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attempt at matchup thread

Superstar

Smash Champion
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Feb 9, 2007
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Miami, Florida
VS Mario, it's an annoying match. You have to be patient to win, chucking fireballs. Kirby outrange everything except your upsmash, so you need to get Kirby to come to you, and if Kirby camps, expect a long and boring fight.

Kirby v Mario: -/=

Kirby's up tilt is better than Ness's up tilt, kirby has an easier time gimping and recovering
uptilt v uptilt matters not, but how dair compares to uair. Bad though. How does Ness' DJC Bair work here? Kirby has an easier time gimping and recovering though, mostly since Kirby will recover high in this matchup. If Kirby recovers low though he's dead.

Another campy match, both camp each other out. I think it's =/+, but other than that I'm unsure.
 

Cryptic C62

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
61
I don't know that Mario beats Kirby. Kirby can gimp Mario really easily, since Kirby's dair works wonders against Mario's Up+B. Also, Kirby has a sex kick, two drills, and the awkward uair -- plenty of easy ways to deal with Mario's fireballs.
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
Joined
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Storrs, Connecticut
I don't know that Mario beats Kirby. Kirby can gimp Mario really easily, since Kirby's dair works wonders against Mario's Up+B.
Unless Mario is in a really ****ty position when recovering, most of the time he can time/space to avoid the dair.

Also, Kirby has a sex kick, two drills, and the awkward uair -- plenty of easy ways to deal with Mario's fireballs.
It doesn't mean anything if he can't ever catch up to Mario.
 

Dr_Strangelove

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Messages
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London
I would like to apologise for bumping this thread as badly as I am, but it is a really good thread, and I feel that I am somewhat contributing.
I couldn't see any conclusive answer to the yoshi vs DK matchup, and seeing as I have a lot of experience playing someone my own ability in this matchup, I felt I should contribute.

It is a +, bordering on ++ advantage in yoshi's favour.
DK is really really fat, and so yoshi's d-air ***** him really hard, and is obscenely easy to spam.
If you hit with it, you can then u-tilt, then shorthop d-air again... and repeat.
It is actually a zero to kill if you then shove an upsmash on the end of it.
The d-air also eats through DK's shield. I'm not good enough to then DJC spam n-airs, but I reckon it will break the shield if you do this after trapping DK with shieldstun of the d-air.

In terms of edgeguarding, DK can't really do anything to yoshi's recovery.
Yoshi's f-air on the other hand goes THROUGH DK's up-b, which is just unfair. xD
At almost any percent that will be dead, because of DK's useless vertical recovery.

The only thing that can redeem DK is his insane grab range, and his useful throws.
Especially the disgustingly powerful backthrow.

Again, I apologise if bumping this is a rapeworthy offence. :******:
 

Daedatheus

Smash Lord
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Toronto & Kingston, Ontario
I think Mario's up smash kills kirby at I think 80
Actually it kills at 60% (on middle plat Hyrule)

If you hit with it, you can then u-tilt, then shorthop d-air again... and repeat. It is actually a zero to kill if you then shove an upsmash on the end of it.
This only works against bad players who don't DI the drill.

In terms of edgeguarding, DK can't really do anything to yoshi's recovery.
??? DK's aerials and up+b may not have much effect on Yoshi's DJ but his grab doesn't pay attention to super armour. If yoshi throws out an aerial on recovery he risks killing himself, DK can space an up+b off the stage to mess with Yoshi, or if Yoshi's DJ is close to the edge, DK can grab Yoshi at the edge from a distance unsafe for Yoshi to throw out an aerial to counteract it (because even if it hits DK, Yoshi is risking falling through the edge and not grabbing it).
Admittedly DK is not the best edgeguarder against Yoshi's good recovery though. Yoshi has enough ways to switch it up that ensure his recovery onto stage.
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,917
BUMP.

How far along to completeness did this ever get to? Let's get an actual chart and continue this thread.
 

ballin4life

Smash Hero
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disproving determinism
How does Jiggz matchup against Kirby in this game? I
I'm not good with jiggs but I'd think that kirby would have the advantage because of better priority/range and the utilt will counter jiggly's drill (and drill utilt rest is one of jiggs best combos against floaties when the fthrow will send them too high).

Kirby can't combo jiggly too well but can edgeguard better because he doesn't have to worry about running out of jumps to the same extent that jiggly does.
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
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SF Bay Area
Kirby is one of Jiggly's better matchups since she's harder to edgeguard than most with Kirby. I'd say the matchup is about 50-50.

I can add some input on Jiggly's matchups.
Pika 40-60 Jiggly has a hard time approaching, but Pika can't edgeguard Jiggly to death as reliably
Kirby 50-50
Ness 50-50 Ness is one of the few characters that can combo Jiggly well. It's also extremely difficult to approach Ness when he's uair spamming. However, Jiggly has a much better edge game and can reliably combo Ness.
Fox 30-70 Jiggly can combo Fox to death, but forget approaching past those lasers, quick movement, and high-priority aerials. Your best bet is nair and platform camping.
Falcon 60-40 Falcon has a hard time both comboing Jiggs and fighting her off the edge.
Mario 30-70 Many of Jiggly's combos don't work here, while Mario can still uair combo.
DK 40-60 Too much priority, too little hitstun
Yoshi 60-40 You'll have an easy time edgeguarding and not getting combo'd, while you can combo easily yourself.
Luigi 20-80 I hate fighting Luigis. He has a crappy approach, but it doesn't matter since Jiggly's is worse. And he can combo Jiggly extremely easily while most of Jiggly's staple combos are ineffective.
Link 50-50 On Hyrule, I'd say it's slightly in Link's favor. Main strategy: get Link off the edge. Good luck getting past those projectiles and that huge sword. You can combo Link, but he can kill easily.
Samus 40-60 Jiggly can't combo or approach.

Maybe move 5 points against Jiggly's favor when you're playing on Hyrule. Tornado kills at 60-70%? Seriously? And don't bother taking Jiggly to Isai's house. Just stay at the middle platforms or the left edge.

Verdict: Overall, Jiggly has terrible matchups, but she does better than most against some of the top characters (Pika, Kirby, Ness, Falcon).
 

Surri-Sama

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I should main pikachu exclusively under a lurk name...i bet i could get a lot of people going.....

Much like some one you dont hear much from any more o.o;;

sorry...
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Kirby is one of Jiggly's better matchups since she's harder to edgeguard than most with Kirby. I'd say the matchup is about 50-50.

I can add some input on Jiggly's matchups.
Pika 40-60 Jiggly has a hard time approaching, but Pika can't edgeguard Jiggly to death as reliably
Kirby 50-50
Ness 50-50 Ness is one of the few characters that can combo Jiggly well. It's also extremely difficult to approach Ness when he's uair spamming. However, Jiggly has a much better edge game and can reliably combo Ness.
Fox 30-70 Jiggly can combo Fox to death, but forget approaching past those lasers, quick movement, and high-priority aerials. Your best bet is nair and platform camping.
Falcon 60-40 Falcon has a hard time both comboing Jiggs and fighting her off the edge.
Mario 30-70 Many of Jiggly's combos don't work here, while Mario can still uair combo.
DK 40-60 Too much priority, too little hitstun
Yoshi 60-40 You'll have an easy time edgeguarding and not getting combo'd, while you can combo easily yourself.
Luigi 20-80 I hate fighting Luigis. He has a crappy approach, but it doesn't matter since Jiggly's is worse. And he can combo Jiggly extremely easily while most of Jiggly's staple combos are ineffective.
Link 50-50 On Hyrule, I'd say it's slightly in Link's favor. Main strategy: get Link off the edge. Good luck getting past those projectiles and that huge sword. You can combo Link, but he can kill easily.
Samus 40-60 Jiggly can't combo or approach.

Maybe move 5 points against Jiggly's favor when you're playing on Hyrule. Tornado kills at 60-70%? Seriously? And don't bother taking Jiggly to Isai's house. Just stay at the middle platforms or the left edge.

Verdict: Overall, Jiggly has terrible matchups, but she does better than most against some of the top characters (Pika, Kirby, Ness, Falcon).

--

Any drill on a character's shield is a grab unless you are really slow, an up-tilt on a shield is a grab, a dumb approach will get smacked by jiggly's up-tilt and then lead to a grab

Jiggly has a super good roll


I think Falcon vs Jiggly is too close to say who is betterA grab is death to Falcon but Falcon has his ways, a simple combo would usually be enough

Luigi vs Jiggly is not 20-80, if you have trouble comboing past a few up-airs, try doing weak f-air, reverse pound, or weak n-air to rest. I think n-air beats a lot of Luigi's approaches too. Luigi's approach is mostly rather low priority and awkward compared to jiggly's. but A mistake from Jiggly can lead to an easy loss of stock. I'd say more like 40-60 in Luigi's favor

Whether or not you are in the very middle of hyrule, rests are very useful at even 50-65 % range, for many characters they set up easy edgeguards too

I don't think any of DK's aerials beat Jiggly's n-air head on, DK's only real priority moves are giant punch, up-b and his absurd grab range. DK is very easy to combo with Jigglypuff and is the easiest character to follow when he DI's your down-air drill simply because he is so big and fat

I personally think you overrate Ness's combo ability on Jigglypuff also. There's the shield break combo but no real 0 to death except for the aerial spam to stomp near the edge but that's against every character. Jigglypuff has great, easy combos on ness and Jiggly's jumps let her edgeguard Ness really easily too. 60-40 in Jiggly's favor

Mario's up-air combos aren't effective enough to cause death (most of the time), Jiggly though still has her combos on him if you do more stuff than simply up-air. I'm not sure who beats who really but it's not as bad as 30-70 in mario's favor

Link vs Jiggly: not that bad, Jiggly can jab link's boomerangs for like 4 frames of clash and
no damage, dodge bombs fairly easily and is easy to up-air ***** to rest due to his weight. Smart links will never be dumb enough to aggressively fight near the edge and will instead try to draw the fight towards the middle of Hyrule. 50-50 on Hyrule

Samus vs Jiggly: Definitely Jiggly's favor, i'm tired so i'm going to simply say that isai said so


People nowadays seem to highly underrate Jiggly's drill as a common method of attack. People say you can DI away from it but really smart people can just follow your DI and follow it up often. Jiggly's aerial manuerability allows this to happen. If you want to you can not l-cancel if the opponent is fairly high percent so that they pop up from the ground for you to smack them or sleep on them

You can sort of follow their DI with repeated up-tilt but some people are capable of seizure DI that outspeeds Jiggly's tiny walk

I really don't think Jigglypuff's matchups suck except for against Fox, now that one you have to platform camp your way to victory. Jiggly is really a pretty good character, it's just that a lot of people just don't play jigglypuff to her full or even 70% of her potential. What should be an easy 0 to death each time Jigglypuff grabs, 90% of players still miss a lot of them to this day
 

Dylan_Tnga

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
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Montreal Canada
I should main pikachu exclusively under a lurk name...i bet i could get a lot of people going.....

Much like some one you dont hear much from any more o.o;;

sorry...
You could be "MARKS!" or maybe "MATTHEWS!" and play only pika..

Remember, when you pull off a backthrow to fsmash edgeguard to type

BEST BEST BEST!

also, record everymatch and only upload the ones where you win...

we miss you MATTS :(
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
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May 17, 2006
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SF Bay Area
Mario, Luigi, and Samus can all break out of Jiggly's utilt chain before it kills (even on Dreamland), reducing a lot of her KO power. Luigi can kill at 50% on Hyrule and Samus can double bair.
Projectiles give Jiggly a harder time than they do most characters because of her sluggish movement.
Ness is one of the few characters that can reliably combo Jiggs. He can DJC uair chain or DJC fair chain.
DK is big and heavy, but he has less hitstun than everyone else. His grab goes through all of Jiggly's attacks except dair, against which he can just shield (setting up a free grab).

What is this aerial maneuverability I keep hearing about? This is SSB, not Melee. Jiggly has no aerial maneuverability in this game. I've always mained Jiggs but Fox, Falcon, Kirby, and Pikachu all feel more natural in the air and are much more mobile.
 

asianaussie

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I'm probably wrong, but since Jiggs is floaty, she stays in the air longer, and can thus get further without jumping than pretty much any other character. That would give the illusion of having superior aerial movement.

I think most other characters are much faster and more fluent in the air, but Jiggs gets a lot of distance.
 

greenblob

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She's floaty, but that's only useful when you're recovering. It's not that great if you're trying to approach or dodge projectiles.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Mario, Luigi, and Samus can all break out of Jiggly's utilt chain before it kills (even on Dreamland), reducing a lot of her KO power. Luigi can kill at 50% on Hyrule and Samus can double bair.
Projectiles give Jiggly a harder time than they do most characters because of her sluggish movement.
Ness is one of the few characters that can reliably combo Jiggs. He can DJC uair chain or DJC fair chain.
DK is big and heavy, but he has less hitstun than everyone else. His grab goes through all of Jiggly's attacks except dair, against which he can just shield (setting up a free grab).

What is this aerial maneuverability I keep hearing about? This is SSB, not Melee. Jiggly has no aerial maneuverability in this game. I've always mained Jiggs but Fox, Falcon, Kirby, and Pikachu all feel more natural in the air and are much more mobile.

Jigglypuff doesn't even use up-tilt chain to kill that much, this is a hallmark of bad jigglypuff players that can't do anything else

DJC up-air chain doesn't even last that long on jiggs, not long enough

less hitstun on DK just means you have to play better, you don't see DK's getting out of combos from good players

im saying its easier to move in the air and follow someone's DI after you start a drill on someone since the drill lasts long, Fox's drill simply doesn't hit them as hard and he falls too fast to follow as effectively

and lol at getting grabbed by DI if you drill his shield, what kind of player drills and stays in front of Donkey Kong?
 

asianaussie

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She's floaty, but that's only useful when you're recovering. It's not that great if you're trying to approach or dodge projectiles.
Exactly. She gets distance, but isn't exactly fast in the air.

im saying its easier to move in the air and follow someone's DI after you start a drill on someone since the drill lasts long, Fox's drill simply doesn't hit them as hard and he falls too fast to follow as effectively
He's right. The drill lasts for a long time, she's floaty enough to get most of the drill out, and that same floatiness lets her move left/right to follow DI.
 
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