Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread

[Prince_Abu]

thanks guys

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

can't wait to see the matches...

 

[Metà]

puff's f-tilt is severely under-used imo

 

[Krynxe]

Can't tell if serious or joking.

If serious, what applications to you think ftilt has that's a better alternate to her other options? (grab, fsmash, dash attack, etc)

 

[idea]

it's good at edgeguarding illusion vs. spacies. goes below the stage a bit. doesn't work if they sweetspot the edge unfortunately.

more importantly it's ****ing swag to hit with onstage.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

It's animation ends 3 frames faster than grab, you can direct it high or low, it has more range than grab, and it has a hitbox that lasts twice as long as grab.

Although grabs can set up better combos.

fsmash and dashattack are more risky

When I remember to use (which isn't often) I use it more defensively than offensively... onstage. If I land close to someone but am facing the wrong way, sometimes I turnaround -> ftilt.

Or if they're at high percent, it's a safe(er) way to get the opponent offstage.

 

[Krynxe]

Well, when I said "dash attack" I was referring for ledge guarding because puff's dash attack is fantastic for ledge guarding and significantly safer and better than ftilt. The hitbox for ftilt is miniscule and terrible unrewarding. Fsmash or grab when on the stage would be significantly more rewarding, or if you're actually close enough a utilt for the combos. I can't think of any situation where ftilt would be the best option really.

But I mean, it is pretty ****ing swag so I'll give you that, Idea.

 

[King5280]

i like jiggs dash attack in general, you just cant be dumb and do it on shields.

 

[Rud Lisi]

Ftilt is pretty good, its no reward but its cool, i always use it for edgeguarding sweetspot attempts, seems better, dtilt, fsmash, and dash attack can be punished easily

 

[Krynxe]

^
Rule of thumb for most dash attacks.

Puffs is a really good mixup though because it's much faster than people expect puff to move and when you're constantly in the air it's just generally not expected.

Remember that peach can sweetspot usmash you oos and fox's usmash oos is always op so be extra careful versus these two. (Not many peaches are smart enough to usmash you oos though tbh, they'll probably go for a grab or like drop their shield and dsmash or something.)

Edit:
@Rud: The problem with ftilt is that the hitbox is pretty pathetic. Almost ness' grab pathetic. Using it to ledgeguard is pretty unsafe because a lot of the times you'll either trade or just straight up be hit and fail to ledge guard. Puff has SO many better ledgeguard options.

Pretty sure Meta was joking from the start anyways. :3

 

[Rud Lisi]

hmmm, great point krynxe.. anyone wanna get on skype.... i am dying of boredom

i didn't mean that in a sexual weird way... lets talk about puff

and i heard mahone isn't a pedofile and that it was just a joke about that stuff he said

 

[idea]

well yeah, he knows pp in person, pretty sure he was just bluffing to the extreme to get his friend to ban him.

 

[Metà]

Can't tell if serious or joking.

If serious, what applications to you think ftilt has that's a better alternate to her other options? (grab, fsmash, dash attack, etc)

I was joking, but it's pretty funny that some people actually took it seriously

yeah the whole point is when you do it you can be like "***** just got f-tilted"

 

[Krynxe]

I am on skype: "Krynxe"
Anyone feel free to add

Playing l4d2 right now so I won't be responsive until a little later, but that's just right now. I'm on skype like all the time.

 

[ShroudedOne]

(Not many peaches are smart enough to usmash you oos though tbh, they'll probably go for a grab or like drop their shield and dsmash or something.)

I am only a little offended.

 

[King5280]

mahone should be offended. he's now alledgedly a pedo.

 

[Metà]

anyone else like using jab to edge-guard? it has some practical uses, and no one ever expects it, so it works well on fast-fallers, cause they just get tapped and die

jabbing a spacy to death is the most satisfying feeling in the world

 

[idea]

lol you mean to catch them out of their double jump to the edge? i love that.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, I do it on battlefield sometimes. You can also jab if you expect an illusion and have plenty of time to cover other options if they don't.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

I jab sometimes when a spacie is up-Bing from directly under the ledge. They almost always miss the sweetspot, and I feel like jab has some good priority... so for some reason I rarely get hit by the fire. Then I go down and bair/fair them.

 

[Krynxe]

^ Yeah. Remember though, that if they have a jump there's a good chance that they'll jump against the stage and walljump -> illusion. Which is why I mentioned battlefield a post ago

It's just another option you have to cover. If you remember & expect it though, it's not too difficult to cover

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Yeah I was picturing FD for some reason, but I usually only do it if Im right at the edge and I see them start to firefox from right below... dashattack works too. But if they happen to sweetspot they may catch you in dashattack lag (rare)

 

[Metà]

^ Yeah. Remember though, that if they have a jump there's a good chance that they'll jump against the stage and walljump -> illusion. Which is why I mentioned battlefield a post ago

It's just another option you have to cover. If you remember & expect it though, it's not too difficult to cover

if they were using their up-b, then they already don't have their jump.

 

[Krynxe]

Though that's often true, a lot of foxes will just up+b back. It's pretty safe for them, because a lot of puff will over-commit or trade to punish the up+b and then the fox can immediately jump and illusion or something to get back on stage very quickly before the puff can get the momentum to finish the gimp. Plus, you can jab a spacie in the middle of their illusion so I was also refering to that. You're right though Meta, that's usually true.

 

[Metà]

Though that's often true, a lot of foxes will just up+b back. It's pretty safe for them, because a lot of puff will over-commit or trade to punish the up+b and then the fox can immediately jump and illusion or something to get back on stage very quickly before the puff can get the momentum to finish the gimp. Plus, you can jab a spacie in the middle of their illusion so I was also refering to that. You're right though Meta, that's usually true.

no like, doing the up-b actually takes away your jump.

 

[Krynxe]

Seriously? I could have sworn that it only takes away their jump if they delay the b input a little on accident. (Like they press up and it registers as their double jump before they press b to up+b) I thought that if they press up and b close enough together, it didn't do that.

I feel kind of stupid for not having realized though, I'm sure you're right. That's really good to know then.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Yeah that happens with the illusion too. after they overB or upB (then get hit) then there's no jumps left.

 

[Krynxe]

Man I had no idea. That's really useful to know

 

[ShroudedOne]

Silly Krynxe. <3

 

[stelzig]

Even airdodging takes away your jump. Freefall animation = no jump.

Edit: After some testing, it looks like you actually keep your jump if you get punished immediately after. My guess is that it's because the first couple of vulnerable frames aren't in the freefall state yet or something. I dunno, that rule doesn't work for upb and sideB, as you mentioned.

 

[standardtoaster]

Iirc if you are hit during the air dodge animation at all you will keep your jump. If the air dodge animation completes and you enter special fall, you will not.

 

[Prince_Abu]

me vs vanz

winners rd 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3nA9w6gAew&list=UUvVsvoTQz540YXDpuaNKvLQ&index=11&feature=plcp

LF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8lYRJPqMEo&list=UUvVsvoTQz540YXDpuaNKvLQ&index=2&feature=plcp

 

[Bing]

So I was playing against a Falco who kept illusioning back to the middle of the stage when I hit him offstage as puff... so I started just moving to where he was gunna go, using sing, then rest.... How effective would this actually be? Im thinking not at all...


Also, was reading above and saw that Prince_Abu uses red puff, just wanted to say, Blue > Red

 

[Krynxe]

No color discrimination :3

As punishing an illusion with sing is pretty risky and unnecessary when you could just punish it with a straight rest.

 

[King5280]

abu is next time your in mi summer?

 

[Bing]

No color discrimination :3

As punishing an illusion with sing is pretty risky and unnecessary when you could just punish it with a straight rest.

I shall be racist all I want! Jk


And as for using Sing for punishing illusion, I think its awesome, but yes hella risky.

 

[Krynxe]

Like I said, you might as well just rest punish and skip the unnecessary step of singing. Using sing is entirely worse than just resting, after all sing has weird hitboxes and they can mash out of it pretty easily.

 

[King5280]

unless, theyre at a high percent and you have the lead. then you sing lock them for the win
my conclusion is stopping on-stage illusions with sing is broken.

 

[Bing]

yay Bing stumbled onto a broken tactic with Puff. Praise me!

 

[ShroudedOne]

I mean, I'm not dumb enough to say that Puff only has three moves (uthrow, rest, bair), but you guys are kind of over-complicating things.....