Because that's not the same thing. There's much more vulnerability if you slam into the ground than into a ceiling. For one, you can't attack directly out of it until you fully recover. With the ceiling, you bounce off and continue moving quickly, and then when you reach the ground again, YOU know where you are/will be, but the opponent does not immediately. Not only do you have surprised, but you have a 0-frame recovery time, enabling you to do something right when you land, making it actually feasible if practiced.
-
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Assembly of Unfamiliar Information: Give Jeepy Something to Test!
- Thread starter Jeepy Sol
- Start date
Timbers
check me out
lol jeepy no one's mad at you.
It's not like you were plotting this since the very beginning to destroy Lucarios by giving inaccurate frame data.
But I will be trying to get some for this thread in the upcoming week(s)
It's not like you were plotting this since the very beginning to destroy Lucarios by giving inaccurate frame data.
But I will be trying to get some for this thread in the upcoming week(s)
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
you dont have to be sorry, everyone makes mistakes so it ok. Anyways its not like you screwed all lucarios playstyle and metagame or did you? nah just jk its ok.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
In addition to what Milln said, you also lose your Extremespeed.
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
correct me if im wrong but isn't the point of extreme awesome hitting the ceiling at an angle, bouncing off and landing with 0 lag to execute an attack instantaneously?
the technique im referring to is fundamentally the same except you hit the gound at an angle instead of the ceiling.
if i'm getting something wrong can somebody please clarify things for me
the technique im referring to is fundamentally the same except you hit the gound at an angle instead of the ceiling.
if i'm getting something wrong can somebody please clarify things for me
/\ is not the same as \/
You can't land upside down on ceilings and you can't attack immediately upon reaching the ground. You're on the ground, VULNERABLE, for a good second before you can do anything, whereas ExtremeAwesome moves you very quickly over a distance and you really won't get hit until you start coming back down.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
Ground EA:
1. Sends you about the same distance as your roll
2. Leaves you very vulnerable
3. Makes you lose your UpB
4. Obvious and punishable
Ceiling EA:
1. Goes across Luigi's Mansion
2. No lag
3. You still have ES
4. Also obvious but harder to punish
Therefore, Ceiling EA > Ground EA
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
@ Infi-tan and MysticKenji
thx for clearing that up for me guys
thx for clearing that up for me guys
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Right after I released my "Ledge Tricks" video, I discovered another one. I haven't put it in a video because I've been trying to discover more so that It wouldn't be just 1 trick.
Does anyone know of any other "Ledge Tricks" that aren't in my first video/common knowledge?
Does anyone know of any other "Ledge Tricks" that aren't in my first video/common knowledge?
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
**** YOU! stupid dumb jeepy made me suck
jk
umm, drop>jump>uair>ledgegrab, works well on battlefield.
and if you have crazy fast hands maybe you can do that thing milln does with the pseudo stick aurasphere onto the platform. Btw, i think in your original vid you showed one of the few uses of FP flame
.
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
*Bowser laugh*
Yeah, that's a thought. I'm gonna test some stuff at other levels too before I make it.umm, drop>jump>uair>ledgegrab, works well on battlefield.
and if you have crazy fast hands maybe you can do that thing milln does with the pseudo stick aurasphere onto the platform. Btw, i think in your original vid you showed one of the few uses of FP flame
Also. I have a stickied thread in the Jigglypuff boards where people ask me to test things and I do. I thought I would start that up here instead of making a new thread. So, if you have aything, anything (besides frame data...) that you would like me to test, go ahead and ask.
DuskMarthWater
Dude.
I'll try and get some videos up sometime soon. You can post those up as fancy stuff to do, in general. I'll make one specifically for the special ways of using b/pseudo sticking, and one for other stuff like cancelling your lag on the up-B on the ledge.
Stuff to test out? Hmmm...yea I got nothin'. Sorry Jeepy.
Stuff to test out? Hmmm...yea I got nothin'. Sorry Jeepy.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
DOUBLE TEAM FRAME DATA!!!!!! >_>
umm...for testing...how about checking the invincibility on lucario for his 100%+ ledge attack, i dont know how many people i've gotten to attack that because he looks SO ****ing vulnerable, but he's got super armor. Also test if uair's puff remains a hitbox if you ff. I can't think of anything else atm
umm...for testing...how about checking the invincibility on lucario for his 100%+ ledge attack, i dont know how many people i've gotten to attack that because he looks SO ****ing vulnerable, but he's got super armor. Also test if uair's puff remains a hitbox if you ff. I can't think of anything else atm
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Alright.
Double Team hitbox comes out on frame FLIP YOU!
For the 100%+ Ledge attack, it is not super armor frames, but invincibility frames. He is invulnerable all the way until hitbox comes out, and even a tiny bit afterwords. That's about as specific as I can get.
I tested the u-air hitbox a little while ago. The the animation of the "puff ball" stays in place, but according to Timbers, the hitbox will follow Lucario's foot. And I trust Timbers.
Anyone got anything else for me to test? =3
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
I've always been interested in knowing for certain which characters' uairs beat out Lucci's dair.
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Testing Implied Priority is hard. Especially because I didn't have anyone to test with me. 
Anyway, attacks with implied priority won't clank. They can trade hits, but they'll never clank. So it basically comes down to what attack has more "disjointedness" (ie. range).
This is what I came up with:
Link's/TL's u-air will trade hits with our d-air.
Zelda's u-air outranges our d-air.
Ivysaur's u-air beats our d-air.
Olimar's u-air beats our d-air.
And I'm pretty sure that's it. I only tested characters who have u-airs with disjointed hitboxes. Luc's d-air's hitbox is larger than all of the other character's u-airs.
Anybody got anything else? =3
Anyway, attacks with implied priority won't clank. They can trade hits, but they'll never clank. So it basically comes down to what attack has more "disjointedness" (ie. range).
This is what I came up with:
Link's/TL's u-air will trade hits with our d-air.
Zelda's u-air outranges our d-air.
Ivysaur's u-air beats our d-air.
Olimar's u-air beats our d-air.
And I'm pretty sure that's it. I only tested characters who have u-airs with disjointed hitboxes. Luc's d-air's hitbox is larger than all of the other character's u-airs.
Anybody got anything else? =3
Jeeps, could you test if dtilt really does has IASA frames? I know we've talked about it before, but nobody was ever really sure whether it did or didn't.
Oh, and if you're into that priority stuff, could you test if and at what % will FC aura spheres outprioritize ROB's ftilt?
Oh, and if you're into that priority stuff, could you test if and at what % will FC aura spheres outprioritize ROB's ftilt?
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Yeah, Kenji and I were talking about it in the guide. It does in fact have IASA frames. I don't know the frame, but it's at about the time when Lucario brings his hand back.
As for the FCAS outprioritizing ROB's f-tilt, it does so at 58%+.
Moar plx. =3
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
omg yay Jeepy is doing Q&A :D OK here are minez:
1.Do you Think Lucario can make any use of Grab Release?
After Watching Inner Fire 11 I started wondering wether lucario can make any use of the releases :o
when picking up Martha (to combat G&W and still keep Disjoints & Range) i learned that Grab releases can be scary :U
2.Do you think we can get a list of Moves that cancel out BAS?
I was bored yesterday and tried this out when looking through Lucario VS ROB (Be sure to check out the picture too lolz) and I was amazed at how many moves cancel out the awesome projectile It seems that the characters that already have a reflector can cancel them with most of their attacks.*Falco can with all his tilts & smashes <_<)
and... uh well thats it ;_; I thought I could come up with a 3rd but my mind Punked out on me =(
1.Do you Think Lucario can make any use of Grab Release?
After Watching Inner Fire 11 I started wondering wether lucario can make any use of the releases :o
when picking up Martha (to combat G&W and still keep Disjoints & Range) i learned that Grab releases can be scary :U
2.Do you think we can get a list of Moves that cancel out BAS?
I was bored yesterday and tried this out when looking through Lucario VS ROB (Be sure to check out the picture too lolz) and I was amazed at how many moves cancel out the awesome projectile
It seems that the characters that already have a reflector can cancel them with most of their attacks.*Falco can with all his tilts & smashes <_<)and... uh well thats it ;_; I thought I could come up with a 3rd but my mind Punked out on me =(
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
omg yay Jeepy is doing Q&A :D OK here are minez:
1.Do you Think Lucario can make any use of Grab Release?
After Watching Inner Fire 11 I started wondering wether lucario can make any use of the releases :o
when picking up Martha (to combat G&W and still keep Disjoints & Range) i learned that Grab releases can be scary :U
2.Do you think we can get a list of Moves that cancel out BAS?
I was bored yesterday and tried this out when looking through Lucario VS ROB (Be sure to check out the picture too lolz) and I was amazed at how many moves cancel out the awesome projectile
and... uh well thats it ;_; I thought I could come up with a 3rd but my mind Punked out on me =(
1.) It's funny that you mention that. I was just messing around against a lvl. 9, and noticed that if you grab Ness in the air, you get a free aerial (f-air/n-air work best). Unfortunately, I don't have another person to test with, so if anyone is up for it, please post here with your results. You might also want to try it on Lucas and Wario. I no one is up to it, I can try to find someone else, but it may be a while.
2.) Any specific characters you would like me to try it with? All characters, and all moves, is a little much.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
hmmmm maybe you could just confirm the fact that those with a Reflector can Cancel out BAS with their normal moves anyhow? I'd work on the list If I had the time...... and if I wasn't pro at procastination
Dear Jeeps,
Find out why Aura Sphere (I've only done it with Fully Charged if it matters) sometimes hits Wolf anyway when he brings out his reflector. It completely ignores the shine. I think it has something to do with the invincibility frames. When you find out the cause, see if it applies to other characters with similars moves.
Thanks,
-Milln
Find out why Aura Sphere (I've only done it with Fully Charged if it matters) sometimes hits Wolf anyway when he brings out his reflector. It completely ignores the shine. I think it has something to do with the invincibility frames. When you find out the cause, see if it applies to other characters with similars moves.
Thanks,
-Milln
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
right at the beginning of his reflector? That's Super armor like Olimar's downb
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Ok. All characters with reflectors. Crossed out ones means that it doesn't outprioritize BAS.
Mario:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
U-smash
D-smash
Fox:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
Zelda:
F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
U-smash
D-smash
Pit:
Jab
F-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
D-smash
Falco:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
Wolf:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt (He'll sometimes jump over it)
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
ROB:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
D-smash
Ness:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
Lucas:
Jab
F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
What Bondzy said. I actually didn't know that until he said it, so thanks.
I'm pretty sure that it is Wolf specific.
Anyone got anything else? =3
Timbers
check me out
Not super armor >_> It's invincibility frames. The reflector doesn't actually reflect until after the invincibility is over with.
It's Wolf specific though.
Timbers
check me out
I read your post wrong Milln lol. I thought you meant the aurasphere just travelled on through him.
I dunno. I've seen it happen to Falco before too, and to my knowledge Falco doesn't have invincibility frames.
I dunno. I've seen it happen to Falco before too, and to my knowledge Falco doesn't have invincibility frames.
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Mmkay. Anyone got anything else for me?
=3
=3
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Just came to thought.
If you to DT Ness (or Lucas) while he's recovering in the air, will it effect where they keep going?
Just came to mind, and its simple to test.
-t2
If you to DT Ness (or Lucas) while he's recovering in the air, will it effect where they keep going?
Just came to mind, and its simple to test.
-t2
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Not with only 1 person.
Once I get someone else, I'll get right on that. And I'm still looking at the d-air thing.
In the meantime, anyone can post a request.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
okay what's the difference between super armor and invincibilty frames now, the fact that you take damage?
I thought wolf took damage if he used his reflector at the perfect time...but if it's not damaging then yeah, that makes sense.
I thought wolf took damage if he used his reflector at the perfect time...but if it's not damaging then yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, super armor you take % but there's no knockback. Invincibility you have neither.
I know it's not really practical, but has anyone figured out why sometimes AS will drop to the ground when interrupted? We've known about the glitch for a while now, but I don't think anyone has an explanation for it yet. Gotta be some sort of priority thing going on....probably similar to Ness's new YYG.
I know it's not really practical, but has anyone figured out why sometimes AS will drop to the ground when interrupted? We've known about the glitch for a while now, but I don't think anyone has an explanation for it yet. Gotta be some sort of priority thing going on....probably similar to Ness's new YYG.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
drop to the ground or follow along a different plane and seem to be half inside and half out?
wha'ts the yyg?
Aura Sphere glitch (2:17)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-EWoJB0fMI
Ness's YYG in Brawl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoggv25pPns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-EWoJB0fMI
Ness's YYG in Brawl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoggv25pPns
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
woah, never seen either of those before O_o
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
omg I remembered the 3rd thing =o :
Can Lucario's Sliding pivot Grab improve our grab range? some of the falco's in my area used it
to some success. I thought it MIGHT work out for lucario as Their running grabs are similar. BUT
I don't think the traction's nor the grab range is the same. I'd also like to ask after the Test if you think sliding
Shield grab would be more efficient even if this lead to plausible results.I highly doubt it though
BTW: **** my suspicions were right <_< but I can still spam BAS VS Zelduh to keep here from using Din's Fire at least :]
then DT ^_^ then...... something crazeh!!! D:<
Can Lucario's Sliding pivot Grab improve our grab range? some of the falco's in my area used it
to some success. I thought it MIGHT work out for lucario as Their running grabs are similar. BUT
I don't think the traction's nor the grab range is the same. I'd also like to ask after the Test if you think sliding
Shield grab would be more efficient even if this lead to plausible results.I highly doubt it though
BTW: **** my suspicions were right <_< but I can still spam BAS VS Zelduh to keep here from using Din's Fire at least :]
then DT ^_^ then...... something crazeh!!! D:<
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
It doesn't seem like Lucario can make good use of a sliding anything. **** those cement feet of his.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Very True Stauffenbody
also I just though of something while messing in training mode: can lucario Use His Dair
like Mario uses his cape to Refresh invincibility Frames and edgegaurd at the same time?
Dair doesn't go up though so I had to do a midair jump before Dairing <.< sometimes if you mess it up though you might be in a bind and be DIing towards the ledge, NOT grabbing it and going downwards towards the Boundary line.
but then we can use lucario's 1337sauce recovery =P but it adds to a risk.
bottom line:Can we use The bolded? if an Slightly overweight Italian plumber in red apparel can pull it off. I FOR **** KNOW A AWESOME JACKAL WITH BLUE FIRE, SPIKES ON HIS HANDS & CHEST AND BLUE FIRE[not to mention a pwnsome Ledge Grab range] CAN PULL IT OFF :U
also I just though of something while messing in training mode: can lucario Use His Dair
like Mario uses his cape to Refresh invincibility Frames and edgegaurd at the same time?
Dair doesn't go up though so I had to do a midair jump before Dairing <.< sometimes if you mess it up though you might be in a bind and be DIing towards the ledge, NOT grabbing it and going downwards towards the Boundary line.
but then we can use lucario's 1337sauce recovery =P but it adds to a risk.
bottom line:Can we use The bolded?
if an Slightly overweight Italian plumber in red apparel can pull it off. I FOR **** KNOW A AWESOME JACKAL WITH BLUE FIRE, SPIKES ON HIS HANDS & CHEST AND BLUE FIRE[not to mention a pwnsome Ledge Grab range] CAN PULL IT OFF :U
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Yeah, Lucario can do it with d-air, but like you said, you have to do a ledgehop first. You can't just drop and d-air; you won't regrab the ledge if you do this (unless you second jump). But yeah, that's basically it.Very True Stauffenbody
also I just though of something while messing in training mode: can lucario Use His Dair
like Mario uses his cape to Refresh invincibility Frames and edgegaurd at the same time?
Dair doesn't go up though so I had to do a midair jump before Dairing <.< sometimes if you mess it up though you might be in a bind and be DIing towards the ledge, NOT grabbing it and going downwards towards the Boundary line.
but then we can use lucario's 1337sauce recovery =P but it adds to a risk.
bottom line:Can we use The bolded?
Anyone got anything else? =3
ok i don't know if anyone has figured this out already and posted in this thread but the momentum glitch on the d-air where it fastfalls instead of stalling. It is something that happens to me at least once or twice per game. I have noticed it to occur most often when i am just hit by an attack very similar to gw and toon links d-air which do the exact opposite after they recently get hit which is stall. So what i have found it most useful for is surprising the enemy after hitting me with a weak attack when i am above them and immediately d-air so it fastfalls just enough to come back down and connect when they are shieldless because they expect it to stall. If you would like i can post alot of clips of me doing this or you can test it yourself.