Banning Bayonetta in Tournaments

[Thinkaman]

Bayonetta is the ultimate repudiation of children who insist that hitstun and combos make fighting games great.

 

[bc1910]

Bayo is not unbeatable but she's clearly one tier above the rest of the characters. She destroys most, if not all of the cast and is just unenjoyable to play against her and to watch the matches where there's one. Oh, but "adapt/get gud", you'll say. yeah, didn't we say that about customs as well and we ended up banning them because we enjoyed customs off meta more? I just happen to enjoy the game without Bayo more, might as well just quit if I have to play a match-up where I can't make more than 2 mistakes. It just stops being fun there and if the players don't enjoy the game then they have no reason to get good/adapt or to even play anymore. Bayonetta, while not unbeatable, will kill the game.

The bolded bit is blatantly not true after Pound. At least at top level, Bayo hasn't shown herself to be problematic and a variety of characters were shown to have winnable MUs against her including top tiers (Sheik) and high tiers (Toon Link). Whether she's fun to play against or watch is a matter of personal taste and, no matter how many players share that opinion, you can't reasonably ban her on those grounds.

Bayonetta is somewhere between pre-patch Sheik and pre-patch Luigi in terms of strength. She's capable of cheesy wins revolving around a few overpowered tactics, but she's nowhere close to showing the dominance that pre-patch Sheik achieved.

But hey, as someone else said, it's your scene. You should do whatever you think is best.

 

[Marcbri]

Banning ish for the sake of "fun" is super silly. What is fun for one person/group of people may not be the same way others feel; whose opinion matters more?

The game doesn't owe you anything, and players who used to win before are not guaranteed anything. What's stopping Rydle from also just having improved?

I really do not like this argument at all, it's based off of an emotional appeal that I can't support.

Spain is it's own region though so y'all should do what's best for your scene

Do you think your region will end up banning her? In the strictest sense of competition, that is finding out who is the best player, it doesn't make sense to ban any character, because if a player wants to be the best, they must play the best character. Obviously, though, that's not why most of us play, and seems to me to be an incomplete outlook on competition. Do you think that Spain will end up balancing its ruleset around players being able to have more fun?
Not trying to be a loaded question, having trouble phrasing the question in any other way though.

It's not about fun, it's about community growth. People are quitting tired of seeing Bayonetta winning all tournaments and some top players are considering the same as well. If you have played Brawl this will sound familiar. The character is broken and it puts its user in a considerable advantage no matter which character he's facing. With a risk/reward ratio as skewed as Bayo, it's not unexpected to find the game unfair. She can still be beaten but being plain better than the bayo player it's clearly not enough, she must be outplayed without comitting a single small mistake or your stock is gone.

 

[Greward]

Bayonetta is going to be banned in spain for being absurdly overpowered, not anything about fun or **** lol

Bayonetta is miles above any character that existed in a smash game. What is so bad about banning a character? The game is better for competitive reasons without her. Even the bayonetta players agree that she's broken.

The only reason that bayonetta isn't dominating majors is because only mediocre players are maining her and the god tier players refuse to play this character. They are hoping for a veeeeeery big nerf on bayonetta before the game dies out, which might or might not happen.

Spain banned blazblue's kokonoe on release, and we will do it again with bayonetta (probably).

Everything is allright when we ban 3 mii characters when they are finely balanced, but hey, banning the overpowered character? not fair bud

 

[C0rvus]

I don't see what the issue is. Just don't mess up. Bayonetta is doing this game a service, by pushing our play towards optimization.

 

[BunbUn129]

So, you don't understand Bayonetta at all.

Dtilt, up tilt, FAir1, up air, and NAir all setup things for her. Low % uthrow>wt1, BAir. High %, ftilt1 kind of? And then of course her specials.

You realize something about those options? They're not as effective as Witch Twist OoS and definitely not Witch Time. That was the whole point about my post: they're her two best combo starters, and the best way to land them--and the only way to land Witch Time--is by punishing a unsafe moves. Bayo fundamentally works the same as other punishment characters--she has a much harder time winning when you force her to commit to her approaches. This is why she's more "bark than bite" at top level play, because those players know how to exploit safe pokes.

The complaints about Bayo are mainly (don't count ZeRo's opinions, please, they're not to be taken so easily) from low- and mid-level players, and you know what they complain a lot about when it comes to Bayo? Witch Time. Why? Because 1) it is a really good move and 2) these are players who commit to unsafe, reckless options in neutral, and are basically asking to get Witch Timed.

She's a great character, but people seriously need to develop their counter-play.

 

[NotLiquid]

Bayonetta is going to be banned in spain for being absurdly overpowered, not anything about fun or **** lol

Bayonetta is miles above any character that existed in a smash game. What is so bad about banning a character? The game is better for competitive reasons without her. Even the bayonetta players agree that she's broken.

The only reason that bayonetta isn't dominating majors is because only mediocre players are maining her and the god tier players refuse to play this character. They are hoping for a veeeeeery big nerf on bayonetta before the game dies out, which might or might not happen.

Spain banned blazblue's kokonoe on release, and we will do it again with bayonetta (probably).

Everything is allright when we ban 3 mii characters when they are finely balanced, but hey, banning the overpowered character? not fair bud

Miis are banned (and only selectively so) because of logistics.

Bayonetta is being proposed for a ban because of politics.

 

[Charoite]

It's not about fun, it's about community growth. People are quitting tired of seeing Bayonetta winning all tournaments and some top players are considering the same as well. If you have played Brawl this will sound familiar. The character is broken and it puts its user in a considerable advantage no matter which character he's facing. With a risk/reward ratio as skewed as Bayo, it's not unexpected to find the game unfair. She can still be beaten but being plain better than the bayo player it's clearly not enough, she must be outplayed without comitting a single small mistake or your stock is gone.

Brawl problems weren't only metaknight, not only that but the moment you put money on the table,you cant say is for fun, if that the case we should ban, they're bad for twitch viewers(community growth is incorrect, is called money).

 

[Megamang]

And her combos would be really fun, if they were more interactive. If it was a midair battle where she held the cards, but you had an option to escape every few hits, like a vortex fighter, it'd be fun. But its just hoping she messes up while we mash inneffective SDI... speaking of which, we at least need to confirm the best way to escape the death combos. My rule of thumb has been to mash upwards if I'm a floaty, and down if im heavy, but I never know if I'm getting too far to hit/far enough between hits to dodge, or they are just dropping the combo.

Witch Time is way less stupid now. Don't worry, they'll nerf Bayo and she'll still be strong, but we'll wonder how she didn't dominate before when she had her busted tools (like how we look back on diddy/Shiek... can you believe shiek used to have a 50/50/100 kill confirm, AND a killing bair that was tied for fastest?!). I have no worries, the development team has killed a lot of 'toxic' stuff so I can't see them not touching bayonetta.

And that is the route we'll take, since we learned this cycle that not even top level players are above complaining online when they have to actually fight Bayo.

In their defense, it is boring to watch pure witch twist abuse rather than even trying to be a character.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

there is little risk in going for it.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/vgbootcamp2-2016040324223426

 

[HeavyLobster]

I don't think it's clear at all that Bayonetta is the best character in the game. From what I've seen, it looks like 20XX tier Sheik/Diddy beat her with their superior frame data, but have tiny margins for error, so for actual human beings those MUs are even. Sheik might even still be the best character, as she still has a wide variety of kill confirms and crazy options in neutral, as well as a virtually ungimpable recovery. It takes massive work to actually be able to play this character now, which makes her a much healthier character, but her core strengths are still present. You can't lose if you can't be hit, and Sheik is still the hardest character in the game to hit.

 

[Greward]

Miis are banned (and only selectively so) because of logistics.

Bayonetta is being proposed for a ban because of politics.

Not really, miis get the ban because people don't like them. Setting up a mii is roughly 20 seconds time. Logistics is merely the excuse.


People in here are still arguing about witch time? It's merely one more of the seven different options she has to set up a true death combo since 0%. The real problems are upB and to a lesser extent, side B.

 

[ARISTOS]

It's not about fun, it's about community growth. People are quitting tired of seeing Bayonetta winning all tournaments and some top players are considering the same as well. If you have played Brawl this will sound familiar. The character is broken and it puts its user in a considerable advantage no matter which character he's facing. With a risk/reward ratio as skewed as Bayo, it's not unexpected to find the game unfair. She can still be beaten but being plain better than the bayo player it's clearly not enough, she must be outplayed without comitting a single small mistake or your stock is gone.

Oh, but "adapt/get gud", you'll say. yeah, didn't we say that about customs as well and we ended up banning them because we enjoyed customs off meta more? I just happen to enjoy the game without Bayo more, might as well just quit if I have to play a match-up where I can't make more than 2 mistakes. It just stops being fun

This is where I got it from, though you are speaking from your own experience.

However, your response is different from below:

Bayonetta is going to be banned in spain for being absurdly overpowered, not anything about fun or **** lol

Bayonetta is miles above any character that existed in a smash game. What is so bad about banning a character? The game is better for competitive reasons without her. Even the bayonetta players agree that she's broken.

The only reason that bayonetta isn't dominating majors is because only mediocre players are maining her and the god tier players refuse to play this character. They are hoping for a veeeeeery big nerf on bayonetta before the game dies out, which might or might not happen.

Spain banned blazblue's kokonoe on release, and we will do it again with bayonetta (probably).

Everything is allright when we ban 3 mii characters when they are finely balanced, but hey, banning the overpowered character? not fair bud

First off-Mii's shouldn't be banned at all, but that's beyond this thread.

Nothing's wrong if you ban a character, but it better be with good reason. I'm not seeing the evidence that Bayo is dominating majors yet, we just saw one and Bayo did about as strongly as just about any regular top tier. I'm not buying it.

I don't think Bayo is healthy in her current state but character bans at this time seems super silly.

 

[BunbUn129]

With regards to Bayo controversy, some people who bring Brawl into the argument don't understand why the game was so poorly balanced. were only part of the issue. Brawl had chain-grabbing, grab release shenanigans, and edge-hogging, the former of which severely hindered heavies and fast-fallers ( would have been undeniably top tier if it weren't for chain-grabbing); grab release infinites killed , especially against ; and edge-hogging hurt anyone who didn't have a good recovery (), while helping characters like .


Two characters in Brawl warranted a ban because 1) they were broken 2) they benefited off of abusive mechanics in the game's engine ( would've been **** if chain-grabbing never existed).

Bayonetta exists in a game with far less abusive mechanics, and so using Brawl to justify her ban simply doesn't work.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Miis are banned (and only selectively so) because of logistics.

Bayonetta is being proposed for a ban because of politics.

Miis are banned due to ignorance, top player circle jerking and out right ****ing laziness.

This community continues to show me how ****ing young it is and how ridiculous it is.

 

[Marcbri]

This is where I got it from, though you are speaking from your own experience.

However, your response is different from below:



First off-Mii's shouldn't be banned at all, but that's beyond this thread.

Nothing's wrong if you ban a character, but it better be with good reason. I'm not seeing the evidence that Bayo is dominating majors yet, we just saw one and Bayo did about as strongly as just about any regular top tier. I'm not buying it.

I don't think Bayo is healthy in her current state but character bans at this time seems super silly.

Didn't express myself correctly tbh, but ye, people want her banned because she's broken/unfair which makes them not interested into the game aka scene not growing.

With regards to Bayo controversy, some people who bring Brawl into the argument don't understand why the game was so poorly balanced. were only part of the issue. Brawl had chain-grabbing, grab release shenanigans, and edge-hogging, the former of which severely hindered heavies and fast-fallers ( would have been undeniably top tier if it weren't for chain-grabbing); grab release infinites killed against ; and edge-hogging hurt anyone who didn't have a good recovery, while helping characters like .


Two characters in Brawl warranted a ban because 1) they were broken 2) they benefited off of abusive mechanics in the game's engine ( would've been **** if chain-grabbing never existed).

Bayonetta exists in a game with far less abusive mechanics, and so using Brawl to justify her ban simply doesn't work.

Funny to have someone who registered in 2015 talking about Brawl lol. I was antiban for the majority of Brawl lifespan, Bayo is better than ICs or MK anyways. People will say it's too early until it's too late, but you just need to take a look at the character to see that it's completely busted, do you think new DI will appear overtime that will help escape her 0 to death combos? I don't think so.

 

[NotLiquid]

Miis are banned due to ignorance, top player circle jerking and out right ****ing laziness.

This community continues to show me how ****ing young it is and how ridiculous it is.

I don't disagree to be honest. I don't even think they should be banned in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

With regards to Bayo controversy, some people who bring Brawl into the argument don't understand why the game was so poorly balanced. were only part of the issue. Brawl had chain-grabbing, grab release shenanigans, and edge-hogging, the former of which severely hindered heavies and fast-fallers ( would have been undeniably top tier if it weren't for chain-grabbing); grab release infinites killed against ; and edge-hogging hurt anyone who didn't have a good recovery, while helping characters like .


Two characters in Brawl warranted a ban because 1) they were broken 2) they benefited off of abusive mechanics in the game's engine ( would've been **** if chain-grabbing never existed).

Bayonetta exists in a game with far less abusive mechanics, and so using Brawl to justify her ban simply doesn't work.

and also got **** on by and for the same reason.(apparently) had problems vs. because of grab release jank.

Brawl's addition of hitstun canceling also harmed a good amount of characters since they couldn't fluently combo in the engine. would be stupid good if he were to be in Smash 4. Frame 3 dsmash, a nair that killed around 100%, a far better recovery etc. Other characters who notably suffered were ,, and .

 

[Y2Kay]

Miis are banned due to ignorance, top player circle jerking and out right ****ing laziness.

This community continues to show me how ****ing young it is and how ridiculous it is.

I remember Zero saying that Mini brawler and helicopter kick was ridiculous.

I believe this was also when he was using pre patch diddy too.

 

[BunbUn129]

Didn't express myself correctly tbh, but ye, people want her banned because she's broken/unfair which makes them not interested into the game aka scene not growing.



Funny to have someone who registered in 2015 talking about Brawl lol. I was antiban for the majority of Brawl lifespan, Bayo is better than ICs or MK anyways. People will say it's too early until it's too late, but you just need to take a look at the character to see that it's completely busted, do you think new DI will appear overtime that will help escape her 0 to death combos? I don't think so.

I disagree with Bayo being better than Brawl MK. Brawl MK was overtuned in every aspect of gameplay, and the game's physics benefited him because his floatiness made him difficult for most characters to chain-grab, and edge-hogging boosted his already deadly edge game. Bayonetta doesn't have auto-win buttons in neutral, I'd say she's closer to IC's in that she can be lamed out but gets a lot off one hit. However, IC's chain-grabs were a lot more consistent when mastered than Bayo's combos, so I think IC's are better as well.

And just because I registered in 2015 doesn't mean I'm new. I've kept up with scene since 2012.

 

[BunbUn129]

And Bayonetta doesn't even 0-death people with much consistency anyway. So the comparison to Brawl IC's falls flat due to their being less interaction possible with the chain-grabbed player.

I honestly feel the people who say Bayo is better than Brawl MK and IC's never played Brawl. No offense and nothing personal, but that's what I'm getting.

 

[Greward]

I disagree with Bayo being better than Brawl MK. Brawl MK was overtuned in every aspect of gameplay, and the game's physics benefited him because his floatiness made him difficult for most characters to chain-grab, and edge-hogging boosted his already deadly edge game. Bayonetta doesn't have auto-win buttons in neutral, I'd say she's closer to IC's in that she can be lamed out but gets a lot off one hit. However, IC's chain-grabs were a lot more consistent when mastered than Bayo's combos, so I think IC's are better as well.

And just because I registered in 2015 doesn't mean I'm new. I've kept up with scene since 2012.

Brawl was at its last hours at 2012 anyways.

MK is not floaty, he's a fast faller lol with one of the worst air speeds, and he was combo-food and even chaingrabbed by some characters by release or down throw.

Edge hogging was good for MK because he didn't care about it, since he could always recover high with very little risk.

MK didn't have auto win buttons in neutral either (super duper strong though), the closest would be tornado which is similar to bayo upB as how it works, except bayo upB starts a combo, is an out of shield and is frame 4 (and can't move around while at it), also less punishable. Most characters did have some buttons that outprioritized nado though, still they usually were bad or slow moves. Dair camp was super strong. MK was basically a supercharacter with massive everything and a I can fly all i want mechanic.

Lol IC chaingrabs are as consistent as bayo combos, except IC did need to have nana near (she could be dead or desynched) and had to get a grab where bayonetta has a lot of moves that start the 0 death. Besides IC were pretty weak at anything else that wasn't chaingrabbing. Bayonetta excels at everything. She has a notably better neutral, waaaaaaaay better disadvantage state and stronger in advantage since she doesn't need as many stuff as the duo to start a 0 death. Still most top players mashed out of chaingrabs at very low percents.
They definitely are more consistent than IC's 0 deaths two months in Brawl's life.


And before you say that I didn't play Brawl, I was a top brawl player in Europe, same for Marcbri, so yeah, we kinda did.

Tbh I don't really care which character is better between Brawl's or Bayonetta nor it is of any use for the discussion.

 

[hypersonicJD]

Bayonetta better than Brawl Meta Knight...

No. Brawl Meta Knigh was able to do like 4 up airs in a single short hop. Insanely good frame data, kill power and oppressive gameplay. If you were to fight Brawl Meta Knight, it was pretty much gg and sent to home.

Bayonetta has trouble sealing stocks when people are careful enough to not get caught in Witch Time or Witch Twist. People just love to start ******** when something new comes out and they don't know what to do. People really need to adapt and learn the MU. Yes, she has ridicously amazing kill corfims and 0 to deaths. But that only works when the player guesses the DI of the opponent good enough or people are trapped in witch time.

Also she struggles with good shielding and air dodging.

 

[HeavyLobster]

and also got **** on by and for the same reason.(apparently) had problems vs. because of grab release jank.

Brawl's addition of hitstun canceling also harmed a good amount of characters since they couldn't fluently combo in the engine. would be stupid good if he were to be in Smash 4. Frame 3 dsmash, a nair that killed around 100%, a far better recovery etc. Other characters who notably suffered were ,, and .

One of the best things about Smash 4's engine is that it's currently designed so as not to be abusive and excessively reward certain characters while punishing others excessively. Right now the only character who really suffers in the Smash 4 engine is Puff, while in Melee/Brawl the game played favorites with certain character archetypes to a much greater extent. Sure heavyweights still aren't great because of the existence of faster combo characters who outreward them while also being able to outmaneuver them, but at least now Bowser/DK do get enough reward relative to *most* of the rest of the cast to be fearsome and rage gives heavier characters something to make them more relevant. While Melee players criticize Smash 4's engine for a lack of exploits, the flip side of this is that it makes balancing different character archetypes easier as opposed to just having certain kinds of characters having all of the advantages and others having none.

 

[sedrf]

←過去 未来→ pic.twitter.com/FPEBmOEZ1V

— りん/Rin (@rintarosu10) April 3, 2016

topical
But seriously brawl mk was worse than cancer and should've been banned.
Brawl Ics were the definition of un interactive.

 

[BunbUn129]

Brawl was at its last hours at 2012 anyways.

MK is not floaty, he's a fast faller lol with one of the worst air speeds, and he was combo-food and even chaingrabbed by some characters by release or down throw.

Not to nitpick, but MK's fall speed was average for Brawl standards (1.39 at 19th out of 38). He wasn't combo food because he had a frame 3 nair and frame 4 down air, and hitstun was non-existent in Brawl. Chain-grabbing was only a major issue against IC's anyway.

And "auto-win" was an exaggeration on my part. Brawl MK's neutral options were leagues better than Bayo's, that was my point.

IC's chain-grabs were "consistent" in the manner that the only real way to escape was if the IC's player messed up; you have a much bigger chance escaping Bayo ladders.

The point is, I (and many others) find the arguments that use Brawl to justify banning Bayo pretty stupid.

When half of all competitive players use Bayo; when half of every top 8 is filled with Bayo; when every Grand Final at every major tournament is Bayo dittos--that's when we discuss a ban.

 

[Greward]

Not to nitpick, but MK's fall speed was average for Brawl standards (1.39 at 19th out of 38). He wasn't combo food because he had a frame 3 nair and frame 4 down air, and hitstun was non-existent in Brawl. Chain-grabbing was only a major issue against IC's anyway.

And "auto-win" was an exaggeration on my part. Brawl MK's neutral options were leagues better than Bayo's.

IC's chain-grabs were "consistent" in the manner that the only real way to escape was if the IC's player messed up; you have a much bigger chance escaping Bayo ladders.

Still that's far from being floaty. MK was one of the most combo food lightweights in Brawl, I don't remember the exact reasons but I remember the comboes. MK was affected by some weird chaingrabs like Pika and Yoshi's.

IC chaingrabs are as consistent as bayonetta's. There's no DI to make that will save you, you can try to change it so she messes up but since she can react to it once Bayonetta gets good she's not going to miss. I guess they are less consistent because a duck or a balloon can **** it up, but that's it.

 

[C0rvus]

She is awful to watch. I give up on watching tournament streams when there are bayo players and i am not the only one. We need to take veiwership into account, that is mainly what keeps a game alive.

Honestly, I get where this notion is coming from, but **** it. Game needs to be about the players first. Viewers will always find stuff to complain about. And Bayonetta is more fun for viewers than for players lol. Just my two cents.

 

[Charoite]

can invalidate an entire defensive option, punish you for using with 0-deaths,tell me how bayo is worse than that??? because it took skill?? lol.

 

[Charoite]

It is certainly too early to be banning Bayonetta, but Pound 2016 proved very little at this stage. OK, so she didn't make top 8. She's been out for like 2 months. Just wait until the dedicated players have had 6 to 9 to 12 months of polish with her. The apologists are doing much to help her case by saying things like "she is beatable". I don't see many people saying "she is bad" or that she struggles once the opponent employs certain strategies. Saying she is "beatable" means (as people have already pointed out) that she has severe imbalances that force incredibly unorthodox styles of play.

The rest of this year will be quite telling with regard to her actual potential. No, she's currently not a threat, but she's not off the hook either.

Then we should ban cloud who has better results than bayo in the same time frame.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Then we should ban cloud who has better results than bayo in the same time frame.

LOL! Cloud isn't sweeping results. Plus, Cloud will only drop as people learn how to edge guard him. M2K did a good write up on why Cloud is overrated right now.

 

[sedrf]

At the same time people dislike gg for how people hate being comboed repeatedly calling ituninteractive or kusoge or call it dash,n mash.
Sound familiar
people are dumb and can't stand to move from their comfort zones.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

To be clear, I am not in favor of a ban. Definitely not in the near future. I'm only pointing out that it's obvious to me why her design has resulted in a negative experience for so many people.

 

[Mario766]

Get back to me when something important bans Bayo.

Then I'll talk about Bayo being ban worthy.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

To be clear, I am not in favor of a ban. Definitely not in the near future. I'm only pointing out that it's obvious to me why her design has resulted in a negative experience for so many people.

Well, this is how she plays in her games, without a Witch Time or good spacing from the enemy, she gets rekt'd, since update patches exist unlike Melee or Brawl, how about instead of giving her the Sheik/Diddy treatment, you just increase the SDI multiplier on her main combo moves? That way 0-deathing becomes more difficult and escaping becomes easier.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Why ban walk-offs for promoting degenerative play when nothing in this entire genre of games is more degenerative than 0-death combos?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'd be surprised if we didn't see another nerf at some point. Nintendo jumped the gun and nerfed Little Mac before any proof of dominance. It was a patch driven by angry fans and hurt feelings. How can Nintendo be overlooking the ridiculous nature of Bayonetta's risk reward ratios?

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I'd be surprised if we didn't see another nerf at some point. Nintendo jumped the gun and nerfed Little Mac before any proof of dominance. It was a patch driven by angry fans and hurt feelings. How can Nintendo be overlooking the ridiculous nature of Bayonetta's risk reward ratios?

Who knows. Remember it took a while before Nintendo took action on Diddy and Sheik so perhaps it is the same in this case, oh and people saying she should be banned, is as ZeRo put it, ridiculous.

 

[TurboLink]

I'd be surprised if we didn't see another nerf at some point. Nintendo jumped the gun and nerfed Little Mac before any proof of dominance. It was a patch driven by angry fans and hurt feelings. How can Nintendo be overlooking the ridiculous nature of Bayonetta's risk reward ratios?

Mac was probably nerfed because of his performance on For Glory or online period.

Balancing takes into consideration data from online play, and suggestions from an in-house monitoring/playtesting team. It’s not that they ignore vocal feedback from the players, but it’s mostly online data and internal testing and adjustments

Source: http://sourcegaming.info/2016/03/31/dengeki2015/

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Mac was probably nerfed because of his performance on For Glory or online period.

Reading data is hard. I wish I could see the raw numbers. It's obvious Nintendo went too far.