ATTN: What is wrong with this board? --> we're now planning a guide

[Brinzy]

HMMM, I wonder who you could be talking about.

Oh, ****, can't pull the wool over your eyes, can I?

(In all seriousness, I already said you can call me out, and I'm 90% sure you have a few things to say to me after the Marth/ROB thing.)

I've already said what I wanted to say to you right after it happened.

Our personalities clash. That's all there is to it. What's a joke to you (and even if you say so) may not come across as a joke to me because I don't read into everything that people say. I've been on enough Internet forums that most people say "just kidding" as a way to suppress any potential responses, and now I automatically ignore those. This isn't to accuse you of saying it for that reason (at least not anymore); it's not a personal thing.

 

[KayLo!]

Hm. when u guys start talking srs business i stop reading posts so i cant really reply properly

Not to be rude, but..... are you just trying to +1 post count?

;;

Not that I wanna be Ms. Seriousface, but this is kind of meant to be a serious thread. We're actually trying to sort out the problems on this board and get **** to change for once. x.x Saying "lighten up!" isn't gonna solve the problem.

@SoR: Gotcha.

 

[MrEh]

Most of Zelda's metagame involves situational stuff.

No it doesn't.

 

[GodAtHand]

My #1 problem with this board is MrEh's signature... it makes me cringe and feel sad.



I never feel like posting on the Zelda boards very much tbh. Maybe half the problem is that no matter what tidbit of information I have or any possible discovery I have it seems to fall on deaf ears. There aren't enough Zelda mains to take an interest in what we are trying to accomplish.

I frequent the Zelda boards because:
1) I main Zelda in brawl.
2) I use her tournaments on a (at the least) monthly bases.

I think their are maybe 1 or 2 others with that same criteria here. This to me is a problem but obviously one that cannot be fixed so simply, but maybe if the amount of negativity were softened it would allow more people to give Zelda a try. The Zelda boards are very very off-putting. I have heard this from tournament players who mention it while they are playing me as well... such things as "What's up with the Zelda boards?" and "The Zelda boards are freaky." I tell them if they have questions to ask me and not you guys since I don't think you people make a good impression.
For example: Since I suspect that if anyone asked how to deal with a meta as Zelda the answer would be play a better character, which is, A) Not what someone trying to main Zelda wants to hear, and B) Ridiculous.

*falls asleep*

 

[Kataefi]

So yeah as a mod here I have some stuff to say in response to everything! This post is sooo long and I can't believe I wrote it >.> Things written in pink are improvements I'm suggesting.

_

Firstly the reason I said not to specifically call out and name drop is because of the general sensitivity of this board. Someone says someone's name... and watch that person RUSH IN AND DEFEND THEMSELVES. It's all broken glass to me, one small step and bam! everyone's at each other's throats...

(I myself have posted in about 3 of those listed
threads, and barring the obvious one, it's possible that I am to blame
for those arguments. Maybe.)

I think there are times, and this may likely be the case with a few posters here, where you may attempt to troll and have a strong opinion at the same time... either one or the other, or both. So what you say comes across as very "this is my opinion, I'm not budging, and I never will, and everyone else is wrong wrong WRONG".

I think a good change would be if you were a little more accepting of another person's views - fair play on non-tourney goers, but decency on those that also attend tourneys.

The truth =/= negative. Zelda's a **** character, so most of the time, we'll be discussing her negatives because she's usually at a disadvantage. Get over it. If you'd rather talk about her positives, nobody's stopping you from posting -- just make sure you know what the hell you're talking about.

There's a difference in talking about the tools you have to soften the problems in a matchup than straight out saying "yeah she sucks..." Example time!

It's clear to everyone that Zelda is a load of crap.

That makes sense.

Zelda is ridiculously unfun to play.

That one move is better then half of Zelda's moveset.

*shrug* Zelda's a ****ty character. The sooner we all accept that she's not viable and that none of us should be using her for anything other than low tiers, the sooner we can say "**** that" and make it work regardless.

Lol, she is just bad with everyone

"Zelda is ****". I personally agree with this statement

The truth =/= negative. Zelda's a **** character

These aren't particularly helpful quotes. They've also come from a wide range of posters. One or two of these quotes were supplemented with good info - but the principle is simple. This **** is known, it has been known, and even if it comes with good info, that exact same good info can so easily exist without it. This is one of the MAIN reasons this community has a divide because people are broken-record posting tag along points over and over and over and over and over again when other people are trying to come up with ideas or try to intelligently argue a point across.

I'm tired of people screaming Zelda's a bad character.

I thought I'd never see the day to be honest! But you raise a point I definitely agree on. People already know she's a bad character.

As a complete fantasy analogy - a leader, in every speech they do, doesn't highlight the problems of their country, and then end or begin that speech with "OH! btw, this country is ****!" Just throwing this out there...

I say we should finally get together - let's work on this guide being written. Everyone is invited. Let's not rush it... let's break down exactly what we think is Zelda's metagame because there seems to be a BIG confusion here. Too much dtilt? Too many smashes? No one knows what they're doing. I think once we've established what a common metagame is for Zelda, everyone will know exactly what's good and bad with it... and this should eliminate "Hey everyone - just a quick reminder that Zelda's ****"... because we'll all be on a common ground. This is what I'm hoping for.

Let's also find out exactly what we want to achieve... let's use this research thread stickied to talk about fantasy frame advantages and potential setups, strategies and future growth. It was stickied by SamuraiPanda for a good reason. And let's have a new stickied guide to finally talk about the fundamentals, the basics, the core metagame. These two threads should work in harmony, and I think once we use them to their fullest extent we can start to build on things here.

Tired of people screaming match up ratios for characters they main.
Tired of people screaming telling me to play better people
tired of people thinking their EXP or contributions to the board makes what they say law.
Tired of getting infraction.

I think you'll find legendary that, with a little bit of finnesse in your posts, you might just raise a good point (at times). Sometimes you're a little abrupt, but I can now see your cause. You simply don't agree with some of the customs other posters have here, and you question them. This gets fully blown out into an argument, and you end up getting infracted.

I think a good change here would be to be a bit more tactful... don't think your opinion is absolute law because you don't agree. Also, your opinions are slightly out of the norm - this is why you need to be backing your opinions with GOOD experience and applications. Perhaps even videos of you playing the matchup would be useful to illustrate your points.

stuff

Pretty much everything you said is truth. You should really come here more often.

Specifically, this board has the wrong mix of people in general.

I sort of agree with this - I've been finding recently that apparently there is this notion that everyone here is striving for neutral matchups in every single matchup discussed because "we <3 Zelda she's the bestest", and that the whole majority of the board is filled with wifi and non-tourney players. The thing is... if you look in the threads that matter, there is some good contributions from tourney goers and tourney-experience people and that these actually represent the majority in these respective threads. The majority that everyone defines as bad, in this case, stick mainly to the social thread.

What I'm saying is, I feel we have potential to get a good bunch of posters posting in the threads that matter if we could only settle on our differences.

If it weren't for the rules of this thread I'd put it in wording I'd like to use, but that's hard to do. I don't know how much more obvious I can make this.

SoR if you could PM me your honest thoughts that would be great. For the sake of public viewing I don't want anyone being named and shamed. Sounds so scandalous!

@Zelda boards situation

I personally think avoiding name dropping isn't the best route at this point. People who can't really take hints stay oblivious while others get the feeling that they're the ones getting burned.

I agree! I thought for the sake of tact, we should avoid ganging up on some posters and not make them feel isolated, because this is still a public website for a kids game about princess zelda, and everyone is welcome! =p

But yeah I'd rather people name dropped anonymously... so they know there's a problem with them but they don't know who's saying it. People can PM me and I can say, as mod, what the general majority opinion is and I can probably say "@Person X ___ the general opinion of you is that you're too happy, could you tone the happiness down please".

_

This is what I've written so far. I'll respond to other stuff soon!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

My #1 problem with this board is MrEh's signature... it makes me cringe and feel sad.



I never feel like posting on the Zelda boards very much tbh. Maybe half the problem is that no matter what tidbit of information I have or any possible discovery I have it seems to fall on deaf ears. There aren't enough Zelda mains to take an interest in what we are trying to accomplish.

I frequent the Zelda boards because:
1) I main Zelda in brawl.
2) I use her tournaments on a (at the least) monthly bases.

I think their are maybe 1 or 2 others with that same criteria here. This to me is a problem but obviously one that cannot be fixed so simply, but maybe if the amount of negativity were softened it would allow more people to give Zelda a try. The Zelda boards are very very off-putting. I have heard this from tournament players who mention it while they are playing me as well... such things as "What's up with the Zelda boards?" and "The Zelda boards are freaky." I tell them if they have questions to ask me and not you guys since I don't think you people make a good impression.
For example: Since I suspect that if anyone asked how to deal with a meta as Zelda the answer would be play a better character, which is, A) Not what someone trying to main Zelda wants to hear, and B) Ridiculous.

*falls asleep*

For what it's worth I do want to hear your opinion on match ups since you seem to have a difference of opinion on some of the match ups. If you don't want to post them then maybe PM to me.

 

[GodAtHand]

I'll will definitely give my opinion on matchups when the time comes. It's just a matter of having enough time to write them and then making sure I say them in the way I meant to and a way that is actually coherent and understandable...

 

[GodAtHand]

Double posting because I feel it necessary.

I don't think the Zelda boards problems can be blamed on any one individual. Everyone here certainly provides their own from of usefullness, and I do like everyone here at least in some aspects. But on that note we truly don't mix well sometimes... Its like Ice cream, pickles, and ketchup, everything tasted awesome individually (besides ketchup and you know who you are ) but its horrible when mixed together...

 

[DTP]

I'm not ketchup, am I? D:
Ah, I don't like Pickles either.

I wanna be Ice Cream! :D



On Topic: You made great Points! I haven't been here on the Zelda boards long, and I haven't done much (lawl), but I'm up for some change if it's for the better


There seems to be a lot of arguments sometimes. I always see AL and Kaylo going at it for example. They may not always be arguments (Usually I don't read them), but maybe stuff like would be better if PM's were used?

No one likes to see a character board that are at each others necks (hahaha Peach boards).
Zelda boards aren't too bad in that regard, but from what I see we can still use some work overall.

 

[mountain_tiger]

No it doesn't.

I phrased that wrong. What I should have said was: 'Most of Zelda's character-specific ATs involve situational stuff'. Zelda actually has more char-specific ATs than a lot of characters, but to balance that they're much rarer to pull off.

Not to be rude, but..... are you just trying to +1 post count?

I wish we didn't have post counts... It reminds me that I come here far too much (bearing in mind I didn't start posting until March...)

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I'm just going to quickly mention that I support the idea of mentioning names. Otherwise we're just going to end up going around in circles with this thread.

It just requires everyone to accept the points mentioned and not to start yelling back saying how wrong or false the things mentioned are. I'm not saying that they wouldn't be allowed to explain their own perspective and to explain how they see things but that they shouldn't outright deny something unpleasant if everyone else agrees upon it. One's always blind to his own mistakes. If something that's not true is said about a person it's up to others to defend him.

That's what I think anyway.

 

[Kataefi]

What about dropping names to me via PM and then me summarising the collective thoughts of everyone about everyone in this thread? Sort of like anonymous name dropping.

I don't mind the idea of just calling people out... but in practise I'm expecting some kind of car crash.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Either one is fine with me, but if some people don't want an open name calling (not that there'd be anything wrong with that) the PM way is obviously the way to go.

I just think we desperately need some way to say straight what we think of others instead of having to hide behing expressions like "some people here."

 

[Elder Sister]

i havnt read through all the pages yet.
ill do that soon though, its just really sad that our board has such problems...
ill post my opinion later when i have more time.

 

[zeldspazz]

What about dropping names to me via PM and then me summarising the collective thoughts of everyone about everyone in this thread? Sort of like anonymous name dropping.

I don't mind the idea of just calling people out... but in practise I'm expecting some kind of car crash.

That doesnt sound like a bad idea...

 

[TLMSheikant]

I have a question to all of u zeldas. If you really think she sucks and is a char with no potential...then why do u use her? IMO she doesnt suck as much as you guys think.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I have a question to all of u zeldas. If you really think she sucks and is a char with no potential...then why do u use her? IMO she doesnt suck as much as you guys think.

I agree with you.

The pessimism in here is stifling.


Yes, Zelda is on the lower end of the characters, but MOST of her matchups are very manageable. Zelda mains had their heads in the clouds before, but now they are in the mire. The pendulum swings too far.

 

[DTP]

I have a question to all of u zeldas. If you really think she sucks and is a char with no potential...then why do u use her? IMO she doesnt suck as much as you guys think.

I think she's incredibly fun to use
I don't main her anymore, but I've always enjoyed how she plays.
<3 Lightning kicks

 

[KayLo!]

I was gonna respond to Kataefi's long post, but then I lost motivation. x.x

In summary: I think a lot of your points, in my own opinion/perspective/whatever, fall under my point of people getting hurt and crying over nothing. So what if I say Zelda's a ****ty character over and over and over? If it's true, it's true; if you'd rather not read it, just roll your eyes and move on. It shouldn't turn into this huge thing.

Usually when -- I'd even be bold enough to say every time -- I say Zelda's a ****ty character, it's not out of the blue, and I believe that would go for most of the posts you quoted. Most likely, people were being a little too optimistic or a little too ridiculous about what she could do in a certain situation, and they needed to be reminded, "umm, she doesn't have the options for that -- she's a bad character," at which point I or whoever said it would elaborate in more detail.

@Your defense of AL: All I can say about that is..... lolol. He has differing opinions? I'm confident in saying that 80% of the information he presents in this character forum is just plain wrong. Sorry for being the one to argue against him (and the one to speak the truth now), but I've told you before: I can't see false information spread on this board and not do anything about it, which is a large part of why I'm leaving after the guide is finished.

He's wrong a lot. People try to tell him he's wrong, and it takes fifty million pages of him not listening and debating badly and skipping over points before he semi-compromises and, in the process, has derailed the discussion. Btw, before you ask for examples: when I have time, I will be more than happy to find a whole list for you.

@The guide thing: We already have a team working on it. Uhh.... there's not really much for anybody else to do unless you guys want to write a separate guide, but that'd be pretty pointless. If someone wants to help with the one me and ~6-7 others have in progress, just PM me.

What about dropping names to me via PM and then me summarising the collective thoughts of everyone about everyone in this thread? Sort of like anonymous name dropping.

I don't mind the idea of just calling people out... but in practise I'm expecting some kind of car crash.

Honestly, I'd rather know exactly who's saying what about me. If it's an anonymous group of people saying stuff, it's a lot more offensive and intimidating, and it makes everybody look like a bunch of *****es who can't back up their own opinions.

At least when it comes to me, I'd appreciate it if people were honest and open and didn't hide behind anonymous quotes.

If you really think she sucks and is a char with no potential...then why do u use her?

She's fun to use, and it feels good to beat someone when you're at a disadvantage.

She also does decently well in low tiers and isn't that bad in doubles with the right teammate.

I agree with Hedgedawg that most of her MUs are manageable, but only if you're playing ~C/D tier or below. Once you get above that, her MUs get steadily worse and worse, and more importantly: those are the characters most common in the tournament scene.

She may have a bunch of great low-tier MUs, but unless you're in a low tier tournament, you're never going to see those characters. You're going to see MKs and Snakes and DDDs and Olimars and Diddys and Falcos and whatever other high/top tier characters are popular in your region.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Even among the top tiers, only about half of those matchups are really bad.

She makes a completely competent secondary.

And if you main Zelda/Sheik, the gender-bending duo does even better.

 

[KayLo!]

Even among the top tiers, only about half of those matchups are really bad.

Depends on what you consider "really bad." Personally, I disagree. Against pro players, or even just high-level ones, the top tiers will run you over. Quite frankly, Zelda is nothing to them -- except for ICs, and DDD is manageable (buuuuut still not in her favor ).

EDIT: I'll even give you Diddy as "manageable."

And if you main Zelda/Sheik, the gender-bending duo does even better.

Well, I don't play Sheik, but props to people who do.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

@Your defense of AL: All I can say about that is..... lolol. He has differing opinions? I'm confident in saying that 80% of the information he presents in this character forum is just plain wrong. Sorry for being the one to argue against him (and the one to speak the truth now), but I've told you before: I can't see false information spread on this board and not do anything about it, which is a large part of why I'm leaving after the guide is finished.

He's wrong a lot. People try to tell him he's wrong, and it takes fifty million pages of him not listening and debating badly and skipping over points before he semi-compromises and, in the process, has derailed the discussion. Btw, before you ask for examples: when I have time, I will be more than happy to find a whole list for you.

80% of what I say is false? If you say so.

 

[KayLo!]

Not 80% of what you say -- 80% of the information you present. As in, "facts."

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Depends on what you consider "really bad." Personally, I disagree. Against pro players, or even just high-level ones, the top tiers will run you over. Quite frankly, Zelda is nothing to them -- except for ICs, and DDD is manageable (buuuuut still not in her favor ).

EDIT: I'll even give you Diddy as "manageable."



Well, I don't play Sheik, but props to people who do.

You're still not taking into account the skill gap between a pro and high level players vs Zelda. You're assuming facts and passing it off to be true. Unless of course you consider yourself a pro or a high level player. Also I brought this up to you before about the difference in skill level between you and TUSM and how match ups should be considered about players on an equal level and you respond that you'll never find two players on the same level.

Rarely will two people be of equal skill. That's too much to ask, especially when barely anybody plays Zelda in the first place. That doesn't mean I can't use my experiences to add to the technical knowledge I have.

So you're still arguing match ups from the stand point of the other opponent being pro or high level was someone that casually uses Zelda. Like I said already if you're going to discuss the match ups then assume both players know the match up and discuss the characters tools.

 

[KayLo!]

*sigh* This is the kind of unnecessary, misunderstanding, derailing-the-conversation stuff we don't need in discussions.

You're still not taking into account the skill gap between a pro and high level players vs Zelda. You're assuming facts and passing it off to be true. Unless of course you consider yourself a pro or a high level player. Also I brought this up to you before about the difference in skill level between you and TUSM and how match ups should be considered about players on an equal level and you respond that you'll never find two players on the same level.

First: I've already addressed the skill gap between TUSM and I, which isn't terribly large to begin with. He's definitely better, but he's not ******** amounts better than I am, so you can stop bringing it up like we're leagues apart.

Second: "You're still not taking into account the skill gap between a pro and high level players vs Zelda." What? In a matchup discussion, you're assuming that for the sake of the MU, both players are at the highest level, including the Zelda. That is what the final ratio represents.

But in discussion, when people use their experiences to supplement their knowledge of the matchup, it's very rare that two people at the top of each character's metagames will have played. We gotta work with what we have, and realistically, when two REAL people play, there is probably a skill gap of some sort (hopefully just a small one). This especially goes for Zelda since there are so few of us relative to other characters -- even less at a tournament level.

- The final MU ratio ASSUMES both players are at the top of each character's metagame.
- However, in discussion, we can only use theory, technical knowledge, and experience/observation from REAL matches, where there is most likely going to be a skill gap.

Trust me, if TUSM was a pro and I knew I was a crap Zelda (or vice versa), I wouldn't use my matches to support my arguments. However, we're both solid players. Are we the best of the best? No. I never said we were. But we're good enough that it gave me what I consider a fairly solid grasp on the MU -- enough that I feel as though I have something to offer to the discussion. (That doesn't mean I think my word is law; I was really interested in Veggie's and Mikey's points of view, in fact, which is why I asked them questions to get more out of them.)

I hope you understand what I'm saying, because this debate is ridiculous. -_-

So you're still arguing match ups from the stand point of the other opponent being pro or high level was someone that casually uses Zelda.

No. I dunno where you got that from, but I never said that.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Kaylo you're wrong.

 

[KayLo!]

*eye roll* I'm going to assume you're joking. Really.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Kaylo you're wrong.

Nice reasoning you got there, champ.

This argument is getting us nowhere. We may as well just cool it.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Nice reasoning you got there, champ.

This argument is getting us nowhere. We may as well just cool it.

I know it's getting no where. Kaylo will just argue all my post so instead of posting a long wall of text that she'll just argue I'll felt as though that would be a good way to end the argument.

 

[KayLo!]

I give up. I really do.

AL, I decided to read your posts in this one thread because I honestly wanted to at least find some middle ground or compromise or whatever. Tbqh, having you on ignore is ****ing annoying since you post so often, and it makes a thread hard to follow when half the posts are ignored.

But I just gave you a SOLID ****ing argument to counter yours, and the best you can come up with is "you're wrong, I don't wanna argue because you'll just argue back." Please, someone else tell me where I'm wrong in my last post, because I think I made a pretty **** intelligent, well put together response to him.

@Kataefi: This is why I get so frustrated. This is a PERFECT example.

@AL: I'm sorry, I really did try, but I'mma have to deal with the annoyance of having someone on ignore. I really just.... give up.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i must be bored cause i read through everything.

but i think everyone else has already pointed out things i agree with are wrong w/ this board. so i don't have to post anything.

i just kinda lurk around this place like the other boards cause i can never contribute much. i rarely play on even wifi now and not even against many people and im practically god to my offline friends and too poor to go to tournies....

anyway im gonna go back to lurking now.

 

[Kataefi]

God the stuff I have to type out >.>

@Legendary:

>.>
<.<
>.<

If you're going to end an argument, end it with a point and kindly say you're not going to respond anymore. The reason you're getting infracted in arguments is because of your general attitude in the way you type and the way you put your arguments across! Surely you've figured that out by now????

Also... you do have opposing opinions in a lot of discussions we have. People here are basically saying that you need to start proving your points, especially when you get into an argument.

@Kaylo: Yeah I do see what you mean. It's why I've always been infracting him and not you because you're posting good stuff.

At the other stuff - I think you missed a bit of my point. The point is... when people say something such as "I think Zelda has these sorts of tools to deal with this"... they're greeted with a "NO - she's a **** character, therefore she doesn't have these tools," often with little reason.

Now if someone came into a discussion and said "Zelda is amazing! She rocks!" then I'd expect people to use those sorts of token phrases and one liners and be like "no she really doesn't, she's actually quite ****". That's totally respectable and understandable imo and I certainly invite that!

But that usually isn't the case. Usually these phrases come out of nowhere, are unhelpful to the discussion, and don't come with a balance of alternatives. I admit, the ones that do come with a balance I shouldn't have picked up on so harshly. But the principles are still there, take out the 2 posts that are out of context and I can replace them with another 20, very easily, and in the context I'm talking about. You and I had a discussion about this way back and you agreed with me.

@Everyone: It's obvious, from reading the debates that go on here, that this general flavour is something people are reacting to, and this reaction is causing debates. Who specifically is reacting and causing trouble? AlmostLegendary...

As a mod of this board... I'd love to see no more mindless debates. My whole point is that the debates wouldn't even start in the first place if we cut out anti-zelda one liners and just post genuine stuff that we think. In our genuine posts, we can always say there how we think Zelda's a bad character, but the one liners have to go.

Zelda vs X??? I'll probably go about saying the tools she has, the tools she doesn't have, but I won't be comfortably slipping in the usual "I think Zelda is FANTASTIC!" statement anywhere at all... neither will I say "Oh btw she's terrible and everyone needs to know that!" No one has any authority saying those things here because, well, no one here is experienced enough. And people are reacting to that and causing debates.

It's simple - we cut it out, we cut out the debates. We carry on, we carry on arguing. Because it's clear there's differences in opinion, and we're all too stubborn to accept that. That's basically everything in a nutshell. It's basically everything I said in the OP again but people aren't getting it >.>

SOLUTIONS:

• Cut out extremist crap and watch the arguments die and good discussion flow, finally.
• OR... carry on as normal but make bloody sure you're all on each other's ignore lists.

_

Guys, I understand some of you want to be very open about stuff regarding name dropping. But I still stand by doing it anonymously unless this view is totally unanimous. Look at the debates that have already occurred in this thread... how many people feel agitated by that? That's with namedropping... and moderate namedropping at that... think what it would be like if everyone was allowed to freely say their piece.

 

[KayLo!]

Usually these phrases come out of nowhere, are unhelpful to the discussion, and don't come with a balance of alternatives. I admit, the ones that do come with a balance I shouldn't have picked up on so harshly. But the principles are still there, take out the 2 posts that are out of context and I can replace them with another 20, very easily, and in the context I'm talking about. You and I had a discussion about this way back and you agreed with me.

We did, and I still do agree that one-liner "Zelda sucks" posts are pretty useless and have no place in a discussion thread.

(The social thread is another story -- imo, anything goes there, and anybody who says "Zelda's a **** character" there is usually saying it in a lighthearted manner. And even if they aren't, oh well, it's a social.)

As far as I know, I haven't done the one-liner thing in a proper discussion, so..... *shrug*

I brought it up because I've been called out (most notably by AL) for "screaming" that Zelda sucks when, afaik, I've never done so in a MU/stage/whatever thread without backing myself up with valid points relevant to the discussion. I've also never said it completely out of the blue; on the contrary, I only say it when I'm countering a post that I feel overestimates her.

But fine. For the sake of board unity until I peace outta here, I won't say Zelda sucks anymore. Hooray.

 

[Brinzy]

Would I get banned if I posted everyone's name and summed up what I believe their issues are in an attempt to get us started with the purging? Note that I'd be including myself and I wouldn't be harsh.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves

Kataefi has taken the time to make this thread in an effort to fix the hostile nature of this board and you've pretty much ignored the idea of the thread and gone back to petty bickering which pollutes your threads

Really, just don't be so agressive with each other. Slagging someone off isn't clever and doesn't prove your point, its just irritating and causes conflict and gets in the way of discussion

Can't you guys be open to other peoples opinions and accept the fact that...you know, maybe sometimes you're wrong? Its not embarrasing or anything, people make mistakes. It is embarrasing however when you've attempted to ridicule everyone to prove your point and then it turns out you're completely wrong (for example when you get stuck in a certain situation)

I appreciate you probably don't like the fact of someone randomly popping in telling you what to do but I've seen this situation countless times *points to my Main* and nothing good ever comes of it. If anything, this is just an insult to Kata and shows your lack of respect for your fellow mains


I really hope you guys sort this out soon cause your research thread is seriously impressive and just proves what you can do if you all pool your ideas together and be open to other peoples opinions

 

[Darkmusician]

mistake post

 

[MrEh]

I have a question to all of u zeldas. If you really think she sucks and is a char with no potential...then why do u use her?

Is it wrong to use a character because people like the character? So many people use Ganon and Falcon. They certainly don't play them because they're good, they play them because they're awesome.

IMO she doesnt suck as much as you guys think.

That's because you don't use Zelda as much as the people here do.

Even among the top tiers, only about half of those matchups are really bad.

MK 20-80
Snake 30-70
Wario 35-65
Falco 35-65
Diddy 40-60
Dedede 40-60
Marth 35-65
Gdub 25-75
Pikachu 40-60
Olimar 10-90
ROB 40-60

No.

She makes a completely competent secondary.

She is not a competent secondary when more then half the cast is a better character then her. Unless you're using her for something specific, like the IC, but even then there are better choices. Zelda is mediocre even in specific matchups, because there will always be something better.

And if you main Zelda/Sheik, the gender-bending duo does even better.

That's because Sheik is better then Zelda.

80% of what I say is false? If you say so.

It's not an exact number, obviously. (if that wasn't apparent to you already)

However, it's pretty clear that a lot of the information you state is, for he most part, misguided. Or dare I say it, flat out stupid.

Would I get banned if I posted everyone's name and summed up what I believe their issues are in an attempt to get us started with the purging? Note that I'd be including myself and I wouldn't be harsh.

I like this idea. No sense beating around the bush ya know? I suggest that this be allowed.

 

[zeldspazz]

I like this idea. No sense beating around the bush ya know? I suggest that this be allowed.

I second that. We just gotta make sure we're mature about it.

 

[-Mars-]

Stuff wrong with this board.

We have gay guys and girls.......what do you expect lmao.

People get infracted for silly things.

People calling out peoples regions. Honestly DM placing 3rd or 4th in his ****ty region is not much different from me placing 5th in my ****ty region or somebody placing below 20 in their good region. If they go to tournaments it's a good possibility that they have some intelligence on their character and their matchups.

People announcing they are leaving the board or putting people on ignore. That does nothing but give off a negative vibe. If you're gonna leave then just do it. If you're gonna put someone on ignore......just do it.

Claiming there aren't enough tournament Zeldas. I can name like 8 off the top of my head and have run into 2 more in real life that nobody has heard about plus seen videos of several others. Claiming that there aren't tournament Zeldas is really misinforming others.

Flaming people for opinions.

People who have even said themselves that they don't use Zelda in tournaments making up the majority of discussions. AL, Kaylo, HSS, Zeldspazz, MrEh, Kataefi etc. lmao.

Really like their is no reason for anyone serious about Zelda such as myself to come to this board because people who have this abundance of Zelda knowledge supposedly know all and anything you say is ludicrous.

 

[zeldspazz]

Yeah Marsulas, I actually did have a discussion with Kaylo about 1-2 weeks ago after that mega drama moment in the social thread that I probably wouldnt be giving information on MUs and such anymore since its true. We dont have the knowledge. Which is why I wish DarkM, Riot, Snakee, etc. would come here more often and tell us and give us knowledge of the matchup so we dont pass around wrong info. But, I mean, if they dont, then what will MUs discussions become? If you see what I mean. Im all for staying out these discussions and letting people who actually know what theyre talking about take charge.