Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[Mit]

Sonic drops the spring where if Falcon doesn't dive, he can't make it back, he loses a stock. Sonic's d throw makes these positions possible. You slide pretty far at high damage.

You could just edgehog if that was the case :\ If he's got room to still recover onto stage even if edgehogged, he's got time to pull out an uair, or read the spring's placement and use some of the crazy, wonky maneuvering of Falcon Dive to get around it.

I don't know, I play a spring-happy Sonic a lot and don't seem to have too much trouble, unless yes, I have to use up+b to make it to the ledge, and don't even have enough distance to recover onstage.

 

[A2ZOMG]

i disagree. snake is more mobile than ivysaur, dedede, olimar and perhaps even characters like kirby and ice climbers on the virtue of his DACUS alone.

All three bearers of the Triforce have worse mobility than Snake honestly. One thing Snake also gets to do to increase his mobility options is use his Up-B as a getaway option, and it's unfairly hard for most characters to punish if he does b-reversals correctly.

Also, while Snake's DACUS isn't spammable, it's stupidly good because of how safe it is on block, and just because of how stupid Snake's Up-smash is in general...since he gets to do moves while the rocket is out.

 

[NovaRyumaru]

Changing Yoshi's shield in a positive way would cause the campiest character in the game to become significantly more campy. It seems like a bad idea.

Play Snake then tell me that he doesn't have an overpowered defensive game in comparison.

You really don't seem to know Yoshi that well because he's not that great at playing campy either, he's more the kind of character you play picturing a bubble around, if someone steps past that bubble you use that excellent mobility to mindgame and bait 'n punish, similar to how Wario plays. However, unlike Wario he doesn't have the option of shielding really because you can't punish well after doing so.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

You guys are mistaking being bad with being not an incredible camper. If Yoshi were actually good in vBrawl, how can you not see him as one of the most campy characters? I guess you could make the argument that he's only campy because he is limited as a low tier, but it's more compelling to say his ability to camp is actually compromised by being bad.

Either way, I still think Olimar is more campy heh.

Just assume he said one of the most campiest. There really is no point getting roadblocked in discussion just because of one little thing AA mentioned that isnt really a huge part of his post that could also very well be a typo (not saying it is, however).

That being said, I want to reemphasize the bit about Snake. Changing his weight really does go against the project's goal. It won't be even considered guys, try your luck elsewhere. Changing his physics makes him a whole different beast, and there really is NO reason why making a drastic change like this is warranted. Whoever thought this project would even think about that kind of change really needs to read the mission statement in the first post.

Lets discuss something else; someone on the last page mentioned Kirby so I may as well chime in that as well. Kirby is overall really well rounded in both games. In vBrawl he's a good character. Not great, just good. In BBrawl, he got a bit better mechanically, so one would assume he's now hit that "great" zone. Not really the case. Pretty much half the cast got a bigish overhaul while the other half stayed about the same, maybe slightly better in all (the small buffs outweighing small nerfs as a group). Kirby suffered some mainly because of his relative ability, the way I see it.

He's probably at a point where AA and Thinkman don't *need* to do anything with, but I think several simple things can be done making him just that much better without being really significant buffs. These simple things are really all the small changes to his individual B powers. As a character, he's solid all around, so buffing his "signature move" to a point where it's actually maybe rewarding to swallow the character opposed to spitting them out or even avoiding pressing B at all wouldnt be a bad idea. They already did do some really nice changes, but I can see more being done.

 

[JOE!]

yes, it is a drastic change (kinda), but did you read the discussions about why his weight is rediculous?

he has the characteristics of someone whos in the wight class of like, Falcon. The recovery of like Mario, and a safety net only DK and Bowser posess on top of it in the form of his weight.

The weight alone scews MUs more in his favor than necesary...


as for yoshi, there is no way he is the campiest. If you assume that tossing a few eggs here and there = ZOMG CAMPY CHARACTER, then o_O.

Yoshi should be mid-tier in vBrawl honestly, he does too well against the top tiers, and has ok matches overall with only marth and GW giving him significant trouble. He's only placed low-tier because nobody uses him and he's weird to play as. Giving him AN OPTION out of shiled wouldnt be game-breaking IMO, especially since he lost the CGs and the Fair ground setup is horribly predictable/hard to do.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Yoshi the campiest O_o...Falco, Olimar, Snake, Toon Link would all like to have a few words with AA.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I know Yoshi pretty well actually. I've run into him in tournament far more than one would expect, and he is definitely the single campiest character in the game. Olimar is probably #2, but I think Yoshi edges him out. Yoshi spams eggs and pivot grabs, and if you get in his face where that's not going to be an option, he abuses his ridiculous jab to just run away. That's how every good Yoshi I've ever fought has played, and it works. His other moves are things he mixes in when the opponent makes a mistake in navigating around his core three camp moves (Egg Toss, pivot grab, jab). Like, if the opponent jumps in past an egg and lands in certain positions, dash attack is good. Running up smash sometimes even works like that. Just doing a jumping Egg Lay can be great disruption too, and your tilts can provide assorted small levels of trickery. In Bbrawl, dsmash actually is a really nice thing to consider more often even. However, those are the "extras" on your game. The core is extremely hardcore camping with Egg Toss, pivot grab, and jab. Yoshi pretty much doesn't shield; he just keeps you away so effectively that he barely needs it. Yoshi's aerial acceleration isn't really very good (even though his top speed is so high), and quite a few characters easily outrange/prioritize or even just outspeed his aerials so I don't think playing similarly to Wario is a good idea for him at all.

The comment about Snake isn't even reasonable. In standard Brawl, Snake is obviously a much better character than Yoshi, but he doesn't camp nearly as much. In quite a few matchups, Snake does things like walk up ftilt or walk up utilt. Snake is good primarily because of just how much raw power he has on stuff. He can use some other good stuff he has to have a pretty good defensive game, but it's not like all Snake has going for him is defensive play. Yoshi, on the other hand, is a character for which I have never seen any evidence of a reward for players doing anything other than the most extreme forms of camping. However good or bad Yoshi might be doesn't really change that reality. Yoshi's optimum playstyle is a more defensive playstyle than the optimum playstyle for any other character.

Now imagine Yoshi with a normal shield. He still does this actually very difficult to get around camping game. Once you get in and have your hitboxes out, he can just throw up his shield now. Remember Yoshi has a 22 frame spotdodge so he instantly has one great OoS option (his silly shield dropping animation makes his spotdodge seem artificially worse than it actually is). The campiest character in the game gets even campier, becomes unbearably tedious to fight for large portions of the cast, and probably becomes borderline impossible to fight with anyone slow. In terms of polarization, he'd be very similar to Olimar at that point except probably even more polarizing.

This probably sounds like a very mean analysis of your character, but I'm just being honest about it. I'm not passing judgments on the Yoshis of the world for picking such a campy character or anything, and if you are using him, I just expect you to play to win and camp your heart out. I mean, I can see in Yoshi vs G&W you have two options. You can use eggs to counter my aerial approaches and space pivot grabs and do all that to keep me out, or you can let me in and get wrecked by my turtle beating out your entire moveset and my kill moves being way more powerful than yours and all that. There are no hard feelings about Yoshi choosing what wins here. It's just that it's important to be honest about what wins with Yoshi, and if we're looking at changes to him, giving him extremely higher incentives to camp is just obviously a really bad idea.

 

[JOE!]

do you only figth yoshis with GW, one of their worst MU's? (next to marf)

of course they'll play campy, GW beats him everywhere else.

 

[AMKalmar]

Do you guys change the hitbox sizes at all or just their effect?

 

[BSP]

No changes to hitbox size, in OP.

But MK's ftilt really feels shorter for some reason.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Only Hitbox size change was on Samus' pummel, in order it can hit Bowser....

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Hey I made this thread on AiB why Lucas is a bad character in vBrawl, it has some things in there about why Lucas is fundamentally bad. http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=127918

 

[Vinnie]

You guys are mistaking being bad with being not an incredible camper. If Yoshi were actually good in vBrawl, how can you not see him as one of the most campy characters? I guess you could make the argument that he's only campy because he is limited as a low tier, but it's more compelling to say his ability to camp is actually compromised by being bad.

Either way, I still think Olimar is more campy heh.

Just assume he said one of the most campiest. There really is no point getting roadblocked in discussion just because of one little thing AA mentioned that isnt really a huge part of his post that could also very well be a typo (not saying it is, however).

That being said, I want to reemphasize the bit about Snake. Changing his weight really does go against the project's goal. It won't be even considered guys, try your luck elsewhere. Changing his physics makes him a whole different beast, and there really is NO reason why making a drastic change like this is warranted. Whoever thought this project would even think about that kind of change really needs to read the mission statement in the first post.

Lets discuss something else; someone on the last page mentioned Kirby so I may as well chime in that as well. Kirby is overall really well rounded in both games. In vBrawl he's a good character. Not great, just good. In BBrawl, he got a bit better mechanically, so one would assume he's now hit that "great" zone. Not really the case. Pretty much half the cast got a bigish overhaul while the other half stayed about the same, maybe slightly better in all (the small buffs outweighing small nerfs as a group). Kirby suffered some mainly because of his relative ability, the way I see it.

He's probably at a point where AA and Thinkman don't *need* to do anything with, but I think several simple things can be done making him just that much better without being really significant buffs. These simple things are really all the small changes to his individual B powers. As a character, he's solid all around, so buffing his "signature move" to a point where it's actually maybe rewarding to swallow the character opposed to spitting them out or even avoiding pressing B at all wouldnt be a bad idea. They already did do some really nice changes, but I can see more being done.

How do I shot web?

 

[BSP]

Hey I made this thread on AiB why Lucas is a bad character in vBrawl, it has some things in there about why Lucas is fundamentally bad. http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=127918

And that didn't even mention grab release shenanigans.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yes, I know it didn't b/c Grab Release isn't the only reason why Lucas is a bad character. You can't just get rid of Grab Release and expect Lucas to automatically be good. Also, many of those things still apply to BBrawl.

 

[BSP]

That could be said about a lot of the low tiers actually.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yes and those Low-Tier characters need help if it can still be said about BBrawl, much like how Ganon loses badly to side-stepping.

 

[Steeler]

reading that post, i started laughing at how much of that applies to ivysaur. similar uairs for baiting purposes, similar nairs and lack of approach options, similar projectile 'camping', a lack of kill set-ups...in everything i just mentioned, the lucas version is still slightly better though. x)

at least lucas has a recovery.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yeah, Ivy needs help too. IMO X)

 

[Kalm]

I am extremely excited at the progress and potential of this project and have been avidly discussing it between a lot of my peers in AL.
That being said, I haven't been able to try it yet, I've been having problems getting it to work on my Wii.

A thousand pardons if I'm interrupting or misplacing this post, but if I could get a small Q&A to get it straightened out?
I'm not going to risk derailing a topic so I won't state my case unless asked, if not I would greatly appreciate a quick IM with someone knowledgeable.

Happy Cranberries.


I got my help, thank ye R.PSIence.
Feel free to talk about how awesome I am for no reason anyways though, I know its tempting.

 

[xatm092]

Yeah, Ivy needs help too. IMO X)

Of course Ivy needs help, but I deal with this by switching out for Charizard when I get past 60 - 70%.

 

[PKNintendo]

You guys need to see this ASAP.

Why Lucas sucks in Brawl:

Aerial Baiting

Lucas is probably one of the worst characters at baiting and punishing air dodges. First let’s take a look at the aerial used to juggle, u-air:
Up-air comes out from 4 whereas an airdodge will come out frame 3. An airdodge will end frame 42 and up-air will end frame 40. This is horrible for baiting an airdodge, because the air dodge will come out the same time the up-air does nearly every time.
This wouldn’t be as nearly as bad, but Lucas has one of the worse offensive double jumps in the game. If Lucas were to double jump to an aerial, he really only has one shot against a falling opponent and when you take in consideration Lucas’ aerials with either small range or no juggling capabilities, he has almost no aerial baiting capability.

Approaching

Lucas lacks any form of good approach which isn’t beaten by shield or roll dodge.
Lucas’ forms of approaching mostly come in the form of SH N-air and FH D-air. Some people will say that Lucas has amazing shield pressure. However if you look at his shield pressure move (n-air) you find that you put yourself in a bad situation. Lets say you n-air someone’s shield. Afterwards what are you going to do, jab? A jab can be shield grab between the first and second hit and most likely will. They can also roll away and not get jabbed. You could try to n-air twice but you’ll end up shield grabbed and if you try other moves a simple roll or shield grab is also in order.
If you do a FH D-air the opponent can pivot grab your landing or roll away.
Now you could try to space an f-air however it’s easily shield-grabbed or if you space it where it doesn’t get shield grabbed, it ends up not hitting in the first place.
Lucas dash-attack is also a pathetic move when you think about it as an approach. It’s a move that can be shielded on reaction and shield-grabbed and has low risk-reward ratio for its effectiveness.

Camping

For a character with three projectiles, Lucas’ camping game is really flawed. Two of his projectiles are useless onstage and do little to help him camp. With this we are assuming he is camping with PK Fire. When Lucas’ PK Fires it comes out in about twenty frames, enough that the opponent can easily PS the PK Fire. But if you’re doing it correctly you’re most likely Wavebouncing or at least Short Hopping the PK Fire. However, when you Wavebounce or Short Hop the extra boost pushes you back against the ledge and at that point you’re at a position you don’t want to be, at the edge. So now if you PK Fire you’re going to get punished and you can’t try to grab their approach and you’re stuck there. That’s not a good camp game. This is even worse for stages that have little room, and have slanted ground as they will mess up Lucas’ PK Fire. Not to mention if you do happen to land PK Fire it’s only going to end up giving the opponent eight damage, although PK Fire is extremely easy to Powershield.
The bad part about Lucas’ camping is that more than half the cast can force Lucas to approach.


Killing

So let’s assume that Lucas was able to rack up a lot of damage on the opponent, now the Lucas is going to have to go for the kill. Lucas has some very strong kill moves, but they are near impossible to land against a smart opponent. Lucas will mainly be relying on f-smash to get a kill. Now assuming that he’s going to f-smash the opponent knows to space themselves against f-smash. Now how is Lucas going to get the kill?
Another problem with f-smash is the fact that it is unsafe on shield. In the lag Lucas is going to be open to some type of punishment and there is nothing he can do. The shield pushback on Lucas’ F-smash is low enough for him to easily get punished. This would certainly be decent, if not for the fact that Lucas has to rely on only F-smash to get the kill.
Lucas’ other smashes are very pathetic too. Lucas d-smash comes out in twenty frames and is unsafe on shield.
You could say that his D-smash is good at punishing side-steps, however the hits get weaker and the last one only does ten damage and doesn’t kill very well until much higher and uncomfortable percents.
Lucas’ up-smash has two very significant problems that make them unviable. First of all is that the move is very slow and easy to shield and punish. The more important one though is that it is multi-hit and is easy to SDI out of, especially at higher percents where it has more knockback growth on the first hit.

Now Lucas could have some good killing power if his moves had setup’s. However Lucas can leave no kind of DI trap or airdodge baiting into a kill move.

Recovery

Lucas can have a pretty amazing recovery as long as no one get’s in Lucas’ way. However this is highly unlikely. First of all let’s look at the logic behind PKT2. First of all you’re standing there in mid-air for 1.5 seconds DI’ing down and away from the stage. Windboxes and reflectors will easily gimp a Lucas during this part. But once Lucas goes into PKT2 he doesn’t quite have a free ride back to the stage. Some characters can just reverse his momentum and there’s nothing he can do about it. However, most characters will be trying to edgehog him and punish his landing onstage with a strong attack to knock him back off.
Of course there are other methods of recovering with Lucas. There’s Magnet Pull.
However Magnet pull has lots of ending lag where the opponent can double jump and put you back off stage where you’re in the same position except likely that you don’t have your double jump. Zap Jump is another method of recovering with Lucas, but if you mess up and miss that small frame window, you end up in a bad position to recover especially if you tried to Wavezap.
Now let’s look at Lucas’ anti-edgegaurd options
PK Fire is one of his few options; however it usually will push away from the stage and put you a bad situation for Lucas.

Rock-Paper-Scissors

Quote from Galeon:
Another Lucas issue is that his rock-paper-scissors is more dangerous/ineffective than alot of others chars in the game since he lacks a fast grab. It's really easy to shieldwhore Lucas. Him trying to mix in grabs gives other chars options they shouldn't have. Whiffing grabs and getting Ike fsmashed on reaction isn't fun. When most other chars mix up, they don't have to accept these types of punishments. There's not even much incentive to play the poking game all day since Lucas doesn't even do that much damage. Even his heaviest damage setups like dair become really low damage when the opponent sdi's up.

Roll-Aways

If Lucas is pressuring someone's sheild and they roll away Lucas has almost no response to this and the opponet now has no sheild pressure.

Counterpicking

Lucas is easily counterpicked by many characters. He has a lot of match-up’s he shouldn’t be winning even if the Lucas boards are to prideful to admit that their character MU’s are that bad. I’m not going in depth here.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

>_>

My main worry is actually Roll-aways, lol. It's just that nearly every section covered that.

 

[Steeler]

that's the thing about most of the low or bottom tier characters. with the exceptions of samus and mario, have some major issues that you can't cover up just by altering the knockback on some attacks.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yep. There's going to need to be some changes to low-tiers to make them better in the next version.

But really the roll back thing gets to me, take for example from our MU discussion with Sheik:

Uhm. what Lucas is gonna do is either SH nair > X or FH dair > SH nair > X

X = jabx3 or ftilt

Erm.. I will roll back right after you finish X. Balls back in your court dude, what you gonna do now?

So why should Lucas have to lose so hard to rolling back?

 

[Mit]

So why should Lucas have to lose so hard to rolling back?

Ehm, pressure them to the edge of the stage? You can't roll back forever. I feel like you can avoid tons of characters approaches by just rolling back.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Umm... not really, because they can just put themselves back in a neutral position after rolling b/c Lucas can't do anything about it.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I think you're overstating some things and trying to do things that really don't make sense with the character (like intense air to air stuff when by design that's Lucas's weakest quadrant of combat). Also, Pk Fire works great against roll-happy people. If you predict a roll back and Pk Fire, most characters just don't go far enough with a roll to get away from it (and guys like Lucario who have really far rolls will still probably be hit by walk forward a little -> Pk Fire). You could also just dash grab; rolling isn't exactly very quick with most of the cast...

The silliest point I thought was about SDIing out of usmashes. Yes, it's possible, but I can't say I've ever seen anyone do it in a real match. I doubt it happens very often at all; that is a very hard move to SDI out of. Is there any good evidence of people actually SDI this consistently or even often?

Also, in Brawl, it's not like the low tiers are really that horrible in the first place or that Mario and Samus were somehow mystically above other low tier characters (they were worse than Lucas in the first place...). We can argue about how the balance pans out in Bbrawl (I continue to assert that some of these characters aren't getting enough attention and aren't really being played right a lot of the time they are used), but I definitely strongly deny that there's some sort of deep fundamental problem with most of the low tier characters in the first place. A few had issues that required special attention to fix, but in general these are seriously not that bad of characters or even that poorly designed of ones. The low tiers are functional and just underbalanced in standard Brawl, and in Bbrawl whoever the real low tiers are should follow that model even more closely.

 

[Steeler]

So why should Lucas have to lose so hard to rolling back?

because your grab sucks, thus limiting your mixup options

actually it could still be used after nair imo but it's definitely limited by how slow it is

AA what do you mean by being underbalanced? just lacking more KO options than the other characters?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Oh and BTW, that was vBrawl Lucas. I fail at trolling so hard, lol. I just didn't feel like putting in grab release.

About u-smash, I do, I SDI it. In fact, I intentionally jump into Lucas' up-smash during dittos and SDI out and punish and show them how BS Lucas' up-smash really is. You don't see most people SDI out of it, b/c they don't actually know they can.

Also what's the worst that can happen if you make Lucas' up-smash harder to DI? Wasn't one of the goals is to make moves viable?

Edit: At roll-aways, it's meant for when the opponet escapes situations like when you're N-air their sheild.

Also, what makes Lucas Diddy level in BBrawl?

 

[6Mizu]

rPSI's right.....Lucas's U-Smash need that buff. (I mean harder to SDI), also....
I know rPSI agrees soooooo
D-smash needs to kill a little earlier.

Edit: Oh, AA....about doing it in a real match....I've done it to rPSI.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Well not the first hit, lol. It's actually the second two hits that are terrible. The first hit is pure s*x.

 

[6Mizu]

Well not the first hit, lol. It's actually the second two hits that are terrible. The first hit is pure s*x.

yea, of course. lulz
Also, other character have more killing options.....Lucas should as well.
-Usmash harder to SDI
-Dsmash kills a little earlier.
and I think Lucas need one more decent kill option.....so i'll let rPSI decide.
- (rPSI's decision here).

 

[rPSIvysaur]

-_-#

We've already talked about this pages ago. . .
Me and A2Zomg already stated the possibility of a n-air buff to set up into u-air.

 

[Steeler]

i like nair into uair but i don't like the idea of buffing smash attacks for lucas

 

[A2ZOMG]

Also, in Brawl, it's not like the low tiers are really that horrible in the first place or that Mario and Samus were somehow mystically above other low tier characters (they were worse than Lucas in the first place...).

All three mentioned characters as far as I'm concerned are not low tier in standard Brawl, but Mario and Samus are better than Lucas in vBrawl. They simply have more reliable tools and better ways of doing massive damage and scoring a safe KO that can beat reaction time.

Mario is poorly represented in general due to his high technical demand, but he has superior zoning by virtue of nearly lagless aerials and a Cape for stalling momentum and avoiding shieldgrabs. His Jab cancel also is clearly leagues better than most, and so is his out of shield game, which consists of many fast options. Mario also has some very unpredictable and powerful punish options such as his F-smash's ridiculous range, and his Sliding Up-smash which covers half of BF in an instant and kills Bowser at like 125% in standard Brawl (since he gets to charge Up-smash while sliding). His camping is also the safest camping in all of low tiers (besides Samus's).

Samus wins camping in low tiers period. She does it safer and more reliably than anyone else, and her Z-air is a godly poke option in conjunction with her camping. Aside from the multitude of reliable combos she has, her F-air sets up into D-tilt, her Charge Shot and other tools are amazing for edgeguards, and she's virtually impossible to gimp and is very heavy. Approaching her is generally very difficult due to her above average out of shield game which consists of several fast options that compensate for her underwhelming shieldgrab. She may seem weak from below, but actually capitalizing on that is not straightforward at all if she stalls momentum with bombs, which are very annoying to deal with when pressuring her. Her D-air also, while it comes out slowly, it has what seems to be uber priority, and it's reeeealy safe on block.

In BBrawl, I've stated Mario and Samus are top5, and I really really should emphasize how good these characters are at scoring the kill.

So...in regular Brawl, Mario's Sliding Up-smash travels about half of BF, and kills Bowser at 125% (which is already frankly impressive). In BBrawl, it's blatantly killing heavyweights at 105%, and killing a midweight like Mario at about 86%, which honestly is comparable to something like G&W's Up-smash, except Mario's Up-smash covers more distance at a fairly slight expense for frame advantage on block. The only reason you don't see this often is partly because I only recently made it public knowledge, and because it's moderately more difficult to pull off than a DACUS (since it's a timing based input that can't be buffered or mashed). Oh yeah and living past 130% against Mario doesn't work generally once you realize his D-smash and B-throw kill before that and he can Jab cancel into those. 130% is assuming the character in question is a heavyweight. If you're like Marth for instance, that Up-smash or D-smash will finish you off at more like 105-110%.

Samus really really doesn't have problems killing at all. Her D-tilt is totally not hard to land, especially since she can combo into it with F-air, and possibly trap people into it with Bombs, and then there is just hitting people with it out of the blue because it's a frame 6 move with great range. Kills Mario at 114%, which is more powerful than vBrawl Mario's U-smash or Snake's nerfed U-tilt. Buffed charge shot finishes most characters from 90-100% pretty reliably as long as we continue edgeguarding with it effectively, F-smash down-angled kills at around 100% on most characters (well, still a hard move to land), and increased damage output in general makes an already good character massively formidable. Oh yeah and her F-throw and B-throw kill at high percents.

 

[Steeler]

a2 when you refer to mario's sliding usmash...is that just a jump cancelled pivot?

also samus' dtilt needs to be nerfed back to vbrawl power.

 

[Linkshot]

Mario gets a burst of acceleration on one of the frames in his run animation.

Abusing this gives him a really amazing sliding uSmash.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

i like nair into uair but i don't like the idea of buffing smash attacks for lucas

Making Lucas U-smash Less DI'able won't really be a buff unless you already DI it out which makes it a s***y move. You have no idea how it feels when you legitly land Lucas' U-smash then your opponet DI's out of it and punishes you for landing the move.

Lucas' D-smash other hits sucks:
Look at 3:04 in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChiboSempai#p/u/50/4M9gkBb4kX0

 

[Steeler]

is this exclusive to mario? sounds like a really weird thing for one character to have during one frame of their run...lol.