Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

DougEfresh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
103
I’m pretty satisfied myself. While there are overall design choices I’d look at to make replacements and add more references, they’re perfect for me. They play exactly how I’d picture they play and they are one of the few characters I feel like I can actually play. Even Mario, who’s said by many to be easy to pick up and play, I’m so confused how to jump and recover properly. With Banjo & Kazooie, I’ve never had that problem.

As for competitive play—I feel like people unfairly put expectations on Banjo & Kazooie that shouldn’t have been there in the first place. They are supposed to be an all-around character, and therefore mid-tier fits them perfectly. If anything, characters like Mario are more high tier than he should be, as he’s also supposed to be an all-around character. I feel like a lot of people jumped on the Banjo-Kazooie bandwagon knowing little about the series, and as such, had high expectations based on their popularity. But fans that I know knew better—we just hoped he wouldn’t be bottom tier, and that he’s not is an accomplishment to me. I’m glad they feel like a base game character, as if they were always in there all along. I just wish they were to begin with.

So, while it’d be nice to get enough buffs so that Banjo & Kazooie were more in the discussion, which is unfairly biased towards competitive play, I’m satisfied with them as I’m a casual Smash player who wanted a unique character to come back home to play with their N64 pals. And they did. That’s what matters to me.

Happy Banjo & Kazooie anniversary everyone! Hope we’re all rarin’ to go for years to come!
I'd say everything said here is a pretty keen assessment of things all things considered. As far as holistic representation of the Banjo-Kazooie series, I think Sakurai and Co. did a great job, and I definitely agree with their playstyle being more suited toward a "jack of all trades, master of none" archetype than leaning toward any specific type of competitive character.

People definitely love to complain and jump to conclusions, and BK in Ultimate is a premiere example of these phenomena with how often they're labeled as zoners when they really aren't particularly good with that playstyle at all compared to other characters in the same category.

I think for me, the main things I'd like to see for improvements to Banjo & Kazooie are an increased grab range (since it really is very bad in its current state) with some slightly faster frame data on grenade eggs, blue eggs and his aerials. I understand his very slow air speed is an intended character weakness and that's perfectly fine, I just think a slightly faster nair and fair would be great for him so he's not quite as easily abused in the air (in neutral) by so many characters (he's heavy and a fast faller, so Banjo & Kazooie are already quite prone to being combo food as it is). Their two projectiles are also a bit too slow currently to consistently play a keep away game with them and the end lag on grenade eggs in particular can make it easy to open them up. We'll see what happens, though.

Regardless, I still enjoy playing as them tons and strive to make them work whatever their evolution on competitive tier lists ends up being and even for an analytically minded player interested in getting into the competitive scene soon like myself, the sheer, unadulterated joy I get from playing as the bear and bird really make their competitive attributes pretty meaningless a good chunk of the time.

Anyway, happy 1 year anniversary of Banjo & Kazooie's debut in Smash Bros., everyone!
 

CosmicQuark

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
3,389
Now, to hope we get a new Banjo Kazooie game announcement.
I’d be satisfied with Rare Replay on Switch, though ideally I would love Crash style remasters (on Switch), though I’m far more skeptical of that now than I was a year ago. I feel like those are necessary steps before delving into a new game, similar to the Crash team—reacquaint themselves with what made people love those games, and use that as a base for making a new one. Here’s hoping something happens, at least.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
1,723
Wow, time really flies, eh? One whole year since Banjo & Kazooie were revealed for Smash. It feels like just yesterday that we all collectively celebrated their reveal, screaming like banshees at the sight of a golden puzzle piece bouncing along the ground. That's a moment I'll never be able to forget, and not just because I had recorded and uploaded my reaction to it. That moment was the culmination of over 15 years worth of demands finally being heard, 15 years worth of continued disappointment and ridicule evaporating within the span of a couple minutes. That moment will forever stand as an example to all other character fanbases as to what they can do when they keep their heads up high and their voices loud.

Here's to one year of Banjo & Kazooie in Smash! And here's hoping they stick around for the next game, whenever that may be! GU-HUH!
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
1,120
I'd say everything said here is a pretty keen assessment of things all things considered. As far as holistic representation of the Banjo-Kazooie series, I think Sakurai and Co. did a great job, and I definitely agree with their playstyle being more suited toward a "jack of all trades, master of none" archetype than leaning toward any specific type of competitive character.

People definitely love to complain and jump to conclusions, and BK in Ultimate is a premiere example of these phenomena with how often they're labeled as zoners when they really aren't particularly good with that playstyle at all compared to other characters in the same category.

I think for me, the main things I'd like to see for improvements to Banjo & Kazooie are an increased grab range (since it really is very bad in its current state) with some slightly faster frame data on grenade eggs, blue eggs and his aerials. I understand his very slow air speed is an intended character weakness and that's perfectly fine, I just think a slightly faster nair and fair would be great for him so he's not quite as easily abused in the air (in neutral) by so many characters (he's heavy and a fast faller, so Banjo & Kazooie are already quite prone to being combo food as it is). Their two projectiles are also a bit too slow currently to consistently play a keep away game with them and the end lag on grenade eggs in particular can make it easy to open them up. We'll see what happens, though.

Regardless, I still enjoy playing as them tons and strive to make them work whatever their evolution on competitive tier lists ends up being and even for an analytically minded player interested in getting into the competitive scene soon like myself, the sheer, unadulterated joy I get from playing as the bear and bird really make their competitive attributes pretty meaningless a good chunk of the time.

Anyway, happy 1 year anniversary of Banjo & Kazooie's debut in Smash Bros., everyone!
As a Banjo main, the zoner argument makes sense. Those greneggs are no joke, and if used in the air can be quite annoying to deal with and spark a ton of chaos.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
891
Location
New Mexico
Happy Anniversary, fellas. glad to be able to enjoy Banjo & Kazooie and being here with you all.

i remember buying the first game before the year they were announced at E3, i was pretty familiar with them after playing the first game and was completely happy when they made it in, hopefully we continue to receive great things in the future for the characters soon.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,694
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
now just a bit of fine tuning to hopefully happen in the next couple patches and they'll be perfect.
I still wish they had all the different egg types in their moveset like a Neutral Special that worked kind of similar to Shulk's Monado Arts in where you could choose which egg type you want.
 

DougEfresh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
103
As a Banjo main, the zoner argument makes sense. Those greneggs are no joke, and if used in the air can be quite annoying to deal with and spark a ton of chaos.
I'm a banjo main too, but I totally disagree with the zoner assessment that the smash community at large keeps parroting about. I think the biggest reason for the misconception is the fact that while grenade eggs are essential to the duo's game plan (as well as blue eggs to a somewhat lesser degree), this does not a zoner make.

As you probably know just as well as I do, grenade eggs spawn on f10 and its total frames are 44 (leaving a whopping 34f window to punish Banjo for using it, which I do have a bit of an issue with). Blue eggs could definitely afford to be a bit faster than f13 as well. These are tools best used to help with strings and combos and temporarily play keep away, but he absolutely cannot just camp and strictly zone opponents out like pac-man, snake, duck hunt, etc. can. This is why I mentioned making his aerials a bit faster and I'd also like some kill power buffs to some of his other moves (like usmash without rage), so Banjo is better able to switch between defense and offense and get a bit more reward from his aggression when he does go in.

To wrap this up, I definitely think Banjo & Kazooie have good tools that they can use to deal with many MUs, but giving them a bit less start up on projectiles and nair + fair, a better grab and a more reliable ground game overall, they could better execute the much more versatile gameplan that Banjo & Kazooie were designed to have and really shine in the meta. They're just a handful of QoL improvements away from being truly great competitively imo. If you wanna talk about this more, feel free to DM me, but this is all I want to write for a response to you in this thread at least.
 

CosmicQuark

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
3,389
I still wish they had all the different egg types in their moveset like a Neutral Special that worked kind of similar to Shulk's Monado Arts in where you could choose which egg type you want.
Same, it was weird seeing Hero seemingly crammed with nearly everything possible, and then to leave egg types out of Banjo & Kazooie, especially since other characters have equivalent moves for Fire, Ice, and Clockwork Kazooie eggs could work like Mechakoopas. I’m not going to let that stop my enjoyment—they feel perfect and that’s what matters.

I think a lot of development went into the stage—especially seeing it in VR (and how great that out of all the DLC characters, Banjo & Kazooie get a VR stage), you can see how much detail went into everything. It’s such a shame that people complaining about it spinning don’t try it with hazards off—spin is gone. Only change I’d make there is setting the hazardless spot to in front of Gruntilda’s Lair. It’s a far more iconic shot, and doesn’t have the ledge pros like to complain about.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
766
Switch FC
SW-1171-3129-5434
I’d be satisfied with Rare Replay on Switch, though ideally I would love Crash style remasters (on Switch), though I’m far more skeptical of that now than I was a year ago. I feel like those are necessary steps before delving into a new game, similar to the Crash team—reacquaint themselves with what made people love those games, and use that as a base for making a new one. Here’s hoping something happens, at least.
Yeah, here's hoping.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
15,708
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Looks like Rare's celebrating too.

 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,694
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
Looks like Rare's celebrating too.

Seeing the bear and bird in this game never stops bringing a smile to my face.
 

dlewis53

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
491
So, am I the only hoping that Challenger Pack 7 is revealed (or at the very least teased) at the end of the ARMS fighter's showcase? Cause otherwise, thanks to the situation with COVID-19, I have ZERO ideas on when it's going to be unveiled, which would make things rather...anxious.
 

Megadoomer

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
5,670
Switch FC
SW 0351 1523 9047
So, am I the only hoping that Challenger Pack 7 is revealed (or at the very least teased) at the end of the ARMS fighter's showcase? Cause otherwise, thanks to the situation with COVID-19, I have ZERO ideas on when it's going to be unveiled, which would make things rather...anxious.
I hope it's revealed - it's been nine months since we found out that we'd be getting more characters beyond Fighters Pass 1, and three months since we found out that we'd be getting an ARMS character. That seems like a really long wait in both cases, and you'd think they'd have a trailer ready for Challenger Pack 7, even if it's a Joker or Terry style of announcement trailer where there's no gameplay.

Still, there's no way of knowing how likely it is - you'd think that we would have gotten a Nintendo Direct by now, but that's certainly not the case.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,694
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
Everyone, it's my birthday today! Is no one going to wish me a happy birthday? :(
Happy belated birthday!

So, am I the only hoping that Challenger Pack 7 is revealed (or at the very least teased) at the end of the ARMS fighter's showcase? Cause otherwise, thanks to the situation with COVID-19, I have ZERO ideas on when it's going to be unveiled, which would make things rather...anxious.
Speaking of which, who do you guys hope Challenger Pack 7 is? I hope it's Geno. Plus it would be a cool reference towards Legend of the Seven Stars #77 get it?! :starman::starman:#77:starman::starman:
 

Megadoomer

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
5,670
Switch FC
SW 0351 1523 9047
Speaking of which, who do you guys hope Challenger Pack 7 is? I hope it's Geno. Plus it would be a cool reference towards Legend of the Seven Stars #77 get it?! :starman::starman:#77:starman::starman:
I'm hoping it's Geno. Aside from the nice coincidence of him being Challenger Pack 7, and Fighter #77, I'd like to continue the trend of E3 (or in this case, June) having a big reveal of a long-awaited character like how E3 2018 gave us Ridley and E3 2019 gave us Banjo and Kazooie. (no idea who E3/June 2021 would bring if that trend continued, though)

Plus, I've wanted him for at least 14 years now (I know that I wanted to see him in the lead-up to Brawl, though I can't remember if I wanted him before then), and it would be a relief to have him revealed fairly early on rather than having to wait until Challenger Pack 11 to find out if he'd be included or not.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,694
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
I'm hoping it's Geno. Aside from the nice coincidence of him being Challenger Pack 7, and Fighter #77, I'd like to continue the trend of E3 (or in this case, June) having a big reveal of a long-awaited character like how E3 2018 gave us Ridley and E3 2019 gave us Banjo and Kazooie. (no idea who E3/June 2021 would bring if that trend continued, though)

Plus, I've wanted him for at least 14 years now (I know that I wanted to see him in the lead-up to Brawl, though I can't remember if I wanted him before then), and it would be a relief to have him revealed fairly early on rather than having to wait until Challenger Pack 11 to find out if he'd be included or not.
It will be a glorious moment if Geno get's in as he is literally one of the last remaining huge requests from the Brawl days others being Isaac, Krystal, and Bomberman. Man I really wish Krystal's popularity didnt decline.
 
Last edited:

dlewis53

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
491
Honestly, at this point, I have no real clue who Challenger Pack 7 could be. The only characters I REALLY want to see in the game are Sora and Spyro. If by some chance both those guys got in, I wouldn't really care who the other three unknowns would be.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
978
Location
Delaware
So, a bit unrelated to this thread, but I freaking lost my mind yesterday over a new Pokemon Snap being revealed at the Pokemon Presents direct, just for the sheer sake of N64 nostalgia that washed over me! I'm so happy to see some N64 representation on the Switch, Banjo in Smash, Paper Mario getting another new game, Pokemon Snap finally getting a sequel after 20 years or so of nothing! Feels good, man. Speaking of, that topic someone brought up recently about how every single game in the N64 library fitting on one Switch cartridge has me wanting an N64 library on my Switch SO BAD. The idea of having the games I loved and grew up with like Super Smash Bros. 64, Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Pokemon Stadiums 1 & 2, Pokemon Snap, Banjo-Kazooie & Banjo-Tooie, Snowboard Kids 1 & 2, and GoldenEye 007 on a console you can take on the GO would be an absolute dream come true. I would never need another video game machine again haha
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,694
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
So, a bit unrelated to this thread, but I freaking lost my mind yesterday over a new Pokemon Snap being revealed at the Pokemon Presents direct, just for the sheer sake of N64 nostalgia that washed over me! I'm so happy to see some N64 representation on the Switch, Banjo in Smash, Paper Mario getting another new game, Pokemon Snap finally getting a sequel after 20 years or so of nothing! Feels good, man. Speaking of, that topic someone brought up recently about how every single game in the N64 library fitting on one Switch cartridge has me wanting an N64 library on my Switch SO BAD. The idea of having the games I loved and grew up with like Super Smash Bros. 64, Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Pokemon Stadiums 1 & 2, Pokemon Snap, Banjo-Kazooie & Banjo-Tooie, Snowboard Kids 1 & 2, and GoldenEye 007 on a console you can take on the GO would be an absolute dream come true. I would never need another video game machine again haha
As a big N64 fanboy I was excited as hell for the Pokemon Snap sequel.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
1,335
Pretty cool that after more than 20 years they have finally announced a sequel to Pokemon Snap.

I am happy about it and will probably get it eventually, Though I wasn't as excited as most people because while I did play it as a kid at a friend's house and played the demo at Blockbuster, I grew up way more with "Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2" on the N64 which were the Pokemon consoles games I have nostalgia for with alongside Yellow and Silver on the Game Boy Color.

Still looking forward to this throwback and visually it looks very nice and solid, The Pokemon models look very similar to "Pokken Tournament" No surprise seeing as Bandai Namco is developing this one, But should be a fun game and can't wait to see what new features they will add and how much more Pokemon will be included seeing how it's been 20 years and generations since the N64.
 
Last edited:

dlewis53

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
491
Alright, so the showcase for the ARMS fighter will officially be this coming Monday at 10 AM EST, which likely means the fighter may be released the same day. I'm still betting that it's going to be Spring Man, with either half or all of his alts being other ARMS fighters.

Also, there was an extra message from NoA that there won't be any other fighter reveals other than who the ARMS character will be, so unfortunately, unless Sakurai decides to address the DLC release schedule for the future, I have no idea when Challenger Pack 7 is going to be revealed, much less released.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
15,708
Location
Somewhere in the West.
I've had an interestingly odd dream last night.

It was about some sort of Mario party game whose main story mode involved breaking a company's safe that's reputed to be unbreakable, and the roster involved a few unexpected choices: Tiny Kong and, even more unexpectedly, an appropriately aged-up Tooty (seemingly wearing a white shirt, and purple leather jacket and pants, from what I could see on the character portrait)!

Oh, and Wario had the ability to give himself plastic surgery and become a lean muscleman out of sheer will, for some reason. His attempt to break the safe had it sent flying with Plankton (:confused:) on it.

Yeah, I don't know either.

Alright, so the showcase for the ARMS fighter will officially be this coming Monday at 10 AM EST, which likely means the fighter may be released the same day. I'm still betting that it's going to be Spring Man, with either half or all of his alts being other ARMS fighters.

Also, there was an extra message from NoA that there won't be any other fighter reveals other than who the ARMS character will be, so unfortunately, unless Sakurai decides to address the DLC release schedule for the future, I have no idea when Challenger Pack 7 is going to be revealed, much less released.
We'll probably hear about FP7 in the next couple of months, since Ninty may want to air a Direct on September.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
766
Switch FC
SW-1171-3129-5434
Pretty cool that after more than 20 years they have finally announced a sequel to Pokemon Snap.

I am happy about it and will probably get it eventually, Though I wasn't as excited as most people because while I did play it as a kid at a friend's house and played the demo at Blockbuster, I grew up way more with "Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2" on the N64 which were the Pokemon consoles games I have nostalgia for with alongside Yellow and Silver on the Game Boy Color.

Still looking forward to this throwback and visually it looks very nice and solid, The Pokemon models look very similar to "Pokken Tournament" No surprise seeing as Bandai Namco is developing this one, But should be a fun game and can't wait to see what new features they will add and how much more Pokemon will be included seeing how it's been 20 years and generations since the N64.
And if Pokemon Snap can return, there's hope for our duo!
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,694
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2

So Source Gaming is about to drop their mega poll results. I remember in last year's poll our bear and bird duo scored 1st place. I wonder who is going to take their throne this year. I think Waluigi or Bandana Dee will score 1st place. Dee I believe scored 2nd place last year.
 

CosmicQuark

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
3,389
I'veWe'll probably hear about FP7 in the next couple of months, since Ninty may want to air a Direct on September.
Yeah it is a bit unfortunate, though. The great thing about Fighter’s Pass 1 is with Joker being first, it incentivized a lot of people to buy the pass from the get go. That’s not the case with Arms, and was hoping an E3 type dual reveal to happen this June with a big character to get me hyped for the pass.

While I did say I’d try to get every character, I’m still uncertain if I’m going to get the pass or characters individually. I just don’t want to fall into the trap of automatically getting it without enough incentive to.

And I am so excited for Pokémon Snap. Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, Battle for Bikini Bottom is being rebooted in a day or so, and now Pokémon Snap is getting a sequel. It’s been great for 90s/early 00s nostalgia.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
766
Switch FC
SW-1171-3129-5434
Yeah it is a bit unfortunate, though. The great thing about Fighter’s Pass 1 is with Joker being first, it incentivized a lot of people to buy the pass from the get go. That’s not the case with Arms, and was hoping an E3 type dual reveal to happen this June with a big character to get me hyped for the pass.

While I did say I’d try to get every character, I’m still uncertain if I’m going to get the pass or characters individually. I just don’t want to fall into the trap of automatically getting it without enough incentive to.

And I am so excited for Pokémon Snap. Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, Battle for Bikini Bottom is being rebooted in a day or so, and now Pokémon Snap is getting a sequel. It’s been great for 90s/early 00s nostalgia.
I predict the upcoming big Pokemon Project they're going to show on the 24th may be Pokemon Stadium 3! I hope...
 
Top Bottom