Bad Idea Mafia 4! Game Over, Scum Wins!

[#HBC | Dancer]

Fake analysis? That's a pretty empty statment. Like what?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Kuz, if everyone cooroperates then we shouldn't have this problem. So don't not cooroperate.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Why ask for more then? If I gave my reason to begin with that's all you should need. Clearly if you need more my original probably wasn't good enough for you. What should we do instead of votecounts? There's really no answer for that since there aren't vote counts to begin with in this game so I don't know what we should do instead except oh, I don't know, force stances out of people.

Will you be doing this about stance on people in game too? If we ask you for more substance you'll say "No, my reason is good enough, if you don't like it, or think it needs more to be enough, sucks for you!"?

You don't get it do you? You can still force stances with a vote count!

I swear, this isn't even an argument. You take it to square one, I take it to square two, you take it back to square one again. Your not building on your reasons, just stating the same things over and over when they've been talked about.

As much as I understand, these are your main points.

1. It takes too much time (a.k.a. laziness). - Which shouldn't be too much of a problem since all you got to do is copy and paste + add your vote.

2. It isn't built in here so it shouldn't be in here. - Guess what? Not everything is set in stone. Alot of things became better because they added stuff to something that never had it before. That's how you make progress.

3. Other games sucked at it, this one will too. - Learn from their mistakes. If they did it horribly, where did they fail at? Why not explain why they failed and try to make up for it instead of throwing out the idea entirely?

Vote counts don't show how people thinking in game. Especially since not everyone will be voting.

A.K.A. You, Kuz, and I guess Delvro. There really is nothing to lose with a vote count and alot to win with one.

Who cares if the vote count is accurate? Does that help us in finding scum? I guess, it tells who everyone thinks is scum we don't need the vote count for that. We can force stances out of others and this will completely rid us of having to look for band wagoners because everyone should be providing their own reasons.

There will be band wagoners in either situation. And you if you see a band wagoner, why not go after him for band wagoning? Honestly it just outs scum instead of hides them.

Seph we're arguing about mechanics. Nothing you can say will refute anything I say and vice versa. This whole arguement is simply who thinks which way is better.

It's not even that, it's not an argument if you don't listen to the other side.

All it takes it three people for the system to not work.

"But Kuz, then we can just quickshoot the three people who are not cooperating"

Three townie deaths equal an endgame if we're all town. Not saying that me gova and delvro are all town though, just saying the mechanics behind it are thus. Or maybe I am saying they are all town. Yeah, probably that.

You know what? How about we try doing the vote count without you guys? Just because you three won't be using the system doesn't mean the rest of town won't be. If you guys decide to join mid game or even mid day, go right ahead, but in the meantime. We'll be using the system.

 

[Vult Redux]

But... Yeah, I can't do this, X1-12. Better to replace me now than later in the game. I will gladly play in a game of yours if you ask me at a better time (Dissidia + Pokemon + Spring Break homework = bzzzzzzt *boom*). Thanks so much for the invite though. <3

I'm Town. Good luck everyone!

P.S. I like Nabeshin's post. I would give him Town points for it.

 

[BSL]

i'd say quickshooting is still pretty damn scummy. if it was a 100% confirmation that shooting makes you town, then it isnt scummy. but there is a chance that a mafia member is the quickshooter.

so yeah, odds are that a shooter is town, but since it directly hurts town, no town member would do it, and therefore the quickshooter is scum.

not saying its a 100% scum tell, but more often than not, i would think a quickshooter is scum.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I gotta replace out of this game, its hard enough to play 3 games with my situation and i doubt i can handle 4

 

[Gova]

@Seph

While you can still force stances with a vote count, why waste the time and effort keep tracking of it. My arguement is basically we can do this stuff without a vote count so lets not waste time and effort keeping track of it while yours imo is we can do this stuff with a vote count so whats the harm in adding one?

1. Townies are lazy. I'm just going to cite myself in NBC and oh guess what you too from NBC.
2. Guess what, if isn't broken don't fix it. If BIM needed a vote count there would be one. It's been played so many times that mods would have added in a vote count if it needed one.
3. BIM3 is full of vets who are way better than us at this game and they failed at it. Their mistake was that they were lazy in keeping track of it. Can you guarantee everyone will not be lazy in this game? You can't and it is bound to fail.

You aren't taking it to square 2. This is a circular arguement and nothing will be accomplished. You simply stating why we should have a vote count while I am simply stating why we should not have one. Drop this now.

@BSL

Nice wifom. Quickshooting is not scummy, it is anti-town. Townies are more likely to shoot because they think they have caught scum. Scum really have no reason to shoot other than to save themselves which they can't agianst quickshots.

 

[BSL]

oh, right... didnt think it through that much, lol

 

[Luxor]

The biggest problem with quickshots is what happens after. "But he quickshot yesterDay" is an easy excuse for the godfather to make.

If there's gonna be this huge crapstorm over voting, I'm gonna go ahead and say screw it. Being organized isn't a bad thing, but if you're all that adamant against it there's no way it'll work.

Will post more during school.

 

[SummonerAU]

Sworddancer, what do you think about dropping voting altogether?

 

[X1-12]

Contacting Zen and Ryker to replace Vult Redux and Glyph. Day 1 will begin when they both confirm. -Vocal- Has posted V/LA until Sunday.

 

[BSL]

Aww yeeeaahhh, playin mafia with vox again? Woot woot!!

Did he confirm for this game despite his V/LA? or are you letting confirmation stage pass without his b/c of his V/LA?

 

[BSL]

Wait, gova, why is what I said WIFOM? I'm understand your point, in fact I agree with it somewhat, I just dont see the wifom.

 

[July]

The biggest problem with quickshots is what happens after. "But he quickshot yesterDay" is an easy excuse for the godfather to make.

If there's gonna be this huge crapstorm over voting, I'm gonna go ahead and say screw it. Being organized isn't a bad thing, but if you're all that adamant against it there's no way it'll work.

Will post more during school.

Why so willing to give up on the voting idea already? The game hasn't even started yet and I don't think the discussion was really a "crapstorm". I still think that voting is worth trying to determine the lynch, and that if the shooter for the Day isn't voted they at least need to be determined by town.

 

[Luxor]

Tbh I'm fine with just riding public opinion now. As long as a pseudomajority/plurality are for it, it'll give basically the same results as voting. Being all indy and shooting on your own is still a no-no.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Contacting Zen and Ryker to replace Vult Redux and Glyph. Day 1 will begin when they both confirm. -Vocal- Has posted V/LA until Sunday.

Send me a role PM and I'll confirm.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And **** voting.

 

[X1-12]

Aww yeeeaahhh, playin mafia with vox again? Woot woot!!

Did he confirm for this game despite his V/LA? or are you letting confirmation stage pass without his b/c of his V/LA?

I'm choosing to start the game before he confirms because he is on V/LA.

Ryker replaces Glyph

Zen replaces Vult Redux



Day 1 will start after Zen confirms

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And role PM, **** voting.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Fail edit, X-1.

 

[Xivii]

I didn't get a pm, but I'll assume I'm town.

 

[Luxor]

Always a safe assumption to make.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

WIFOM loaded argument there, Zen.

I actually don't think I've ever played with you.

 

[Xivii]

You replaced out of Halo and Castlevania and replaced in to Celeb. so not completely. I say we play this like a basketball game. What do you say?

And the chances of my role being town is 100%. Same with yours if you haven't gotten it yet.

 

[Xivii]

Alright, confirming.

 

[X1-12]

Day 1 starts at 1 AM GMT, roughly 30 mins from this post.

 

[X1-12]

Day 1 Begins

 

[Gova]

Zen, are you Mafia Godfather agian?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Willing to see Luxor/Sworddancer shot.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Reasoning?

 

[BSL]

zen, why are you and ryker (that is who you were talking to, right?) 100% town?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Summoner:

Only if like 6 people refuse to do it. Others I believe in the system too much. Thing is, we're basically going to be using "votes," weather or not we actually use them, so we might as well set up a convinet method to keep track of things.

@Gova: Can you demonstrate, with quotes, how Seph has done what you accuse him of (for clarification)?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually 6 people is probably a bit obsessive, make it 5.

 

[Gova]

What have I accused him of?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Err, my bad, I meant what you accused me of.

You said I didn't call Seph out for something, and I want you to point out what I didn't call him out on with quotes (cuz I'm mad lazy, yo).

 

[Gova]

First off, do you feel "votes" reflect a person's stances? If you do, go look where Seph "votes" Kuz and me, for having a different opinion than him.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

@Seph

While you can still force stances with a vote count, why waste the time and effort keep tracking of it. My arguement is basically we can do this stuff without a vote count so lets not waste time and effort keeping track of it while yours imo is we can do this stuff with a vote count so whats the harm in adding one?

No, my argument is adding the vote count will give more stability towards this game, and will ADD to scum hunting.

1. Townies are lazy. I'm just going to cite myself in NBC and oh guess what you too from NBC.

You just claimed you'll be lazy playing this game. Will you be planing on being lazy scum hunting later in the game too? If your too lazy to do this, how do we know you won't be lazy about other things?

2. Guess what, if isn't broken don't fix it. If BIM needed a vote count there would be one. It's been played so many times that mods would have added in a vote count if it needed one.

The mod doesn't add a vote count because it's not apart of the game mechanics. This has nothing to do with if the mod wants to add one or not. This is an idea of the players, and as players, we would incorporate it not the mod.

3. BIM3 is full of vets who are way better than us at this game and they failed at it. Their mistake was that they were lazy in keeping track of it. Can you guarantee everyone will not be lazy in this game? You can't and it is bound to fail.

So what? "Vet's can't do it so we can't." This is the worst reasoning I've ever heard. I mean, it's so bad it almost destroys your entire argument. Anyone can do something if they put forth enough initiative. This is a proven fact.

And no, I can't guarantee it, but I can ask for their cooperation in doing this. Which makes this a whole lot easier.

You aren't taking it to square 2. This is a circular arguement and nothing will be accomplished. You simply stating why we should have a vote count while I am simply stating why we should not have one. Drop this now.

No, your making it circular. What I'm saying is that after I bring up a point, you bring up your point you made from earlier to counter the new point I bring up. Your not discussing the issues, your feeding the same crap over and over as if you don't want to progress with the conversation.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

And **** voting.

Can you state your reasons for not wanting one?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Vote counts are dumb. I'm too lazy to repost the vote list every time I vote and I'd rather just shoot someone dead. Why can't we just say no shots until at most 2 days before deadline?

IMO, mafia love to excessively calculate crap about the setup when it's open. It's easy because all the information is out there and they can talk extensively about it without risk of lying. I did it extensively in TWEWY.

Iirc Cello and Zen+Omni argued about the statistics. (both were town btw.) and you commented on it once or twice.

Also, what I said to Gova applies to you too. If your lazy about this, will you be lazy about scum hunting too?

 

[Clownbot]

Once again, do votes always reflect a person's stances in a standard game of Mafia?

Seph is using his votes the same way some people would in any other game. He feels something is best for town so he's obviously going to push for it.