Ask Skler about Link!

[Ripple]

10. slow link vs. fast link ?

thanks.

me and legan could settle this question. I play very slow and he plays fast and we could play each other to determine the answer.

 

[Skler]

im swtiching up my Link, like the other way around. My link is too fast but i make a lot of mistakes which basically ****s up my games.

alright Skler, i need supreme help.

1. what do i do when im getting waveshined ?

2. shield pressure with fox's shine ? like he would waveshine my shield, like he goes from the front of my
shield then to the back then come to the front again and he just mixes it up.

3. how do you deal with fast foxs, falcons, falco and sheiks ?

4. assuming that you think(which i know you do) when you play Link, do you have tricks to get them in a grab ? for example making mistakes then when you see him going in for a punish you switch out and get him in a grab.

5. what move should i use to punish my opponents reactions? for example, i throw him near the edge and then i wait for him to spot dodge or roll then move in with an attack.

6. against fox's that uses reflectors to counter projectiles, should i throw the bomb or rang first ?

7. what do I do against sweet spotting firefox and illusions ? nair of the edge, dtilt, ftilt, nair ledge hop, throwing bombs down is what i do but something they fail.

8. grab or dsmash when I cc my opponent at low percent (against fox, falco, falcon and such) ?

9. in stage(Ftilts/Dtilts/Dsmashes/Scrah) or off stage(nair/bair/ nair ledge hop) edgeguard ? also do you think drop from ledge grab to DJ Bair or nair be effective when edge guarding? something like the bair edge guard of sheik, marth and fox.

10. slow link vs. fast link ?

thanks for helping me in advance, sorry if its a lot but i have to ask. some players might have these questions but they dont bother asking.

thanks.

1. Mix up DI (SDI if you can) between away and towards. If you DI away he has to do perfect WDs, if you DI towards a perfect WD sends him behind you and makes it extremely hard to follow up.

2. Roll, spin out of shield (WD has enough lag to allow that most of the time), take a hit and DI it away/down or spot dodge to try and throw off their timing. There isn't one reliable way, you just need to take a guess based off their tech skill and overall strategy.

3. Jab a lot, CC a lot and spam nairs. Don't approach unless you have to or a projectile hit and space everything. Try not to get caught in your shield because they can all **** it, jab spam and FJ nairs are better than your shield against those characters. Make sure every hit counts and don't mess up any edgeguards.

4. Aside from the normal ones (fair -> grab, nair -> grab, bair -> grab) you can grab predictable approaches like Fox's sh nair if you just WD back into a grab. Predict where they'll land (only works if they use an attack early/double jump) and throw out a grab. Grabs are really risky though and I try not to use them too much. Platform tech chase grabs are also really good since Link's hookshot covers every platform in the game. If they stay down you can just jab -> grab since it makes them stand up.

5. Utilt most of the time (for combos), grab if they're at a high % (it sets up for a kill on pretty much every character) or a really low % (since you can't follow anything up but a tech) and spin (try to get the spike) if they're close to the edge to get that early kill.

6. Approach them with a SH bomb throw spaced so the reflected bomb will go over you or hit the ground in front of you. The reflector lags a lot when it gets hit by a projectile and you can usually grab/dash attack them if they use it. The boomerang has too much lag to follow up against the reflector.

7. Depends, if they're going for the illusion and you can tell just edgehog, if they try and get on the stage you can just edgehop nair to hit them out of it and keep them off (risky against Falco, but you can call what he's doing easier). Against an illusion where you don't have time to get on the edge or aren't sure what they'll do you should ftilt. If they try to firefox and you don't have time to hit them with a boomerang/arrow (bombs don't make them lose enough height so I don't like them off the stage) either jump off the edge with the nair or ftilt. If you suspect a sweetspot get on the edge and just hog it, if they go for the stage then you can always edgehop nair and then turn around -> jab or sh nair again in case they teched it and went for an illusion (since most sweetspots are wallrides you should expect the tech if you nair them). The boomerangs can limit them too, so I suggest throwing a boomerang directly across from the stage before you do anything (unless they're obviously going to be below it, in which case you can just hit them with the rang or an arrow to kill them).

8. Dsmash, most of their attacks are too fast to get grabbed out of. If you can CC grab them then do it, but the dsmash is safer.

9. Off stage is better if you have the time to do it and are sure it will kill. On stage is better if you don't have enough time or think jumping out won't kill them. You can get the best of both worlds by throwing projectiles on stage (destroys firefox/firebird and the illusion) and then hanging out on the edge, but since they lack high knockback they're usually only good against fast fallers/characters that rely on momentum or fancy tricks (marth, samus and other Links are the momentum/trick people).

10. It depends on the matchup and the player, but it's important you know how to do both. If you set the pace you can win, force the opponent to play a style that they aren't comfortable with. Slow down fast players and speed up slow players, switch it up mid game/set if things aren't working out. Link has a lot of styles and you need to know them to win against good players. I can play campy and gay if I need to (those don't get recorded a lot though, although one did recently) and I can play like a Marth with a smaller sword and worse moves. Even if you can play one way almost perfectly good players with better characters can beat you because Link doesn't have one strategy that will work all the time. You have to mix it up to win against better players with Link.

 

[vitorswimer]

Thanks Skler!!!!!!
Good topic.

 

[cody420]

Now this guy knows wut hes talking about. IMO, tiers dont apply to Link if u know his game well.

My question is, How can u make Z-air more effectove? Thats the ONLY move i cant get down to perfection.

 

[Skler]

It's a horrible move and should only be used as a last resort. It just isn't a good attack, I use it if I have to airdodge for some reason and need to stop their punish.

You shouldn't try to use the zair as an attack, just as a last ditch defensive move.

 

[Stos]

ty skler =D

 

[cody420]

It's a horrible move and should only be used as a last resort. It just isn't a good attack, I use it if I have to airdodge for some reason and need to stop their punish.

You shouldn't try to use the zair as an attack, just as a last ditch defensive move.

Yea thats how i usually use it. I figured it had more good then that.

 

[vitorswimer]

I think the spam with link one of the most important things he can offer but has certain matches that is impossible, when he plays in short stages against fast characters.

In Japan ssbm the rules of the stages are Dreamland and Final Destination, (Like you said about the rules) so is good for link do spam against all characters.

I think big stages is better to play doing spam and short stages is possible against some characters.

 

[Spife]

Now this guy knows wut hes talking about. IMO, tiers dont apply to Link if u know his game well.

My question is, How can u make Z-air more effectove? Thats the ONLY move i cant get down to perfection.

Don't listen to Skler on this one. I know how to make it effective and this is one places where our opinions differ. I think the Spair (Spife air) is the BEST kill move...if your opponent is over 900+% and just broke free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSqaXX6wHc

but no if you use it they'll **** on your ****

 

[Spife]

3. Jab a lot, CC a lot and spam nairs. Don't approach unless you have to or a projectile hit and space everything. Try not to get caught in your shield because they can all **** it, jab spam and FJ nairs are better than your shield against those characters. Make sure every hit counts and don't mess up any edgeguards.


6. Approach them with a SH bomb throw spaced so the reflected bomb will go over you or hit the ground in front of you. The reflector lags a lot when it gets hit by a projectile and you can usually grab/dash attack them if they use it. The boomerang has too much lag to follow up against the reflector.
.

3 is some really good advice. Like I don't mean to ride SKler here but that advice is ****.

I'd say with 6, and I practically live by this, watch em and you'll know when they're not thinking about the match anymore but thinking about your projectile. Their characters body language changes and all. Flit about and then upthrow the bomb and rush in with what ever you want (grabs at low percent, dair/up b at high percents).. I realized that they can't really jump cancel the shine unless they basically power shield with the shine.

 

[Stos]

i have a lot of troubles i against his fox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Tmi8urjsg

then a sheik like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIjfTsQneI

 

[Skler]

None of those videos have Link >.>

 

[ThreeX]

i have a lot of troubles i against his fox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Tmi8urjsg

then a sheik like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIjfTsQneI

this is a link thread... but i'm sorry, in vid 1, 2nd stock.. that **** was too sexy.. lmfao.


question about link to keep it on topic: skler what is link's favorite color aside from green B)

 

[Skler]

Probably blue.

 

[HiIH]

What about DOUBLE GREEN?

 

[Skler]

Link is usually dressed in double green.

 

[Shaeman111]

i have a lot of troubles i against his fox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Tmi8urjsg

then a sheik like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIjfTsQneI

That fox is rediculous on pressure and DI following combos...
i'd say theres almost no hope to have an advantage but i'd say use bombs alot more than anything since theyre most effective against pressure and on reflector lag.
also they can set up for sum good long link dash attack and u-air juggles
but as far as the matchup i'd need to see a video of link vs his fox to... get a better idea of what ur working with here. link cant be nair - shine - JC upsmash'd as easily as that falco did =/

and i'm having some troubles with this sheik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa8TAjf0WII

at the end, we have his famous "tope chasing"......

 

[MeHo]

How is bomb sliding done? Do you get a phantom hit on the bomb causing it to slide?

 

[Shaeman111]

i'm not exactly sure really, i can do it..... but its random for me. it's not on command, i usually get it on my 2nd try.
ive experimented so much to see if theres some kind of pattern, but i never got one from it.

the position of the bombs
the timing (asap, right before the bomb explodes, in between)
hitting all sides of the bomb
different slopes

i just drop one on top of the other and.......
the bomb superwavedashes!

in anyone knows PLEASE let us know!!

 

[Skler]

I'm not going to critique videos without a Link in it. People play differently against Link, watching a character vs not Link won't help me know how they take advantage of Link's weaknesses or what they know how to get around.

 

[Stos]

That fox is rediculous on pressure and DI following combos...
i'd say theres almost no hope to have an advantage but i'd say use bombs alot more than anything since theyre most effective against pressure and on reflector lag.
also they can set up for sum good long link dash attack and u-air juggles
but as far as the matchup i'd need to see a video of link vs his fox to... get a better idea of what ur working with here. link cant be nair - shine - JC upsmash'd as easily as that falco did =/

and i'm having some troubles with this sheik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa8TAjf0WII

at the end, we have his famous "tope chasing"......

yeah i get to practise with him like every weekend.
his fox is like the true meaning to ****.
when he came 4th in Kansas I was like O.O
but yeah I'll try to record matches with him, sorry about that Skler.

 

[Shaeman111]

jeez mid U.S. players have no lives!
o_O too much tech skill

 

[Stos]

jeez mid U.S. players have no lives!
o_O too much tech skill

are you talking about Raynex? XD
also Skler.
how do you edgeguard jigs?

 

[RaynEX]

with teh bombs and teh fire. If she pounds do the weak hit upb. If she doesn't spam nair? Run off, double jump towards stage nair.

 

[Shaeman111]

i found link's forward smash can be a GREAT edgeguard against jigs (if you're good with the timing)

and yes stos, i was talking about raynex :/

 

[Stos]

i found link's forward smash can be a GREAT edgeguard against jigs (if you're good with the timing)

and yes stos, i was talking about raynex :/

hes not from US. lol.

yeah i find Fsmash good againt jigs when fighting her generally but not for edgeguard. maybe i'll try that the next time i get my hands on link vs. jigs match up.

also against marth Dthrow Bair Fsmash and Dthrow Fsmash so gay lol.

 

[Shaeman111]

yeah i'd say get your reflexes WAYY ready for that BS.
marth is super retarted. so be ready to read a forward throw or a d-throw!

and oh raynex shouldnt be, cuz we all suck here
this weekend i would have an opportunity to play with mew2king but.... my driver's incapable of taking me. rrg.
i would get some advice from him! *cries*

anyone know how to get around falcorz laser spam??

 

[RaynEX]

get close with boomerang and nair from shield when in mid/close range. Stuff his SHs with bair and laser and get an utilt. You should be able to **** him once you knock him down and read him.

 

[Skler]

For edgeguarding jiggs I suggest either nairs from above (anything done in front of jiggs will get you hit, and that hit will usually be a pound and kill you), or if you can't get above just throw **** and predict where they'll go. Fsmash is good for spacing against jiggs in general since it hits so high, but jiggs players usually won't recover at a spot where they can get fsmashed.

To get around Falco spam get on a platform and use it to get some of your projectiles out. Once you have projectiles in the air you can break the spam for a bit and force him into playing up close. If you're on FD you can FJ bomb pulls and boomerang throws but Falco will pretty much **** you no matter what.

 

[Deva]

You dont edge guard Jiggs lol. You full hop nair her approaches and on her shield, run away, and throw rangs, while proceeding to get back at her with a full hop nair. Then when she realizes she needs to get above you to beat your nair, you u-air and win =P. Or you can be Skler and magically edge guard her cuz your Skler and just that much of a bamf.

Against Falco you can also DI in your sheild away from his shine and sh nair out of shield or if he's too close even for that, you can try rolling. Falco isn't incredibly fast so he wont be able to punish your roll as effectively as some characters. Always have a bomb out and throw it out of shield. It ocassionally goes past the lasers and stay in the air as you approach. After that, as long as you do it right, spacing Falco isnt too difficult. But unless you play perfectly, a half decent falco will always **** you.

 

[Skler]

You can edgeguard a jiggs who's recovering from low for some reason. They're also pretty worried about going above Link most of the time since the uair kills. Edgeguarding jiggs isn't about the kill, she pretty much gains height from getting naired, it's about getting free damage.

I've found Falco players will punish rolls with SHL -> grab a lot. Fortunately that doesn't kill and usually only leads to more grabs, but it's annoying. Falco is so ****ing annoying, but Link lives to about 150+ against him as long as you avoid fsmash/dtilt.

 

[Shaeman111]

haha the only good link players left are posting here

but the other day i realized i was having problems against marth, mainly my DI
i dont know how to DI anything he does, because theres so many options he can do after certain moves,
like, ive been caught in fair-grab, d-tilt-grab, up-tilt-grab, and all the other times it'll usually be a forward smash instead of a grab.

how do i DI if i dont know whats coming?? this marth is really random.
if any of u have seen Ether play....

 

[Skler]

In general you want to DI away from Marth. Unless you have good reason to believe his next move is going to be a finisher you should DI away, and Marth's finishers are usually pretty predictable. It's also handy to buffer rolls/spot dodges after you get hit by him since most Marth players auto grab after landing a hit.

If you're at a low % just CC and dsmash all of his moves, it's worth taking some damage to get Marth above you.

 

[Shaeman111]

In general you want to DI away from Marth. Unless you have good reason to believe his next move is going to be a finisher you should DI away, and Marth's finishers are usually pretty predictable. It's also handy to buffer rolls/spot dodges after you get hit by him since most Marth players auto grab after landing a hit.

If you're at a low % just CC and dsmash all of his moves, it's worth taking some damage to get Marth above you.

wow i never thought of it like that. i get it now, i'll go try all of that out next time.

 

[Stos]

the only marths that bother me is the greedy ones.

they would like land a fair to Utilt. sometimes fair Fsmash. they would fsmash all the time and spot dodge once they land a missed arial.

though once you get around that its pretty much ****. cc their moves to Dsmash, DTilt, Utilt and such. Once theyre above Link its pretty much gg to them.

 

[Deva]

You can edgeguard a jiggs who's recovering from low for some reason. They're also pretty worried about going above Link most of the time since the uair kills. Edgeguarding jiggs isn't about the kill, she pretty much gains height from getting naired, it's about getting free damage.

I've found Falco players will punish rolls with SHL -> grab a lot. Fortunately that doesn't kill and usually only leads to more grabs, but it's annoying. Falco is so ****ing annoying, but Link lives to about 150+ against him as long as you avoid fsmash/dtilt.

Oh ok, lol. I thought you meant for the purpose of getting a kill on jiggs, in that case, nvm. You would want to get some extra damage if you can.

And I would still suggest rolling against a falco on your shield for 2 reasons.

1. If the Falco player is really good, they'll just jc the shine into a grab anyways, so you're getting grabbed no matter what.

2. Even if the Falco lasers you into a grab, there's a chance you can avoid it, and it's better than being auto grabbed out of a shine.

Even then, I'm not saying roll every time Falco get's in your face. Falco would have to space his approach perfectly on your shield for you to have to roll. In most scenarios, the falco will land the approach on your shield far enough away that as long as you DI away in your shield you can usually sh nair out of shield and avoid the shine while having a chance to punish him yourself. The other option they would have to punish you then would be a jab after the approach. then you can just have a habbit of pressing down after you sh nair out of shield so that if they do you're already in the cc position for a d-smash. Of course they have the option of continuing the jab so that you can't d-smash, but at that point you can just roll away since they won't have time to use a laser to grab and you can at least get away from the situation. The main thing to remember with Link is you dont have many options for punishing players compared to how often they can punish you. As long as you play safe and get away from situations that can end badly for you and watch closely for the opportunities to punish them, you will always at least have a fighting chance.

And against Marth, always DI away from his approaches. cc d-smash is a great counter as Skler said. A good strategy is to run away and throw projectiles, usually out of a slow dash dance so that it confuses Marth a little on how to approach you. and when he does, just try to time it so that he has to either weapon cancel the rang or gets hit by a bomb so you can time a sh nair towards him to start a combo. If Link can get Marth above him, it's a really easy game from there. The way I like to look at it, On stage Link and Marth are relatively even if you play it right. However, if Marth get's Link off stage, your chances of recovering are really low. Marth's edge guards against Link are way >>>>>>>>>>than Link's vs Marth. Just pay close attention to staying on the stage and the matchup tends to go pretty smooth.

 

[Shaeman111]

Grr, why cant link have a good matchup against a high tier.......
link requires too much thought

 

[Spife]

I noticed after you send out your hookshot you can DI a very little bit, but is it possible to DI enough before the hookshot hits, that is, so that the further you go in one direction, the hookshot is that much longer? Or is the length of the hookshot from where you first fire it off?

 

[Skler]

The hookshot extends to max length pretty early, the DI helps for a few frames but as soon as the hitbox is gone you can't hook anything.

Fun Fact: If you airdodge off the edge for some reason you can hookshot -> DI back on.

 

[Spife]

The hookshot extends to max length pretty early, the DI helps for a few frames but as soon as the hitbox is gone it you can't hook anything.

Fun Fact: If you airdodge off the edge for some reason you can hookshot -> DI back on.

That is a fun fact, thanks for the info.