about 80 posts on SWF since MLG Orlando ended. I start the Monday after it ended.
Out of those roughly 80 posts, until he was 2 votes from being lynched, 2 of them were in this thread. One of them was a post surprised people want to vote for him, and the other was a one liner.
So, I've basically proven that he had plenty of time to post after MLG Orlando. He was also notoriously inactive before MLG inactive even started. You are defending him despite the fact that he was "busy" being plain untrue. Suspicious to me.
It's entirely possible Reflex was just lazy , and now is posting because he realize he might actually be lynched - it doesn't mean he's mafia. Town members don't wanna die either. I just take issue with people defending players saying they are busy, when they have been posting all over Smash World Forums. It convolutes the difference between actual busy players, and players who monitor the thread but don't post - ie, the latter group is much more likely to be scum.
Also, I'd like to get more from .joel, regarding what Shaya said about him being out of the spotlight for quite awhile. Care to chime in? For now I'll lay off reflex since he's being detailed, giving information, and trying to pry information from other players.
Unvote
Vote: .joel
Unvote
Vote: .joel
Posting in a Mafia game is different from posting oneliners in social threads etc though, because you have to carefully read a lot and make a good contribution.
What you are saying is that having two Town Masonries is odd (I agree) and from your point of view Chibo is Mafia or not cleared at the very least. Correct? Even so, outright claiming wasn't the best way to go about it, nor was voting me for expressing my opinion on it.
Town Mason is a role. You claimed it. I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on, but so far this game's setup seems fairly typical, which leads me to assume we don't want to help Mafia out in picking a target because we might have more tricks up our sleeve. I do not know what we have left, nor do I want to, but I do know that anyone claiming unless they're dangerously close to a lynch is bad for Town.
What you are saying is that having two Town Masonries is odd (I agree) and from your point of view Chibo is Mafia or not cleared at the very least. Correct? Even so, outright claiming wasn't the best way to go about it, nor was voting me for expressing my opinion on it.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Ok, I might as well elaborate on my situation since I was very willing to make myself a target for the mafia before, and I'm being a bit more hesistant to consider myself killed now. I'll also explain my connection with scamp.
A couple of reasons why I'm not expecting it as much.
1. They seem to have a role cop, and townies that put themselves out are less of a priority it seems.
2. I seem to have lost a reasonable amount of credibility so they're not as concerned with me.
Beyond that, there are a few reasons that I'm not as willing to die to make sure certain people get killed.
1. I'm actually not as convinced that the remaining 2 are mafia members anymore, I admit there were holes in my logic and most of it came down to the difference in tells between IRL play and online play, and the inactivity concerns at the very least is a game-changer. I'm still suspicious of them, but not convinced.
2. Here's the real kicker, I had a trump card. Earlier in the game I used two abilities, one of which was a one time use alignment check, the other of which had the implications beyond everything else that the flavor name of the character I used it on was revealed as soon as I died. That would mean that once I died there was another confirmed townie, making things easier for the next day of voting (the reason I said "cyan is town"). By making it occur after my death, I wouldn't have to be so concerned with them killing him that night, so better overall odds.
So yeah, the situation is different now, I'm not so interesting in sacrificing myself anymore.
A couple of reasons why I'm not expecting it as much.
1. They seem to have a role cop, and townies that put themselves out are less of a priority it seems.
2. I seem to have lost a reasonable amount of credibility so they're not as concerned with me.
Beyond that, there are a few reasons that I'm not as willing to die to make sure certain people get killed.
1. I'm actually not as convinced that the remaining 2 are mafia members anymore, I admit there were holes in my logic and most of it came down to the difference in tells between IRL play and online play, and the inactivity concerns at the very least is a game-changer. I'm still suspicious of them, but not convinced.
2. Here's the real kicker, I had a trump card. Earlier in the game I used two abilities, one of which was a one time use alignment check, the other of which had the implications beyond everything else that the flavor name of the character I used it on was revealed as soon as I died. That would mean that once I died there was another confirmed townie, making things easier for the next day of voting (the reason I said "cyan is town"). By making it occur after my death, I wouldn't have to be so concerned with them killing him that night, so better overall odds.
So yeah, the situation is different now, I'm not so interesting in sacrificing myself anymore.
Since you decided a full claim was a good idea (>_>), what was the result of the alignment check?