Alright, just finished uploading the first (and hopefully only?) release candidate for BBrawl 3.
BBrawl 3 RC1 Download Link
(Smashstack->Gecko load method is included in this particular upload, you can use the files with whatever method you like.)
If you were expecting crazy or flashy changes, in general you won't find that here. The goal of this project has never been change for the sake of change, so things that aren't broken aren't getting fixed. As it turns out, it seems we got a lot of things right and there hasn't been much to fix.
That said, there are plenty of loose ends to tweak; small things that got overlooked, or perhaps something we just plain got wrong. And then there's Ice Climbers.
It's no secret that in previous releases we sort of swept ICs under the rug; heck, we took the
opposite approach to actually solving them by just making them exploiting them more difficult and calling it a day from there. I think this was probably the right call at the time, since ICs are a huge time sink and we had over 25+ other characters needing serious attention... However, with most things in a stable state, we can finally properly tackle Brawl's biggest design problem.
I'll list the changes along with commentary in their case.
Note that all previous BBrawl changes have been reverted; ICs have been completely remade from a standard Brawl state.
Popo dash attack base knockback and shield damage slightly increased
Nana dash attack damage and shield damage increased, knockback substantially decreased, now hits opponent above and behind Nana.
A theme that will be repeated here is Popo havign a stronger attack that "overwrites" Nana's when they hit together, and Nana having knockback is sets Popo up. the real utility of dash attack will be apparent in a second.
Popo f-tilt knockback extremely weaker.
Nana can no longer f-tilt, dash attacks instead.
This is the big ICs change: auto-desyncs on tilts. It's hard to describe how natural and perfect it feels, I need to get some clear videos up. In this case, the f-tilt dash attack combo is very safe for Popo and very risky for Nana. It's a combo in most cases, and the Nana dash attack normally links to Popo u-smash pretty easily.
Popo u-tilt hits (all) knockback converted to all base.
Nana can no longer u-tilt, jumps instead.
...so Popo u-tilt true combos into any Nana aerial, including sweetspot fair if you can follow their SDI. You can even get a Nana footstool for Popo smashes or a grab! Additionally, a quick u-tilt is the quickest and easiest of the de-syncs; you can do desynced Ice Blocks, Squalls, or Blizzard on command with no technical difficult.
Popo d-tilt hits somewhat downward, almost zero growth knockback, and has no innate trip chance.
Nana can no longer d-tilt, dash grabs instead.
This is a combo in most cases, including on shields. Like f-tilt/dash attack, it's a very safe situation for Popo but puts Nana in harm's way. The ability to grab with only one Climber on command is really powerful and satisfying.
Popo smashes all moderately stronger in knockback.
Popo nair has increased knockback growth, lower trajectory.
Nana nair has increased damage, almost all knockback converted to base, and lower trajectory.
Popo nair is a respectable kill move, while Nana's reliably creates space. Remember that combined, you get the best of both worlds.
Popo fair damage increased to 13% from 12%
Nana fair sweetspot knockback mostly converted to base, SDI ratio increased from 1.0x to 2.0x
Nana fair needed to consistently knockdown and have some possibility or escape, given how accessible Nana fair combos are now.
Popo bair damage increased to 12% from 11%, knockback somewhat converted to more base.
Nana bair damage increased to 9% from 8%, knockback significantly reduced and converted to base, trajectory now hits somewhat downward.
The purpose of Nana's altered bair is to push opponents back on the ground on the other side of Popo out of u-tilt, giving Popo the option of f-smashing the enemy behind him.
Popo uair sweetspot damage increased to 11% from 10%
Popo and Nana dair knockback increased, now autocancles/interrupts on frame 51 from 57/63.
Popo dair falls significantly faster, especially on startup; hits straight up.
Nana dair falls slightly slower; hits horizontally.
Note that the timing change isn't actually different in practice spatially, it merely accounts for Popo's newer falling speed. The new dair is much more useful due to it's speed and the rewarding knockback angles. (Popo's generally combos into Nana's more useful hit.) Often an aerial attacker that intercepts Popo will now be hit by Nana.
Popo b-throw base knockback slightly lowered, trajectory significantly lowered.
Popo f-throw trajectory lowered.
Popo u-throw damage increased to 11% from 6%, some knockback converted to growth.
Popo d-throw knockback converted to base; consistent knockdown.
This means that Popo always sends his opponent into tumble, but never gains much knockback past that. This means that Popo himself has no guaranteed solo chaingrabs, but does enjoy a somewhat favorable solo followup position at all %s. (I like sneaking in nairs.) It also means that regrabbing with Nana has never been easier. It's also extremely easy to sweetspot fair with Nana; since it's no logner growth based, both can be done on anyone at any % with the same ease.
Nana can no longer throw in directions other than up.
Nana u-throw damage increased to 9% from 6%, knockback growth significantly reduced.
Yep, this is the caveat. No Nana->Popo chaingrabs. It's not all bad though; Nana's upgraded u-throw reliably sets up Popo to do whatever aerial he wants. That's 23% base with no pummels out of just a Nana grab, not counting anything that led into it; still more guaranteed damage out of grab than any other character in the game.
Popo and Nana pummel damage increased to 2% from 1%, 50% longer total animation duration.
This just prevents pummel-regrab-on-break abuse.
Icicles now have a higher trajectory. (lift opponents off the ground.)
This prevents ice block lock combos, which would otherwise be far too easy given their more robust moveset options It gives ICs a slightly higher frame advantage on hit for grounded opponents, and makes Ice blocks slightly less dominating against slow diagonal recoveries like Ganondorf.
...and that's it. In some sense, the character is completely different (easily the most changed character in BBrawl now), but in another ICs have the same core they always did. You are still going to be spacing with smashes and blizzard, and trying to get those grabs at all cost. The world no longer ends if ICs land a grab, but they now have a ton more options to make that and other new nasty things happen.
The bottom line here is accessibility; despite ICs now being a little bit deeper and nuanced, they are significantly more playable for non-ICs mains. ICs mains have a way more flexible character with better access to their mastered tools (especially desync techs), and the rest of us no longer have to curse when we get them on random.
Seriously, give them a whirl, personally I'm really shocked we were able to find a solution as successful as this. The tilts changes sound so absurd on paper, but in play it just flows and...
works, with no questions.
Dair knockback has been tweaked so that it cannot be interrupted. This mainly applies to Marth and Jigglypuff.
No changes.
No changes.
Super armor on the activation frames of down-b. (Ground and aerial.)
This is primarily intended as to get Bowser a much needed counter to juggles, a key factor that has continued to hold him down.
No changes.
Dash attack second hit knockback has been tweaked so that it cannot be interrupted. This mainly applies to Marth and Jigglypuff.
No changes.
Pummel now has the correct sound effect to match coin element.
Up-b tether miss bug fixed. (Now correctly goes into specialFall)
Jab2 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
No changes.
Jab2 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
No changes.
Jab2 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
Jab1 converted to all base. (Should link consistently.)
No changes.
Jab1 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
No changes.
Nair base knockback increased, autocancels/interrupts on frame 41/56 from 55/72.
Invincible during the duration of Copy's post-swallow state.
Can ledge-grab (forward) after first aerial Hammer Swing.
[See Falcon Punch and Eruption changes.]
Bite sound effect now matches coin element.
Chef projectiles can no longer be absorbed. (Now matches G&W's Chef.)
No changes.
No changes.
Pikmin pluck speed normalized on all terrain.
No changes.
No changes.
Jab1 and jab2 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
utilt does 14% damage up from 13%, trajectory now 30 up from 20.
Falcon Punch armor reduced to 19% from 25%. (all)
Raptop Boost shield damage increased from 2 to 3 (aerial and ground, all hitboxes)
No changes.
No changes.
No changes.
Jab2 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
No changes.
Jab1 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
Dash attack angle increased to 25 from 15.
F-smash sweetspot base damage increased to 17% from 16%.
bair changed to have significantly higher base knockback, less growth
Rest damage increased to 21% from 15%, base knockback significantly lowered
Rest now heals Jigglypuff for 10% on natural wakeup.
Jigglypuff will now Fake Rest if the attack button is held down when using Rest.
Fake Rest does 1% and does not heal, but can be interrupted after frame 39. (bubbles)
Sing hitboxes slightly extended in duration to better match graphics. (same size)
Jigglypuff got a lot of changes, mostly due to the decision to ease up on her serious dash attack buffs. We believe these more evenly spread directions should do a better job of addressing her matchups than a singular focus on dash attack.
Bair's changes are calibrated to primarily combo low-weight, medium fall speed targets like Marth and G&W. F-smash's minor buff also threatens low-weight target with a potential kill out of jab locks. Rest was changed primarily in response to survey data indicating a skewed public opinion undervaluing its damage, which was causing problematic interaction with the new Eruption.Falcon Punch armor values.
Finally, Fake Rest (and Rest healing) was added to make Rest a slightly more dynamic option, particular in matcups without projectiles. The threat of Fake Rest causes Rest to be punished slightly less harshly, as Jigglypuff can roll and grab in response to most charged smashes. Remember that although Fake Rest only does 1%, the fact that it still has a hitbox means the opponent cannot distinguish the hits on powershield. (The typical case out of dair -> rest) Additionally, Fake Rest has identical invincibility frames, although the cooldown timing is frankly too poor to seriously use as any sort of dodge.
No changes.
Eruption duration super armor downgraded to 19% heavy armor.
Jab1 converted to all base. (Should link more consistently.)
U-smash pre-hit SDI multiplier changed from 1.0x to 0.0x.
D-smash base damage changed from 17/14/11 to 17/15/13, tiny base increase on later hits.
Grabbox duration (all) extended to 4 frames from 1 frame.
PKT2 should now carry opponents significantly better and more consistently.
No changes.
No changes.
No changes.
Additionally, we are pleased to announce multiple stage changes, primarily related to hitboxes! Knockback has been significantly reduced on PTAD cars, Norfair lava pillars, Pictochat arrows, cart, and bombs, Flat Zone 2 lion tamers, and the Pirate Ship catapult. Damage has been reduced to 10% from 20% on reen Green blocks, and to 10/15% from 20/35% on Pirate Ship bombs.
We hope you guys can test these files out and let us know what you think about BBrawl3; this includes Ice Climbers, other characters that changed, characters that
didn't change, and stages. We look forward to hearing from you!
Note: It was our intention to include animation fixes that would make Ganon/Bowser suicide resolution consistent. I could not generate a reasonable bone distance that yielded such, so this was not included in this file release. We will continue investigating to see if a successful set of values can be found. (Perhaps yes for Ganon, no for Bowser seems likely?)
Let us know if you have any questions.
