Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[Stealth Raptor]

once some tourneys are run with it and people start seeing the results, i think this could spread fairly rapidly

 

[Pierce7d]

I still have the issue of my game freezing when I go to stage builder. How do I load it without HBC?

 

[glasscitysd]

Can some one please help?

is there anyway to play balanced brawl with a backed up brawl through neogamma? i know to use ocarina cheats/the GCT file with neogamma u make a folder in the root of the SD named neogamma and put the codes folder there. can anyone help me out all i get is a green screen and freeze when i try to load from backup launcher

 

[Leon89]

I still have the issue of my game freezing when I go to stage builder. How do I load it without HBC?

first is you have to have all of your files in the right places.

next make sure you are running the US version of the game, not PAL.

third you need to delete all of your stage builder maps BEFORE you put the SD card in, after deleting them all. go back to the main menu put SD card in then go back to the stage builder menu, not the select screen for when you are starting up a match.

when you enter the Stage builder menu, you should almost immediately get a black DOS like screen, wait until a new menu pops up that should give you the option to activate the mod, and then it should take you back to the game

 

[JOE!]

something silly i just noticed:

there are quite a few DK mains here...

 

[Pierce7d]

third you need to delete all of your stage builder maps BEFORE you put the SD card in

I see. So I'll move them to my other SD card

EDIT: When I find it . I saw it yesterday I think . . .

 

[daisho]

something silly i just noticed:

there are quite a few DK mains here...

Just three I think (Me, Big O, AK) but yeah... we hate that DDD infinite... IDC where DK is on the new tierlist or w/e but DK is definitely much more viable now

 

[NO-IDea]

If I were to point out potential top tiers, or at least the top 6, it'd be among:

MK, Wario, Mario, Samus, Marth, Diddy

I would remove Snake because a lot of the low tiers can now handle him, not to mention the character MUs in the upper tiers haven't changed too much (excluding Falco and D3 because of their CGs. Diddy is still solid despite the trip nerf.) Simply because of the expected higher variety in balanced brawl, Snake should go down to high-mid tier.

D3 has his major weapon nerfed, but I can see him remaining top tier as well. Same with Falco: in return for losing his CG, he has other options and his laser camping is still too good. But again, I'm not sure how D3 and Falco's MUs would change now that Mario and Samus have been severely buffed and other characters have received decent options to change their own MUs against D3/Falco. The changes in their overall match-ups will make them drop in the tier list.

Surprise underdogs would have to go Zelda/Sheik duo, PT and Ness/Lucas. Plenty of people will main them, and a few will actually be able to bring out their full potential.

I'll have to disagree with the arguments against Ness/Lucas. First of all, they shouldn't be associated together considering their gameplay is completely different. Ness has one extremely safe approach and that bread and butter move is most of what he needs. Essentially, his aerials and throws will carry him. Lucas in general is very good. His major problem was the grab releases. Otherwise, he has one of the game's strongest ground games, his SH aerials and jab/d-tilt/f-smash too good.

I would say to challenge some Lucas/Ness mains to see for yourself. There aren't too many of them, which is the major problem.

All the other characters have high competitive viability, but once you learn their match-ups (Peach/Luigi/Ike/Sonic/DK for example) they become a tad easier to deal with. It's hard to list ICs in the tier list, because if the player is good... infinites win. Although the 6 I listed still have tools to avoid ICs getting the grab. As far as G&W, I think he'll hold his place in the current tier list. Or like, 7th place.

The difference between these characters and the 6 I listed is because, no matter how much you are experienced in the match-up:
1) MK is still very hard to punish (his moveset spells top tier, he just may not be the top now)
2) Wario's air camping game is extremely hard to hit,
3) Mario was always decent but wasn't played because of D3s and low killing power combined with his mediocre recovery. (The top tiers were MK and Wario, putting down Mario because of MK and Wario's great aerial mobility off stage hindering him) I could definitely see Boss's Mario own MKs with the new buffs (he does a godly job doing it already)
4) Samus's camping game (z-air in general) and her great moveset makes damage racking easy. It was killing that was the issue. Now that she has less issues (and D3's guaranteed CG gone,) if she gets the percentage/stock lead, she now has a better chance of keeping it
5) Marth's range, KO power and approaches make the match-up hard for everyone
6) Diddy is still annoyingly solid with his bananas. No locks, just simple follow-ups instead continue to make this match-up hard.

Speed, safe (or moderately safe) ways of racking up damage, and KO power (either from simple kills or gimping) are what makes top tier... top tier!

Anyway, those are my predictions. Care to disagree, who cares! We'll find out when tournament results are collected! XD

 

[A2ZOMG]

something silly i just noticed:

there are quite a few DK mains here...

There's at least as many G&W mains here.

AA, Esc, myself (technically I go Mario/G&W).

Just sayin'.


NO-IDEA, you think a lot like me, except I think Snake is better than MK in BBrawl.

I could go through the argument again that the real problem with Ness and Lucas was unimpressive range/safety, but seriously, I won't. It's up for you to find out on your own. Lucas has it better with his superior spotdodge allowing him to set up stuff more easily though.

Diddy can't be up there because he can no longer Banana pressure people to the edge reliably for the same massive damage or KO potential. G&W is a better character in general, with consistently more powerful moves that are also quite safe in general. His worst matchup was MK, which is much more manageable due to how much MK's KO power was toned down. Other bad matchups, like Diddy himself, and Snake are significantly better for G&W too, and iffy matchups like Falco and Wario are now hands down in G&W's favor.

 

[JOE!]

hmn, what about G&W's low tier good MU's?

I can see Yoshi going even at least with him now due to better KO power, and the ability to out-momentum cancel him

 

[NO-IDea]

As far as the Snake v MK tier listings in BBrawl, I just think MK still has better overall MUs than Snake. Half the roster can take Snake on so I'd be surprised if Snake was still able to hold his own in a balanced brawl tournament with so many characters now coming into competitive play.

MK, on the other hand, while not being to KO as fast as before (with d-smash/up+b being nerfed and all,) still has a great moveset to rack damage and gimping ability. People underestimate the power of pressuring off stage. While you may not always get gimped, the times you will or the times you take damage while avoiding the gimp matter.

Diddy, while no longer able to essentially carry people to the edge and throw them off (not literally throw, although he was able to do that too), can still rack up damage nicely. Although his KO potential has significantly decreased (it doesn't mean its low, it just means he won't be getting kills by hitting his opponents from the edge of the stage,) his bananas are still an extremely effective form of pressure. And while Diddy may not be able to kill as early as before, he can still avoid getting hit. He can safely rack up damage, in other words, until they're high enough to get killed. Diddys will have to be more patient is all.

I'm glad you agree with me on Falco/D3 dropping in the standings (or at least I think you do.) Yes, G&W has great match-ups against Falco and Wario, but his match-up against Diddy and MK are still bad IMO. MK still has solid counters against G&W's approaches, and Diddy... well I outlined why Diddy is good a second ago. Yes, the Snake match-up has been alleviated for G&W, but the Snake match-up has been alleviated for a lot of characters in general, further reasoning as to why I think Snake is going to experience quite a fall.

I won't bother with the Lucas/Ness argument. It's been discussed already. I have played Lucas mains though and they're phenomenally good. Ness just requires more experience to be good with IMO.

The rest I wouldn't mind arguing with you though. You seem competent to bring up good points, which although may not change my mind, definitely make me reconsider and acknowledge such statements.

EDIT: @JOE!

I have considered Yoshi's placings, and would problem group him with the other high-mid tiers (Peach/Luigi/Ike/DK/Lucario, etc.) The reason being is that his survivability has drastically increased, but Yoshi still gets predictable after a while. Whether you are the retreating pivot grabbing yoshi or the aggressive, b-air-->tilts yoshi or simply the egg spamming yoshi... in a set, I could see Yoshi winning the first match and then losing the second barely, the third decidedly. You would have to consistently change it up (even within the individual matches) because playing any of those styles alone won't lead to victory since they're all rather easy to predict and punish alone.

Unless it was already a good MU for Yoshi to begin with of course =P.

 

[JOE!]

wait, bowser shoudl beat MK now....

bowser's defensive style and weight led to it being 55/45 MK in vBrawl.

Granted, he no longer can infinite grab release MK, but the only time MK gave him any *real* trouble was when they played frantically, spamming Dsmash, Shuttle loop and Whorenado...

now that those are much less effective, bowser should be able to just out tank the bat

 

[Pierce7d]

Granted, he no longer can infinite grab release MK, but the only time MK gave him any *real* trouble was when they played frantically, spamming Dsmash, Shuttle loop and Whorenado...

This is so false, although it's correct that Bowser should have an easier time dealing with MK now.

Oh right, the reason I came into this thread is because though I hate WiFi, I support this project, and hence am willing to playtest a little on WiFi. Anyone willing please let me know, but please be competent.

 

[JOE!]

it's false that bowser had a MU with mk that was 45/55?

 

[NO-IDea]

Yes, Bowser should have an easier time. It doesn't necessarily mean it's in his favor however.

The same could be said in Bowser's other MUs against vBrawl high tiers. It has become easier, but it's not as if Bowser now has a significant advantage to tip the scales.

EDIT: And I'm sure it's false. I thought of it more 65-35 or 60-40 if MK has no experience. Not 55-45.

 

[Pierce7d]

it's false that bowser had a MU with mk that was 45/55?

That depends entirely on who you ask, as there are hardly enough Bowsers to get a proper analysis of the MU. However, you'll note that I quoted a very specific part of the post that does not include stating that your ratio is false. I have no desire to argue about arbitrary, unimportant vBrawl MUs in THIS thread.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Bowser vs. MK was really close to even if not so. Bowser could cover most of MK's options, outlive him, and in a few instances outrange him (lolftilt). CG is useful but restricted to stages.

Disregarding vBrawl, Bowser's new dair is lol.

I kinda like not being restricted to GR now.

 

[daisho]

Disregarding vBrawl, Bowser's new dair is lol.

That attack is awesome... people will now be scared of bowser landing on them... how much can it do in total, 40?

 

[Liquid Gen]

42%, if all hits connect (which is pretty difficult of shorter people). It is amazing in all sense of the word; a mix up from koopahopping, especially. Koopahop a lot around them, weaving in and out, then just landing on them with a 20-40 percent dair. Best part is, if it connects, the improved KB on it prevents punishment.

Also, Bowser nair is even more sexy on BF with the big damage buff.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I still think TL needs a little push to "get there". Hes always overlooked :/. Seriously.

 

[dansal]

What problems does toon link still have?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'll have to disagree with the arguments against Ness/Lucas. First of all, they shouldn't be associated together considering their gameplay is completely different.

Thank you for putting that out there. I hate people associating Lucas w/ Ness. I can't even play Ness worth crap and his recovery is so foreign to me.

 

[blakinola]

I still think TL needs a little push to "get there". Hes always overlooked :/. Seriously.

The can of spam wants to have a word with you.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

This is so false, although it's correct that Bowser should have an easier time dealing with MK now.

Oh right, the reason I came into this thread is because though I hate WiFi, I support this project, and hence am willing to playtest a little on WiFi. Anyone willing please let me know, but please be competent.

now that i have my sd card back i can play you now im open tomorrow all night if you are down for some wifi

 

[Liquid Gen]

Is there an IRC for BB Wifi matches? I could have sworn there was but I could just be ********.

Also, in case you couldn't tell I'm willing to play WiFi.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Well, there isn't anything official in terms of channel to find BBrawl matches, but a good place to check is #Smash on the synirc server. AmazingAmpharos, myself, and many others are usually there and you can sometimes find matches provided it has some activity!

 

[codfish92]

I still think TL needs a little push to "get there". Hes always overlooked :/. Seriously.

with his down smash and side smash also's connecting, i think your under looking those buffs.

 

[blakinola]

If I sent people replays, could they put them online? Still saving up funds from job to buy a capture device. Then I'll have replays up the arse.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

Totally irrelevant to battle, but, kirby's Wario bite attack has a coin element to it, yet, wario's OWN bite doesn't... what gives with that? Might be a nice little ascetic change like adding darkness to Gannondorf's pummel.

 

[Leon89]

Totally irrelevant to battle, but, kirby's Wario bite attack has a coin element to it, yet, wario's OWN bite doesn't... what gives with that? Might be a nice little ascetic change like adding darkness to Gannondorf's pummel.

no, i think you found the gluttony "small" secret. just like Wario has coins come out when he pommels people. well that is 2/3 that i know.

 

[BG3]

Does Bowser have a relatively easy time with the rest of the cast now? He was always one of my vbrawl mains, and I always hated how small characters had so many advantages in vbrawl, so naturally as a heavyweight, he was disadvantaged as well. Also, can someone show me a Bbrawl match of a decent Falcon?

 

[Liquid Gen]

Bowser never had a particularly hard time with anyone, excluding Olimar, Falco, and D3.

So basically he's the same, albeit improved a lot due to several damage buffs and DAAAAAAIR.

 

[Mit]

Had an inquiry about temple, and to an extent Spear Pillar.

Temple seems near unplayable. I like what the original idea with it was, but if you play on the right side of the level, the camera fixes itself much too high. You're typically fighting right behind the HUD (character portraits and damage percentages), and those are a large obstruction. The ceiling seems unnaturally low as well for how wide the stage is as well. An interesting element though, and I'm guessing the reason you implemented it was to allow people to get killed in the middle of the stage easier (as the left/right boundaries would be very far away).

As for Spear Pillar, I'm an advocate of leaving things as close to their vBrawl components as you guys, but the Pokemon are just far too active on Spear Pillar to be fighting in front of them all the time. Either people get killed by them often, or fights just stop while the Pokemon attack. The lower boundary also seems a bit too low (you have to remain higher than usual sometimes when recovering). I suppose that was to prevent people from going into the lower part of the level though.

Anyhow, in the future if there's ever a way to make the Pokemon attack less frequently, I'd recommend using that. Or getting rid of the Pokemon altogether (which would probably require a new code as well; freezing the stage would probably stop the hovering platforms).

 

[JOE!]

Bowser never had a particularly hard time with anyone, excluding Olimar, Falco, and D3.
.

olimar is fine, falco is fine...

His only real problem matches are DDD, ICs and Diddy.

The 3 of them got their infinites gone

 

[Liquid Gen]

To be honest, the only people I had trouble with were Olimar and IC's. I put Falco because they're boring to play against, lol.

I excluded IC's from my previous list cause my subconcious defense mechanism made me forget thei existance.

Diddy is easy for me cause you can koopahop over his bananas and pick them up at the same time with an aerial, keeing good control of them.

To make this on topic, Bowser's ftilt in BB is still one of his best moves, along with klaw and fortress.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I've been watching the vids posted, but all all them are WiFi...
until anyone can get videos of good offline battles, no one would take it seriosly

 

[JOE!]

problem is theres generally a long distance between us...

 

[daisho]

I've been watching the vids posted, but all all them are WiFi...
until anyone can get videos of good offline battles, no one would take it seriosly

And until I make friends in the brawl community I can't help you... Though I did play offline FFAs with my noob friends... nothing froze btw even MKs Final Smash.

 

[JOE!]

Did falcon's?


I dont think it's a coding error, i think its that he's so powerful now that he literally breaks teh game

 

[ぱみゅ]

the word of BBrawl should be spreaded
maybe isn't perfectly balanced yet, but it is still evolving, and for that, it needs feedback; for feedback, it needs more play.
maybe for next update (in some months) game could be pretty well known

EDIT: #1000 post! this is growing pretty fast