Assembly of Unfamiliar Information: Give Jeepy Something to Test!

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, it's an extreme stop, but I've never gone forwards and then backwards a little bit. Watch the Extreme Awesome video at about 0:45.

I've done that, but never in a backflip fashion b4. How Bizarre, How Bizarre! (<- love that song!)

 

[PSYCHE]

I did something weird today. I was playing a lvl 9 lucario and i ran up to sh dair him and my d-air didn't stop my momentum! You think maybe there's a way to control this?!?

 

[Milln]

Vids or it didn't happen. D= Explain more.

 

[Nodrak]

If you got hit by the CPU that's normal, otherwise .. No idea o.O

 

[PSYCHE]

I have a video, maybe ill have jeepy upload it. It was on Delfino, the stage just carried me to the main place (where the statue is in SM sunshine) and I ran up to the other Lucario, sh daired, and if i remember correctly the first hitbox stopped his momentum, but for the second hitbox, he fell down a bit and then the hitbox came out. Ill have to search through my vids and find it.

 

[eMORAY21]

Great guide thanks!

 

[Nodrak]

Three things:

1. Lucario's first Jab is a backhand O.O I never knew that! Not just a backhand, a backhand with a spike on it!

2. BAD ANIMATIONS. Go into 1/4 time in training mode, zoom in on Lucario.

-Do an air dodge, make sure the whole animation is in the air. Watch Lucario's head.. see anything wierd?
-It also somewhat happens when he rolls backwards (i.e. facing left, rolls right, ends still facing left).
-Watch Lucario's left arm during utilt
-All of Lucario during dtilt (not as prominent)
-Lucario's hands during dair (not as prominent)
-Lucario's right hand when releasing the shield
-Lucario's right foot while crouching (going into the crouch and coming out)
-Lucario's hands while doing dtaunt (face right to see it best)
...
-His trip animation has no animation problems, go figure


3. I wanted to see what happens when ExtremeSpeed hits a wall after watching Jeepy's headbanging ExtremeAwesome. Walls such as Shadow Moses or Final Destination ect...

Yes I know, he can ES > wall cling, but I'm trying to go a bit more in depth then that.

-If you ExtremeSpeed into the wall straight on, you wall cling.

-If you com in from a 45 degree angle, up or down, you will also wall cling (a 45 degree angle down is harder to do though since the game see's you holding down, it tends to drop you out of the cling as if you tapped down).

-Any more then 45 degrees and it will not cling, but just fly alongside the wall

-If you ExtremeSpeed beside and parallel to a wall you will not be able to cling until the very end of ExtremeSpeed. Let me explain: On Shadow Moses, if you stand beside a wall and ExtremeSpeed starting straight up, not angled towards the wall, it will go up (obviously). While you are moving up, if you decide to curve ExtremeSpeed into the wall, it will not curve until the very end. You can curve it into the wall if you're a step away from the wall however.

-If you tap the opposite direction while heading straight for the wall in ExtremeSpeed, you will bounce off
i.e. If you're flying -------> and you tap <-- just as you hit the wall, you will bounce off.

-If you tap the opposite direction as you hit the wall at a 45 degree angle, you will fly alongside the wall and not cling.

-A neat trick, but not the most practical due to startup time. Remember that while clinging, you can immediatly do any attack...
If your opponent has his back against the wall, ExtremeSpeed towards the wall while holding down slightly. You will wall cling > immediatly fall and can dtilt, jab, ect the enemy from behind. I don't reccomend cling > nair since the ground will cancel it. Remember that if you hit the opposite direction. If you try to fsmash or ftilt, chances are you will hit the opposite direction while making contact with the wall causing Lucario will bounce and put in the perfect position to get punished.


Edit: WTF Wierdest thing just happened. While messing around in Shadow Moses, beating up a CFalcon after playing with stuff I mentioned above I just wall jumped... from the ground... in the center of the stage. Not a footstool, CFalcon was nowhere near me =S

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Lucario's having a seizure!

While testing frame data, I noticed his head for the airdodge, but didn't notice any of the other bad animations.

VERY good stuff. Adding to OP.

 

[PSYCHE]

I have a tactical question.

Is it ever good to try to hit with the tip of FP? I was looking at your KO percent thread and it doesnt do much knockback or have a very good KO percent. Plus, its dang hard to hit with. Any advice?

Also, that wall jump thing sounds interesting. Manage to save a replay?

ALSO, I know you've been working really hard on that knockback launch speed stuff. I am willing to donate some of my time and help out. If you want, of course.

 

[Popertop]

If you hit them with the tip, it has a 30% chance to trip,
and I'm pretty sure they aren't close enough to retaliate.
It outprioritizes some things, but not much IIRC.

 

[Nodrak]

It was in training mode =( freaked me out for a second lol.
I wouldn't purposely hit with the tip of FP, it has virtually no knockback, the worst it'll do is make them flinch a bit. They will punish your cooldown time rather harshly especially if you miss.

 

[PSYCHE]

If you hit them with the tip, it has a 30% chance to trip.

Interesting. Is the trip animation long enough to hit them with a f smash (d smash?), or do they have time to roll a way?

 

[Tallen]

nice finds Jeepy (I gotta visit this thread more...), I especially found the "weird" animations funny...
heh if I can catch something like that in a screenie and make a sig it would be funny XD

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I have a tactical question.

Is it ever good to try to hit with the tip of FP? I was looking at your KO percent thread and it doesnt do much knockback or have a very good KO percent. Plus, its dang hard to hit with. Any advice?

Also, that wall jump thing sounds interesting. Manage to save a replay?

ALSO, I know you've been working really hard on that knockback launch speed stuff. I am willing to donate some of my time and help out. If you want, of course.

I never purposefully try to hit with the tip. Force Palm's flame is WAY too unreliable.

Sure, I'll take your help, thanks! Although I think I may stop after 200%.... The thread is kind of dead. T.T

But if people want me to continue, I certainly will.

If you hit them with the tip, it has a 30% chance to trip,
and I'm pretty sure they aren't close enough to retaliate.
It outprioritizes some things, but not much IIRC.

Sweet, I didn't know it was a 30% chance, thanks. Although I figured it was around 1/4.

Interesting. Is the trip animation long enough to hit them with a f smash (d smash?), or do they have time to roll a way?

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure they can roll away before they get hit with f-smash, and d-smash doesn't have enough range.

nice finds Jeepy (I gotta visit this thread more...), I especially found the "weird" animations funny...
heh if I can catch something like that in a screenie and make a sig it would be funny XD

Hey, thanks!

That would be one strange sig. Not that you need another one... *Hint, Hint*

 

[PSYCHE]

So today I hit with the tip of FP and then f smashed them. I dont know if they could have moved earlier, but it worked and it was pretty awesome.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Well, yeah, if they don't move, they will get hit, but I'm sure they have enough time and invincibility frames to evade it.

 

[PSYCHE]

So, I just reealized that trip>f-smash completely doesn't work...

...

Btw, when are you gonna put that strange d-air video up?

 

[Tallen]

1. Lucario's first Jab is a backhand O.O I never knew that! Not just a backhand, a backhand with a spike on it!

after reading this I went to training mode and checked the full jab animation in slow-motion, and crap it's really clear now how inspired it really was from kung-fu o.o
1. Lucario's first punch (backhanded one) is really similar to La (the same move: advancing with the back of the left hand) with the exception that Lucario's jab is directed to the body (no doubt to damage the opponent) while in kung-fu La is used to disrupt the attacker by directing it to his head and making him open his guard for the next attack:
2. Lucario's second jab attack is the EXACT same as Cheung-nan-choi (or the panther's paw): lightning quick and directed to the ribs of the offender for serious damage (or the head, directed at the eyes to impair the opponent's view). in fact a standard advanced combo is exactly using La to make the opponent open his guard in the stomach to follow up with the panther's paw.
3. Lucario's third attack (the kick) could be any martial arts kick in the world, but it still reminds of kung-fu's straight kick, with the similarity that both Luc's and kung-fu's kick is to push the opponent away instead of dealing damage (though Louie does both at the same time). This is ALSO chained to La and panther's paw, though rarely used because there are better attacks to finish. (my personal favorite is chat-gum: a strong pushing motion with the right hand to make the opponent lose his breath in battle, do it properly and he won't be able to breathe properly for one full minute =3)
pure curiosity, I know, but still fun =D

 

[betterthanbonds9]

after reading this I went to training mode and checked the full jab animation in slow-motion, and crap it's really clear now how inspired it really was from kung-fu o.o
1. Lucario's first punch (backhanded one) is really similar to La (the same move: advancing with the back of the left hand) with the exception that Lucario's jab is directed to the body (no doubt to damage the opponent) while in kung-fu La is used to disrupt the attacker by directing it to his head and making him open his guard for the next attack:
2. Lucario's second jab attack is the EXACT same as Cheung-nan-choi (or the panther's paw): lightning quick and directed to the ribs of the offender for serious damage (or the head, directed at the eyes to impair the opponent's view). in fact a standard advanced combo is exactly using La to make the opponent open his guard in the stomach to follow up with the panther's paw.
3. Lucario's third attack (the kick) could be any martial arts kick in the world, but it still reminds of kung-fu's straight kick, with the similarity that both Luc's and kung-fu's kick is to push the opponent away instead of dealing damage (though Louie does both at the same time). This is ALSO chained to La and panther's paw, though rarely used because there are better attacks to finish. (my personal favorite is chat-gum: a strong pushing motion with the right hand to make the opponent lose his breath in battle, do it properly and he won't be able to breathe properly for one full minute =3)
pure curiosity, I know, but still fun =D

i....think i love you (and of course the sig)....weird

 

[ArkUmbra~]

Very useful information~
Been lurking here for quite some time, and this is one of the threads that has helped my game immensely.

Having trouble with Rapid D-air ISJR and Edge-canceling at the moment though. The Rapid D-air I can only manage inconsistently on a low speed, and Edge-Cancel I can't seem to get at all. All in due time, I suppose.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

1. Lucario's first punch (backhanded one) is really similar to La (the same move: advancing with the back of the left hand) with the exception that Lucario's jab is directed to the body (no doubt to damage the opponent) while in kung-fu La is used to disrupt the attacker by directing it to his head and making him open his guard for the next attack:
2. Lucario's second jab attack is the EXACT same as Cheung-nan-choi (or the panther's paw): lightning quick and directed to the ribs of the offender for serious damage (or the head, directed at the eyes to impair the opponent's view). in fact a standard advanced combo is exactly using La to make the opponent open his guard in the stomach to follow up with the panther's paw.
3. Lucario's third attack (the kick) could be any martial arts kick in the world, but it still reminds of kung-fu's straight kick, with the similarity that both Luc's and kung-fu's kick is to push the opponent away instead of dealing damage (though Louie does both at the same time). This is ALSO chained to La and panther's paw, though rarely used because there are better attacks to finish. (my personal favorite is chat-gum: a strong pushing motion with the right hand to make the opponent lose his breath in battle, do it properly and he won't be able to breathe properly for one full minute =3)
pure curiosity, I know, but still fun =D

Pure awesomeness. Added.

So, I just reealized that trip>f-smash completely doesn't work...

...

Btw, when are you gonna put that strange d-air video up?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the trip knocks them too far away to f-smash.

And the video will be up either today or tomorrow.

Very useful information~
Been lurking here for quite some time, and this is one of the threads that has helped my game immensely.

Having trouble with Rapid D-air ISJR and Edge-canceling at the moment though. The Rapid D-air I can only manage inconsistently on a low speed, and Edge-Cancel I can't seem to get at all. All in due time, I suppose.

I appreciate it!

Rapid D-air ISJR and Edge-canceling are by far the most difficult Lucario techniques. This is how I practicen ISJR:

First, I do it in training mode in 1/4 speed. I jump, immeadiately double jump, and listen for the sound Lucario makes when he double jumps, and how long afterward I need to d-air. Also, watch Lucario's animation. His head will be just able parallel to the ground. That's when you d-air.

Once you can do it pretty consistantly in 1/4 speed, try in 1/2 speed, and eventually start practicing in normal speed.

In normal speed, choose Lucario as your opponent and d-air once you are as high as Lucario is tall.

It's a very long process, and still the most I've ever done is 7, but I can see it being very useful for Lucario.


I don't really have a specific way I practice Edge-canceling, but in reality, I don't see it being very useful. My only advice is to aim extreme speed at the corner of the edge, but slightly higher, so you will fall onto the stage...if that makes sense.

 

[Ark22]

Lucario is just too extreme. Extremespeed, Extreme Hog, Extreme Awesome, MORE EXTREME THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR [/powerthirst quote]

Has anyone found a way to reliably get a footstool jump? Perhaps out of a fair? Or maybe up throw > footstool? Footstool jump to Dair seems like a good way to get a direct hit, but I haven't found any reliable way to get it.

 

[Nodrak]

Has anyone found a way to reliably get a footstool jump? Perhaps out of a fair? Or maybe up throw > footstool? Footstool jump to Dair seems like a good way to get a direct hit, but I haven't found any reliable way to get it.

I only ever attempt it when the opponent is recovering ... and Yoshi. Most other times it's not worth doing. I don't think you can combo into it, but it's really all just about placing yourself over someone's character and hoping they don't uair.

 

[Ark22]

I just checked, and you can combo Fair > footstool > Dair on most characters at low to mid percents. Fair > footstool worked reliably on Snake up to around 80%. It does not work as well on the smaller characters, but I was able to get it every once in a while.

One use I found was to double Fair someone off the edge to drag them down, then use the footstool to recover while simultaneously making them lose even more height. This could be useful against DK and other characters with bad vertical recovery or against Snake and other characters with gimpable recovery.

 

[MysticKenji]

If you aim your Extreme Speed at the roof of Luigi's Mansion, you will bounce off and land lagless. You can do all sorts of cool t If you aim your Extreme Speed at the roof of Luigi's Mansion, you will bounce off and land lagless. You can do all sorts of cool things out of it.

Why has no one noticed this yet?

 

[Nodrak]

Ignore this

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Oh, whoops! Major sentence error! Thanks.

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

Weird Pivot Slide

I haven't been able to recreate this. Usually, when Lucario does a Pivot to Jab A, he stops in his tracks. If you can recreate this, please tell me, or if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzytxC75bA

If we could learn how to do this, it could be useful.

I am not 100% on where this was posted but.... what Lucario did there has been put in the Advanced Tech boards as some weird reverse walking move... They posted a video on it using Falco I forgot what it was called... (I'll try to look for it in a bit don't the time at the moment)

Pretty much you walk forward and turn around and then turn back around all while keeping your forward momentum going.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I think I know what you are talking about. People were calling it "Tard Trot", yes? I remember reading about that, and trying it, but I couldn't get it so that Lucario moved backwards WHILE jabbing. I could get him to move backwards and then jab, but never at the same time. Anyway, if I am thinking of something else, or if anyone is able to do it, I'd love to know how!

 

[PSYCHE]

Actually, i think ive done the sliding pivot jab thing while doing the "tard trot". Not consistantly, but im pretty sure ive done it.

 

[Tallen]

i....think i love you (and of course the sig)....weird

well, duh! crazy posts, cute sig and kung fu fighting > all XD
though my sis drew my sig, so depending on your orientation you might love her instead.

To Jeepy: if I find any other similarities among Lucario's attacks and Kung-fu i'll post them up, but I'm busy as hell this week (as usual...)

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

I think I know what you are talking about. People were calling it "Tard Trot", yes? I remember reading about that, and trying it, but I couldn't get it so that Lucario moved backwards WHILE jabbing. I could get him to move backwards and then jab, but never at the same time. Anyway, if I am thinking of something else, or if anyone is able to do it, I'd love to know how!

Yeah thats the tech i was talking about

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Alright, so I tested it out a bit, and yeah, I've done it a couple of times, but like psyche said, not consistently. I've tried it out in slow motion, and I still cannot figure out what it is that makes him jab and move backwards simultaneously. If anyone knows how to do it consistently, that'd be great.

 

[PSYCHE]

Three things:

1.) Why havent you uploaded my video yet? : (

2.) In response to your question above me, Im pretty sure theres no specific way to do it consistantly.

3.) I need help with dash attack. When are some good times to use it, and what is it's main purpose?

 

[Jeepy Sol]

1.) Fine! Here!:


D-air Momentum Glitch

So, Lucario's D-air is supposed to stop your momentum.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LDJGf0qm6-4

I know this glitch is pretty insignificant, but it's interesting nonetheless.




2.) I doubt it. There's got to be a way to do it, we just haven't figured out HOW.

3.) Combo starter. A great one, at that. Dash Attack> u-tilt or Dash Attack> sh N-air are delicious.

 

[tedward2000]

So basically, you SH and then Dair.
I think im missing the glitch.
I don't see anything.
-t2

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

So basically, you SH and then Dair.
I think im missing the glitch.
I don't see anything.
-t2

He should of stayed above the ground and finished the D Air (took me a couple of tries to see it too)

This has happened to me several times while I am higher up in the air. I treated it like when you are Toon Link or Sonic or Zamus when you Down Air and you don't go flying downward but in my cases I have been hit up by an opponent and in your case it is your jump so that is kinda weird.

 

[tedward2000]

OH! I get it now. Yea, I've done it a few times too, but I never really took note of it.
How it show in the vid, and when i've seen it, is that only one of the kicks hits, while the other misses, because Lucarios second hit is in the ground. Then you jab, but because of the momentum of the missed D-air, you move backwards for some reason.
-t2

 

[Nodrak]

Is it due to a fast fall after the dair?

 

[tedward2000]

Again, I never took note of it. So I really don't know, But when I do it again, I'll be sure to save the vid, and find out what causes it.
-t2