attempt at matchup thread

[Dylan_Tnga]

Yes, i have become sick of this community...can you blame me?...really?

you're from newfoundland

I just don't post if im bored of smash

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

dk has a throw -> giant punch combo on samus as well XD

DK vs Samus would be ++ for dk I think

 

[Superstar]

Good to know. + or ++ then.

I don't post if I'm bored of posting.

We should make a new thread, and post all current arguments in the first post. I dunno, to keep tabs.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I agree with boomfan, Samus takes way too long to kill DK, and Giant punch combos or other combos work way to well, also DK can space a whole lot better than samus, and on DL, its even worse --
Also, Samus is only good vs Floaties.....or light characters (as in Ness, Jigglypuff, Yoshi (slightly), and moderately Luigi).

for Yoshi, Yoshi has a LOT of combos vs DK and I am not just talking about the up tilt to DJC down air (which seems like you guys think is yoshi's only combo). Yoshi can up tilt into DJC jup air and this combos DK better than down air any day. up tilt djc up air up tilt djc up air djc up air back air. Most good people (which this tier list is basically based on) can DI well out of Yoshi's down air so I barely even use it anymore. Also, DK does not have that many moves to gimp Yoshi's double jump. None of his aerials are quick or have multiple hits which are necessary to gimp Yoshi. Also, DK does not have a projectile so DK can't camp unlike other characters. if anything, the only problem is the Cargo throw trap which works even better vs Ness and Yoshi due to their weird double jump.
55-45 Yoshi or 60-40 Yoshi. I have played way too many good DK's to know this matchup. so + or =

Falcon vs Fox: This is my least favorite matchup to play as falcon. Probably his worst matchup or worst matchup (after or before Mario). Laser camping works incredibly well and fox's aerials combo Falcon way too well. Lasers prevent all of Falcon's approach moves. This matchup is probably closer on DL because there is less room to camp and more room for Falcon to gimp. 65:35 or maybe even 70-30 (since HC is so incredibly popular, DL does not even matter ). - or --, inclined towards -

 

[DemonicInfluence]

DK vs Samus - I think DK has a slight advantage because of the giant punch madness, but campy samus is just annoying with about the same range as DK in Bairs and she is hard to combo due to uber floatiness.

DK vs Yoshi- I think Yoshi has an advantage here. Invincibility frames > DK edgeguard. And Yoshi's DJC is pretty deadly against DK.

Falcon vs Fox- I hate this matchup as Falcon. Fox is just a massive pain to deal with. Laser spam is really annoying and fox's combos just destroy falcon. Falcon can get some easy combos, but it's hard to get started due to laser spam. On dreamland, it's more even with slight advantage falcon due to laser spamming not being so powerful anymore. Overall, I would say 60-40 Fox for this matchup. I don't know where people get the idea that they are pretty equal in matchup

 

[Superstar]

Most, most everyone says:

DK vs Samus: +/++ [I know this is what you meant Koro ]
DK vs Yoshi: -
Falcon vs Fox: =/-

I dunno the second well myself, but I'm mostly convinced on the other 2. Morso the first.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I never said Falcon vs Fox was even.

The only matchup here I do know is the DK vs Yoshi matchup. Yoshi has too much going for him in this, from combos to double jump invincibility, etc. plus I'd say DK is the easiest character for Yoshi to combo due to his incredible size.

Also, just wondering (not related to the matchup chart):

If DK attempts his cargo infinite, but the opponent does not wiggle out, what happens? Is DK forced to throw, or is the opponent forced to wiggle out? i.e. who would be called for stalling?

 

[Winston]

dk has a throw -> giant punch combo on samus as well XD

DK vs Samus would be ++ for dk I think

Lol boom you're the man. You save us all a lot of discussion when you post.
Yeah Samus is really bad >.>

Good to know. + or ++ then.

I don't post if I'm bored of posting.

We should make a new thread, and post all current arguments in the first post. I dunno, to keep tabs.

I don't know, I feel like we have a decent thing going here and making a new thread would mess that up... maybe...

I agree with boomfan, Samus takes way too long to kill DK, and Giant punch combos or other combos work way to well, also DK can space a whole lot better than samus, and on DL, its even worse --
Also, Samus is only good vs Floaties.....or light characters (as in Ness, Jigglypuff, Yoshi (slightly), and moderately Luigi).

for Yoshi, Yoshi has a LOT of combos vs DK and I am not just talking about the up tilt to DJC down air (which seems like you guys think is yoshi's only combo). Yoshi can up tilt into DJC jup air and this combos DK better than down air any day. up tilt djc up air up tilt djc up air djc up air back air. Most good people (which this tier list is basically based on) can DI well out of Yoshi's down air so I barely even use it anymore. Also, DK does not have that many moves to gimp Yoshi's double jump. None of his aerials are quick or have multiple hits which are necessary to gimp Yoshi. Also, DK does not have a projectile so DK can't camp unlike other characters. if anything, the only problem is the Cargo throw trap which works even better vs Ness and Yoshi due to their weird double jump.
55-45 Yoshi or 60-40 Yoshi. I have played way too many good DK's to know this matchup. so + or =

Falcon vs Fox: This is my least favorite matchup to play as falcon. Probably his worst matchup or worst matchup (after or before Mario). Laser camping works incredibly well and fox's aerials combo Falcon way too well. Lasers prevent all of Falcon's approach moves. This matchup is probably closer on DL because there is less room to camp and more room for Falcon to gimp. 65:35 or maybe even 70-30 (since HC is so incredibly popular, DL does not even matter ). - or --, inclined towards -

DK vs Samus - I think DK has a slight advantage because of the giant punch madness, but campy samus is just annoying with about the same range as DK in Bairs and she is hard to combo due to uber floatiness.

DK vs Yoshi- I think Yoshi has an advantage here. Invincibility frames > DK edgeguard. And Yoshi's DJC is pretty deadly against DK.

Falcon vs Fox- I hate this matchup as Falcon. Fox is just a massive pain to deal with. Laser spam is really annoying and fox's combos just destroy falcon. Falcon can get some easy combos, but it's hard to get started due to laser spam. On dreamland, it's more even with slight advantage falcon due to laser spamming not being so powerful anymore. Overall, I would say 60-40 Fox for this matchup. I don't know where people get the idea that they are pretty equal in matchup

Yoshi having really good combos does not mean he wins vs DK. I know about Yoshi DJC uair, it ***** DK. But DK seriously can hold his own still, he has things that work against Yoshi. I'm pretty sure he can gimp Yoshi fairly well just by giant punching his recovery from a backthrow or an fthrow > spike. Dashdance grab game with DK's range works well vs Yoshi.

Yoshi seems to have some sort of edge, but I'm not sure if it's enough of one to move beyond the = range.

As far as Falcon vs Fox...

Really, you guys think he has it that bad vs Fox?

the lasers really aren't THAT bad for falcon because of his speed. Falcon has a pretty good edge over fox on Dreamland. Fox has an edge on Hyrule. And @ KoroBeniki: Dreamland DOES matter because in tournament, Hyrule would not appear more often than Dreamland would unless the Falcon player counterpicks it for some reason. In fact, of the tournament stages I feel like only Saffron and Hyrule would be in Fox's favor. (I don't have much Saffron experience so I'm not sure about that one). DK's and Peach's castle are both small stages.

man, listing Falcon's worst two matchups as Mario and Fox is just bizarre.

 

[Superstar]

Yeah, where's Pikachu.

Mario seems like he'd give more trouble than Fox. Fireballs are less annoying than lasers, I can tell, but he can't do as much crap on Mario as he can do Fox. But, Mario can't combo Falcon as well as Fox, jsut gimp him better. But that's for later.

And Blue, I meant overall. I never said you said it was equal.

Also, even if Fox has a slight advantage, it can be even. It depends by how much is that advantage. A completely perfect neutral match, well...those aren't really that common. I'm more inclined to = for that matchup.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I don't know who is making the pictoral version of this chart, or if someone volunteered to do it, but could we make it and add onto it as we go? I think that would be easier than having to search though the past posts for the decided results. Also lets us easily see our past decisions easily. Just a suggestion... I think it would make it more convenient, but then again, it isn't necessary until the entire roster is completed.

 

[Winston]

I don't know who is making the pictoral version of this chart, or if someone volunteered to do it, but could we make it and add onto it as we go? I think that would be easier than having to search though the past posts for the decided results. Also lets us easily see our past decisions easily. Just a suggestion... I think it would make it more convenient, but then again, it isn't necessary until the entire roster is completed.

Superstar said he'd do it... I dunno how that's coming along. More specifically he said he'd make a program that would draw the chart.

I'm keeping track of what we have so far, just not pictorally >.>

Hey Superstar if you're not doing it anymore I can still do it

another problem is that I don't have control of the original post, and as far as I know the OP doesn't check here that often.

 

[Superstar]

I can still do it, but by the time it's decent this would already be done. It's moving faster and smoother than I thought.

Just save the result. Right now I have to add saving and opening the save, so meh.

And about the control, that's why I said make a new thread.

 

[SageMeson]

I reckon:

DK vs Samus: +

DK vs Yoshi: -

Falcon vs Fox: = (slight edge to fox but not enough to make it -. Falcon combos fox well too and imo has a better recovery) This is a crucial matchup for competitive play though so i think we should take our time with it.

and yeah u can make a new thread if u want or u could just send me any updates u want posted if thats easier. whatever

 

[Surri-Sama]

I reckon:

DK vs Samus: +

DK vs Yoshi: -

Falcon vs Fox: = (slight edge to fox but not enough to make it -. Falcon combos fox well too and imo has a better recovery) This is a crucial matchup for competitive play though so i think we should take our time with it.

and yeah u can make a new thread if u want or u could just send me any updates u want posted if thats easier. whatever

Lol look at this random guy take charge!

wewwwwt!!!

 

[Superstar]

Fox's recovery is better than Falcon by a little.

Still gets ***** by Falcon though, so it makes little difference in that matchup.

 

[NixxxoN]

Fox's recovery is better than Falcon by a little.

Still gets ***** by Falcon though, so it makes little difference in that matchup.

I think they are even.

Falcons up+b is pretty good, can avoid spikes sometimes

 

[Superstar]

Only thing I know that Fox can use to spike in that matchup is the shine, which as far as I know is more for flash. 0.o

Didn't have to quote that. I was mostly correcting Meson. He said Falcon's recovery is better than Fox's. But...Falcon's UpB is only good as a combo finisher [though Gustav used it as a very awkward parry against me, UpB and jerk a bit away to make me miss, then hit me with it]. As a recovery it's one of the most horrid.

But like, I said. Recovery differences mean little in this matchup. Personally, Falcon edgeguards better by a wee bit, but has a slightly worse recovery. So maybe it balances out.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I'm guessing we have lots of people who play fox and falcon here... why not test it out? record the matches and we can discuss it from there. Just like we did with DK and Ness. I don't play either, so don't look at me

 

[Winston]

I don't really think either of them has enough of an advantage in terms of edgeguarding. I'm pretty sure a good player with either fox or falcon will not let the other character back to the edge a significant amount of the time. (this doesn't include me, I mess up too often >.>)

I think people are mostly citing lasers as the reason Fox has an advantage, whereas I think Falcon can work around them... I have a falcon v fox laser spacing theory but I'm not too sure how effective it is...

Haha, I've played wenbo's fox a LOT. I've seen the things he can do to falcon when he's playing well. But, I'm up for playing people to learn more about the matchup.

also, up B mindgames are awesome ^__^ just as long as you don't spam them. If you have a platform to land on it's usually safe if you miss also

 

[†¹Ãgøn¥¹†]

Falcon > Fox, pretty sure.

Fox combos are easier to di out then falcon's combos.

 

[Superstar]

I personally don't think Fox has an advantage, I think it's even. Any advantage lasers would give is slight.

Eh, I've heard otherwise Agony. How Fox can adapt to the opponent's DI the best. No real info on that though.

DK v Yoshi is what I'm ? about.

 

[Winston]

I personally don't think Fox has an advantage, I think it's even. Any advantage lasers would give is slight.

Eh, I've heard otherwise Agony. How Fox can adapt to the opponent's DI the best. No real info on that though.

DK v Yoshi is what I'm ? about.

Yeah me too... I'm almost postitive Falcon v Fox is effectively even for our purposes, it's just that everyone seemed to want to discuss falcon vs fox. DK > Samus is pretty evident (though + or ++ is debatable I guess, I'm inclined to go with +), but DK vs Yoshi?

@ SageMeson:

I would be happy to make my own thread if you pm craigg to get this one closed. Having both open at once would be bad, I think.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I say DK vs Yoshi is - (slight advantage Yoshi). DK is way too easy to combo, and DK's range isn't that big a problem (parry with double jump invincibility, followed by combos). It's near impossible for DK to edgeguard Yoshi (double jump invincibility), while Yoshi's Fair spike can easily kill DK even during his up-B. Just my opinion.

DK can do some things to Yoshi as well. Don't know what they are, since I don't play as DK, but I'd still say it's advantage Yoshi. If DK really can't do much to Yoshi, I'd say it's --, but for now, I'm leaning on just -.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dk vs samus : ++ to DK for obvious reasons.

DK vs Yoshi : - to DK (I dont know this matchup, at all)

Fox vs Falcon : = first hit gets the stock, or a ridiculous ammount of comboage.

 

[Winston]

I say DK vs Yoshi is - (slight advantage Yoshi). DK is way too easy to combo, and DK's range isn't that big a problem (parry with double jump invincibility, followed by combos). It's near impossible for DK to edgeguard Yoshi (double jump invincibility), while Yoshi's Fair spike can easily kill DK even during his up-B. Just my opinion.

DK can do some things to Yoshi as well. Don't know what they are, since I don't play as DK, but I'd still say it's advantage Yoshi. If DK really can't do much to Yoshi, I'd say it's --, but for now, I'm leaning on just -.

Lol everyone can combo DK (except samus, poor samus)

have fun parrying grab with double jump invincibility...

DK can edgeguard with Giant Punch, or he can just backthrow or fthrow spike Yoshi at medium-high percents and that makes you use enough of your jump that he can edgeguard normally.

Still not convinced until I hear from someone who isn't basing their assessment off mostly speculation. >.>

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I said in a previous post that I don't know DK, so I'd be posting what the opposing character can do (to the best of my knowledge), and other people can fill in the gaps / edit. I don't play enough high level people to be able to make an accurate description, so I'm saying what I know about the characters I use. Don't take my opinions as the absolute truth, and if someone says something against what I say and I don't respond, then they are probably right.

Basically: I don't have enough high level experience

There. I admit it lol

 

[Winston]

I said in a previous post that I don't know DK, so I'd be posting what the opposing character can do (to the best of my knowledge), and other people can fill in the gaps / edit. I don't play enough high level people to be able to make an accurate description, so I'm saying what I know about the characters I use. Don't take my opinions as the absolute truth, and if someone says something against what I say and I don't respond, then they are probably right.

Basically: I don't have enough high level experience

There. I admit it lol

Yeah, it wasn't directed only at you, just it seemed like everyone was basically saying what you said there so I responded to address all of that.

I think all of us who've given input on this matchup so far (including me) know more about what Yoshi can do to DK than vice versa; that's why I'm trying to wait for some input on DK before we decide/move on.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Where's boom when you need him He plays DK. He could give a good answer for us.

Also, looking at the last bunch of posts, it looks like it's just me and you here, with a few occasional posts by other people. Hopefully people are still interested in making the matchup chart...

One thing I would probably suggest that would encourage more people to take part is still do the three matchups at a time, but make it 6 different characters. That way, more people would be able to put input at once, as there is more likely to be a matchup they know or can provide input. It showed with DK, since not many people play as DK, so not many knew the matchups.

Edit: and if this looks dead, make a new thread and have the up-to-date chart on the first post. A new thread will attract more attention, and having the chart will not only let us see what we've done so far, but also let those wanting to know what the matchup is see what we decided it being. If this thread is not dead, keep it until it dies down.

 

[Deleted member]

Falcon vs Fox

This is a close matchup but I'd give the edge to Fox. Both have amazing gimps and combos on each other but Fox has a bit more control due to his lasers and his recovery is also slightly better. Those lasers are really a great pain for Falcon's approach given the relative height of Falcon and the ability to play keep away with Fox using those lasers. They really allow you to control the flow of the match more and not using them lets Falcon run around freely and not have to jump around, shield, force an approach, or hide from your lasers (unless they want to rack up percentage.) Smarter falcons can find a way around this but the lasers still affect Falcon's gameplay. Falcon's height doesn't really help him out either. How is Fox's recovery slightly better? Well, if you recover high with Fox and high with Falcon, you have much more maneuverability with Fox which lets you trick the opponent better than you possibly can with Falcon, who really has barely any horizontal movement after he does his UP-B.

Fox's hit stun is lower and his "clash-stun," where two high priority moves hit each other and cause a block on both sides is much lowers than Falcon's as well, allowing Fox to immediately counter attack really quickly.

This really is a very close matchup and I feel that the better player will often win unless one of them gets really unlucky. The ease of using Falcon makes people think Falcon has the advantage in roughly the mid-level but once you get to higher levels where Fox combos really efficiently the matchup swings slightly in Fox's favor. As for DI-ing out of Fox's combos, this is really rare unless the Fox player you are facing is a down-air *****, many of Fox's combos aren't really DI-able to the extent that you can minimize damage by a lot; in fact, there are times where unless you have hacker DI, you have no way to escape his very linkable combos (especially on Falcon)

As for the dreamland matchup, I find that while Falcon can get to Fox more quickly and has better gay options, Fox can also gimp really easily also. Lasers can also be semi-spammed by simply running off platforms, turnaround laser them in the face. You can also full jump and double laser them as well while landing on the platform.

fox 54-46 falcon

In Falcon's defense, on the otherhand, Falcon's simple dash to up smash can sometimes work against laser spam because Falcon slightly ducks while running and sometimes you can actually make it to them before they even fire off a laser or they whiff. I feel that this is really the Fox's fault, however, when this happens

Also, Mario can combo Falcon almost as well as Fox. If you move accordingly to Falcon's DI while you down-air, up-air, repeat to up-tilt --> up-air x# -> finisher aerial, you pretty much got him down when you start this cycle. In some cases, while Fox can't always kill from 0 to death on level ground, Mario can accomplish this at a higher frequency. The only difference is its a bit harder for Mario to start up a combo compared to Fox.

Falcon messes up and gets eaten by the Mario down-air to up-air --> Falcon loses a stock.


I don't really agree that DK has a crazy advantage on Samus. Probably a little. DK is probably one of Samus's better matchups of the entire cast. Samus doesn't have a hard time edgeguarding DK due to her easy to use spike and down-angled forward-smash. You could arguably say that DK can knock Samus really far away with Up-B off the stage but Samus can down-air while recovering, this can cause at least a trade or a spike down for DK causing DK to trade or waste a stock. DK's homosexual bounce off wall to regrab move also doesn't work as well on Samus compared to a large majority of the cast due to Samus's weird floaty yet heavy weight

Samus's game is really just knocking Donkey Kong off (and its not that hard to do, considering how fat Donkey Kong is) and edgeguarding or building enough percent to do down-air to back-air. Shield pressuring with down-air and stuff is also decent against Donkey Kong because of Donkey Kong's somewhat pathetic shield in comparison to his body. The amount of situational combos also rises for Samus due to Donkey Kong not flying very far from hits leading to some more aerial hits and tech chases.

Even if its slightly DK favored, I feel that the better person would win.

55 DK - 45 Samus





edit: part of the fail of this topic is the fact that some people simply go yah this guy ***** this char without giving actual valid reasons (or too little for suggesting a horrible matchup, one reason isn't enough). You really have to show why you think a certain character beats a certain character or else this topic is useless which sux cause I think this game is better discussed through matchups rather than tiers

 

[Superstar]

Hey, at least I say that I'm not sure.

I do agree though, so both DKvSamus and FalconvFox are pretty much = or +/- depending on how far they have an advantage.

About hitstun being lower though, there is a theory I have on that, untested though, might as well say it. How hitstun is a formula of % rather than knockback [with maybe a move dependant constant]. Let's say Falcon and Samus get knocked the same distance. Samus will have much lower % therefore, less hitstun despite the same knockback. It's similar to how Brawl does it, the hitstun increases with %, whcih can be tested with Fox's dair->anything.

Between Fox and Falcon, Fox is lighter. At the same knockback he'll be a bit lighter. Both usmash and weight are lower for Fox [Fox's weight = Mario and Luigi]. Either way though, whatever the reason, he still has less hitstun.

 

[Winston]

Okay so, Falcon/Fox even, DK vs Samus + or = ... but what about DK vs Yoshi? T__T

edit: part of the fail of this topic is the fact that some people simply go yah this guy ***** this char without giving actual valid reasons (or too little for suggesting a horrible matchup, one reason isn't enough). You really have to show why you think a certain character beats a certain character or else this topic is useless which sux cause I think this game is better discussed through matchups rather than tiers

Yeah I really try to avoid doing that... Half the input in this thread ends up being not very useful because of "X > Y, *once sentence explanation*".

 

[NixxxoN]

Falcon vs Fox, pretty close matchup.
I can say that you once hit fox with the usmash, hes already on 100%+ if you can do the generic combo of course.
On the other hand its harder for fox to put Falcon on a 100%+

 

[Superstar]

What the? As far as I know, you can put Falcon up there with a dtilt, utilt, dair, fair, nair, maybe bair. Or with a grab off a wall but that's anyone. It's all at different %s, of course, but Fox can start up combos easily as well. And, Falcon can do more than just usmash to combo, to keep things fair. If Falcon had to rely on that, well, bleh.

If you mean harder as in "needs more skill", that doesn't apply for these stuff.

DK vs Yoshi will have to remain ? for now. -_- I'd rather have a real discussion than "I guess Yoshi is better".

 

[NixxxoN]

Not only needs more skill but also its easier to DI out of Fox combos than Falcon's.

Doesn't apply? meh -_- still easy to do a falcon generic combo on Fox and set him ready to die

 

[The Star King]

What are good characters to use against Jigglypuff, and what are bad ones? I really have trouble with Puffs, which probably sounds odd (main Pika and second Falcon/Kirby)

 

[Blue Yoshi]

What are good characters to use against Jigglypuff, and what are bad ones? I really have trouble with Puffs, which probably sounds odd (main Pika and second Falcon/Kirby)

We haven't gotten to that matchup yet, but here's what I believe:

Puff ***** Ness.

Fox ***** puff, and is probably Puff's hardest matchup.

An excellent Pikachu ***** Puff. Puff has the 0-death combo on Pikachu (Pika's one of the easiest to do it on), but a good Pika will never get hit by puff. Use up air when Puff's above you. It has more priority (hope I'm using the right word ) over Puff's down air. All Puff needs is one good down air, or one grab, and consider it a loss of a stock. Your attacks have better range / priority, so abuse it.

Kirby should be good against puff, since his attack have better range / priority than puff's.

Other than that, you'll have to wait until we get to that matchup, unless someone else can tell you the other matchups. I belive what I said is all true (I know Puff destroys ness, and Fox destroys puff, and pretty sure that Kirby destroys puff). As for Pika vs Puff, Pika should have the upper hand, but the winner will be determined by whoever knows the matchup better and whoever is more skilled with their character.

 

[Surri-Sama]

We haven't gotten to that matchup yet, but here's what I believe:

Puff ***** Ness.

Fox ***** puff, and is probably Puff's hardest matchup.

An excellent Pikachu ***** Puff. Puff has the 0-death combo on Pikachu (Pika's one of the easiest to do it on), but a good Pika will never get hit by puff. Use up air when Puff's above you. It has more priority (hope I'm using the right word ) over Puff's down air. All Puff needs is one good down air, or one grab, and consider it a loss of a stock. Your attacks have better range / priority, so abuse it.

Kirby should be good against puff, since his attack have better range / priority than puff's.

Other than that, you'll have to wait until we get to that matchup, unless someone else can tell you the other matchups. I belive what I said is all true (I know Puff destroys ness, and Fox destroys puff, and pretty sure that Kirby destroys puff). As for Pika vs Puff, Pika should have the upper hand, but the winner will be determined by whoever knows the matchup better and whoever is more skilled with their character.

Any combo you can consistently get with Jiggly, vs Pika...will work on Ness and Kirby too...and most of them are very simple...Nair-->Grab--> MANY MANY THINGS

 

[NixxxoN]

What are good characters to use against Jigglypuff, and what are bad ones? I really have trouble with Puffs, which probably sounds odd (main Pika and second Falcon/Kirby)

Luigi ***** jiggly, Samus aswell, but I think Luigi is even better than Samus against her

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Don't forget about DK's grab->wait + regrab-> DK punch ><

And Fox isn't that awesome against Jiggly. He can get comboed relatively easily, though it is true that he can easily usmash or uair KO. Still, his koing against Jiggly is no better than Luigi/Samus, but he gets comboed a lot more than those 2 without as many options to break the combo (up+b with both luigi/samus).

Of course... Luigi/Samus are just retardedly good against Jiggly.

Sirhc, grab combos aren't that good against kirby because he's too floaty (unless they're dumb and DI down :D). Kirby is not as good against Jiggly as commonly thought either because of easy rest combos and easy edgeguarding for jiggly against Kirby.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Don't forget about DK's grab->wait + regrab-> DK punch ><

And Fox isn't that awesome against Jiggly. He can get comboed relatively easily, though it is true that he can easily usmash or uair KO. Still, his koing against Jiggly is no better than Luigi/Samus, but he gets comboed a lot more than those 2 without as many options to break the combo (up+b with both luigi/samus).

Of course... Luigi/Samus are just retardedly good against Jiggly.

Sirhc, grab combos aren't that good against kirby because he's too floaty (unless they're dumb and DI down :D). Kirby is not as good against Jiggly as commonly thought either because of easy rest combos and easy edgeguarding for jiggly against Kirby.

grab combos work fine