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Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
I'm introducing BBrawl to my friends this year. After force feeding Brawls imbalance down their throats (I had to do some nasty things) they are officially into BBrawl.


Hopefully I can get a BBrawl club up and running in my university.
 

Eldiran

Smash Lord
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Jan 8, 2008
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I play BBrawl whenever I can, even though the only people I can play with are the type who are usually more interested in Brawl-. After visiting APEX and seeing the competitive scene firsthand, I can pretty confidently say BBrawl, mechanically speaking, has a future and vBrawl does not. vBrawl's huge number of abuses and massive imbalance makes for some seriously degenerate gameplay.

Unfortunately as someone who is not very good (at APEX I played friendlies against Izumi for an hour and he consistently two-stocked me without trying very hard) I can't give you a legitimate tier list.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
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Could these two factors attribute to why BBrawl isn't working for me?

1. I downloaded the zip on a Mac
2. I just used the BBrawl file as it appears after you unzip it.
 

A2ZOMG

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What does your SD card root look like? There should be two folders, gameconfig.txt, and boot.elf.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
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The other two folders are "DCIM" and "MISC". Both are empty.

The two files you mentioned are in the balanced brawl folder.
 

A2ZOMG

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The two folders I mentioned should be "DATA" and "private". Neither should be empty. Sorry I didn't state that earlier.
 

A2ZOMG

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Yes, any Brawl hack can go on wifi as long as the opponents you play use the same hacks (replay hack doesn't count, but any hacks that change game engine physics however do count).
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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The thing with WiFi is that the game is calculating what stuff happens for every player. If people have hacks that make different things happen from each other, there are issues. If people all use the same hacks or at least functionally equivalent hacks (some things like textures or infinite replays or things like that may not matter if they are different), it all works out.
 

A2ZOMG

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Yeah, or edited character designs. Nothing that actually changes terrain or hitboxes.
 

A2ZOMG

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Why settle for side event? On the other hand, it's unbelievable the flack Renegade took for hosting BBrawl as a main event. Disregarding character balance, it's as if people actually want to put up with incredibly stupid abuses for the sake of resisting change.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I should throw out there that model edits are pretty likely to result in desynchs in matches involving Olimar since they can mess up the pluck rates of terrain. I know there's this one "rainy" FD that some people like to use around here that gives Olimar too many blues.

Anything that is just a texture causes no issues. Anything that changes the actual ground and such may have side-effects that aren't immediately obvious.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
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Nov 17, 2005
Messages
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Remove the frame speed set line in his pluck subaction that uses RA-Float and it removes inconsistency in his pluck times.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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Remove the frame speed set line in his pluck subaction that uses RA-Float and it removes inconsistency in his pluck times.
Interesting, but does this have any side effects such as changing how instant pluck gimmicks work? The only frame speed inconsistency of which I know is that he takes longer plucking on Castle Siege form 3, the lower part of Spear Pillar, and custom stage nature background. If this is the only effect of removing that line, it's quite bizarre and possibly a bug; maybe Olimar was intended to have altered speed plucks in other situations?

In any case, we hadn't investigated this in depth and it's kinda out of the blue (the desynch issues I was talking about were about plucking different colors, not at different speeds), but it's good stuff regardless.
 

JOE!

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Dps isn't a very practical way to think, as has already been alluded to. After all, in terms of raw dps, Lucas is a really good character in standard Brawl... Thinkaman and I used a three point scale of risk, reward, cost in judging relative value of offensive moves and tactics. Risk is what you stand to lose, the danger you put yourself in by going for it. It is double faceted as it is the maximum loss you face (how much damage they do to you or their chance to kill you) and the likelihood of failure (tactics more likely to work are inherently less risky). Reward is what you stand to gain if you succeed, that damage you do or the potential to kill. Cost is what resources you consume, such as losing a charge on a special move that is time consuming to build or staling a valuable move or something like that. Mostly you can neglect cost as it is only really important for a few characters, and simple risk-reward thinking is something we should all be familiar with. With Ness, attacking with Pk Thunder directly is high risk low reward. Poking with a well timed and spaced bair is about low risk medium reward. Which is a better tactic, and which should be valued more in balancing Ness? That was our kind of thinking.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286275

Actually, IC's, Pit and Yoshi all blow him out of the water
 

shanus

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Interesting, but does this have any side effects such as changing how instant pluck gimmicks work? The only frame speed inconsistency of which I know is that he takes longer plucking on Castle Siege form 3, the lower part of Spear Pillar, and custom stage nature background. If this is the only effect of removing that line, it's quite bizarre and possibly a bug; maybe Olimar was intended to have altered speed plucks in other situations?

In any case, we hadn't investigated this in depth and it's kinda out of the blue (the desynch issues I was talking about were about plucking different colors, not at different speeds), but it's good stuff regardless.
They use RA-Float 4 in the frame speed which is written to a lot in the game and likely something about that transition is what results in the slowed pluck
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
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Before, BBrawl was working fine. Now, when I load BBrawl, it just loads regular brawl, and freezes at the SSS. If i turn off my wii or try to activate the code from this "second VBrawl", my game freezes.

What should I do?
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Steps to ensure your hacks work properly:
1) Make sure the files are in the correct folder.
2) Defragment. One of the largest causes of issues is a heavily fragmented card.
3) Check your GCT. Make sure it's BBrawl.
4) Make sure you have no custom stages if you're using Stack Smash, and check for updates for Riivolution if you use that.
5) If all else fails, reformat the SD card and recopy the package.

Seeing as it's an issue with the SSS, just make sure the pac containing BBrawl's custom SSS is not corrupted or something. I don't remember what the file is off the top of my head, but iirc it was in the menu folder.
 

Astrobot7000

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Jan 24, 2008
Messages
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Sonic?

I am very interested in this hack and want to play it, but I have a question.
I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but I cant be expected to look through 45 pages of replies I hope.

Anyway here's the question. How is Sonic? I read the web page and it seems like the only thing that really adds to his killing power is the spring drop. Sonic has always been weak on defense, light, and easy to kill with his air backwards kick being the only power killing move he had. I worry now that everyone is more powerful that he is going to be even EASIER to kill without giving him the tools to fight back. I mean, he already had pathetically low priority as it was, now it seems like a 1 or 2% attack buff here and there isn't so helpful when everyone is buffed or has their flaws removed.

If my information above is incorrect please excuse me. I am only a casual player, those are just my observations of the character.
 

A2ZOMG

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His D-tilt is a better setup into potential kills (when they trip) and is an underused move that is a decent poke. His new D-air is much more versatile now that you can fastfall it to regain aerial control and that makes it better for edgeguards. His damage buffs to dash attack and U-air are also non-trival (the latter of which also increases its KO power a bit).

I don't think he's an exceptional character, but his buffs are definitely very useful. While he doesn't kill very early still, he does better with hit and run damage and now has more respectable setups.
 

Astrobot7000

Smash Rookie
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Thank you for answering.

My concern is mainly now that everyone else is balanced to remove their weaknesses, Sonic would still have exactly the same flaws because everyone else was upgraded even as Sonic was. For example, let's say there is a staircase, with Sonic on step 2 and Ike on step 4. Assuming they both go up one step the difference between them is still the same. Is this the case, or does Sonic now actually have a decent chance of competing with the others?
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I can explain the design ideas. Before I start I'll say I'm really proud of Bbrawl Sonic and am happy he's the one you picked to ask about (especially since no one wants to talk about Sonic), but I'll explain more before saying more about why.

I will say that we did sometimes reduce the magnitude of weaknesses, but it would be unfair to say that we sought to remove character specific weaknesses. Characters have in-built weaknesess and strengths that define their playstyle, and by seeking to maintain playstyles, Balanced Brawl didn't seek to change the dynamic of characters in this regard more than was necessary. In some cases, attacking a weakness head-on was necessary to avoid the "evil" of polarization. Polarization is the way some characters do much better against particular characters than others. In standard Brawl, Luigi isn't bad and can put up a great fight against most of the cast, but he's very polarized as he has very poor tools for dealing with the best disjointed characters. Stuff like King Dedede's chainthrow that only works on some characters is the most polarizing stuff by definition. Of course sometimes polarization is inevitable, but for a balanced game, we definitely did seek to minimize it as much as possible. Sonic's weakness in raw kill power when paired with his generally decent off-stage game isn't really polarizing. It's not good, but it doesn't particularly cripple him in some match-ups while not mattering very much in others. We can and did balance Sonic around this weakness.

Now onto Sonic and his changes:

http://balancedbrawl.net/characters/sonic/

Sonic is a plainly mid tier character in standard Brawl so he was entitled to a pretty decent upgrade but not a mountain of buffs or anything really revolutionary like the real low tiers saw. My analysis of how Sonic operates is that he's extremely mobile with decent attack speed and average damage output combined with a good recovery and off-stage game in general, but he's hampered by very bad range/priority and kill power. In terms of how he plays out in standard Brawl, he needs to across the board do a bit better and specifically could really stand a more notable improvement against "team disjointed" (Meta Knight, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch)... which is a pretty common theme for a whole lot of characters. Sonic doesn't have it quite as bad as someone like Luigi since he can use his mobility to circumvent their range which is a sound idea in principle. The problem is that when it's his only option it gets limiting, and his most mobile options also tend to be some of his less rewarding ones. Enter some buffs:

My first buff for Sonic that I think makes a very big deal was a 1% damage buff to dash attack. It seems small, but this is a move Sonic can get away with doing a whole lot that isn't very rewarding on hit. Making it do more damage allows this occasional annoyance move to actually add up quite a bit more substantially. If I'm sitting there as G&W dtilting like I don't care and you sneak in a dash attack, it matters that much more. In the long run, it weakens the value of me just zoning you with dtilts all day a bit.

You will also notice the changes to up smash. What these changes mean in practice is that, when Sonic hits with up smash, it's far more likely to hit with every hit. Remembering you can up smash out of running, it's pretty important for Sonic. In standard Brawl, I was always frustrated by how this move was kinda close to being reliable but wasn't really; it's really nice for Sonic to be able to count on usmash in Bbrawl since it's such an easy option for him to go to out of what he likes doing the most.

Sonic also of course can and often does grab out of a dash, and the changes to dthrow (his best throw at lower percentages) have two practical effects. One is that it's much harder to tech, which matters a great deal against better opponents, and the other is that even if they do tech it, it's still overall more rewarding for Sonic than before thanks to the positioning.

So Sonic likes running around a lot in all match-ups and is especially counting on that mobility to fight characters who have a major strength parallel to one of Sonic's two major weaknesses (range). Buffing what he can do while at his most mobile helps Sonic all around but is especially nice in those match-ups. You can also think of the down aerial changes in this vein. Down aerial is a move that keeps Sonic moving, and improvements to it just allow him to more viably keep moving around which is building up his biggest asset as a character.

The last thing that was really key for team disjointed is that Sonic in standard Brawl just plain lacks an option to poke at them when the situation calls for it. Being mobile is great, but having at least some option to compete with them on their turf is really important and infinitely better than no option. The closest he had was ftilt, and the move's speed and hitboxes make it pretty crummy at that purpose. Testing suggested to us that his really terrible down tilt actually had the perfect speed and hitbox alignment; the only real reason Sonic couldn't use it to claim at least a little ground in those poking situations was that it was so lousy on hit. It's now pretty awesome on hit (it hits them into a really nice position always and is now one of the "randomly tripping" down tilts like Zelda's, etc, with some pretty good odds) and, even better, very likely to shift the dynamic of the match toward the faster paced and chaotic gameplay that Sonic is stronger in. Down tilt has gone from a move you almost never use to a move that you don't use all that often in general but can really come through in the specific situation that call for it.

In terms of his problems killing, we decide to mostly leave that as a weakness but did decide that allowing him somewhat better options to close a stock could be attained without sacrificing his style. Sonic uses up aerial in tricky kinda high damage situations to score kills, and the crazy stunts he is usually pulling off right before he lands that uair just scream "Sonic". If one and only one kill move is to be buffed, it's this. His other big strength in this area, his off-stage game, was really due for some fun that was also pretty useful. Enter the Spring... which has all sorts of clever application that I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding.

The only change of major substance remaining on Sonic is the nair change. Sonic's nair in standard Brawl is pretty similar to Wolf's; both are spinning moves that come out pretty fast and keep hitboxes around forever but are all around very crummy and likely unsafe on hit if you hit with the late hitboxes. This kind of quick option is something that fits into their natural playstyles well for different reasons and is definitely something both really benefit from being good. Sonic's nair in BBrawl is now a legitimately good move which is hard to call a big deal for one concrete reason but helps him in a lot of small ways. Let's call it a final "general quality" change on Sonic.

The last change we note on that change list is the change to that bit, which prevents the obscure abuse wherein Sonic could be grab released out of his up special and not regain the ability to do specials. This is a general bug that is most important for Snake but also a factor for Pit, Lucario, G&W, and Sonic that we fixed in as many cases as we could (as it turns out, we weren't able to fix it on Lucario but were on all the others). It's a nice thing not to have to worry about, and fixing as many dumb abuses as possible definitely makes the game a better experience no matter which character you are using. Speaking of abuses, I'd point out that Sonic no longer has to worry about his poor jump break, which was most notable for allowing Yoshi to do an across the stage chaingrab on him.

Your concerns about the overall cast I think you can lay to rest. Sonic sees some benefits here as a few of the best characters like Meta Knight get overall worse, and in general, we followed a trend of buffing weaker characters more than stronger characters. Ike isn't especially better than Sonic in standard Brawl, but if he really were a 4 with Sonic being a 2, we wouldn't add one step to both. We'd add more to Sonic in that case. We are also looking at depolarized, compressed tiers so the need for change relative to others isn't as important. In standard Brawl, a mid tier like Sonic is on the cusp of viability, and we can argue whether he's over it or not one way or another (IMO not, but it's close). If in Balanced Brawl even the low tiers are clearly viable, being a mid tier suddenly sounds a lot better, doesn't it? If we just changed which characters are good, we wouldn't have accomplished much; this kind of effect was always the biggest goal. It's unclear where Sonic fell relative to the rest of the cast with the only real consensus being that he's not at the very top or the very bottom in Balanced Brawl (he's not played enough to get much data beyond that), but we know the region he's in is clearly viable and safe to use so it's good news for Sonic mains whatever the relative tier list actually is.

There's also a note on stages. If the Balanced Brawl recommended stage list is used, Sonic sees a small gain on the starter stage, no real change on the opponent's counterpick, and a decent gain on his own counterpick in most match-ups. In terms of starters, he's looking at the new stage that is pretty okay for him (WiFi Waiting Room) being a starter and his old favorite counterpick, PictoChat, being a starter. Overall a lot is going on with starters so it probably isn't that big of a win for Sonic, but I feel he does just a little better here than he used to. On the opponent's counterpick, some of the new or previously region specific options are kinda lousy for Sonic, but I don't think any are worse than Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise always were for Sonic so it's not like things got any worse. On his own counterpick, Sonic is looking at the possibility of Mario Circuit and Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1, both of which are fantastic for him especially as you remember that things like DDD chainthrow that abuse walk-offs are gone but that really nice bthrow Sonic has works just as well as it always did. Most people don't think of stages too much, and you can't really worry too much about them since everyone has positives when it comes to stage selection, but it's another nice balance factor that I think is another small + for Sonic.

This was lengthy, but I had been waiting to talk about Sonic for a while. I have real confidence in Sonic in Balanced Brawl; I feel he's very faithful to how he played in standard Brawl while being clearly a much better character choice for the purpose of winning. I hope you enjoy the game, including Sonic!

---

Before, BBrawl was working fine. Now, when I load BBrawl, it just loads regular brawl, and freezes at the SSS. If i turn off my wii or try to activate the code from this "second VBrawl", my game freezes.

What should I do?
The freeze is caused by the lack of "no custom stages". If you try to play standard Brawl with the standard package Bbrawl SD card in your Wii, it freezes on the stage select screen. Obviously the .gct is not loading. The advice you've already received is mostly good advice that, if you follow, should probably fix your issues. If you have further issues, we can try to work through them.
 

Astrobot7000

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Re: Re: Sonic

Wow, thanks for the reply!
That was very specific and makes me excited to play BBrawl!
 

A2ZOMG

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Sonic honestly benefits more from other powerful characters receiving nerfs. Since for the most part he doesn't really have any matchups that are really, really, really terrible when his goal is to out-lame his opponent through superior mobility to run away, which is for the most part a legitimate strategy that works decently on everyone. The main matchups that are better for him are guys like Metaknight, G&W, Snake, Wario, Olimar, Marth.

The rest of his buffs mainly keep him in line with all the other characters who received buffs as well. So for the most part his matchups shouldn't be that much different, but that can be viewed as a good thing since he doesn't really have any stupidly terrible matchups. Most of his matchups are 55/45s in either direction or 5/5s.

I think Fox however is probably a harder matchup for him. He has a solid recovery and excellent mobility that can keep up with Sonic's (especially when you factor the Illusion Jump Cancel), he has a projectile to camp with, and he punishes mistakes much harder than Sonic. The main thing Sonic has over Fox is better throws and better pokes, but the problem for Sonic is for the most part he's going to be the one approaching in the matchup, and Fox has some options for avoiding poke wars when necessary.
 

Astrobot7000

Smash Rookie
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Jan 24, 2008
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I'm sorry, I am only a casual player.
While I understood a lot of the descriptions above, I dont know what 'poking' is and I don't know what 55/45s and 5/5s mean. Can you clarify for me? Other than that, I think I understand most of the other terms. I did a little board research to figure out what all the 'tilting' meant, but a cursory glance doesn't reveal what poking is. My apologies.

By the way, I would like to say to the creators of this hack that I am very excited to play this! After looking around, the other hacks seem to be trying to recreate Melee with the Brawl characters. Brawl is a different game, and I much prefer the mechanics and slower pace of Brawl to Melee, so dont think your hard work goes unnoticed. I, and now my friends (as I am going to tell them all about this mod,) will really enjoy the hack, I just know it!
 

Supreme Dirt

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55:45 is a matchup ratio denoting a slight advantage/disadvantage, i.e. a character has one small thing which gives the opponent a bit of trouble. 5:5 means an even matchup. Poking means breaking through a characters zoning and defense, usually used in the context of shield poking, which is hitting a character when they have their shield up.
 

A2ZOMG

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A poke is a quick attack that is safe and difficult to counter on reaction. Good pokes usually have good range, fast startup, and low ending lag. So if I were to play a poke based style, I would be trying to sit at maximum ideal range and throwing out these moves in an attempt to wear down my opponent.

Metaknights combination of solid pokes and amazing followups that could potentially kill after pokes is one important reason why he was considered the best character in vBrawl.
 

Astrobot7000

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Jan 24, 2008
Messages
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Thanks for letting me know guys.
I can't wait to try this hack! It sounds amazing.

Last question. Is there a way to play custom stages using this hack, or is that just a dream that will remain unrealized?
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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If you are a more advanced user who uses the Homebrew Channel, it can be done. The reason we can't have custom stages is the boot method; there's nothing about the game itself that is a particular problem for them. If you just play directly through smash stack and don't understand much about this stuff, I'd suggest not worrying about the custom stages though. The steps that would be required would be installing some software on your Wii and making a few edits to the files on the SD card which, depending on your literacy with this stuff, could be either pretty easy or pretty hard for you. You also may not want to permanently install software on your Wii.
 

Supreme Dirt

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Installing HBC and even BootMii as Boot2 isn't permanent, there's a guide on some site that explains how to remove it all.

That's all I can really say, iirc there's a rule we can't really speak of modding Wiis. Google is your friend.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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Permanent as in it persists after you turn your Wii off. They are removable, but they aren't things that are guaranteed to flush from the system when you power down, which is different from BBrawl's default offered boot methods.
 

A2ZOMG

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By the way I found a problem with Sheik.

Her Jab2 is growth based, and at a certain percent range, it is possible to repeatedly Jab walk some characters across the stage, and it COMBOS. In training mode I was able to do strings that did over 50 damage through repeated Jab walking towards the other side and then canceling into a different move like D-smash.

And it's particularly effective on fastfallers.

In the next BBrawl release, you should increase the SDI (and possibly the hitlag) multiplier of Sheik's Jab2. Possibly her Jab1, but I haven't done as much research on how much frame advantage she gets on that (it doesn't truly combo into anything in training mode though).

And since I have nothing better to do, I'll go over my list of potential changes that are worth considering (I don't necessarily recommend all of them being used at once without careful consideration):

Mario:
*+1 damage on Jab3, F-tilt, last hit D-air, N-air, U-tilt
*+2 damage on all F-air hitboxes, the non-spike hitboxes now being better at KOing, increased shield damage
*increased knockback on D-air loop hitboxes (combo into final hit better)
*slightly lower growth on D-throw
*slight base knockback increase on B-air, angle set to 40
*slight base knock increase on U-tilt

Luigi:
*+1 damage Jab3, F-air
*increase trip rate on D-tilt, make all hitboxes spike
*increase shield damage on cyclone

Bowser:
*increase damage and base knockback of firebreath, set angle to around 35-40
*various random things I don't need to mention have been suggested for addressing Bowser's juggle/recovery issue.

Diddy Kong:
*+1 damage Dash attack, U-smash

Wario:
*+1 damage F-air, Dash attack
*Reduce U-smash SDI factor
*increase D-smash base knockback

Link:
*+1 damage U-throw, Bombs
*D-throw angle more upwards, less growth rate, possibly interruptible sooner.
*lower angle B-throw and F-throw to around 30 degrees

Ganondorf:
*D-smash and Dash attack push blocking opponents in opposite directions they do currently
*F-throw hitbox is always safe on hit against the Ice Climbers and has lowered growth
*increase Jab hitbox duration to 7 frames, lower growth but increase base knockback and damage

Toon Link:
*slightly increase knockback- of weak hit Up-smash
*D-throw interruptible sooner
*more base knockback on F-throw and B-throw

Kirby:
*+1 damage F-tilt, angle 25 on down angled F-tilt

Pokemon Trainer:
*Make Charizard's firebreath similar to Bowser's
*Increase bkb of Razor Leaf

Lucario:
D-tilt angle set to 80, lower knockback growth, increase bkb slightly

Marth:
+1 damage to throws except D-throw, increase base and lower growth of F-throw a tiny bit

Ike:
*Bring back the D-smash buff, only make 2nd hit D-smash a vertical killer more powerful than Up-smash.
*Make N-air interrupt a bit later, make B-air interrupt slightly earlier.

Lucas:
*Set N-air final hit angle to 75 degrees, reduce growth rate
*Grab hitbox duration set to 5 frames
*Increase bkb of U-air
*increase damage first hit U-smash (it combos into the hit that kills as I recall) and greatly reduce SDI factor

Snake:
*SideB interrupt sooner, startup (before projectile fires) cancelable into all other actions.
*-1 more damage from D-throw, +1 damage to all other throws
 

MXIIA

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Sep 16, 2007
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I keep encountering an error, when I load the GeckoOS and select Launch Game, it says that there are 473 lines of code when only 423 are allowed, I did not alter the RSBE01.gct file at all, in fact, when I first encountered this error I redownloaded the BalancedBrawl2.zip and replaced that file.
 

ぱみゅ

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Mario:
*+1 damage on Jab3, F-tilt, last hit D-air, N-air, U-tilt
*+2 damage on all F-air hitboxes, the non-spike hitboxes now being better at KOing, increased shield damage
*increased knockback on D-air loop hitboxes (combo into final hit better)
*slightly lower growth on D-throw
*slight base knockback increase on B-air, angle set to 40
*slight base knock increase on U-tilt
Allowing him to combo better. Juggling is a very important part of the game, isn't it? Then, this would make him somewhat broken.

Luigi:
*+1 damage Jab3, F-air
*increase trip rate on D-tilt, make all hitboxes spike
Is that really necessary?
*increase shield damage on cyclone
Why? I don't hink Luigi needs it.

Diddy Kong:
*+1 damage Dash attack
Right, make his always handy DA>Utilt useless.
I'd suggest decrease its knowckback, so it combo better into itself. Just sayin'

Wario:
*+1 damage F-air, Dash attack
Why?
*Reduce U-smash SDI factor
I actually liked this one.

Link:
*Make Usmash reliable would come first, imo.
*+1 damage U-throw, BombsBuffing bombs is necessary? Arrows are good enough.

Toon Link:
*slightly increase knockback- of weak hit Up-smash unnecessary
*D-throw interruptible sooner unnecessary
*more base knockback on F-throw and B-throw unnecessary

Kirby:
*+1 damage F-tilt, angle 25 on down angled F-tilt
Isn't Ftilt already buffed?

Pokemon Trainer:
*Increase bkb of Razor LeafThere should be another kind and more useful good buffs for it (shield damage, maybe?)

Marth:
+1 damage to throws except D-throw, increase base and lower growth of F-throw a tiny bit
I just.... don't get this one.

Ike:
*Bring back the D-smash buff, only make 2nd hit D-smash a vertical killer more powerful than Up-smash.
Usmash is already good. make Dsmash better would look... just weird....
*Make N-air interrupt a bit later, make B-air interrupt slightly earlier.
Why?

Lucas:
*Set N-air final hit angle to 75 degrees, reduce growth rate
*Grab hitbox duration set to 5 frames
Isn't that too much of a change?
*Increase bkb of U-air
Good one.
*increase damage first hit U-smash (it combos into the hit that kills as I recall) and greatly reduce SDI factor
Again, I didn't get this one.

Snake:
*SideB interrupt sooner, startup (before projectile fires) cancelable into all other actions.
Make nikita/granade a mixup? Oh, wait, if Nikita is cancelable, then it would be better than nades, right?
*-1 more damage from D-throw, +1 damage to all other throws
This one was good as well.
That .
 

A2ZOMG

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Base knockback as I recall is more "even" than knockback growth when compared to how it affects different weight classes, which is why I suggested increasing that as opposed to knockback growth for Lucas's U-air. He mainly needs more knockback to kill heavies at respectable percents.

And let me explain my other changes. Most of the changes I'm making are meant to make most of the cast closer to top tier, comparable to where Wolf, Falco, Peach, and Pikachu are. Of course I'm not finished with figuring out what would do that appropriately.

Mario is pretty well rounded, but to get that extra edge he needs to be as good as the top, his below average damage when punishing forward is the main thing that needs to be fixed. Some of his moves are a little unsafe on hit at low percents as well, which is kinda annoying, and Marth I believe is able to Up-B Mario out of D-air.

Luigi's D-tilt buff is far from trivial. It opens up the ability to better combo into F-smash and Up-B on more characters (from Jab cancel).

As for Diddy's Dash attack damage increase, you know you could always just increase the damage and reset the knockback so that it works the same.

Wario's damage increase on Dash attack and F-air (not to mention making his DACUS more reliable) is important since his forward punish options like Mario's are generally weak. There are a number of characters that easily wall him as a result, so I believe it's fair that he gets a little more reward for poking his way in. Buffing his D-smash is something to consider in the Falco matchup, a character who gives Wario a lot of trouble and has a broken spotdodge.

Link's buffs are mainly meant to increase the effectiveness of his throw game, which is the main reason why he isn't a top tier character. Same goes for Toon Link. In Toon Link's case, his other main shortcomings are either slightly low damage per hit or iffy KO setups.

I don't recall Kirby getting a buff on F-tilt. His Jab combo is better, but not his F-tilt.

Marth's changes are meant to make his throw game less polarizing against space animals (chaingrab into spike), yet generally speaking more reliable for sources of damage.

Ike can Jab cancel into D-smash against a few characters, and it actually helps balance matchups where it works (he still has a lot of trouble against Olimar, and Mario has the advantage against him). Ike's N-air is a little silly since you can buffer a F-air after a fullhop U-air. However Ike really should be allowed to do two B-airs in a fullhop. The change also helps Ike's ability to edgeguard.

Lucas suffers from not being able to heavily punish escaping opponents, which is why increased grab duration is important to catch landing opponents and people who roll away. The U-smash buff helps Lucas's edgetrapping game (very useful against characters like Donkey Kong and Snake) and also makes his techchase game more rewarding.
 
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