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Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

Last Elixir

Smash Cadet
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Oct 23, 2010
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West Des Moines, Iowa
But whether or not it would be feasible (which it totally would be, because Final Smashes are just one more move on characters they've already spent thousands of hours on), can we all agree that it would be awesome if AA and Thinkaman (they're doing the coding, right? sorry, I've been lurking for a while, but I don't really know anybody) balanced out the Final Smashes? Because I love the single player of this game, and I prefer Balanced Brawl to Brawl because it makes me feel like I'm not using a cheap character. But when the items are cheap, and the cheapest item of all to get is the smash ball, but on Mario you just kind of miss while Sonic and the Star Foxes get pretty much an instant win (if you know how to use a Landmaster), it kind of defeats the purpose.

If there were a version of single player mode that didn't have items then all my problems would be solved, but there's not a mode like that because items are fun, and they're what the designers of this game intended us to play it with (even though they obviously at least gave us the option not to). But I feel like not editing them at all when they are imbalanced or poorly designed is just not going as far as this project could.

Balancing the characters is more important than balancing the final smashes, pokemon, assist trophies and items (which are all in the same design space), but it seems like over the past few years you guys have done a pretty solid job at the characters. And if all you did was remove Ressetti and Nintendogs, you'd be making it a better game, because I love assist trophis, but I'm pretty sure nobody actually likes it when they show up.

So is it time to move on to the next step yet, or not?
I think it would be nice if they did it, but also a tremendous waste of time because characters would need to be balanced with them having their final smashes in mind, which would potentially make them not balanced if they didn't have items on, which is a whole realm I'm not interested in going into. Also, with the exception of Fox/Sonic/etc that are practically promised KOs from their FSs, I'd argue that the fan and beamsword are more broken than a lot of FSs.

EDIT: The Baseball Bat is pretty broken too.
 

IYM!

Smash Lord
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this "!" is part of my nick (Chile)
there are many unbalanced FS:falco::fox::wario::sonic::rob::popo: come to my mind

his FS can kill more than one time, and dont have the "miss" factor, they just need press B without to worry about miss the attack


but :mario2: :ganondorf: :falcon: :jigglypuff: :ike: :link2: have to worry to dont miss, if they press B and the opponent can evade the move, all the efforts that they give in break the Smash Ball will go to the trash
 

A2ZOMG

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Ganon and Ike combo into their FSes easily though. Ganon can FS after D-air at low percents or Flame Choke. Ike can FS after Jab.

The other ones are more situational yeah.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Kansas City, MO
This project was never like Brawl+ in the first place. We had a much more clear vision, a much more clear plan, and a simpler and more united team (just the two of us). We also have much more confidence to stand by the quality of our work; Balanced Brawl version 2 is the current official public version, and it is still very high quality. We don't believe our work crumbles if there isn't constant change and active development; Balanced Brawl is built to last.

That being said, Thinkaman and I are at work on a fairly different direction, but I can't really discuss the particulars at all (it's "don't tell your mom" code top secret). For practical reasons, the only people with whom sharing stuff could directly benefit us would be other people who can implement stuff, but after the ledge grab limit code fiasco I'm fairly disinclined to be trustful, especially for matters that require the highest level of secrecy. We are still committed to our strong ethics of openness in that any resources we create or happen upon in development we will happily share with the community (Thinkaman has a big project in that regard he's going to dump on the forums in the next week), but the particulars of our project I fear are very private.

I really could just unproductively carry on and on about Brawl+ especially after that ledge grab code fiasco about which I'm still extremely unhappy even half a year later, but the practical effect is that Thinkaman and I are at work very privately on some new angles, we can't discuss pretty much anything about what we're doing with anyone other than "something", and it's going to be several months at least before we can say anything more. In the meantime, we earnestly hope everyone who has been playing Balanced Brawl continues to enjoy it.

I will say I wouldn't worry about items.
 

libertyernie

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
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929
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Eau Claire, WI
I just want to thank you for making Balanced Brawl. It's great to have a modset that I know is balanced better than regular Brawl, but at the same time keeping what makes it Brawl.
I think one of the reasons Brawl+ got canceled is because different people wanted different things out of it, and having both BBrawl and P:M available is the ideal solution. (Not to mention Brawl- which always impresses me as well.)
 

Last Elixir

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
61
Location
West Des Moines, Iowa
This project was never like Brawl+ in the first place. We had a much more clear vision, a much more clear plan, and a simpler and more united team (just the two of us). We also have much more confidence to stand by the quality of our work; Balanced Brawl version 2 is the current official public version, and it is still very high quality. We don't believe our work crumbles if there isn't constant change and active development; Balanced Brawl is built to last.

That being said, Thinkaman and I are at work on a fairly different direction, but I can't really discuss the particulars at all (it's "don't tell your mom" code top secret). For practical reasons, the only people with whom sharing stuff could directly benefit us would be other people who can implement stuff, but after the ledge grab limit code fiasco I'm fairly disinclined to be trustful, especially for matters that require the highest level of secrecy. We are still committed to our strong ethics of openness in that any resources we create or happen upon in development we will happily share with the community (Thinkaman has a big project in that regard he's going to dump on the forums in the next week), but the particulars of our project I fear are very private.

I really could just unproductively carry on and on about Brawl+ especially after that ledge grab code fiasco about which I'm still extremely unhappy even half a year later, but the practical effect is that Thinkaman and I are at work very privately on some new angles, we can't discuss pretty much anything about what we're doing with anyone other than "something", and it's going to be several months at least before we can say anything more. In the meantime, we earnestly hope everyone who has been playing Balanced Brawl continues to enjoy it.

I will say I wouldn't worry about items.
That's totally cool with me, I'm just glad to hear that stuff is still in the works! BBrawl is a ton of fun to play and I eagerly look forward to whatever it is you're doing next.
 

John12346

Smash Master
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Oh right, time to mention this.

Lucario's UpB has the same failing as Snake's; if he gets air released before landing, he doesn't get his UpB back.

In addition, if Lucario clings to a wall using his UpB, then gets footstooled before landing, he doesn't get his UpB back.

Fix pl0x. D:
 

John12346

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No, I mean

If I use UpB offstage, and the opponent grabs me somehow before I touch solid ground, and air releases me, I don't get my UpB back.

Snake, Sonic, and GaW all suffer from this too, but they had theirs fixed.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
620
Location
Miami, Florida
I have not, how are you loading it?
Riivolution. Using the regular codeset minus the file loader code.
I have tried and failed for months to pinpoint any one cause for the freezing. Sometimes its silent, but often its loud. All characters have worked at some point or another, as have all sages. Often, it will freeze playing the same stage, characters and scenario its played dozens of times. It will freeze during character intros, and when I restart, I will do the exact same match and it will play through fine. Sometimes it will randomly freeze in the middle of a match, but Ive tested all items and Pokemon individually and none of them cause a freeze.

I'm really stumped. :/
 

ぱみゅ

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Riivolution. Using the regular codeset minus the file loader code.
I have tried and failed for months to pinpoint any one cause for the freezing. Sometimes its silent, but often its loud. All characters have worked at some point or another, as have all sages. Often, it will freeze playing the same stage, characters and scenario its played dozens of times. It will freeze during character intros, and when I restart, I will do the exact same match and it will play through fine. Sometimes it will randomly freeze in the middle of a match, but Ive tested all items and Pokemon individually and none of them cause a freeze.

I'm really stumped. :/
How's that even possible? I use Riivolutiuon as well, but I never had any freeze whyle playing BBrawl (nor any other game). Did you removed the Stage included in the download?
 
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How's that even possible? I use Riivolutiuon as well, but I never had any freeze whyle playing BBrawl (nor any other game). Did you removed the Stage included in the download?
You mean the custom stage or the edited bBrawl stages? Cause I did remove the custom stage... I dont use bBrawl stages at all. All my stages are imports.

Send me your xml and codehandler. Maybe my problem lies there.


Do you have problems with standard Brawl or any other games? It sounds like something that could just be your Wii going out. =P
Nope, this is the only thing that causes problems for me.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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Lucario's we are aware of, and we weren't able to fix it. The problem is that when these characters get grab released, the variables that store their ability to use their up specials aren't getting cleared which means they still can't up special. This is a general bug that affects Pit, Lucario, Mr. Game & Watch, Snake, and Sonic. We fixed this by putting a variable clear function in their ground and air breaks which is a per-character change. We found that most of these characters used LA-Bit[61] (Pit, Snake, Sonic) and that Mr. Game & Watch uses LA-Bit[62]. We just couldn't find what variable Lucario uses, and it wasn't for lack of searching. We tested not only LA-Bit[61] and LA-Bit[62] but also several nearby variables, and we even tried asking the people exploring PSA at the time if they knew what variable controlled this. The only answer we were able to get was someone being pretty sure it was LA-Bit[61] or LA-Bit[62] which we of course know is false. If we grinded at it hard enough, we could probably solve this, but frankly, this bug is unimportant enough that we decided to make other things a development priority (the general bug is really only a problem for Snake and is a bigger problem for G&W and Sonic than Lucario). If you know what variable controls Lucario's ability to do up special, please let us know and we will doubtless make use of that.

As per the foostool behavior, I'm not sure that's a problem though it is something to think about. On one hand, I have a feeling that the only one of those five characters who gets his up special back from being footstooled is G&W (who by design gets his up special back under more circumstances than the others), but on the other hand, I can see an argument that it's really weird that Pit and Lucario can get their up speicals back if they are footstooled out of helpless but not out of their falling when they correctly use their up specials to avoid helpless. I'll look into exactly how this works across all five characters, talk with Thinkaman about it, and reach some conclusion.

There are, of course, other priorities in terms of minor bug-fixes. Here's a good example of a bug we currently don't have fixed but would like to fix and is more important than Lucario up special issues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWZ_IStFrPc

As per freezing when playing Balanced Brawl, as others have said, this should not happen and does not happen with most people. Your response to the question about custom stages indicates a misunderstanding though. BBrawl doesn't come with unique stages (we're of the position that Brawl's default stages are just plain better than any of the hacked "new" stages to the point that the "new" stages just aren't worth using at all). It comes with a "custom stage" as in a file that is a file read by Brawl's stage builder. This is smash stack. If used in an inappropriately configured code set, it can cause freezing. BBrawl by default is correctly configured. If you monkey with it and remove, say, the "no custom stages" code, then it will cease being correctly configured (that will cause consistent freezing though). If you are a HBC user or the type of user who would use BBrawl with non-default files, we assumed you were an advanced user who would be familiar with this and easily able to edit it to your liking (and, of course, we have no problem with people doing this). Time has proven this a poor assumption, but I can assure you that if you tinkered with BBrawl and are now getting freezing, the most likely cause by far is that your changes are what are causing freezing in some way. I confess that we're doing less troubleshooting these days than we used to, but looking at the differences between how we suggest running BBrawl on our site and how you are running it would probably help you find the root cause of your freezing.

One thing that smash stack will cause freezing with is the "Random" stage selection setting. No, I do not mean picking random on the stage select screen. I mean going into the menu and changing the option for how stages are picked from the default (which lets anyone pick a stage and might also be configured to "winner picks" or "loser picks") to "Random" which in normal play causes the stage select screen to never load and instead automatically picks a random stage. I doubt this is the issue in this case, but if you are messing with that setting after playing BBrawl for a while, that would explain your crashing issues.
 
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Hmm. I have mine set to Take Turns. I'm going to load up the original bBrawl without any custom characters or stages and play it for a while, and see how long I go without freezing. If nothing happens, I'll just start over from scratch and re-texture and re-change everything. My common5 pac has gone through some serious changes over time, and it may not be as stable as a clean one.

Thank you for the feedback.
 

ぱみゅ

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Hmm. I have mine set to Take Turns. I'm going to load up the original bBrawl without any custom characters or stages and play it for a while, and see how long I go without freezing. If nothing happens, I'll just start over from scratch and re-texture and re-change everything. My common5 pac has gone through some serious changes over time, and it may not be as stable as a clean one.

Thank you for the feedback.
Also, whenever I got the chance, I'll share you my Riivolution method, and see what happens.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
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Riivolution occasionally crashes, that's all. It happens very, very rarely, and usually immediately after selecting a character or hitting "Start" at the character select screen.

Actually, I've never had a crash at any other point, ever.
 

ぱみゅ

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Well, as for the Riivolution stuff, I use Hozu's method, and I've never had any problem with it.

@canine: The code is in the .txt downlad, if you know how to edit your own .gct, you can do it from there.


EDIT: Do you stil thinking BBrawl MK doesn't deserve a couple buffs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFQtAubet4
 

caninepikmin432

Smash Rookie
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@canine: The code is in the .txt downlad, if you know how to edit your own .gct, you can do it from there.


EDIT: Do you stil thinking BBrawl MK doesn't deserve a couple buffs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFQtAubet4
sorry, but i don't know how to edit the .gct file
can you tell me the code or something?

and MK doesn't need any buffs, cause on the BBrawl site, they wanted all of the fighters to be at diddy kong's level.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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That trick is ridiculously technical with situation specific timing to the point that I doubt many players are going to be doing that much in real matches. It's like timing a power shield except you have to be ready for an even tighter timing on throwing out your second attack which means you need an even better read on the other guy and also need to have great execution regardless. Also, due to the nature of the input, you basically have to do it on prediction, and if they don't hit your shield with the timing you expected and trigger the power shielding, you just buffered a shield grab and are probably about to get hit. Also, it's hardly unique to Mach Tornado; similar styled counters could be used to almost any direct attacking move.

In other words, yes, we are aware of that.

The easy way to edit .gct files is with a program called "code manager". Find the most recent version of that and then make use of the .txt file included with BBrawl that includes a list of codes (code manager will be able to read it). We have unlimited camera codes in that text file by default; we just didn't "turn them on" in the default .gct.
 

caninepikmin432

Smash Rookie
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The easy way to edit .gct files is with a program called "code manager". Find the most recent version of that and then make use of the .txt file included with BBrawl that includes a list of codes (code manager will be able to read it). We have unlimited camera codes in that text file by default; we just didn't "turn them on" in the default .gct.
The Ocarina Code Manager? So I just use the text file on the code manager and they will be activated, right?
 

Barkapple

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Jan 4, 2011
Messages
2
Hey I'm a complete noob at this, but is there any way too get the Balanced brawl to work with a USB flash drive? My brawl disc got too many scratches and is not working anymore. I have been looking around for 5 hours but I haven't found an answer. I followed the installation instructions on the BB homepage but it did not work. Uloader(Ocarina?) says there are cheat codes available but it still isn't loading. Nothing happends when I open Stage builder (yes i have removed all stages). Would be greatful if you could help me.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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It is possible to do, but I don't personally know how. Both Thinkaman and I run Brawl off a retail disk. I can't really help you more, sorry.

Yes, the Ocarina Code Manager is the old name of the program. Some of the older versions (kinda old but not really old) are not usable because they enforce the 256 line limit. If you get a really old version or the newest version, you'll be fine.
 

caninepikmin432

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Yes, the Ocarina Code Manager is the old name of the program. Some of the older versions (kinda old but not really old) are not usable because they enforce the 256 line limit. If you get a really old version or the newest version, you'll be fine.
sorry for asking so many questions but
I opened the gameconfig.txt file on the ocarina code manager, but in the "game name" section, it came up with "RSB?01"
Am i doing this right?
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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*facepalm*

No, no you're not.

That file does not contain codes. Open the Balanced Brawl codeset. There's a link to it on the balanced brawl site.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
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Messages
7,336
...

No.

DO NOT TOUCH OR EDIT GAMECONFIG.TXT, just leave it where it is.

Save the txt file from the bBrawl website. SEPERATELY.

Open that new text file with code manage.
 

caninepikmin432

Smash Rookie
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Messages
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The United States
...

No.

DO NOT TOUCH OR EDIT GAMECONFIG.TXT, just leave it where it is.

Save the txt file from the bBrawl website. SEPERATELY.

Open that new text file with code manage.
how does that relay onto balanced brawl then? do i just activate some of the codes, then put it into the sd card with balanced brawl?
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Yes. You have to go to file -> Export to gct and then overwrite the original gct in the CODES folder.
 

Barkapple

Smash Rookie
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Jan 4, 2011
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2
It is possible to do, but I don't personally know how. Both Thinkaman and I run Brawl off a retail disk. I can't really help you more, sorry.

Yes, the Ocarina Code Manager is the old name of the program. Some of the older versions (kinda old but not really old) are not usable because they enforce the 256 line limit. If you get a really old version or the newest version, you'll be fine.
Alright, i found a solution thanks! :)
 

LordshadowRagnarok

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 26, 2009
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Bastok
Is the stage select screen override buried in the Omnibus code? I'm trying to mix this with the stage expansion, but I can't seem to get it to work
 
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