Bad Idea Mafia 4! Game Over, Scum Wins!

[#HBC | Dancer]

Uh, I see a lot of disscussion going on right here. Hope I don't ninja anything already settled.

mmmmmmmhm, explain why they don't.

Could it be the fact that I intentionally WIFOMd the possibility that I was scum twice in an attempt to make you think I was not scum?

Yeah, I bet that was it.

The second line, yes.

The first line, no. The first line doesn't strike me right because you're answering for Gova. Gova can answer for himelf, he doesn't need you're help. You should not be offering outs fo Gova.

Nice way to skip everything I actually said and just focus on the fluff. Now tell me Swordscumder. Why have you continued to implement the stupid voting system when I myself just explained why it was dumb. If you were going to be stubborn about it, you could have at least tackled my points and tried to show me that voting was actually the best solution. Instead, you summarily dismiss my argument by focusing on the unimportant sentences and try to make it seem as if you are scum hunting. Sound about right?
If I actually believed in voting, I would be voting you right now.

Oh, calling me scum already just because I disagreed with you? Ouch, my heart.

Why are you assuming I skipped everything? I didn't respond to everything in your post, because I didn't feel the need to. I asked you a question, pointed out something about your post that bugged me, and then you went ape **** on me and am now calling me scum.

I don't see how the voting system encourages any of the things you worry about (see below). I wasn't even aware that this:

Scenario: We have one scummy person shoot another scummy person.

1. If the person says he cannot shoot when we decide he is the shooter, he must claim a PR. If he gets CCd we decide who is lying and shoot him. If someone interrupts this process and quickshoots someone else, we know that person is the godfather trying to save a buddy.

2. If the person can shoot then they are most likely town (with a small % chance of being the godfather). If we get them to shoot another scummy player than we have DOUBLE that chance of outing scum through not being able to shoot and shooting another scummy player.

This is the way we will operate. If people don't get hasty and quickshoot people, town will win. Quickshooting has literally been the driving force behind every town BiM loss thus far.

was your reasoning for why we shouldn't use a voting system (hence why I didn't respond to it). If anything, this is the type of reasoning I would use to support the voting system.

Under the voting system, no one will be quickshot. IF someone refues to corroperate, then it will make them look scummy, and they will more likely be voted. That's the whole idea. No one should *****, because it will hurt there fraction no matter what it is. Do you get what I'm saying here?

The voting system percisely keeps the two things you worry about from happening:

1. People *****ing about it, cause they will be under the threat of being "voted" if they do.
2. People quickshoothing, for the same reason above.

Luxor pretty much got it right.

Because, if you had actually read anything I just wrote, QUICKSHOOTING LOSES THE GAME FOR TOWN. Just letting you know, I plan to be the one *****ing about the system until you yourself can convince me otherwise.

See above. No one will quickshot with the voting system.

As if this post was not apparent enough that all his analysis is full of air and circular conclusions.

"No opinion" is not a circular conclusion. Neither is percentages (although they are actually wrong I just realized, not that it matters).

 

[th3kuzinator]

Your grasping for straws, you claim that I'm dodging your questions, when the answer was there in the first place.

Yes because "why cant it be both" is analogous to "it is both." Humor me, despite how I act I am actually ********.

So your being useless on purpose?

See that up there? That was the sarcasm flying way over your head.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You should not be offering outs fo Gova.

Who said I was answering for Gova? I have my opinions, he has his. If you are insinuating I was directly responding to your question posed at gova, then thats simply incorrect.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Who said I was answering for Gova? I have my opinions, he has his. If you are insinuating I was directly responding to your question posed at gova, then thats simply incorrect.

Because people like me and gova can ***** about not liking the system and therefore have an excuse not to use it, giving us a free pass from making connections while others do make them.

bolded for emphesis

You're giving reasoning for why Gova doesn't support the voting system here.

 

[Gova]

First of all. Vote counts are a waste of time. There's a reason mods keep track of the votecounts; so the players can actually play the game. Town is going to be so distracted trying to remember who is voting who that it will be a distraction from scum hunting. Also the person who keeps track of the vote count will be fake contributing and has an excuse for lack of content. You know what solves this problem? Forcing stances out of people over and over agian. It's similar to popcorn mafia on AIM except now everyone has a gun. BIM is also fundamentally different and that's why there aren't vote counts, simply because this game doesn't need them. Trying to implement a mechanic in a game that doesn't need it is a big waste of time and is bound to fail. There's also the chance that someone quick shoots effectively making your efforts worthless. Also with out votecounts reasoning for shooting take a high priority in this game. I.E if someone shoots they better have a damn good reason for doing so. Vote counts essentially add a bandwagon factor to this game that we don't need. We need to see everyones individual opinion and if they see a votecount they can just ride on the scummiest person that the votecount shows. Basically this is a game where people need to be held accountable for what they say and do because almost everyone has the power to end the day.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

First of all. Vote counts are a waste of time. There's a reason mods keep track of the votecounts; so the players can actually play the game. Town is going to be so distracted trying to remember who is voting who that it will be a distraction from scum hunting.

Not if we don't make a big deal out of it. If we just copy and paste the vote count but just add our vote/unvote to it, it's not going to be that tough.

Also the person who keeps track of the vote count will be fake contributing and has an excuse for lack of content.

If everyone is doing vote counts, it won't be considered fake contributing. It's as simple as when you place a vote you change the vote count.

You know what solves this problem? Forcing stances out of people over and over agian.

And this can't be accomplished with a vote count?

It's similar to popcorn mafia on AIM except now everyone has a gun. BIM is also fundamentally different and that's why there aren't vote counts, simply because this game doesn't need them. Trying to implement a mechanic in a game that doesn't need it is a big waste of time and is bound to fail.

The game doesn't have them, because votes aren't apart of the game mechanic. Not because we don't need one. If we implement them, it doesn't make the game harder to play it makes it easier.

There's also the chance that someone quick shoots effectively making your efforts worthless.

FYI, Quick shoots are considered scummy. If your truly town, you won't quick shoot in any version of how we play the game.

Also with out votecounts reasoning for shooting take a high priority in this game. I.E if someone shoots they better have a damn good reason for doing so.

And you don't think the opinion of the whole town is better than your opinion? This reasoning is selfish at best. Just because you think you have a good reason to shoot someone, doesn't mean the rest of town thinks there's a better target.

Vote counts essentially add a bandwagon factor to this game that we don't need. We need to see everyones individual opinion and if they see a votecount they can just ride on the scummiest person that the votecount shows.

And we can't just pressure the band wagoners?This is where you use logic to refute your points, and if other people agree, then they will help you shoot the person you want to kill. If not, your not showing the logic that needs to convince them that your target was better in the first place.

Basically this is a game where people need to be held accountable for what they say and do because almost everyone has the power to end the day.

We should be accountable for what we say anyways. Just because the ante has been raised, doesn't mean anything has changed. We've always been accountable for our actions.

You've still haven't shown me what we can do without a vote count, that we can't do with one.

 

[Luxor]

First of all. Vote counts are a waste of time. There's a reason mods keep track of the votecounts; so the players can actually play the game. Town is going to be so distracted trying to remember who is voting who that it will be a distraction from scum hunting. Also the person who keeps track of the vote count will be fake contributing and has an excuse for lack of content. You know what solves this problem? Forcing stances out of people over and over agian. It's similar to popcorn mafia on AIM except now everyone has a gun. BIM is also fundamentally different and that's why there aren't vote counts, simply because this game doesn't need them. Trying to implement a mechanic in a game that doesn't need it is a big waste of time and is bound to fail. There's also the chance that someone quick shoots effectively making your efforts worthless. Also with out votecounts reasoning for shooting take a high priority in this game. I.E if someone shoots they better have a damn good reason for doing so. Vote counts essentially add a bandwagon factor to this game that we don't need. We need to see everyones individual opinion and if they see a votecount they can just ride on the scummiest person that the votecount shows. Basically this is a game where people need to be held accountable for what they say and do because almost everyone has the power to end the day.

Your first two reasons are kind of invalidated by the system I supposed. Nobody can claim activity for doing votecounts if everybody just updates as they vote, which also distributes the workload making votecounting as easy as voting.

Also, votecounts alone aren't going to make people scummy- with or without them, there will be scummy people that are easy prey for daykills. Bandwagons will always exist due to mob psychology.

Forcing stances out of people and holding them accountable also needs to be done in every game. Pretty much everything you said is irrelevant to whether an official votecount exists or not, since it isn't that hard tonread public opinion.

I'm going to reiterate my official stance on voting. If it doesn't work after a while, I'll abandon it- but I'd like to try it out first. Consider it a test run. Maybe we could even vote Day 1 and not vote Day 2 and see which works better.

 

[Luxor]

ninjafied o_0

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Yes because "why cant it be both" is analogous to "it is both." Humor me, despite how I act I am actually ********.

If your going to just dismiss that it couldn't be then yes your grasping for straws. If you don't even look at it your dismissing part of what I said and twisting things to your liking.

See that up there? That was the sarcasm flying way over your head.

Then you avoided the question?

Btw, you still haven't answered the top of my #80.

 

[Gova]

You can force stances with a vote count Seph but why add something uncessary? It's waste of time. Quickshooting is not scummy, it's anti-town. A townie is more likely to quickshoot than mafia, just saying. Also, the vote count thing didn't even work in BIM3. Keeping track of a vote count is a waste of time and effort. There are better things to do.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Gova how do you suggest we go about it then? How should we decide who dies?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Btw vote counts really arn't just a waste of time as you suggest them to be. At worst, it will take someone 10 minutes to collect votes. Not a big thing.

So I want more reasoning why not to use vote counts besides just "it's a distraction."

 

[Gova]

Vote counts are a waste of time. 10 minutes is a lot of time in a game where a Day can end in 1 minute. People have short fuses and will shoot out of frustration if they think it's the best course of action for the town regardless of what the majority wants. Vote counts also won't work unless everyone is on board with it. If you try to put my name on a vote count I will accuse you of lying; which you would be.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

You can force stances with a vote count Seph but why add something uncessary? It's waste of time. Quickshooting is not scummy, it's anti-town. A townie is more likely to quickshoot than mafia, just saying. Also, the vote count thing didn't even work in BIM3. Keeping track of a vote count is a waste of time and effort. There are better things to do.

Quickshooting is what made town lose BIM3. And yes it is anti town. Why the hell would you quick shoot? It really is just self servicing which does more harm then good.

And the vote count will only not work, if self serving town decide to ignore it or quick shoot. Gova, adding the vote count isn't unnecessary, it helps keep track of stances and helps town have a controlling factor in the game. There is no flaw other than the sheer laziness of town.

 

[Gova]

BIM3 is still on-going Seph.

Oh yeah, thats why the vote count idea worked in BIM3 /sarcasm

It won't work, it's a waste of time and effort.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Gova, your just being selfish at this point. So far (other than Kuz) EVERYONE has been on board for a vote count. And even he said that he would be willing to do the vote count if you were. This disproves your it's useless unless everyone is on board stance. You are the road block that stands before this vote count passing not everyone else as your trying to refute.

And people who quick shoot will die the next day. Even if they shoot scum (scum can kill scum to save their own skin). Quick shooting is the WORST action you could do as town. And all this talk from you about it makes me wary of you.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

BIM3 is still on-going Seph.

Oh yeah, thats why the vote count idea worked in BIM3 /sarcasm

It won't work, it's a waste of time and effort.

Did I say BIM3? I meant just BIM. I guess, putting the 3 on it was because everyone was talking about it.

 

[Gova]

And people who quick shoot will die the next day. Even if they shoot scum (scum can kill scum to save their own skin). Quick shooting is the WORST action you could do as town. And all this talk from you about it makes me wary of you.

This is what loses town games. Quickshooting quickshooters.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

We don't just quick shoot them, we decide if that's the appropriate action. You've still been avoiding most of the questions and points we've brought against you. And cherry pick through it all to find one thing to refute on.

 

[Gova]

I'm not cherry picking anything. This whole thing is related to mechanics. I've taken my stance about vote counts. I don't need to refute anything because its based on how the game works and I've offered my opinion on it.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Gova how do you suggest we go about it then? How should we decide who dies?

So I want more reasoning why not to use vote counts besides just "it's a distraction."

Answer this.

 

[Gova]

Hur dur. No. Votecounts don't decide who dies in this game. That question worthless. We can decide how we want to kill people.

Oh, maybe because it's a distraction; which it will be. I also don't trust town to actively keep up with it and even if they did it's still worthless in my opinion. Also lol at Swords trying to shut down my opinions by trying to make me offer more reasons. My reason is that vote counts are a distraction and a waste of time and that's all it ever will be.

 

[Gova]

Also, how are you going to carry out your "lynching" policy with vote counts? When someone reaches the correct amount of votes then what? I'll tell you right now, if I get "lynched" off your voting system I will shoot before you even get a chance to kill me.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

You still never answered the first question. You just said "hur dur, vote counts won't we will." When that doesn't describe how we will.

Also describe how they're useless if it shows how people think in the game?

Vote counts are the most accurate way of deciding of who town thinks should go. Unless you think your smarter and more important than everyone else.

I've got to go to work, I'll be back later. I want you to refute to ALL these points when I get back.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Okay Gova, you offered your reason why we shouldn't use votecounts. Now, tell us, what should we do instead? How should we play this game/

To help you start off, begin your answer with "I think we should play this game by doing . . ."

I'm pretty sure that asking you for more reasoning isn't how I shut down your opinion. I shut down you're opinion by stating that I thought it was incorrect. Asking for more reasoning itself is the exact opposite of "shutting down"

 

[Luxor]

This is a test of the anti-town emergency siren. This is only a test.

BOOOWOOOOBOOOOOP
BOOOWOOOOBOOOOOP
BOOOWOOOOBOOOOOP

We will now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

ninja'd, lol

 

[Gova]

Why ask for more then? If I gave my reason to begin with that's all you should need. Clearly if you need more my original probably wasn't good enough for you. What should we do instead of votecounts? There's really no answer for that since there aren't vote counts to begin with in this game so I don't know what we should do instead except oh, I don't know, force stances out of people.

You still never answered the first question. You just said "hur dur, vote counts won't we will." When that doesn't describe how we will.

Also describe how they're useless if it shows how people think in the game?

Vote counts are the most accurate way of deciding of who town thinks should go. Unless you think your smarter and more important than everyone else.

@ bolded.

Vote counts don't show how people thinking in game. Especially since not everyone will be voting.

Who cares if the vote count is accurate? Does that help us in finding scum? I guess, it tells who everyone thinks is scum we don't need the vote count for that. We can force stances out of others and this will completely rid us of having to look for band wagoners because everyone should be providing their own reasons.

Seph we're arguing about mechanics. Nothing you can say will refute anything I say and vice versa. This whole arguement is simply who thinks which way is better.

 

[BSL]

If we don't have a votecount, and there is multiple scummy people, how do we decide who to shoot?

 

[Clownbot]

Vote counts don't show how people thinking in game. Especially since not everyone will be voting.

False, as long as people can provide sufficient reasoning for their votes. Do votecounts show how people think in a standard game of Mafia? And if so why is it different if we use one here?

As far as I recall you're the only one completely unwilling to vote, btw.

Who cares if the vote count is accurate? Does that help us in finding scum? I guess, it tells who everyone thinks is scum we don't need the vote count for that. We can force stances out of others and this will completely rid us of having to look for band wagoners because everyone should be providing their own reasons.

You're acting as if things like parroting and bandwagoning won't be a problem if we don't use votes. Luxor touched on this problem earlier: Bandwagons will always exist due to mob psychology.

Seph we're arguing about mechanics. Nothing you can say will refute anything I say and vice versa. This whole arguement is simply who thinks which way is better.

Then you think we should drop the discussion? Isn't the quickest way to do that just to suck it up and accept the system? It's already been said that it can be dropped if it proves too much of a hassle without as much benefit.

Gova, do you have any thoughts on the game outside of mechanics? What do you think about Kuz? Does anyone fighting you on the vote system seem particularly scummy?

 

[Gova]

You act like im preventing people from using the system. I'm not. I just don't agree with it. Vote counts still don't show how people think because I still have to ask for their reasoning if they just make a post containing a vote. Also the vote count will be too much of a hassle without benefit. Just look at BIM3, they strarted out with it and then dropped it. Seph was the one who initially brought it up that we should do something similar to BIM3 I think and didn't work there so if past games and ongoing ones show anything its that this will not work. Lol, I do have thoughts outside of mechanics and I've been trying not to talk about mechanics. Kuz is most likely town. I would shoot Swords/Luxor right now maybe.

With regards to questions you should answer the ones you asked me. I.E what do you think of Kuz and who do you find scummy.

 

[BSL]

If we don't have a votecount, and there is multiple scummy people, how do we decide who to shoot?

this was directed at gova and kuz, sorry for not labeling it as such.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I know Clown already addressed the bulk of it but there's a few things I would like to add.

Gova, you realize that even without votes, there will still be people who won't share there thoughts with us, right? You make it sound like having a vote count will somehow give scum something to hide behind. This is not the case. With or without the votecount, scum has just as many options to "hide" behind.

scum can fake stances without voting
scum can fake stances with voting

So you might as well have a convinent system to tell us when person A was going after person B, if you catch my drift.

Also, I noticed that one of the main reasons why you're against vote counts is because you say it will generally encourage scummy activity. Here's what I have to say to that:

If someone votes without giving reason, then go after them mofos.
If you think someone is bandwagoning, then go after them mofos.
If you think someone is using the votecount as a way to provide false content, then go after them mofos.

Gova, you say you're most willing to shoot either me or Luxor right now. Why is that?

 

[Delvro]

Vote counts are dumb. I'm too lazy to repost the vote list every time I vote and I'd rather just shoot someone dead. Why can't we just say no shots until at most 2 days before deadline?

IMO, mafia love to excessively calculate crap about the setup when it's open. It's easy because all the information is out there and they can talk extensively about it without risk of lying. I did it extensively in TWEWY.

Pretty much all of you are doing it, so all of your are scummy and need to die. Except maybe Sworddancer.

K thanks bye!

 

[Clownbot]

@Gova: Kuz is null.

There could be any number of scum tucked away in that group of people who haven't posted anything substantial. I don't think you're scum right now but some of the stuff you've said is just really anti-town to me, like how you'll shoot someone else before we get the chance to shoot you due to the vote system.

It seems like July's done nothing but a lot of parroting and "yes, okay, that's fine, etc." but she hasn't posted in awhile and when she did things weren't as hectic as they are now. I'm looking at BSL funny because based on how recent his last post was I'm assuming he's read everything so far, but... that's it? He's not really divulging his thoughts.

IMO, mafia love to excessively calculate crap about the setup when it's open. It's easy because all the information is out there and they can talk extensively about it without risk of lying. I did it extensively in TWEWY.

Pretty much all of you are doing it, so all of your are scummy and need to die. Except maybe Sworddancer.

I feel dumb for having to ask but, uh... you're being sarcastic, right?

 

[Delvro]

I feel dumb for having to ask but, uh... you're being sarcastic, right?

Halfway.

I actually do like the idea of scummies shooting scummies though. If multiple people successfully make a shot, we know that no more than one can be scum.

 

[Gova]

@Sword

For selective reading with regards to Kuz calling you scum because your opinions differ but you didn't call Seph out for doing the same thing to me and Kuz which he was effectively doing with his "vote". Luxor is inherently trying to appease both sides of the arguement imo by saying we should try the vote count and if it doesn't work we drop it.

This is really subjective to change the because the game hasn't even started >.>

 

[BSL]

Cbot, i had a lot more to say, but as i went through, i read that most of it had been said. i only posted what i could remember wasnt said already.

i dont want the town getting distracted by my parroting.

 

[July]

Wanna know why seph, I am so town, nator?

Because people like me and gova can ***** about not liking the system and therefore have an excuse not to use it, giving us a free pass from making connections while others do make them. This gives scum a better selection for NKs and spreading fake WIFOM the next day from NK deaths. Kapish? Did not work in the last three BiMs and it won't in this one.

Whoever said the hammerer should be the one to shoot is scum and should die asap.

Listen up. FAKING A SHOT IS A MODKILLABLE OFFENSE.

Scenario: We have one scummy person shoot another scummy person.

1. If the person says he cannot shoot when we decide he is the shooter, he must claim a PR. If he gets CCd we decide who is lying and shoot him. If someone interrupts this process and quickshoots someone else, we know that person is the godfather trying to save a buddy.

2. If the person can shoot then they are most likely town (with a small % chance of being the godfather). If we get them to shoot another scummy player than we have DOUBLE that chance of outing scum through not being able to shoot and shooting another scummy player.

This is the way we will operate. If people don't get hasty and quickshoot people, town will win. Quickshooting has literally been the driving force behind every town BiM loss thus far.

Also, Cops don't claim unless you have a guilty and a clear. That or you deem it necessary to.

Goes without saying we no shooting someone until the person being shot claims.



Now take all that in, realize scumKuz would tell you all of this hoping to get on your good side, and then realize its bad meta and discard it. What are you left with?

townKuz.

Now lets kick some scum *** for once. kthx

The scenario of scummy player shooting scummy player is exactly the goal I know I had in mind when I supported voting; I don't see how in the hell we could get anything done by having the hammerer shoot the lynch target.

This plan works with voting and it really shouldn't create the problem that people seem to be making out of this. If the voting plan doesn't work it will die, and then we will probably continue on with majority/mob rule just without the organization of voting. Or people start quickshooting and it becomes anarchic, but thats why the rules against quickshooting exist and have to be enforced.

And if anyone *****es about, then what's to keep us from assuming they're scum, and thus shooting them?

The fact that we can't act on whims here, killing someone just because they dissent is a very bad idea, especially if the person has reasoning. What would scum really gain from dissenting to this plan? They would automatically make themselves a target. We should be looking at motives, why they agree or disagree instead of whether they agree or not.

Nice way to skip everything I actually said and just focus on the fluff. Now tell me Swordscumder. Why have you continued to implement the stupid voting system when I myself just explained why it was dumb. If you were going to be stubborn about it, you could have at least tackled my points and tried to show me that voting was actually the best solution. Instead, you summarily dismiss my argument by focusing on the unimportant sentences and try to make it seem as if you are scum hunting. Sound about right?

If I actually believed in voting, I would be voting you right now.

Truth that Sworddancer focused on fluff. Ridiculous to assume that just because you said voting is dumb that suddenly there will be no more voting. We can achieve exactly the argument you made, scummy people shooting scummy people, via voting.

The concerns you raise over the system are either insolvable (we really can't prevent someone from quickshooting, we can only punish it after its been done) or they have counterparts. If we don't follow a vote system, then aren't we still going by majority rule? So what difference does it make if we try voting at first for organizational purposes? Furthermore, people can avoid making connections or strong stances in any system, this organization is not going to stop people here.

Voting doesn't just bring stability to an obviously chaotic game, it also helps tracks everyone's scum reads. Votes are solid and once put down are forever down. Do you know how easy it is to change a stance? Or to make it seem as if everyone was just "confused" by your words? Well, it's a hell of a lot more easier to do without votes backing you up on every step of the way.

Pretty much this. The thing is that it is really easy for someone to say that they suspect someone or that this action or that action is scummy, but a vote means something definitive, in that you think the person is scum and want them lynched. Having that certainty added to the game, as in the certainty of peoples' motives, should be very helpful.

Under the voting system, no one will be quickshot. IF someone refues to corroperate, then it will make them look scummy, and they will more likely be voted. That's the whole idea. No one should *****, because it will hurt there fraction no matter what it is. Do you get what I'm saying here?

The voting system percisely keeps the two things you worry about from happening:

1. People *****ing about it, cause they will be under the threat of being "voted" if they do.
2. People quickshoothing, for the same reason above.

Luxor pretty much got it right.



See above. No one will quickshot with the voting system.



"No opinion" is not a circular conclusion. Neither is percentages (although they are actually wrong I just realized, not that it matters).

This is really idealistic, we are trying to prevent no one from quickshooting but there is always a chance of that, and Gova made a point here that I honestly hadn't thought of:

Also, how are you going to carry out your "lynching" policy with vote counts? When someone reaches the correct amount of votes then what? I'll tell you right now, if I get "lynched" off your voting system I will shoot before you even get a chance to kill me.

This is something I really hadn't considered, and if we are planning to lynch someone who does have the ability to shoot, we have to be prepared to deal with this. I honestly don't know how we would deal with this, following the principle of "kill all quickshooters" means we have a strong possibility of killing town. If this situation comes up we need to think about our response and not just react, but right now idk how we would handle that.

Also, @Gova: I have read all your posts and I still don't know exactly what you propose we do instead of determining the daykill through votes. You feel that just getting stances from people is enough right? But how do you suppose we figure out who shoots, or when.

Vote counts are dumb. I'm too lazy to repost the vote list every time I vote and I'd rather just shoot someone dead. Why can't we just say no shots until at most 2 days before deadline?

IMO, mafia love to excessively calculate crap about the setup when it's open. It's easy because all the information is out there and they can talk extensively about it without risk of lying. I did it extensively in TWEWY.

Pretty much all of you are doing it, so all of your are scummy and need to die. Except maybe Sworddancer.

K thanks bye!

We can't say no shots until at most 2 days before the deadline, because there is no official deadline. And even if we did do that, I'm pretty sure it would just be complete chaos. If we set the deadline for Monday and say no shots until Saturday, Friday whoever is the top suspect has a really strong advantage in shooting someone before he gets shot.

Also @Gova, answer Seph.

And I need to think about scum-shoot-scum for a minute.

This was from before some of the other stuff I quoted but I really wanted to address the fact that we absolutely should be making it so that scummy people shoot scummy people. I assumed that's why we are imposing rules onto this game such as voting, to ensure that the daykill tells us something important about not just who gets shot, but the shooter as well.

Right now I would like to hear more from Gova about how wants the Day to progress. I've seen a lot from you about the issues with voting, but I'm not sure what you suggest we do instead or how we come to a decision about the lynch target and shooter without voting.

 

[th3kuzinator]

All it takes it three people for the system to not work.

"But Kuz, then we can just quickshoot the three people who are not cooperating"

Three townie deaths equal an endgame if we're all town. Not saying that me gova and delvro are all town though, just saying the mechanics behind it are thus. Or maybe I am saying they are all town. Yeah, probably that.

Scummies shooting scummies is an amazing strategy. If we know someone is obvtown and he shoots, then we just learn he is more obvtown while finding out the alignment of the other person who died. If a scummy shoots a scummy, we find out both of their alignement more or less (as the shooter either shoots, or claims a pr; or is the scum gf is we are unlucky.)

Anyone else notice swords using the same fake analysis over and over again? And Gova actually phrased in quite nicely (I was suprised). Quickshooting is not scummy, as it gives you like a 8:1 ratio that you're town, but its anti-town in that fact that it messes up games.