Bairly Disjointed- Jiggs hitbox comparison *UPDATED*8/14/10

[Stratocaster]

Updated to base the image from frame 10 instead of frame 11 by magus' suggestion
added a few new moves, dropped some others just by deleting a file I didn't mean too
NOW TAKING SUGGESTIONS!!!

to be added:
Marth's jab
Marth's ftilt
Marth's fsmash
I want to add those at the bottom though because most of these are aerials...

 

[Geist]

This is pretty cool.
I think Jiggs bair is considered amazing for more reasons than range alone.

GaW for bair tier

 

[EPsilon933]

This is pretty cool.
I think Jiggs bair is considered amazing for more reasons than range alone.

GaW for bair tier

Yes. It's not the disjointednes alone that makes it broken. During her bair, she pulls her leg back fast and it ends fast, unlike a lot of other normal moves.

 

[Cosmo!]

this is a good thread

more threads like this please

also note jigg's aerial momentum allows her to retreat extremely fast w/ her bair so she can use it in a much more effective way than these characters

how's sheiks bair look on this list?

 

[shehehe11]

Puff's bair might not be the most disjointed
but
- quick start up time
- quick cool down time
- good knockback
make it a decently high-priority spammable move. Coupled with Puff's floatiness and horizontal mobility, it basically becomes broken.

 

[Kanelol]

can someone explain to me exactly what disjointed means

because G&W's looks sorta more range-y

 

[Strong Badam]

disjointed typically means when the hitbox extends far past the character's hurtbox. note how the far left hitbox of jiggs' bair is almost completely separate from jiggs' model (yellow).

cosmo! pretty much covered why jiggs' bair's usefulness isn't only derived from the hitboxes alone. for example, marth's fsmash looks stupid, yet it can be punished easily.

 

[JPOBS]

can someone explain to me exactly what disjointed means

because G&W's looks sorta more range-y

disjointed is how far the hitbox is from the hurtbox.

so in these pics, the more red color there is after the yellow ends, the more disjointed the move is.

 

[Magus420]

It looks like that's frame 11 of Jiggs' b-air where the hitbox is interpolated to have the full range from frame 10, but the leg is already pulling back giving the illusion of it being more disjointed than it really is. Could you show frame 10?

 

[Strong Badam]

frame 10:

as usual, magus is correct.

 

[Pengie]

Pretty cool thread, but as others have stated Jigg's bair is dumb for other reasons.

P.S: who is that in between Marth and DK?

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

disjointed typically means when the hitbox extends far past the character's hurtbox. note how the far left hitbox of jiggs' bair is almost completely separate from jiggs' model (yellow).

blah don't use the term "hurtbox," which is a term that was invented by brawlers. other fighting game communities mock us for using it.

 

[EPsilon933]

blah don't use the term "hurtbox," which is a term that was invented by brawlers. other fighting game communities mock us for using it.

Trust this guy.

 

[Stratocaster]

Pretty cool thread, but as others have stated Jigg's bair is dumb for other reasons.

P.S: who is that in between Marth and DK?

Ya thats IC, I had to overlay his hurt+hitbox only form over him because the hammer covered the end of the hitbox

Magus made a point but for every character I went for the frame of maximum disjoint...ness?

Ya anyway I understand its interpolated to have the range from frame 10 and 11, but if you hit with the attack on frame 11 its more disjointed so I chose to show that. The hitbox from frame 10 is still there so I don't see what the problem is. The only argument you could make is if you were attacking jiggs on frame 10 then it would be less disjointed and be easier to hit her through her bair.... but as I said I went for the frame of max disjoint on all attacks

also the point about Jiggs bair coming out fast isnt really true, its actually a little slower than a lot of these other bairs, but it is interruptable more quickly than most (frame 31) and that and aerial mobility create a wall of bairs

Point though is some characters can hit right threw it if your spacing>theirs

@ Bizzarro Flame- Also what do you suppose we call these 'not hurtboxes' then? Yellow bubbles? vulnerable area?

 

[Geist]

**** i got page ninja'd

blah don't use the term "hurtbox," which is a term that was invented by brawlers. other fighting game communities mock us for using it.

I've always heard the term hurtbox 0_o
What else is it called?

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

**** i got page ninja'd

I've always heard the term hurtbox 0_o
What else is it called?

hitbox refers to both attacking and hittable box.

edit: "active hit-box" and "vulnerable hitbox" are generally accepted...

for example if an attack's active hitbox collides with an opponent's vulnerable hitbox, then it will register a hit

 

[Magus420]

Hitting with frame 11 is far less common than hitting on 10, and competing attacks are much more likely to have some part of its duration have overlap with Jiggs b-air's frame 10 than for the competing attack to come out directly on frame 11. It's the more disjointed part, but it's also much less relevant.

 

[Stratocaster]

Hitting with frame 11 is far less common than hitting on 10, and competing attacks are much more likely to have some part of its duration have overlap with Jiggs b-air's frame 10 than for the competing attack to come out directly on frame 11. It's the more disjointed part, but it's also much less relevant.

Is it worth fixing? I should be able to fix it in a 10-20 minutes time if necessary

 

[KirbyKaze]

Someone should make a series of these:

Fairly Disjointed
Dair to be Disjointed
Bairly Disjointed

Uair is a real issue though.

 

[EPsilon933]

Uair is a real issue though.

uair be disjointed?
nair to disjointed?

 

[Stratocaster]

uair (are) you disjointed?
nair (never) be disjointed

you gotta have some kinda accent on those
and I could make more of these easy but the point was to compare them to jigglypuff and thats what the whole red area is the 'standard' to be compared to

and tomorrow I'll probably change this to reflect Magus' suggestion cause he can't be wrong can he?

 

[mers]

Magus, did you recognize which frame of the bair that was just from memory? Cause thats insane.

 

[mastermoo420]

idk man Magus and M2K are crazy about their frame data.

But, also, one of the reasons that Jigg's bair is known for its disjointedness is that she doesn't have any weapon. G&W and Marth have an obvious sword/turtle/box thing that points out that it's going to hit. I mean, it's disjointed, but Jiggs' is also deceptive. Plus, in proportion to the characters, Jigg's is big. P:

But those are fairly simple reasons; previously stated reasons are better lol

 

[BEES]

hitbox refers to both attacking and hittable box.

edit: "active hit-box" and "vulnerable hitbox" are generally accepted...

for example if an attack's active hitbox collides with an opponent's vulnerable hitbox, then it will register a hit

is there anything that takes less time to say than that

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach's Bair ****ing sucks

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

is there anything that takes less time to say than that

I think this is why the mocked term "hurtbox" came into being.

I'd rather put in a few more letters than to lower this game's image even further.

 

[Strong Badam]

i could mock you for saying hitbox and instead call it an attackbox, but at the end of the day it's the same **** thing and it doesn't matter what you call it so long as people understand the terminology.
& the normal fighting game community gave up on smash a long time ago.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

I have read so much bashing on smash from those communities for the entire day, and you're right. what a shame though. something as radical as competitive smash, especially with bans, cannot be accepted by those communities.

but i guess i'm still overly conscious of what they think of us. i'll be happy as long as i am able to discourage people from using the term "hurtbox" before it spreads like a virus. can I at least do this one thing for the community?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

how much more disjointed is falco's laser than puffs bair I ask??? seeing how puff just missed 3 bairs why laser in teh face right as she turns around.

 

[Strong Badam]

I have read so much bashing on smash from those communities for the entire day, and you're right. what a shame though. something as radical as competitive smash, especially with bans, cannot be accepted by those communities.

but i guess i'm still overly conscious of what they think of us. i'll be happy as long as i am able to discourage people from using the term "hurtbox" before it spreads like a virus. can I at least do this one thing for the community?

stop beating MEXICAN and u can do watever
btw icg won the thread if no one noticed

 

[L__]

but i guess i'm still overly conscious of what they think of us. i'll be happy as long as i am able to discourage people from using the term "hurtbox" before it spreads like a virus. can I at least do this one thing for the community?

I like "hurtbox"

 

[King Funk]

Oh my god, Brawl players created the word "hurtbox"... THEY CREATED A WORD! DON'T USE THAT WORD IT'S PROFANE!

Pathetic... >_>

Btw, Jiggs bair too good, I'm gonna main Jiggs now.

 

[Nihonjin]

hitbox refers to both attacking and hittable box.

edit: "active hit-box" and "vulnerable hitbox" are generally accepted...

for example if an attack's active hitbox collides with an opponent's vulnerable hitbox, then it will register a hit

Yeah, here's what I'm not doing; Bothering to type 'Active hit-box' and 'vulnerable hit-box' all the time.

Hit & Hurt box are much easier to understand and easier to say/type. I don't give a **** if a Brawler came up with the term or if other fighting communities 'mock us' for using it. It's still more convenient than what's generally accepted and should become the new standard..:embarrass

 

[Cosmo!]

Is it worth fixing? I should be able to fix it in a 10-20 minutes time if necessary

you really should, it would make it much more accurate as to what moves could beat jiggs bair. it would be more relevant for tournament play.

also, add more moves! not just bairs. I wanna see how marth's fair stands up against jiggs bair, etc.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Marth's F Air's very slightly longer if I remember correctly.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Hit & Hurt box are much easier to understand and easier to say/type. I don't give a **** if a Brawler came up with the term or if other fighting communities 'mock us' for using it. It's still more convenient than what's generally accepted and should become the new standard..:embarrass

Oh my god, Brawl players created the word "hurtbox"... THEY CREATED A WORD! DON'T USE THAT WORD IT'S PROFANE!.

must contain rage lol...

I never said that the fact that it was invented by brawlers is a bad thing even though it was unavoidable for the term "brawlers" to have a negative connotation for obvious reasons. I only typed "which is a term that was invented by brawlers" to provide the background of where the term originated from, not for the reason of supporting my argument. If i replaced the word brawlers with melee players, then it wouldn't be so bad would it?

edit: btw, would magus approve of using the term "hurt-box"? I don't know to tell the truth, but I would like to hear from him.

stop beating MEXICAN and u can do watever
btw icg won the thread if no one noticed

Nah, you know that our matches are pretty epic, but he would be ****** if he had more ganon experience (example, rockcrock's dk vs any ganon). Other than that, he has the coolest neck-tie that I have ever seen; I swear that I could have lost if I kept paying attention to it during grand finals.

 

[Nihonjin]

must contain rage lol...

I never said that the fact that it was invented by brawlers is a bad thing even though it was unavoidable for the term "brawlers" to have a negative connotation for obvious reasons. I only typed "which is a term that was invented by brawlers" to provide the background of where the term originated from, not for the reason of supporting my argument. If i replaced the word brawlers with melee players, then it wouldn't be so bad would it?

And I said I couldn't care less about its origins.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Where did you explicitly say that?

Okay fine, i should not have quoted you; I should have read your post more carefully in the first place.

Since it seem like some people are sticking to the term, all I ask of them now is to know the term that the fighting game communities use. If one of the members of a fighting game community is curious about the game and you explain hit-boxes and other stuffs, then be prepared to answer the questions "what is a hurt-box?" and "what is dittos?".

sorry for detracting the subject away from puff's disjointed hit-box.

 

[Nihonjin]

Where did you explicitly say that?

Okay fine, i should not have quoted you; I should have read your post more carefully in the first place.

Since it seem like some people are sticking to the term, all I ask of them now is to know the term that the fighting game communities use. If one of the members of a fighting game community is curious about the game and you explain hit-boxes and other stuffs, then be prepared to answer the questions "what is a hurt-box?" and "what is dittos?".

sorry for detracting the subject away from puff's disjointed hit-box.

Actually, not really.

I had never heard of the term hurt-box before this thread, but the meaning is pretty clear if you know anything about the subject (unlike Active hitbox). Same for ditto's.