Battle Frontier - PokeCenter Power Rankings

[Fuelbi]

Why would Ditto be banned though? It has a crappy HP stat doesn't it? That means that unless you're stupid enough to not see that your opponent actually let you +6 whatever stat just to switch in with Ditto or that it'll likely revenge your pokemon and the only reason why it actually swept your team is because your team has a weakness to it, Ditto shouldn't be banned

Correct me if I'm wrong though

EDIT: Eh, just add Skymin and I'll be happy with that list

 

[Gates]

Why don't we just do a composite of all the banlists so far? Except Art's because his is just stupid.

I'll work on typing it up and have it done soon.

 

[UltiMario]

So the current liked list is:

Arceus
Zekrom
Reshiram
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Giratina-O
Mewtwo
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Lugia
Ho-oh
Darkrai
Shaymin-S

If we can be mature, I'd still like to throw up at the very least, Manaphy to be added to that list, and/or Deo-A. If anyone has any objections and would like to explain why, please go ahead.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I have no objects to Manaphy or any Deoxys being added to said list.

 

[Gates]

So the current liked list is:



If we can be mature, I'd still like to throw up at the very least, Manaphy to be added to that list, and/or Deo-A. If anyone has any objections and would like to explain why, please go ahead.

I agree to both of them being put on there, as well as Neutral Deoxys (since it's basically the same as Deoxys-A).

Also, you forgot Mew on that list. What does everybody think of him?

Why don't we just do a composite of all the banlists so far? Except Art's because his is just stupid.

I'll work on typing it up and have it done soon.

Well, here it is! This list is a composite of the banlists of UltiMario, Kirbyraeg, Terywj, and myself, as well as some posts by those users for the sake of tiebreaking. The list is divided into 4 sections - Unanimous Ban (All lists had this pokemon banned), Majority Ban (A majority of these lists had this pokemon banned), Undecided (Half had this pokemon banned, half did not), and Majority Unban (A majority of lists had this pokemon legal).

Unanimous Ban
Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom

Majority Ban
Latias
Latios
Mew

Undecided
Deoxys-D
Ditto
Garchomp
Kyurem
Salamence
Wobbuffet

Majority Unban
Genosect
Shandera
Wynaut

 

[ss118]

Manaphy isn't broken without Drizzle. If you want to ban it in DW, go right ahead, but that shouldn't affect wifi until DW Politoed becomes available.

Deoxys-A was only said to be uber on PO because no one cared to adapt to it because everyone just assumed it uber. I feel Skymin is in a similar category, but whatever. I'll give up on Skymin if we can please just keep Deoxys-A until it is without a doubt uber. Pweeeeeeze!?! ='3

 

[UltiMario]

You know, Latios is iffy, but Latias is definitely not worthy of banning at this point.

I'd prefer us to test out with them a little more before deciding a ban or not.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I will admit the following Pokemon as "banned" or Ubers material, as everyone agreed on their status.

Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom

Let's get going with some of the remaining Pokemon.

 

[Gates]

You know, Latios is iffy, but Latias is definitely not worthy of banning at this point.

I'd prefer us to test out with them a little more before deciding a ban or not.

Well I guess if there's really no way to get Soul Dew in Gen V we can make them legal, but otherwise I'd rather just outright ban them instead of having Soul Dew Clause.

 

[M.K]

Remember when Art used to be a good player who knew a lot about the game and his opinions made a ton of sense?

Stop. You know better than this.
I've been getting more complaints since the warning. I'm being serious, turn down the disrespect. These comments are immature. Nobody is laughing at your comments, and nobody particularly likes to be insulted. You do it to make a point, but your point falls flat.

Cut the disrespect or there will be no Power Rankings. Simple as that.

 

[Kofu]

Why don't we just hold off on Power Rankings until some decent playing guidelines are established?

It'll be hard to really count these ratings later on, anyway, when things are different.

 

[ss118]

"Manaphy shouldn't be banned in the wifi tier, since what really breaks it is the ability to boost your offense(and potentially defense) with your 100 all around bulk with infinite RainRest. Since this feature isn't available due to the lack of Drizzle Politoed in wifi, it is found to be much more easily handled thanks to the prevalent of Tyranitar and sand stream based teams, as well as being potentially able to be stalled out."

"Deoxys-A may very well likely be uber, but has not been proven so to this date. I don't think we should rely on PO's uber verdict because, even ignoring the lack of a good playerbase, he's been uber for so long that the automatic metality was to ignore him for team building measures. If he did show up, it only enforced the mentality of his 'uberness' in there minds as they found themselves unprepared. Not to mention that the overall voting system is flawed.

"On pokemon online, the voting process occurs on the forum, where they ignore the credibility of the voters. You have the players at the top, who either vote OU because they haven't had problems with it(or maybe even seen it) or vote uber because they found it easy to abuse the pokemon(because no one prepares for it). You have the other players who either suck(and vote uber because they probably hate it), or the mid players that do decently until they play against a pokemon they haven't played against."

"Under these pretenses, I personally find any uber verdicts found by the PO community to be null and void."

tl;dr PO players suck.

 

[Gates]

What is that from?

 

[ss118]

The art that had opinions that made sense. XP

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Stop. You know better than this.
I've been getting more complaints since the warning. I'm being serious, turn down the disrespect. These comments are immature. Nobody is laughing at your comments, and nobody particularly likes to be insulted. You do it to make a point, but your point falls flat.

Cut the disrespect or there will be no Power Rankings. Simple as that.

There's no need for removal of the entire Power Rankings. Just PM me the list of disrespectful members who are posting and they will promptly be kicked should the situation escalate to such a ridiculous level.

 

[Wrath`]

I love how any "Heated" discussion to Meat-Kirby = Kill the project....

Deoxys-D
Ditto
Garchomp
Kyurem
Salamence
Wobbuffet

As for this list, Salamnce/Garchomp Should not be banned, there are now more useful and more practical ways to beat these mons, same to me goes for The Red Lati.

Kyu is a toss up, I personal think he is OK, but he still does have 130/130 in his attacking arsenal despite being Ice typed. Ditto can be handled with scouting, "or if view your opponents team" becomes the norm.

I know little about Deoxys-D, He was banned in Gen 4, but if there are good and practical counters for him let him be in OU.

Wobbs should be banned for the same reasons as gen 4.

 

[Fuelbi]

As for this list, Salamnce/Garchomp Should not be banned, there are now more useful and more practical ways to beat these mons, same to me goes for The Red Lati.

Wait, I thought that Mence was broken because of Earthquake Spiral/Outrage or something like that and that's why people wanted to ban him

Ditto can be handled with scouting, "or if view your opponents team" becomes the norm.

Is this really why people think Ditto should be banned? Majority people I've ever played just switch Ditto in to revenge and either switch back out or keep it in depending on what pokemon comes in next. Seems like a pretty dumb reason to ban him imo

 

[Wrath`]

I thought Outrage+Overconfidence was illegal due to outrage only being available in 4th gen for Mence.

 

[Fuelbi]

Wait really? ****, I'm ******** then. I was under the impression that people were saying that he was broken BECAUSE of that combo, not him being illegal because Outrage is just in gen IV for him

Nevermind, that was a pretty stupid post then

 

[M.K]

I love how any "Heated" discussion to Meat-Kirby = Kill the project....

Yeah, when I'm getting complaints from people that don't even visit this board often, it says something.
It's a warning, abide by it and everything is fine.

And my name is Meta-Kirby. I'm not made of meat.

 

[UltiMario]

MK, you seem to not understand that this is Smashboards.

If you talk about banning anything heated discussion, and eventually insults will be thrown around. Ever actually read the Meta Knight discussion? Yeah, anything we've said in here are compliments compared to that **** lol.

Also I propose we have two tier lists.

DW tier list.
Wifi Tier list.

In the end, everyone is happy.

 

[Firus]

I love how any "Heated" discussion to Meat-Kirby = Kill the project....

It's not just "any heated discussion", and he's not "killing the project". People are having serious problems, for some reason, discussing this in a level-headed manner. Generally the best solution when such a situation happens is to close the thread temporarily and give people a chance to put things in perspective. It was done with TCPS a long way back, it's been done in other places, and if things don't calm down here it may be necessary here as well.

We've given you multiple warnings now. If things still don't clean up, we're not going to feel bad closing the thread.

Remember that this is Pokémon, it's not life-or-death, there's no need for ad hominems because you disagree with someone else.

MK, you seem to not understand that this is Smashboards.

If you talk about banning anything heated discussion, and eventually insults will be thrown around. Ever actually read the Meta Knight discussion? Yeah, anything we've said in here are compliments compared to that **** lol.

Yes, and MK ban discussions are so volatile that they themselves are banned.

Just because something happens in other places and more severely, that doesn't mean it's okay and should be ignored.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Alright, I guess. I really am not for kicking people out of the Power Rankings but if these shenanigans continue then I will have to do so. We are completely capable of having debates / discussions on a set tier list or ban list, so please demonstrate that. Long story short, and to save time and breath please stick with the current list in the OP. Tiers will be settled upon when they arise.

If you have objections to the set list you are free to message me through Skype, VM, or PM.

 

[Gates]

Nothing good can come of this.

So why can't the people in the challenge agree to the challenge on their own terms? If two players can agree on a banlist, why don't we just let them play out the match that way? Because until something definitive comes from Nintendo or Smogon, that's pretty much how challenges are going to happen anyway.

 

[kirbyraeg]

The only reason we couldn't allow that is because it defeats the purpose of a generalized power ranking instead of a more general "challenge thread"...which we should probably just turn this into at this point, since there's too much controversy around it. Power rankings are about the ranking part of it, and that requires a standardized ruleset for all challenges.

 

[Wave⁂]

I agree with kirbyraeg, though for different reasons. In Gen IV, a Little Cup player is not exactly the same as a UU player. A might beat B at LC, but B might beat A at Ubers. That just makes everything messy.

 

[UltiMario]

Hey so I challenge Kirbyraeg to Dream World.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Public Service Announcement "All matches until rather definitive tiers from Smogon are defined will take place in either Dream World, or non-Dream World. This change will not affect the past matches of the Power Rankings. Once official tiers are released, there will be separate Power Rankings per tier, and no questions asked about said tier and their banlists, etc."

Thank you.

Edit - Mood4Food, this is our last day for our match. I left you a VM two days ago. Please respond.

 

[ss118]

To be fair, smogon does have an established set of rules.

 

[UltiMario]

AN ESTABLISHED SET OF RULES AFTER SUSPECT TESTS ARE COMPLETE.

Better?

 

[ss118]

I don't see why we don't follow smogon's ruleset for arguments sake. But whatever. =/

 

[kirbyraeg]

Hey so I challenge Kirbyraeg to Dream World.

oh ffffffffff

I have a bunch of homework to do, so let me know when is good for you that isn't today.

 

[Deathfox30]

I'll sign up for this if it's not too late. I'm EST. Are you using Pokemon Online or Shoddy? As far as I know only Gary Oak has the B&W abilities, moves, and Pokemon fully implemented.

 

[UltiMario]

oh ffffffffff

I have a bunch of homework to do, so let me know when is good for you that isn't today.

Hey so my schedule is more flexible.

Name your time.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Deathfox30 has been signed up.

Mood4Food you have approximately an hour before I go watch the Patriots game, so I'll leave you another VM.

 

[Deathfox30]

Tery, battle? Any Shoddy server of your choosing non-dreamworld. :3

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tery, battle? Any Shoddy server of your choosing non-dreamworld. :3

I am currently in a challenge against Mood4Food. You cannot challenge someone who is already in a challenge.

Edit - I also lack Shoddy Battle. lol Shoddy.

 

[Deathfox30]

I am currently in a challenge against Mood4Food. You cannot challenge someone who is already in a challenge.

Edit - I also lack Shoddy Battle. lol Shoddy.

Oops, I missed that. I take it the majority of people here use PO? .-.

 

[CT Chia]

To be fair, smogon does have an established set of rules.

I don't see why we don't follow smogon's ruleset for arguments sake. But whatever. =/

Yea...
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81775
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82101

--

So I'm reading through this thread and I can't see what has actually been decided on here. What did we end up on with the rules?

 

[Gates]

So I'm reading through this thread and I can't see what has actually been decided on here. What did we end up on with the rules?

Unanimous Ban
Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom

These guys are Uber, at the very least.