Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread

[King5280]

why dont you CP against armadas YL? I think it would be **** if you went to shiek or something.

cause then his sheik would have to play armadas peach.

 

[Krynxe]

Mahone you did so good at ACM. Great games, and I learned a lot watching some of your matches. I definitely have a lot of work to do, I plan to place high at my next regional.

 

[crush]

You suck krynxe <3

 

[idea]

shameless plug:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=317315

 

[Warhawk]

cause then his sheik would have to play armadas peach.

Yea but what he can do is if he beats Armada's Young Link with Puff he can then next match counterpick Sheik against Armada who will be stuck playing Young Link because he lost and so gets stage counterpick and gives Hungrybox character counterpick, effectively giving Hungrybox two matches in the set and needing only one more to win (unless its not later in the tournament and then it will outright give him the win). This is unless for whatever reason Armada switches characters to Peach with the counterpick stage, but then Hungrybox still gets to pick character after Armada and can stay Puff.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I wish I could go...perhaps I may be able to. Who knows.

 

[Mahone]

Mahone you did so good at ACM. Great games, and I learned a lot watching some of your matches. I definitely have a lot of work to do, I plan to place high at my next regional.

thanks man, imma try to start going to more tournies and getting more vids recorded...

im glad u learned some stuff and good luck at ur next regional

 

[stelzig]

Yea but what he can do is if he beats Armada's Young Link with Puff he can then next match counterpick Sheik against Armada who will be stuck playing Young Link because he lost and so gets stage counterpick and gives Hungrybox character counterpick, effectively giving Hungrybox two matches in the set and needing only one more to win (unless its not later in the tournament and then it will outright give him the win). This is unless for whatever reason Armada switches characters to Peach with the counterpick stage, but then Hungrybox still gets to pick character after Armada and can stay Puff.

The loser picks character last so he could only switch to sheik this way after a loss. But yeah, he definitely has a shot at going sheik against young link in at least one match. Not that I neccesarily support that and I think hbox has already stated that he doesn't think y.link wins the matchup.

Edit: You may see some people just instantly picking a character with their counterpick stage, but they have a right to see the winners character choice first.

 

[Warhawk]

The loser picks character last so he could only switch to sheik this way after a loss. But yeah, he definitely has a shot at going sheik against young link in at least one match. Not that I neccesarily support that and I think hbox has already stated that he doesn't think y.link wins the matchup.

Edit: You may see some people just instantly picking a character with their counterpick stage, but they have a right to see the winners character choice first.

Hmm you're right... For some reason I was thinking that the winning player picked their character second... I must just have been in Cactuar's tentative new ruleset thread too much lol.

 

[Beat!]

Character CPing would be a terrible idea. Armada's YL would beat Hbox's Sheik unless Hbox picked her up seriously.

And come on, he's getting closer every time. He went from getting dominated at Pound 5, to losing convincingly while barely taking a game at Genesis 2, to winning a whole freaking set at Apex (sure, coaching, but still. It was a lot closer than before). Be a little patient instead of going all "OMG GO SHEIK YOU CAN NEVER BEAT HIM WITH PUFF".

 

[King5280]

he took a set off him. he can win the mu.

 

[stelzig]

Hmm you're right... For some reason I was thinking that the winning player picked their character second... I must just have been in Cactuar's tentative new ruleset thread too much lol.

Cactuar's new ruleset also suggests that!? *sigh* now it's even worse than I thought before, lol.

 

[Warhawk]

Be a little patient instead of going all "OMG GO SHEIK YOU CAN NEVER BEAT HIM WITH PUFF".

Lol was I doing that? I was just saying that if he wanted Hungrybox could play Armada's game in a way that could give him a solid advantage in a set (though this is incorrect of course, I misinterpreted the rules). I was still even saying he'd have to beat Armada's YL with Puff first. And I would assume that he would train with Sheik before using her, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

@Stelzig I think it did initially but I think he removed it... Either that or they were debating on it in the thread at one point... Or I'm just going insane lol.

 

[boomrested]

Warhawk's my favorite poster. No lie.

 

[Warhawk]

Lol I can't tell if you're poking fun at me or not.

 

[boomrested]

Nah man I'm serious. you actually have calm discussions where you lay out the facts, instead of half the guys on the boards who don't have any rational sense of how to discuss things. *Seal of Approval*

 

[Warhawk]

Well thank you, I try not to do that because I see a lot of posters on here that have legitimately good points/ideas/opinions and then they post their idea really abrasively and suddenly I don't want to even consider what they said and I think its a shame. So I try to avoid that so at least even if I'm wrong someone will usually still hear me out and point me in the right direction.

On another note I think that Puff is one of the best characters for players to try out at some point in time even if for just awhile. About 2 years ago I stopped playing Falco randomly and would only play Puff for a long while and I feel like that time spent as Puff really made my reads better. That habit of constantly looking to see if they give you a potential rest setup or how they react to your pressure to see how you can get under their defenses really helps in my opinion. I think Puff should be considered with Fox in that group of characters that really help improve certain skillsets for players.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ you are a smart man, sir.

 

[Krynxe]

I agree, Puff really helps develop your ability to read in a match. Another thing I believe is notable is stage control, an essential to Puff's survivability.

Digressing, I believe Cactuars new 2-stock ruleset would further encourage camping to preserve stocks more along with the ability to more easily time people out as a "strategy". It also encourages the metagame to heavily centralize around gimping, causing characters like Fox, ICs, and Puff (due to shines, wobbling, and rests respectively) to be further broken and generally give a much harder time to character that lack extraordinary mobility and/or recovery. Thought?

 

[boomrested]

Oh, hi guys.

Ask me stuffz! :D

IMO you should make a "Ask Hbox about Jigglypuff" thread. A lot of character boards have their best main host a ask stuff thread. Just a thought.

 

[King5280]

warhawk do you go to tournaments?

 

[idea]

It makes sense that the character which benefits most from reads would help teach that skillset.

 

[Warhawk]

warhawk do you go to tournaments?

Unfortunately no, I've never been to anything but a really tiny local tourney which really doesn't count. I want to try to go to The Big House this year and maybe one of the Sweet series tourneys up in Ann Arbor or Lansing, but its really dependent on how I'm going to get a ride there seeing as I don't actually own a car. I also have to factor in school if I wanna go to one of the Sweet series tourneys. Why do you ask though?

 

[King5280]

im from east lansing i was wondering if we had met. you should come to sweet VI

 

[Warhawk]

I'll see what I can do. I'd really like to, best way to improve. Sometimes I regret that I chose CMU over MSU >_> lol didn't realize that there was such a solid smash community at MSU and U of M when I went around for schools.

 

[idea]

you could always transfer, couldn't you...don't US colleges/universities give transfer credits?

 

[King5280]

msu recently just started picking up again. but if your grades are decent enough itd be easy and maybe a good idea to transfer. msu>cmu

 

[Warhawk]

I could always transfer but at this point it would be a pain since I already have everything planned out for here including an agreement with my current roommate to get an apartment and my girlfriend agreed to transfer to CMU next semester pretty much for me, so leaving would be kinda a douche move on my part lol. Sucks too because my grades are likely good enough to transfer(3.74 gpa lol). But its not as if CMU is a bad school (our engineering department is like brand new, plus cheaper), just very few people play smash, they all go to the casino lol. But I'm sure I'll find a way at some point to get myself to a tournament in Michigan. Isn't Dope coming out of retirement to go to the next Sweet tournament? If I heard correctly that sounds pretty sweet.

 

[King5280]

ya theres a lot of old schoolers that are coming out for it. should be really good.

 

[Beat!]

Warhawk, I wasn't targeting anyone in particular. Didn't mean to offend/attack you, so I apologize if you felt that way. It's just that I've seen this "Hbox should go Sheik" notion so many times now, and it's kinda tiresome.

 

[Warhawk]

If you're talking about my post about me generally finding it hard to agree with abrasive posters even when they have good opinions I wasn't referencing you, you generally don't do that. When I said that I was thinking of the posters that more consistently post like that (like every other post) and I was more speaking in general about why I post the way I do. If you're talking about my explanatory post before that one I didn't feel attacked I just wanted to make sure you knew I was not on the same train as those who think Hungrybox should pick up a new character just to play solely for Armada and that I was just trying to think of a way Hungrybox could play some games with Armada without even having to fully turn away from Puff.

 

[Beat!]

I was talking about the explanatory one, yeah.

And ok, cool.

 

[hungrybox]

I'm currently working on secondaries


I've played Melee like three times (sessions) in the past few weeks

Used jiggs probably 1% of the matches

But nonetheless, you still have to stay in practice.

Chemical engineering is taking up a lot of time too, but we have fests in Gainesville every now and then.

KirbyKaze is the first sheik to beat me in tournament in probably three years, by the way. Guy is too damn good.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Such a hideous matchup for Sheik. You should've played gayer.

 

[Tekk]

KK > MKK

too good

 

[Warhawk]

Such a hideous matchup for Sheik. You should've played gayer.

I really can't see the matchup being worse than 40:60 for Sheik and I doubt its even that low.

 

[idea]

that matchup's weird, i really don't know what i think about it anymore. i mean, except that puff wins by some amount.

 

[ScareMl]

hey guys, im kinda 11 years late, but i just started playing melee and puff. im a marth main and part of the marth boards in brawl and i use the wii+chuk (with tap jump), so a gcc is really foreign to me. With the gcc, I use tap jump and almost always use the L button to shield, shield grab, roll, etc. So i had a couple questions:

For players who use tap jump, what's the best way to wavedash? and why is puff's so short? I flick the control stick up and then down right/left and press L, but it feels awkward.

*noob question right here* what's l cancelling? should puff be doing it?


what are some good ledge recovery options?

best throw?

what's the timing for u-throw -->rest on fast fallers like fox?

when knocked offstage, what's the best way to recover from above? below?

Thanks for helping me get started on Puff.

 

[FoxLisk]

hey guys, im kinda 11 years late, but i just started playing melee and puff. im a marth main and part of the marth boards in brawl and i use the wii+chuk (with tap jump), so a gcc is really foreign to me. With the gcc, I use tap jump and almost always use the L button to shield, shield grab, roll, etc. So i had a couple questions:

whoa

For players who use tap jump, what's the best way to wavedash? and why is puff's so short? I flick the control stick up and then down right/left and press L, but it feels awkward.

I have a friend who wavedashes with tap jump consistently, so I can't say it's not doable, but your life will be tremendously easier if you just learn to use a jump button. either way it's just a matter of practice.

*noob question right here* what's l cancelling? should puff be doing it?

when you land while you're in an aerial attack animation (not special moves, just regular aerials), if you hit L right as you're landing, your lag time is dramatically reduced. every character should do this every time they land while doing an aerial. Puff tends to do that less than other characters, but whenever you are landing with an aerial you have to l cancel.

 

[ScareMl]

oh so that's how melee players go from an aerial to a grab or smash so fast. Thanks!

one more thing, what is crouch cancelling?