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attempt at matchup thread

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
All true, with one slight thing I'll add:

If puff has enough jumps left (big if), puff can fast-fall to avoid pika's edgeguard, then head for the ledge.

We might as well call it a -- matchup, since a huge majority agree to --. Well, I guess that means if I do somehow manage to beat a Pika as Puff, it makes it that much better :p
 

Cryptic C62

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As for Jiggs vs. Ness edgeguarding, I'd say Jiggs has a big advantage. Jiggs' ability to float around for a while before heading back to the stage works wonders against Ness's recovery. Whatever mindgames Ness tries to pull (heading straight for the ledge, jumping backwards before Up+B), Jiggs has time to sit around, hit with a nair or fair, then make it back. Ness doesn't exactly have the sort-of sex smash moves that make it so easy to abuse a straight shot for the ledge (Pika's fmash, Kirby's dsmash, Fox's dsmash), and he can't jump upwards fast enough to fend off an attempt by Jiggs to go over the stage.
 

Kefit

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Jiggly will usually be coming in high, higher than Pika can jump up to hit her away from without being caught in Jiggly's dair or nair. She's really one of the hardest characters for Pika to edge guard in this situation. She'll rarely be coming in low, as Pika's main ways to send her out (bair, throw, etc) will put her high into the air.

Jiggly's nair helps her keep up with Pika in terms of spacing, and if she manages to land a dair she can proceed to eat Pika alive. And of course a grab will lead to an inescapable kill at low percents.

I really don't see this being anything lower than a single -. Jiggly has to play a boring camping game with dairs and nairs, trying to get Pika caught in the dair blender or a grab. I can't imagine this being fun for either player - it's certainly not for the Pika - but in terms of pure matchup advantage it's enough to keep things competitive.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
lol edgeguarding ness is dead easy. If ness recovers from far away, jiggs just waits at the stage and knocks him back. If Ness recovers from close up (but not close enough to grab the ledge), Jiggs just goes above ness, falls at the same speed, and just follows ness down. Ness eventually has to use his up-B, and when he does, puff takes the hit, causing ness to die. Puff will easily recover. The only time this fails is if the puff player is going for a JD 6-stock.

If Ness can't grab the ledge, he's dead. 0% chance of recovering. The best he can do is deal 3% or whatever from the up-B.



I can't imagine this being fun for either player - it's certainly not for the Pika - but in terms of pure matchup advantage it's enough to keep things competitive.
I love the Pika vs Jiggs matchup... when I'm the puff. It forces me to play a perfect game, and to make no mistakes in my combos. Plus I have to stay alert the entire time. One mistake by either player results in a death. I'd consider this one of my favourite Puff matchups, maybe even my favourite... even with the major pika advantage :p.

The key to playing against a puff is patience... or Fox...
 

Seala

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lol edgeguarding ness is dead easy. If ness recovers from far away, jiggs just waits at the stage and knocks him back. If Ness recovers from close up (but not close enough to grab the ledge), Jiggs just goes above ness, falls at the same speed, and just follows ness down. Ness eventually has to use his up-B, and when he does, puff takes the hit, causing ness to die. Puff will easily recover. The only time this fails is if the puff player is going for a JD 6-stock.

If Ness can't grab the ledge, he's dead. 0% chance of recovering. The best he can do is deal 3% or whatever from the up-B.





I love the Pika vs Jiggs matchup... when I'm the puff. It forces me to play a perfect game, and to make no mistakes in my combos. Plus I have to stay alert the entire time. One mistake by either player results in a death. I'd consider this one of my favourite Puff matchups, maybe even my favourite... even with the major pika advantage :p.

The key to playing against a puff is patience... or Fox...
The float above Ness and take his up b is far from guranteed, have you seen how far ness can recover vertically with just his up b? Especially on a stage like Hyrule where the walls steer him in the right direction. Jigglypuff can't follow him even close to that far down or she's dead for sure. (I'm not saying it's not easy to edgeguard ness as puff, but floating above him doesn't always work.) Besides it's called a JV 6-stock, isn't it?
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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Jiggs vs Mario: -, everyone else has mentioned most of the stuff, also Mario's up smash kills I believe at 60 or 70 on hyrule

Jiggs v Ness: + or ++ for Jigglypuff, Ness can't combo Jigglypuff well with any of his aerials and Jigglypuff has a great recovery/approach vs ness, Ness's only good thing in this matchup is shield breakers (instant death). IMO, Ness's worst matchup

Jiggs vs Pikachu --, I don't know enough about this matchup but from what i have seen, jiggylpuff can't do almost anything to Pikachu's recovery and can't do anythnig to get through Pikachu's broken priority
 

MattNF

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Jiggs vs Link entered as =
Hold on a second.

What makes this matchup even? Jigglypuff does much better than Link, it's definitely a +. Link can't do **** with his boomerang because of Jiggly's Nair, Link falls fast making rest combos as easy as utilt combos with Kirby, Link's easy to edgegaurd with dair, downsmash, or even a dropzoned Nair, etc
 

Daedatheus

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Ness doesn't exactly have the sort-of sex smash moves that make it so easy to abuse a straight shot for the ledge (Pika's fmash, Kirby's dsmash, Fox's dsmash)
Um, next time you play as Ness, spam dsmash at the ledge. Like seriously, one after the other in instant succession.

Legendary.

Or not :p'

But it IS a pretty good and easy tool in certain situations.
 

Superstar

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Hold on a second.

What makes this matchup even? Jigglypuff does much better than Link, it's definitely a +. Link can't do **** with his boomerang because of Jiggly's Nair, Link falls fast making rest combos as easy as utilt combos with Kirby, Link's easy to edgegaurd with dair, downsmash, or even a dropzoned Nair, etc

Jiggs nair has a cool down meaning she can't just be nairing or she's doing what Link wants, Link also has bombs, Link outranges Jiggs, Link sets up edgeguards better [Jiggs has to resort mostly to bthrows], AND can edgeguard her well. Link may not combo but almost every single one of his moves does good knockback, and Jiggs dies/gets set up at pretty low percents. She can "edgeguard" Link, but most of those times he wouldn't make it back anyways, and they have to be set up. Dair beats Link's UpB, but getting Link off often implies that she's far from him and can't do it, the window after knocking him off to edgeguard is 1-2 seconds.

Those are Link's updsides. I dunno which matters more, so it's a I dunno.
 

MattNF

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Jiggs nair has a cool down meaning she can't just be nairing or she's doing what Link wants, Link also has bombs, Link outranges Jiggs, Link sets up edgeguards better [Jiggs has to resort mostly to bthrows], AND can edgeguard her well. Link may not combo but almost every single one of his moves does good knockback, and Jiggs dies/gets set up at pretty low percents. She can "edgeguard" Link, but most of those times he wouldn't make it back anyways, and they have to be set up. Dair beats Link's UpB, but getting Link off often implies that she's far from him and can't do it, the window after knocking him off to edgeguard is 1-2 seconds.

Those are Link's updsides. I dunno which matters more, so it's a I dunno.
Fair will also cancel 'rangs, I believe. So that works too. Bombs are hardly a threat, at least in my experience. They're very predictable and easy to see coming.

I think the main thing that makes jiggly better than link in this matchup is her comboability on link. You can almost combo every aerial into any other aerial with jiggly and it'll still work, that's how easy it is to combo link.
 

Winston

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Hold on a second.

What makes this matchup even? Jigglypuff does much better than Link, it's definitely a +. Link can't do **** with his boomerang because of Jiggly's Nair, Link falls fast making rest combos as easy as utilt combos with Kirby, Link's easy to edgegaurd with dair, downsmash, or even a dropzoned Nair, etc
Yeah, I entered it as even because most of the people who were commenting on it felt it wasn't worse than a 45-55 for Link, and because it was time to move on.

But of course it's still open to discussion, it's just not the main focus.

For matchups like these that I dont' really know I'm mostly going by other people's opinions so...
 

Superstar

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If Fair cancels then fair might work. Bombs aren't a "wall", but it doesn't mean that Jiggs will always get past them. Link shouldn't be spamming them anyways, mainly as pressure/area denial.

Jiggs only real advantage is combo ability. I don't know how large an impact that has, since Link finishes her off early. It's hard for Jiggs to set them up vs Link.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
The float above Ness and take his up b is far from guranteed, have you seen how far ness can recover vertically with just his up b?
If Ness recovers from far away, Puff can wait on the stage and just send him right back out after the up-B. Puff can send him back with Nair, Fair, Bair, (insert letter here)air, or even Rest if he ends up on the stage. As for grounded attacks to send him away, there's Dsmash and Fsmash that will do the job. This works if Ness recovers at a far distance.

If Ness recovers from a close distance (i.e. reachable for what I said... following Ness), then the following Ness technique will work.

If Ness recovers from mid-distance away, waiting at the stage and resting may be the best solution... or a Nair or something. There's too many ways to edgeguard a Ness.

And when I say Rest, it's right after Ness's up-B, during the half hour he stays still.

Especially on a stage like Hyrule where the walls steer him in the right direction. Jigglypuff can't follow him even close to that far down or she's dead for sure.
If Ness goes that low, puff can go back to the stage and go back to the edgeguarding techniques I already said. Puff should never follow ness if he goes very far away (one Puff mid-air jump distance should be max).

Another way to edgeguard Ness if he's close to the ledge after his up-B is to grab the ledge. He's then forced to land on the stage, giving you an easy rest or anything due to his long landing lag.

Besides it's called a JV 6-stock, isn't it?
I made a typo, but no Johnz.
 

DemonicInfluence

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For Jiggly vs. Mario, a - because of super range of attack issues and also the fireballs. It isn't a -- because jiggly can still do some reliable combos without being abused constantly by like luigi's up+b or something.

For Jiggly vs. Ness, just + because a good ness with super DJC will be hard to approach, which makes it difficult to combo.

For Jiggly vs. Pika, I think it's a 45-55 match for Jiggly. I dunno if that is - or =. This is because I think the teleport makes approaching Pika not impossible and Jiggly can get some combos in. The downside is that pika has a lot more power in dair, bthrow, bair. I think it can go either way. However, this matchup is pretty dull and is just a game of spacing and camping, since neither can really force the other out of camping.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
For Jiggly vs. Ness, just + because a good ness with super DJC will be hard to approach, which makes it difficult to combo.

For Jiggly vs. Pika, I think it's a 45-55 match for Jiggly. I dunno if that is - or =. This is because I think the teleport makes approaching Pika not impossible and Jiggly can get some combos in. The downside is that pika has a lot more power in dair, bthrow, bair. I think it can go either way. However, this matchup is pretty dull and is just a game of spacing and camping, since neither can really force the other out of camping.
I've never heard of Super DJC before. He must be hacking :p

Even with humanly perfect DJC, I would still consider this ++ for jiggs. Just because it's hard for Jiggs to approach doesn't mean Jiggs must approach. If the Jiggs player is unable to hit the Ness player, Jiggs can just wait on the side, taunt cancel, do a couple of sings, etc. until the Ness player's fingers get tired of DJC spamming. But even with DJC, puff can still hit Ness. If puff just plays aggressive and goes all out on Ness, then yes, puff will get stopped by DJC'd Uairs, and every failed attempt will raise puff's damage, slowly resulting in the loss of stocks. If puff plays puff-like and waits for the best opportunities, then one messed up DJC results in the loss of a stock, a perfectly timed Dair will hit between DJC's, resulting in the loss of a stock, a grab as Ness lands results in the loss of a stock, etc.

Ness, on the other hand, doesn't have much against puff other than longer-ranged attacks. He can't combo puff well, making any mistake results in the loss of a stock, etc. Puff beats ness in every category except for range, but that isn't enough to move the matchup off of ++ in my opinion.

Pika vs Puff: I do agree with --. I played more friendlies with Kefit, and the more we play, the more he learns the matchup and the worse and worse the result for puff. If a good Pika knows the matchup, then it will probably end up -- for puff since pika out-ranges, out-prioritizes, out-maneuvers, and out-***** puff. The only thing puff has for her is her 0-deaths on pika, but a pika that knows the matchup enough will know what to avoid and will just **** puff. Still one of my favourite matchups as puff though... :p
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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I've never heard of Super DJC before. He must be hacking :p

Even with humanly perfect DJC, I would still consider this ++ for jiggs. Just because it's hard for Jiggs to approach doesn't mean Jiggs must approach. If the Jiggs player is unable to hit the Ness player, Jiggs can just wait on the side, taunt cancel, do a couple of sings, etc. until the Ness player's fingers get tired of DJC spamming. But even with DJC, puff can still hit Ness. If puff just plays aggressive and goes all out on Ness, then yes, puff will get stopped by DJC'd Uairs, and every failed attempt will raise puff's damage, slowly resulting in the loss of stocks. If puff plays puff-like and waits for the best opportunities, then one messed up DJC results in the loss of a stock, a perfectly timed Dair will hit between DJC's, resulting in the loss of a stock, a grab as Ness lands results in the loss of a stock, etc.

Ness, on the other hand, doesn't have much against puff other than longer-ranged attacks. He can't combo puff well, making any mistake results in the loss of a stock, etc. Puff beats ness in every category except for range, but that isn't enough to move the matchup off of ++ in my opinion.

Pika vs Puff: I do agree with --. I played more friendlies with Kefit, and the more we play, the more he learns the matchup and the worse and worse the result for puff. If a good Pika knows the matchup, then it will probably end up -- for puff since pika out-ranges, out-prioritizes, out-maneuvers, and out-***** puff. The only thing puff has for her is her 0-deaths on pika, but a pika that knows the matchup enough will know what to avoid and will just **** puff. Still one of my favourite matchups as puff though... :p
If a person had perfect DJC, ness would have 0 to deaths....also, if ness had this, Jigglypuff couldn't shield since your shield would be broken instantly by DJC's

In this case, it would even then be a good matchup for ness. It is just that no one can perfect DJC
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
That's why I said humanly perfect DJC, as in the best a human can possibly do.

Also, why would Puff shield in the first place? One hit from Ness will result in an instant shield break, resulting in instant death... Unless puff just happens to be under the tent. Puff would be much better off not shielding and taking the hits than shielding and dying due to a broken shield.
 

Dr_Strangelove

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I don't consider it ++ for Jiggs Ness isn't bad at racking up damage against Jigglypuff and if near the edge can do some early percentage gimpy combos


But I'd say Jigglypuff has the slight advantage

A single +

Also you don't need insane Double jump cancel to break Jiggly's shield with Down-air once you stomp them once they are stunned enough that you can go rather slow actually and stomp to shield break.
 

Winston

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So it seems like:

- Jiggs gets destroyed by Pikachu -- is pretty much agreed on, for good reason
- Jiggs disadvantaged to Mario single - is pretty uncontroversial; Mario is better than Luigi in most cases but lacks the effortless anything-to-death Luigi has vs Jiggs
- Jiggs vs Ness + (?) Ness fair chains should be fairly doable but probably not enough to swing this in his favor. The shield break should be pretty easy for a good Ness, but Jiggs won't shield here anyway.

I didn't really see anyone disagreeing here so let's move on unless anyone has serious objections.

36/66 matchups "completed", btw, when it's done I'll (or maybe someone else if someone volunteers) redraw the chart and we can do revisions

up next:

Jiggs vs Samus
Jiggs vs Yoshi
Kirby vs Link

fire away
 

Superstar

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I do not have any Link vs Kirby experience.

I hear utilt > Link's dair though. Fair help him outrange the bullcrap Kirby has [MAYBE], Kirby gimps him to bloody hell, simple dtilt may lead to an easy dair, can do the utilt crap like he can vs Falcon. To combo Link needs to get off a usmash...or it depends on how uair clashes with Kirby's dair.

Like Kirby vs Falcon except Link has a better shot in approaching, but can't combo as well. Overall I don't know. At worst for Link it's + not ++. At best I could say it's =, not -.

The rest...I dunno. XD
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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Jiggs vs Samus: + for samus....or even, Jigglypuff has problems comboing Samus and this is probably Samus's only good matchup besides MAYBE ness. Samus's f-air is a major problem and back air kills quite early, like 60-40 or maybe 55-45

Jiggs vs Yoshi: Plus for Jiggs , any light character means Yoshi has problems comboing such as Jigglypuff
The main thing Yoshi can try is a DJC down air or n-air shield breaker. Up throw combos regardless of DJCC work well.

Kirby vs Link
+ for Kirby. Matchup becomes much more even on Hyrule since Link can space much better here. Up tilt combos go through virtually all of Link's moves and Kirby has multiple gimps (mainly back air and that down air) vs Link's recovery.
 

Skrlx

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is it weird that i find matchups with kirby exciting?

for example matchups where kirby has a huge advantage over DK etc

i used to like ditto's but not as much anymore.. people nowadays ditto because a.) you obliterated all their chars b.) they are mean people and think they have a chance if they choose the same character. not because it's fun. falcon dittos are fun but i hate them when i choose falcon and oviously i have a higher chance of winning cause i'm good with him so immediately they choose falcon ._.

there was a time where i played jiggly and i killed everyone rofl i had the high tiers in the palm of my hands. but about that ness vs jiggly, if the jiggly is good at edgeguarding/gimping it's an instant win for jiggly. to me it's jiggly > ness unless the ness is under the control of PEEK~~~~~
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
to me it's jiggly > ness unless the ness is under the control of PEEK~~~~~
Then it would be jiggly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ness :p

Jiggs vs Yoshi is advantage Jiggs (+). Yoshi can't combo Jiggs, and Jiggs can 0-death Yoshi, or combo to death at nearly any percent. I'm too lazy to go into detail, but others seem to agree with this.

Jiggs vs Samus: I hate this matchup. Definite Samus advantage, most likely -.

Too lazy to go into detail right now, so I guess I'm done for now.
 

Winston

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haha... come on guys we're almost done with the jiggs section >.>

So it seems like so far the consensus is

Jiggs vs Samus: - Samus has range and KO power here, Jiggs doesn't have easy combo setups
Jiggs vs Yoshi: + Jiggs has easy combo setups into KO and Yoshi doesn't
Kirby vs Link: + utilt and bair and all that kirby jazz, however since Kirby isn't that fast Link can play his spacing game

objections? thoughts?
 
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haha... come on guys we're almost done with the jiggs section >.>

So it seems like so far the consensus is

Jiggs vs Samus: - Samus has range and KO power here, Jiggs doesn't have easy combo setups
Jiggs vs Yoshi: + Jiggs has easy combo setups into KO and Yoshi doesn't
Kirby vs Link: + utilt and bair and all that kirby jazz, however since Kirby isn't that fast Link can play his spacing game

objections? thoughts?




I am convinced based on playing people who don't suck with jiggly that it's jiggly sided over samus. Samus is combo food for Jiggly, the only thing you can't use is f-throw. Jigglypuff has the best, safest roll in the game and is better at counter-attacking. Her roll is like a spot-dodge. jigglypuff sort of out-ranges Samus with n-air. Drills are effective enough if Jigglypuffs can follow the DI, you can pretty much escape only half the time.

If the game was playing on flat ground maybe Jigglypuff would have trouble comboing but the game simply has a lot of platforms and the combo house in Hyrule that enable up-air to bounce off house ****. Samus can do it also but it's often not as good as Jiggly's.

Samus has trouble killing Jiggly in the middle of the stage, more often then not Jiggs will make it back from down-air to b-air or if its at a too high percentage Jiggly will be too high to hit.

Jigglypuff's combo setups are easier to do against Samus than Samus on Jigglypuff

--

Jiggs vs Yoshi

I'd say equal


Yoshi can get low percentage kills pretty easily if they land a f-air into ground pound or f-tilt(s) to f-air gimp kill.

You simply cannot allow Jiggly to live to a large percentage or Jiggly will take forever to kill and is kind of hard to edgeguard

Jiggly has great combo killing but Yoshi can double jump out of a lot of things or double jump fast enough to not get hit super far away by Rest sometimes
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Yoshi will only escape if puff messes up. Puff can legitimately training mode 0-death, as in the combo counter shows a full 0-death (minus grab if applicable). Yoshi *can* DJ out of it, but only if puff messes up. Against a good puff, that won't happen too often even with DI.
 

DemonicInfluence

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I agree with smoke2jointz points, but would like to say that samus I think has a slight advantage over jiggly sheerly because of the massively superior range that she has on her moves. This advantage may not be enough to translate to a + for samus.
 

Superstar

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I know too little of Kirby vs Link.

Kirby's throw gimps suck vs Link, but dtilt helps edgeguard Link good once he's off. I don't know how the range goes, but I hear Kirby's utilt > Link's dair, at least from Fireblaster's complaint. I don't know how Fair stacks vs Kirby. Link can, however, abuse his projectiles to force an approach [Kirby is slow enough that bombs work], pretty much being MORE abusable than Fox's lasers vs Kirby.

I know too little, but I'm sure it's not ++.
 

Winston

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I am convinced based on playing people who don't suck with jiggly that it's jiggly sided over samus. Samus is combo food for Jiggly, the only thing you can't use is f-throw. Jigglypuff has the best, safest roll in the game and is better at counter-attacking. Her roll is like a spot-dodge. jigglypuff sort of out-ranges Samus with n-air. Drills are effective enough if Jigglypuffs can follow the DI, you can pretty much escape only half the time.

If the game was playing on flat ground maybe Jigglypuff would have trouble comboing but the game simply has a lot of platforms and the combo house in Hyrule that enable up-air to bounce off house ****. Samus can do it also but it's often not as good as Jiggly's.

Samus has trouble killing Jiggly in the middle of the stage, more often then not Jiggs will make it back from down-air to b-air or if its at a too high percentage Jiggly will be too high to hit.

Jigglypuff's combo setups are easier to do against Samus than Samus on Jigglypuff

--

Jiggs vs Yoshi

I'd say equal


Yoshi can get low percentage kills pretty easily if they land a f-air into ground pound or f-tilt(s) to f-air gimp kill.

You simply cannot allow Jiggly to live to a large percentage or Jiggly will take forever to kill and is kind of hard to edgeguard

Jiggly has great combo killing but Yoshi can double jump out of a lot of things or double jump fast enough to not get hit super far away by Rest sometimes
Don't the low percent kills that you describe for Yoshi not work as well on Hyrule?

It seems alright for Yoshi on dreamland but overall I just get the feeling that Yoshi has to work harder/make significantly fewer mistakes to win this matchup than Jiggs does. How is Yoshi racking up the damage on Jiggs to get it to KO percent?

Samus vs Jiggs; jiggs nair outranges things like samus bair?

I recognize that Jiggs can combo the hell out of Samus with upairs and the like, but it seems like that would be one of the more difficult-to-land moves to land out of a neutral positions. I think if you play carefully you can avoid being caught in a situation where they get a safe hit from below you most of the time.
 

MattNF

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Let me elaborate on my last post:

Kirby vs Link = on Hyrule, + on Dreamland, ++ on Mushroom Kingdom :p
 

Winston

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Aug 13, 2006
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Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
It's been a little quiet around these parts, so I figure it's time for me to pass semi-arbitrary judgements

Jiggs vs Yoshi as +
Kirby vs Link as +

both of these could be = to +, it's somewhere in between and also stage dependent, I just felt like the + was better if I had to choose one, especially since hyrule is only played like 1/2 of the time.

Samus vs Jiggs as =, whatever, I'd rather go with the guy who typed the paragraph over the conventional wisdom. Plus, I never try to underestimate how bad samus is of a character.

Next 3:

Kirby vs Luigi
Kirby vs Mario
Kirby vs Ness
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
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Apr 26, 2007
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5,959
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
KORO#668
It's been a little quiet around these parts, so I figure it's time for me to pass semi-arbitrary judgements

Jiggs vs Yoshi as +
Kirby vs Link as +

both of these could be = to +, it's somewhere in between and also stage dependent, I just felt like the + was better if I had to choose one, especially since hyrule is only played like 1/2 of the time.

Samus vs Jiggs as =, whatever, I'd rather go with the guy who typed the paragraph over the conventional wisdom. Plus, I never try to underestimate how bad samus is of a character.

Next 3:

Kirby vs Luigi
Kirby vs Mario
Kirby vs Ness
your saying as Jigglypuff is + vs yoshi and Kirby is plus vs Link?..ok thats fine

Kirby vs Luigi: Interesting matchup
Kirby has problems comboing luigi, the main problem is that luigi has problems approaching Kirby's priority, on the other hand, Luigi can 0 to death kirby very easily, up b kills kirby I think 55-45 either way, matchup is probably closer on Dreamland since it is easier for kirby to gimp so =

Kirby vs Mario
Its priortiy vs Priority.....even or 55-45 Mario

Kirby vs Ness
Kirby + 60-40, Kirby's up tilt is better than Ness's up tilt, kirby has an easier time gimping and recovering
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
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Apr 26, 2007
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Slippi.gg
KORO#668
I'd say 55-45 for Ness. Ness djc and vertical attacks work well against kirby.

Kirby's down air goes through everyone like ness's up tilt and Kirby's up tilt has higher priority than virtually all of Ness's moves
 

NixxxoN

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,726
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Barcelona
Kirby's down air goes through everyone like ness's up tilt and Kirby's up tilt has higher priority than virtually all of Ness's moves
yeh but kirby's uair sux and kirby has a hard time countering a fast DJC. Plus kirbys horizontal movement is slower.
 
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