Banning Bayonetta in Tournaments

[Y2Kay]

dang we all got transfered here lol

 

[Shaya]

Results for Tech Republic (128 entrants):

1- Rydle
2- Greward
3- Marcbri
4- Robo~Luigi
5- Sefi
5- El_Pitikla
7- Hikotsu
7- Nau

Soo, Bayo wins again with ease in Spain, this time in a national tournament and the community is NOT happy. While other Bayos got to top 16, Rydle just demolished everyone, even ending the first grand final game in 22 seconds. People hate watching and playing her to the point where more people are pushing for a ban and wishing for nerfs after every tournament. A recent poll that just started today has already 75% of votes for the ban.

For context, Rydle was ranked 6th at the end of 2015 and played Sheik, but he was clearly below the top 5, usually getting 3-0ed by them. Now that things are the other way around and more and more people are picking up Bayo the community is getting mad. The community has grown a lot since Brawl days and a lot of the old school players don't want to see it fall again so they want to ban her before half the entrants of a tournament play her.

You can watch the matches on the past broadcasts from twitch.tv/smashbrosspain or wait until they are uploaded to Youtube in our Youtube acc by the same name.

Just wondering about your opinions about this.

I'm leaving here my personal opinion as well:

Bayo is not unbeatable but she's clearly one tier above the rest of the characters. She destroys most, if not all of the cast and is just unenjoyable to play against her and to watch the matches where there's one. Oh, but "adapt/get gud", you'll say. yeah, didn't we say that about customs as well and we ended up banning them because we enjoyed customs off meta more? I just happen to enjoy the game without Bayo more, might as well just quit if I have to play a match-up where I can't make more than 2 mistakes. It just stops being fun there and if the players don't enjoy the game then they have no reason to get good/adapt or to even play anymore. Bayonetta, while not unbeatable, will kill the game.

I moved posts from the competitive thread to here.
Mostly those which were dedicated purely to the idea of her legality.

This is the original post which started the conversation though.
Of interest due to it indicating an entire region (75% of the scene!!!) are pro-ban on the character.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Seriously? Even though it's more than obvious she isn't as game breaking as Brawl!MK or IC?

 

[Shaya]

Well, to me, it's not "obvious" because this character is brand spanking new.
How 'quickly' it becomes "obvious" is going to be different within each 'area'.

Meta Knight and ICs are "obvious" after 8 years of the game. So obvious that they split the scene distinctively into two; although the game didn't survive long enough for ICs to really have the same process MK did. When MK was briefly banned (it happened in the biggest regions), the main reason for it's reversal at a glance was the complaint of Ice Climbers.

 

[blackghost]

Its amazing that apparently bayonetta is SO broken that mars effectively managed to shut her down in top 16 at pound. Learn. the. matchup. her zero to daths are real granted they are situational and. She struggles if you slow the pace of the game down and stop throwing out hitboxes. in high level play (not locals) she has been repeatidly exposed for having weaknesses. she is not brawl metaknight or IC not even close she doesnt have anything like those characte did in her overall design. That comparison is absurd and needs to stop.

 

[Shaya]

Brawl Meta Knight and Ice Climbers lost to people at top level too. Heck, ICs -never- won a major. Heck ICs barely got top 3 at any large tournament in the history of Brawl.
And that Spanish tournament was not a local.

 

[sedrf]

****ing diddy was broken as **** and didn't made up the majority of top 8.
Luigi to.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Its amazing that apparently bayonetta is SO broken that mars effectively managed to shut her down in top 16 at pound. Learn. the. matchup. her zero to daths are real granted they are situational and. She struggles if you slow the pace of the game down and stop throwing out hitboxes. in high level play (not locals) she has been repeatidly exposed for having weaknesses. she is not brawl metaknight or IC not even close she doesnt have anything like those characte did in her overall design. That comparison is absurd and needs to stop.

Abadango did the same to 9B, people need to start adapting, I know I am, even more so since I main characters whose recovery is REALLY gimpable by WT(Witch Time.)

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Its amazing that apparently bayonetta is SO broken that mars effectively managed to shut her down in top 16 at pound. Learn. the. matchup. her zero to daths are real granted they are situational and. She struggles if you slow the pace of the game down and stop throwing out hitboxes. in high level play (not locals) she has been repeatidly exposed for having weaknesses. she is not brawl metaknight or IC not even close she doesnt have anything like those characte did in her overall design. That comparison is absurd and needs to stop.

That's fine for now. I think most people are simply afraid of what she will become. Bayonetta is scary now; sure we'll learn how to fight her, but what if Bayonetta players discover even worse combos? What if they refine the process to where any mistake is guaranteed 0-to-death? What if Bidou makes her extra stupid?

 

[Ark of Silence101]

What if update 1.1.6 or any future update gives her Diddy/Sheik treatment?

 

[Streethawk57]

That's fine for now. I think most people are simply afraid of what she will become. Bayonetta is scary now; sure we'll learn how to fight her, but what if Bayonetta players discover even worse combos? What if they refine the process to where any mistake is guaranteed 0-to-death? What if Bidou makes her extra stupid?

Sensationalist nonsense stirring up needless drama.

There are no guaranteed zero-to-death combos. There are numerous factors that go into actually getting it that many overlook- Opponents DI/SDI, positioning from Bayonetta, fall speed, and execution. No zero-to-death combos even occured at Pound as a testament of how hard it actually is to get it. It's also one to their adaptation, something that many people on this thread are refusing to do.

Your comment on Bidou is also uninformed. Bidou is actually useless with Bayonetta due to her Bullet Arts- and besides, no one is going to change up their entire control scheme to better utilise a character- it would ruin their play.

 

[BunbUn129]

I personally don't think Bayo will kill the game, though she is pretty unfun to play against.

I read a comment that summed up Bayo perfectly; I can't give credit because I don't know where I read it, but it goes exactly like this:

"Bayonetta is literally Melee if you gave all the tech to one character."

The majority of characters were designed with an appeal to both casuals and competitive players. Bayonetta was designed primarily with competitive play in mind, and the fact that she is almost definitely the only character to receive this treatment is precisely where the problem lies.

Unless Bayonetta gets nerfed to the point that she is no longer viable or they completely rework her design, she will be the source of controversy. And that's the saddest part of all this.

 

[DanGR]

At this point, I'm okay with simply waiting for patches. Let's see what the dev team has in store for us.

However if Nintendo came out tomorrow and said "no more patches," the game changes dramatically. I'd drop all my characters, solo-main Bayonetta, make videos about her plentiful DI followups, and see if the rest of the community could replicate my findings (and success).

I'm 99% sure so few of the top players are playing her because she's on the chopping block.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Reading data is hard. I wish I could see the raw numbers. It's obvious Nintendo went too far.

Little Mac was barely touched, and his performance on For Glory is utter trash.
Lowest win rate even before nerfs.

Jab 2/3 does 1% less.
Nair SDI 2x
SideB got a slight nerf.

No more nerfs from there.
xP

I personally don't think Bayo will kill the game, though she is pretty unfun to play against.

Un126, I can't express enough how similar the argument is to banning Little Mac. Honestly, learning is never fun if you believe you can't learn.

 

[blackghost]

What if update 1.1.6 or any future update gives her Diddy/Sheik treatment?

going by that she'd still get results. shiek and diddy can survive that but her frame data that would gut her character. i garantee you the general community wants her to become unplayable. this hate is unlike any character in this game. people would groan at shiek. they openly mock bayo players.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Little Mac was barely touched, and his performance on For Glory is utter trash.
Lowest win rate even before nerfs.

Jab 2/3 does 1% less.
Nair SDI 2x
SideB got a slight nerf.

No more nerfs from there.
xP

Mainly his side B nerf is what hurt him the most. He went from having a respectable recovery to having a criminally short one. It was just sad.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Mainly his side B nerf is what hurt him the most. He went from having a respectable recovery to having a criminally short one. It was just sad.

It wasn't a respectable recovery in the first place. It still has 90% of the original.

 

[Ghidorah14]

the difference between bayo and these other characters is that bayo only needs to put her hands on the opponent once to get a kill.

The same could said for any character with a kill throw or throw combo that can kill.

The audience will feel cheated.

The audience feels just as cheated as the player and that is not healthy for the longevity of the game.

So you presume to speak for the entirety of smash's viewers, now?

 

[Das Koopa]

The same could said for any character with a kill throw or throw combo that can kill.

no other character in the game gets the rewards she consistently gets off of punishing mistakes

not arguing for a ban considering all she did this weekend was win a tourney in a low key region buuuut she really should get nerfed out of her ceiling KOs

 

[Streethawk57]

no other character in the game gets the rewards she consistently gets off of punishing mistakes

not arguing for a ban considering all she did this weekend was win a tourney in a low key region buuuut she really should get nerfed out of her ceiling KOs

Oh, by your logic, ZSS should get nerfed for her punish game as well (which is as good as Bayo's) , considering how she can basically kill you off a whiffed move with down-throw, up airs -> Boost Kick into a ceiling KO.

 

[BunbUn129]

It's funny to see the hate for Bayo get worse after the nerf: the nerfs to ZSS's and MK's ladders only added fuel to the fire. Instead of having 3 characters who killed early, you now have only 1 who kills early. So, despite being technically nerfed, the patch only gave more of an incentive to play her.

The MK and ZSS nerfs may or may not have been warranted, and I myself really don't like asking for nerfs, and again, I don't think she should be banned. But I will be honest: I will lose my **** if patch 1.1.6 drops and Bayo's ladders go untouched.

Edit S Streethawk57 they nerfed ZSS's ladder, and MK's, while Bayo's went untouched. ZSS's overall damage output is worse than Bayo's. ZSS's ladder only kills with bad DI and/or rage, just as it did pre-patch.

 

[Scribe]

So, I just had a bit of a realization.

While Old Sagat and 3S Chun are pretty good comparisons, there's another character she has a lot in common with.

She's our Algol.

In SoulCalibur 4, there was a character named Algol, who was meant to be an experiment in system transference, much like Bayonetta is in Smash 4. Whereas Bayo essentially has her home game's gameplay replicated in a 2D environment for a very anime fighter or MvC-esque vibe, Algol was meant to be a 2D fighter-style zoning character in a 3D fighter (a very good one design-wise, mind you. His design would be the perfect jumping off point for Tekken x Street Fighter), complete with a zoning projectile and a shoryuken. Algol also had an infinite. It was very risky to land, but it was an infinite, nonetheless, and his radically different playstyle earned him no favors, so there was a heavy push to ban him, which eventually went through after a community vote by a majority of the community's TOs. And then people discovered that Hilde's safest moves could convert into a launcher that could ring-out people from anywhere onstage. And because people jumped the gun on banning Algol, who was relatively tame, people were hesitant to ban Hilde. Eventually, this, along with several other factors such as the tendency towards tech-hoarding in the community, ended in a ton of people leaving the community for Street Fighter 4.

And now we have Bayonetta. An experiment in system transference with a very different neutral game from what many players are used to and the ability to carry out 0-death combos that, while basically guaranteed if you land them, can be very risky against a competent opponent, who the community is now pushing to ban despite the fact that there is no indication that she's actually powerful enough to be ban-worthy (i.e. 8-2 matchups or better across the board).

This has all happened before, and it will all happen again.

 

[BunbUn129]

So, I just had a bit of a realization.

While Old Sagat and 3S Chun are pretty good comparisons, there's another character she has a lot in common with.

She's our Algol.

In SoulCalibur 4, there was a character named Algol, who was meant to be an experiment in system transference, much like Bayonetta is in Smash 4. Whereas Bayo essentially has her home game's gameplay replicated in a 2D environment for a very anime fighter or MvC-esque vibe, Algol was meant to be a 2D fighter-style zoning character in a 3D fighter (a very good one design-wise, mind you. His design would be the perfect jumping off point for Tekken x Street Fighter), complete with a zoning projectile and a shoryuken. Algol also had an infinite. It was very risky to land, but it was an infinite, nonetheless, and his radically different playstyle earned him no favors, so there was a heavy push to ban him, which eventually went through after a community vote by a majority of the community's TOs. And then people discovered that Hilde's safest moves could convert into a launcher that could ring-out people from anywhere onstage. And because people jumped the gun on banning Algol, who was relatively tame, people were hesitant to ban Hilde. Eventually, this, along with several other factors such as the tendency towards tech-hoarding in the community, ended in a ton of people leaving the community for Street Fighter 4.

And now we have Bayonetta. An experiment in system transference with a very different neutral game from what many players are used to and the ability to carry out 0-death combos that, while basically guaranteed if you land them, can be very risky against a competent opponent, who the community is now pushing to ban despite the fact that there is no indication that she's actually powerful enough to be ban-worthy (i.e. 8-2 matchups or better across the board).

This has all happened before, and it will all happen again.

I like this comparison. A character like Bayonetta will only ever warrant a ban when half of the players main her, half of every top 8 is dominated by her, and every Grand Finals set is Bayonetta dittoes.

Meanwhile, the first super major since Bayonetta's release, Pound 2016, has been won by M2. Results really aren't in favor of any bans.

 

[chipndip]

Looks like I might have to drop some FGC wisdom on you guys. This is gonna be a long one, but it's an interesting lesson on FGC history, mentality in regards to bans, and why Bayonetta is as good as she is and might become more manageable as the meta develops (though she'll likely stay very good)

First of all, I'd like to make a little comparison to Street Fighter II, particularly in regards to Akuma and Old Sagat, and bring up the difference between Hard Bans and Soft Bans.

A Hard Ban is an actual tournament rule saying that something is not allowed. You are not allowed to use this option in tournaments, lest you get disqualified or have to have your results invalidated.

A Soft Ban is an informal agreement among players not to use an option. Doing so is not in violation of any tournament rules, but it will get you shamed, booed, insulted, and/or beaten up in a parking lot after your set.

In Street Fighter II Turbo, Akuma was hard banned. As one OG player put it, "10-0 matchups across the board may be hyperbole, but 9-1 isn't." Short of a miracle, if you were playing against an Akuma player who knew what they were doing, and you weren't using Akuma, you were guaranteed to lose. He was the first and one of the only real community-wide character bans in the FGC, because he had such a strong matchup spread, even for a game where 6-4 is considered an even matchup, that the only thing that could beat an Akuma player was a better Akuma player.

Old Sagat (Each character in Super Turbo had an "old" variation that lacked the new mechanics introduced in Turbo, but was more powerful to compensate. In theory, at least. Some were more powerful than the "New" version, and others were worse), on the other hand, was a different story. He was widely considered the best in the game after Akuma and dominated competitive play, but his matchups weren't as one-sided, and they weren't as consistently good across the board. He had some very strong matchups, but they were all manageable; they were nothing that a skilled enough player couldn't overcome. He was soft-banned in Japan, but the rest of the world saw no issue with him.

I'm bringing this up because people talk about Bayonetta as if she's some insurmountably powerful monster with borderline auto-win matchups across the board like Akuma was, but honestly, Bayonetta is, at best, in the same place in the Smash 4 meta that Old Sagat was in Super Turbo. Definitely a powerful character who can be hard to deal with, but it's nothing insurmountable. I will say that unlike Akuma and Old Sagat, her dominance isn't just a matter of sheer power, but how different she is. Her playstyle is very reminiscent of MvC or anime fighters. And unlike Ryu, where you don't have to play the neutral like you're playing Street Fighter to beat him, with Bayonetta, an understanding of traditional fighting game fundamentals is a huge part of dealing with her. Ground control, anti-airs, counterhits, whiff punishes, proper application of shielding/perfect shielding (in place of blocking/just frame bocking), and out of shield options (in place of reversals) are the name of the game. And the number one thing to remember is that escaping her combos isn't just a matter of DI and airdodging out. In traditional fighters, if you want to get out of a combo, you have to interrupt it and turn the tides against her as soon as you get an opening/they drop the combo, which is exactly what you want to do against Bayonetta. Even if that means mashing A in hopes of throwing out a neutral-air. She also doesn't have much in the way of dealing with characters with good grab game, so use that to your advantage if you can.

I'm just hypothesizing here, but I feel like having a firm grip on traditional fighting game fundamentals might help you out. If you have a friend who plays traditional fighters, preferably Guilty Gear Xrd or Street Fighter V, ask them to teach you how to play, or maybe pick it up yourself if you can afford to. You're going to get the best experience on PS4, but the PC versions are excellent as well. Even though I'd recommend a fightstick or a fightpad, a regular PS/Xbox gamepad or even a Classic Controller Pro with a USB adapter (if playing on PC) is serviceable. Even if you don't have any FGC buddies and can't afford to buy a copy for yourself, you can always play older games through FightCade and/or check out some videos on traditional fighting game fundamentals (like this one for Guilty Gear Xrd) and apply the concepts to Smash. Again, take this advice with a grain of salt, because it's entirely possible that I'm just talking out my *** about this.

And, honestly, going back to Akuma, the reasons for his ban are a good litmus test for if a character is ban-worthy or not. If they have 9-1 or even 8-2 matchups or better across the board, then they need to be banned. If a character, while powerful and hard to deal with, has a relatively tame matchup spread and is still manageable with most of the cast, then they shouldn't be banned outright, though I would definitely put a heavy emphasis on learning all of their tools and how to deal with them.

tl;dr version: She doesn't have 8-2 matchups or better across the board, so, no, she's not ban-worthy. You gotta play the neutral more like you would in a traditional fighter against her, so learn ground control, anti airs, how to use counterhits and whiff punishes to your advantage, and how to get the most out of your grab game. Learning how to play Street Fighter or Guilty Gear might also be helpful, since it teaches all of that stuff except for grab game.

It's fine if she's not banned for now.

However, the problem isn't just "how different she is". The problem is her risk/reward being extremely inflated due to how different she is. She's loaded with a ton of options that force too much on the opponent to have to check and account for while she still gets to play the game like anyone else would. Got hit? Well, here's a ton of damage or a straight stock off you.

Her reward for success cases is stupidly skewed. No amount of learning the match-up changes the consequences of a success case. That's a major part of the issue.

 

[Ghidorah14]

If you get better at the game, her chance for success will get smaller.

Does this not make sense to anyone else, or is it just me?

 

[chipndip]

If you get better at the game, her chance for success will get smaller.

Does this not make sense to anyone else, or is it just me?

Two problems with that:

1) She has so many options that it's not like landing a success case off of ANY of them is that hard. Some of them are seemingly measly tilts, even.

2) A success case shouldn't be this strong anyway. You're talking as if it's fair that someone can KO you from 0% outside of freak cases where your shield breaks and you're right on the ledge, and even then it's fair to say that no one expects that at 0%.

Sure, experience lowers the odds of a success case, but the Bayo player's experience INCREASES the odds of a success case...however Bayo's filled with a crap ton of options on offense and defense, making avoiding playing into her hands significantly more difficult than it should be, given her insanely high reward. Nerf the reward, the options, or a mix of both.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Two problems with that:
1) She has so many options that it's not like landing a success case off of ANY of them is that hard. Some of them are seemingly measly tilts, even.

And it falls on the person who's fighting her to educate themselves on those options and anticipate which ones she may go for depending on the situation.

2) A success case shouldn't be this strong anyway. You're talking as if it's fair that someone can KO you from 0%

She cant, though.

 

[Vhaltz]

It should be worth mentioning that one of the players that got decimated in Spain's Tech Republic tournament was Greward, a brawl veteran who got 2nd place in a large European tournament not too long ago. Only 2nd to Mr R and with decent competition like iStudying or J Miller, off the top of my head.

The "Git good" comments are pretty baffling when only the world top of top players have managed to do well and even then some have barely avoided losing sets to Bayonetta (Anti got 3-2 against Tyroy recently). "It's only been 2 months!", 2 months should be long enough to learn a matchup considering that we haven't seen any huge breakthroughs in Bayo combos/tech and most of the stuff we see in tournament was around in the first week after release. Specially since Rydle has dominated 2 pretty large monthlies before this national tournament and the top players who usually won these have been focusing more on studying this particular matchup for the national than anything else. Everybody who attended the monthlies expected Bayonetta to win regardless of all out of state threats.

At this point it seems likely that Spain will ban Bayonetta until there's a patch to fix her stupid stuff.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

The "Git good" comments are pretty baffling when only the world top of top players have managed to do well and even then some have barely avoided losing sets to Bayonetta

xP
So we shouldn't get good because we have to be the best of the best to win? This was already true before Bayonetta.

At this point it seems likely that Spain will ban Bayonetta until there's a patch to fix her stupid stuff.

xP
"Her stupid stuff", we are banning a 2 month old character now?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

-if she hits a shield she jumps very high and suffers ??? frames of lag (idk how much and it's not on KH, anyone has frame data ?)

FAF 23

 

[Greward]

We don't have a super small community, we capped the spanish tournament at 160 people and we have around 400 active smash4 players all around our country. Hard to say accurately though.

It's the decision of our community as a whole and we will probably have a decision in a few days (and at the end of the day it's the decision of each tournament organizer), but overall opinion is that she has to be gone.
We have very few Bayonetta players atm but some people are picking her up right now and people is afraid. We know she's extremely more broken than any character has been in smash4, I guess this opinion will be coming late in the US since top players aren't using her. We've had a hardcore softban since a week after release but it's hardly doing anything.

We're just doing what is best for our scene. It's growing super fast and going big, we don't want to destroy it because of a stupid error of the game designers. I don't know what will do the other scenes but I'm expecting to not be the only one to have her banned, some other scene should have realized it too.

Tbh the fact that mediocre players are suddenly god tier players making top16 at USA majors is suspicious at least. There are a few top players who are pro-ban, and some of them are probably to afraid to say the ban word.


ps: bayonetta boards are not the best place to discuss a ban for this character

 

[SoccerStar9001]

We don't have a super small community, we capped the spanish tournament at 160 people and we have around 400 active smash4 players all around our country. Hard to say accurately though.

If that's the case, there is not a lot of reason to discuss your community's problem here.
Ban whoever you guys want. Want to ban Mario? Go ahead. Want to ban Rosa? Not a problem. Ban everyone but Fox? Not my problem.

It's the decision of our community as a whole and we will probably have a decision in a few days (and at the end of the day it's the decision of each tournament organizer), but overall opinion is that she has to be gone.
We have very few Bayonetta players atm but some people are picking her up right now and people is afraid. We know she's extremely more broken than any character has been in smash4, I guess this opinion will be coming late in the US since top players aren't using her. We've had a hardcore softban since a week after release but it's hardly doing anything.

Hmmmm...... why is she broken then? She has many notable flaws. You guys really need to see if the people picking her up and consistantly be successful, you banned the character in just one week!
Hardcore softban......? xP

We're just doing what is best for our scene. It's growing super fast and going big, we don't want to destroy it because of a stupid error of the game designers. I don't know what will do the other scenes but I'm expecting to not be the only one to have her banned, some other scene should have realized it too.

It is really hard to say you wouldn't be the only one to have her banned since I heard some already did. However, I think other community won't really care. When I look at many Bayonetta footage from other camps, the amount of Bayonettas is quite limited and not all of them win. There isn't a lot of grounds to banning her since she is completely beatable and has notable flaws.

Tbh the fact that mediocre players are suddenly god tier players making top16 at USA majors is suspicious at least. There are a few top players who are pro-ban, and some of them are probably to afraid to say the ban word.

I really love it if you can provide names of who you were talking about, you can't really claim OP character is the reason mediocre players reached success. Plus, I heard Pound 2016 was won by a Mewtwo, not Bayonetta, surely she isn't OP.
The only extremely successful Bayonetta I can think of is Pink Fresh.

 

[Greward]

As I stated in previous posts, actual god players don't want to play her, that's why she isn't winning majors.
And they don't want to play her because they have realized how overpowered Bayonetta is, and if any of them were to pick her up tournaments would get stupid.
She's soft banned in USA atm. I'm pretty sure all god players know this is a race before pink fresh or salem gets good enough to start beating them or she gets nerfed enough to not be gamebreaking, and they are hoping for the latter.

No offense to him but Saj doesn't have the skill level to get top16 at a major like Pound, and with him others. I don't wanna call names because I don't want to be disrespectful.

What flaws she has? That she's light? lol
Her neutral is super good, has best disadvantage and advantage in the game by far because of multiple aerial dashes, safe any% kill options since 0%.

 

[Shaya]

ps: bayonetta boards are not the best place to discuss a ban for this character

We had a redirect from the competitive, but the thread was started here and has been spread around. You're going to have bias from posters anywhere, really.
Possibly / probably may get moved, but being here was an attempt at keeping it smaller in discussion size so it's easier to manage ^^

If that's the case, there is not a lot of reason to discuss your community's problem here.

The original reason the thread was posted and what it's discussion is meant to be focusing on primarily (over 'adapt' and power level opinions) was the discussion of news that tournament organisers / regions were banning Bayonetta from tournaments.

So here it is. More of that.

 

[Gecko Moria]

She cant, though.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/vgbootcamp2-201603133819724

 

[SoccerStar9001]

As I stated in previous posts, actual god players don't want to play her, that's why she isn't winning majors.
And they don't want to play her because they have realized how overpowered Bayonetta is, and if any of them were to pick her up tournaments would get stupid.

That is a very faulty and weak argument, I can in theory put Little Mac in this argument too.
Why ban her if that is the case, her results in camp that don't ban her is already limited. This is not a good argument on Bayonetta is OP.

She's soft banned in USA atm. I'm pretty sure all god players know this is a race before pink fresh or salem gets good enough to start beating them or she gets nerfed enough to not be gamebreaking, and they are hoping for the latter.

This I believe is similar to how they soft ban Lucas, Roy, and Ryu right? The community wasn't used to them and they had to be researched.
If this isn't it, it is very ridiculous to ban a character based on "bad players are now good" argument. You have to ban her based on her own merits, not anyone else's.

No offense to him but Saj doesn't have the skill level to get top16 at a major like Pound, and with him others. I don't wanna call names because I don't want to be disrespectful.

That is honestly quite offensive, because he isn't a top player his own merits and skill don't matter right?
If you won't call names, stop with the claim that mediocre player become god tier players with Bayonetta.

What flaws she has? That she's light? lol
Her neutral is super good, has best disadvantage and advantage in the game by far because of multiple aerial dashes, safe any% kill options since 0%.

Her neutral is awful, her framedata is very bad and her mobility is sub par at best.
Her sideways aerial dashes can only be used once if it hits no one, her upwards dash is short ranged. And both of them give Bayonetta more landing lag when she touch the ground. Plus, having aerial dashes doesn't really make a character OP.
The 0 to death is avoidable with correct DI, and it isn't exactly rare for Bayonetta's opponents to live past 100%. I heard there was no actual 0 to death in pound, but I can't confirm it because I didn't watch it.
Your only real point that Bayonetta is OP is the potential 0 to death. However, if it discovered that the 0 to death is completely escapable, your claim on Bayonetta is OP falls apart.

The original reason the thread was posted and what it's discussion is meant to be focusing on primarily (over 'adapt' and power level opinions) was the discussion of news that tournament organisers / regions were banning Bayonetta from tournaments.

So here it is. More of that.

I see, my bad completely.

 

[blackghost]

no other character in the game gets the rewards she consistently gets off of punishing mistakes

The assumption that bayo will kill you every time she touches you is false. The second
Assumption that bayo can actually kill you ever time she touches you is false.
Really so dk, bowser, shiek, zss, and Rosa don't punish players for over extending as well? Ding dong and boost kick are way more consistent than bayo combos. At pound people escaped numerous times in top 8. Every high tier punishes hard for over extending
I don't care what is in twitch chat. She has weaknesses and when the opponent understands that see pound Mars vs pink fresh or 9b versus abadongo recently she plummets in effectiveness.
This idea that bayo is safe at all times is proven false yet peoplease still remain ignorant. 0 to death are possible aren't practical as they require your opponent to be off the ground and get hit with a dabk.
Even on this thread I'm reading she has great defensive options. I know of one what are all the others?
There is blind hate towards this character the general player isn't trying to learn what she does they are mindless sheep following after commentators and Zero who have motives behind what they say.

 

[Gecko Moria]

The assumption that bayo will kill you every time she touches you is false. The second
Assumption that bayo can actually kill you ever time she touches you is false.
Really so dk, bowser, shiek, zss, and Rosa don't punish players for over extending as well? Every high tier punishes hard for over extending

Well there is a CHANCE every time you get hit by several of her moves that you will die at any %. (d-tilt dABK ect.) And while other characters do punish for overextention no other character has the threat of immediate death in retaliation for the littlest of commitment and at the same time those other characters may be good at punishing they have weaknesses in other areas. Bayo just does everything. I don't know if she's ban worthy yet we'll see after her meta has developed a good amount.

 

[Charoite]

As I stated in previous posts, actual god players don't want to play her, that's why she isn't winning majors.
And they don't want to play her because they have realized how overpowered Bayonetta is, and if any of them were to pick her up tournaments would get stupid.
She's soft banned in USA atm. I'm pretty sure all god players know this is a race before pink fresh or salem gets good enough to start beating them or she gets nerfed enough to not be gamebreaking, and they are hoping for the latter.

If you want to ban bayonetta, in your region do it, but then your region will be more weak at international level, if you cant wait 2 or 3 months to see if the balance team adjust she, like you know ever single top tier??,I dont believe that good players dont want to use her, because if she was so broken and can win tournaments for you easy then you are leaving easy money on the table, does that make sense?? why the majority of top players switched to when they were top tier, but now a supposedly even better character is out, and you dont use her because of pride?? that doesn't make sense.

 

[Gurre]

Banning Bayonetta is ,in my opinion, quite stupid because she isn't nearly as broken as brawl Metaknight (Got banned then unbanned) or melee Fox (Completely broken) aren't banned, beacuse banning bayonetta won't solve anything. Everyone will start protesting and starting to complain about Zero Suit, Mario or RosaLuma or something.