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Ask Skler about Link!

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
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I've been kind of bored lately and while I don't feel like writing a Link guide I want to help out all you crazy Melee Link lovers. Feel free to ask me any and ALL Melee Link questions. The Link boards need to be more active anyways, so STEP IT UP!
 

Stos

Loves Pink Poodles
Joined
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Messages
342
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1<3TO
When you shffll Link fair/nair is it better to jab/dsmash/roll away if your opponent is at low percent?

cause i think your opponent could CC nair and do something gay and also sheild grab you (but i tihnk the jab will solve that problem)
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Messages
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If you spaced the fair right it should knock your opponent out of range unless they're Marth or something. If you didn't space right and they CCed it spot dodge/roll, if they CCed your fair they'll probably CC the jab too (or just punish the fair's lag). If they didn't CC you can either grab if the fair knocks them too far or jab/dsmash them.

With the nair you should either jab or dsmash unless they CCed it. If they CCed just shield and either wait for the attack and then grab or spot dodge if you expect them to grab. Link's roll is pretty slow, try not to use it much.
 

Blubba_Pinecone

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
796
Location
under a rock
Hey look it's a Skler! I wondered where you went... Did you quit Brawl? D:

*Incredibly off topic from the thread* lol.


Edit: 400th Post! YEAH.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
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Göteborg, Sweden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3skKID-daM&fmt=18
why did you cc at 0:27
what if she would've dsmashed
like seriously
YOURE INSANE

...on a more serious note, how do I combo fast fallers at low percent? they usually just fall back on the ground before I can do anything when i try to juggle them
Also another question, when you spot dodge after shffls and stuff (to avoid shieldgrabs), do you usally buffer them with the c-stick or do you just time them really well?
 

N64

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
2,158
Location
Stalking Skler
Skler, how do I be as awesome as you? I mean I try fancy combos and never dying and being really tall, but I can't seem to do any of those quite as good as you. Teach me your ways.
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Mar 17, 2006
Messages
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@kirby kraze, that's a little complicated. You need to know Link's weaknesses and abuse them more than the other player. Link can't shield grab much against Link, so you can pressure shields in Link dittos really well. You just need to understand your options better than the other player to put them in positions where you can punish them. Also, nair a lot.

@ Blubba, yeah I pretty much quit Brawl. It just isn't as fun as Melee for me.

@ Mike, Peach's jab has more range than the dsmash, I think I was spaced just far enough to avoid it. The jab was his best option there even if I was in dsmash range since it's faster (if he had gone for the dsmash it probably would have clanked with mine). I'm pretty sure I was out of dsmash range though, or at least **** close to being out.

As far as comboing fastfallers it depends on HOW low. The dsmash is a pretty good bet around 20-40% because it will at least knock them down and allow you to tech chase. At 0% you can't really combo them (you can tech chase out of grabs) unless they get above you. Fresh uairs stun long enough to let you hit with a utilt/dsmash, and after that you'll have to tech chase (unless it was a utilt, that might not knock them down). Usmash can also combo at really low %s if they're behind/above you. The move is really fast and has no lag, it's just unreliable because it can be DIed out of.

@N64, I'd say you're ALREADY THERE.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
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Göteborg, Sweden
Oh I see. You're prolly right about the spacing thing, but Im usually just way to scared to CC against a peach at all cuz of the dsmash... I was just so surprised when I saw you CC (since people almost never do it against peach... cuz of the dsmash) wasnt saying it was a bad move :p
thanks for the advice on comboing fast fallers, never thought of using the usmash as a combo starter.... i gotta try that.
BTW, about the tech chasing, what do you usally do to punish flubbed techs?
 

Blubba_Pinecone

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
796
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under a rock
Ahh, yeah, I suppose you can play Melee with other people so that makes sense. D: Too bad I can't play you in Melee, that would be so much fun. I'm still Brawlin' more or less because of my location, but I also still like it. Only thing I really hate is tripping... and uber uber lag. X_X

Oh, I'm bored, so I hope you don't mind me being an asshat for a second and pointing out things I'm sure you already know the match vs Peach lol.

1. Lol, that CC at 0:27 was gutzy. xD
2. Missed Lcancel on Dair at 0:45 (Ouch >_<)
3. Missed Lcancel on Dair again at 0:51, but wasn't punished from knocked Peach off the platform, lol.
4. Pressed B a liiiiittle bit too late for that UpB out of shield at 2:30. (Ouch again >_<)
5. Missed Lcancel on Dair again again at 2:40, but I don't think it would've saved you anyways since the FF didn't let you shieldbounce.
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Messages
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On top of Milktea
If they miss a tech just jab them and then grab (the jab forces them to stand up neutral unless they were holding a direction, in which case you can still grab the tech). If you want you can dsmash/utilt, but it really depends on the %.

I've got notoriously bad tech skill.
 

Joe_1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
41
Is it possible to gimp fox/ falco using m2k's marth techniques? only using Link?
I always do it again'st my friend but i haven't perfected it.

1. They come near the edge while you are edge stalling.
2. They think u gonna ledge attack, instead u land on stage and grab.
3. Backthrow
4. Backair incase they jump
5. THey would be at low percent so after the backair, jab once.
6. if they illusion catch it with a jab.
7. They fall.
8. turn around jump and neutral-air then for a stage spike.
9. If they somehow survive, use your second jump to neutral air.
10. Air dodge to hookshot back on stage.

I mean link has very good horizontal recovery, i gimp my friends marth alot with neutral air/ back air when hes not expecting it.
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Link's grab is pretty slow and a lot of players just sweetspot the edge with their double jump if you do bthrow them. It would work if they let it work, but a lot of people won't let it work.

It's possible, but too risky and unreliable.
 

Spife

Smash Master
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Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,016
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Neriak
1. Skler how do I get a link sticker so I can be good like you?
2. what to do about an over pressuring shiek?
3. spamming up tilts **** falcon, and spacing aerials, and projectiles, what else?
4. what to do about laser spam?
5. how does the GERM move so fast? I stll don't know -_-
6. why does every non link main projectile spam in dittos?
7. how will I know when I'm in love?
and finally
8. How do you deal with fast opponents (Fox, Shiek, Could be Falco/falcon) that are really agressive to the point where they just man handle you around the stage? Jab and up tilts on fox and I already asked about shiek but ignoring the match up, how does Link contend with speed?
 

Spife

Smash Master
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Skler

i like your name.
Don't believe him! he looks like a ganondorf (more like ganondoof?!?) he's probably trying to lure you in with kindness so he can take away your light arrows. Link forums....ATTAX!
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
Don't believe him! he looks like a ganondorf (more like ganondoof?!?) he's probably trying to lure you in with kindness so he can take away your light arrows. Link forums....ATTAX!
nahh, I got mad respect for Skler.
 

Blubba_Pinecone

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
796
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under a rock
Lol yeah Skler, we all have our good/bad days for tech skill. One time I managed to pull off that Pressing B too late for UpB thing... on my last stock... against a Fox... >_< lol. I think we all know who won that match. xD

Spife: How to move fast like Germ: Keep yo fingers movin'!!! :p (oh yeah, and be smooth)
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
Location
Atlanta, Ga
Hi Skler, sorry you didn't make it to the greatest melee tourney a month or two back.

Anyway....

At 0% have you tried uthrow to Grab on spacies? I don't believe they can grab or buffer a spotdodge unless they di, but land, but I haven't tried against a decent fox/falco, or else I don't land a grab at 0. It's a low enough percent that they don't get sent high enough to jump, but just land. Could they shine out of it?

What do you think of Dthrow, techchase, dthrow, techchase, and then proceed to uthrows? I tried it yesterday at tipped off three and it worked surprisingly well.

I've been having a problem with spammy Peaches and Agressive falco's who know how to shield pressure correctly. I got ***** by nite yesterday >.< so...

Is it better to attempt to catch a peaches turnips or to just jab them? I can catch almost every item thrown my way, but I dunno if that's actually discouraging enough to a peach. Also, if you CC Peach's floating dair, do you run the risk of getting dsmashed HARD or is there some way you can punish it, or even roll away in time?

I've been getting hit pretty hard by pressuring dairs, do I just need to tech/smashdi tech them more? I know on pokemon stadium I got hit by around 4-5 of Falco's dairs in a row(Shine>Dair>Dair>(attempt to drop through the platfrom)Dair(teched), Dair, Naired). Also, should I just eliminate all spot dodges against spacies? I'm trying to think of a situation where I wouldn't get punished but I think they're just TOO FAST for me to punish out of a spotdodge....

Also how big is your's Link's *****?
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,514
Location
On top of Milktea
1. Skler how do I get a link sticker so I can be good like you?
2. what to do about an over pressuring shiek?
3. spamming up tilts **** falcon, and spacing aerials, and projectiles, what else?
4. what to do about laser spam?
5. how does the GERM move so fast? I stll don't know -_-
6. why does every non link main projectile spam in dittos?
7. how will I know when I'm in love?
and finally
8. How do you deal with fast opponents (Fox, Shiek, Could be Falco/falcon) that are really agressive to the point where they just man handle you around the stage? Jab and up tilts on fox and I already asked about shiek but ignoring the match up, how does Link contend with speed?
1. Find a tournament that sells stickers.

2. Space correctly and CC everything that isn't a grab, if you expect a grab either jab or spot dodge. Also, move around a lot while throwing things at her.

3. Nothing Link does really ***** falcon, but those help a lot. Try and keep moving against the fast characters while filling the air with boomerangs and bombs.

4. Either power shield or jump over it and spam your own stuff. On FD you're pretty screwed unless you can power shield.

5. He wavelands a lot and uses perfect WDs that start with a dash. Other than that he shffls a lot, you have to sacrifice some priority to get that speed.

6. They think Link's projectiles are better than all of his other moves. Little do they know is that Links nair is better than all his other moves!

7. SKRAAAAAAAAAAA!

8. Move around and spam, or if they're really on you jab them out of their approaches. You need to waveland whenever possible so they can't just run up and hit you during landing lag (Link's landing lag is more noticeable because most of his moves are slow). Keep the air full of projectiles to slow them down and space well. Link's best defense against speed is good spacing.


@ Renth, <3


@Hihi, yeah it sucks I didn't make it to GA. Grandmother's 80th birthday and such.

The uthrow has a lot of lag to it and doesn't actually knock spacies down until about 25% (give or take a few). They can either shine/nair/jab you before you can regrab them at low %s. You MIGHT be able to usmash them out of it, but that's DI dependent.

I approve of the dthrow techchase at really low %s since space animals can punish the uthrow until about 20%.

I'd avoid the turnips altogether, just dodge and spam back with rangs and bombs. It's tough for Peach to keep pulling turnips if you keep a rang in the air at all times, Peach has better spam (it's faster and can sometimes be a stichface/bob-omb) but she has to sit still to start it. Just don't let her start her spam! if she just shields the rangs and then pulls use the rang as an approach, Link can outspace Peach. Either spam while moving or keep close enough so she can't pull turnips. I wouldn't suggest catching them because making a mistake during that can be costly.

Avoid the dair altogether, but if you're in a position where you're going to eat one DI it in the opposite direction Peach is moving. CCing the dair (depending on the height) will either lead to you getting dsmashed or grabbed. I guess if they're way too high you might be able to hit them, but not for more than the dair does.

You must smash DI falco's shines to avoid getting *****. Try and get to platforms that you can tech on. You can still punish spacies if you spotdodge a grab, and you can mess up their l-cancel timing with dodges (works decently well against their dairs, but good players will still l-cancel it most of the time). Just hide in the shield when they pressure you and roll away or usmash (it's the fastest move Link has out of shield) during an opening if they're behind you. The usmash DOES work during the pillar if Falco is behind/directly above you, otherwise you're better off rolling away as soon as Falco jumps after the shine.

Huge.
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
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Atlanta, Ga
AH! It had never occured to me to attempt to mess up their L cancel time, since I assumed that either their Jab/Shine could come out faster than anything Link could do to punish it with the slight hitstun from something like Fox's dair. I'll remember trying to spotdodge the next time a Falco is pressuring a light shield with his dair to punish him. <3
 

Spife

Smash Master
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Messages
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Thank you for your answers, especially number 7, I was afraid..for something

what CAN ftilt hit for recoveries?
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Ftilt can hit a LOT of recoveries. It can hit almost everyone except the REALLY huge sweetspot people (mario, doc, etc). I'm pretty sure the best sweetspot it can stop is Marth, though he might be just out of range if he's pixel perfect.

@Reaper, they come from us hun.
 

Spife

Smash Master
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So let me give you an example:
Fox/Falco off stage, you're on the stage and they can't phantasm
You can
A) Try to up-b spike (chances are NO ONE who plays melee still will miss it, or if they do miss it the match isn't very serious or this scenario is the least of your worries...so this is out of the question)
B) Ftilt the sweet spot (assuming the above is true, that is, you'll miss with up b)
C) grab the ledge, wait for the up b, get off the ledge and f-tilt the ledge (just to mess with them, make them think more and see if they'll either not sweet spot due to edge guarding or flub recovering all together)
D) Drop a nair

I'm seeing B being the best with C as a lot of effort but a viable game of the minds. Might you weigh in?
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Nair off the stage is the best edgeguard because it almost always kills. Ftilt is good if you don't have time to get off the stage to nair and is better than trading hits by using the nair (since it keeps you completely safe). nair off stage > ftilt but ftilt > getting hit while nairing/doing something risky.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
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Messages
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Göteborg, Sweden
BTW, i had a question on shieldpressuring falcos aswell. With most characters I can grab them out of it (if their dair-shine-dair-shine timing is predictable you just need to time it really well. if theyre really good theyre unpredictable w/ their timing so its much harder), but with link I cant cuz his grab is so slow. Are there any faster/safer "counterattack" methods?
 

Spife

Smash Master
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BTW, i had a question on shieldpressuring falcos aswell. With most characters I can grab them out of it (if their dair-shine-dair-shine timing is predictable you just need to time it really well. if theyre really good theyre unpredictable w/ their timing so its much harder), but with link I cant cuz his grab is so slow. Are there any faster/safer "counterattack" methods?
I'm not Skler...or am I? But I see this a lot. I'd assume it wouldnt' work this way if the match was very important, but some times a falco will start a pillar and then just assume their shine has hit and then go up. Now if that happens counter attack based on % (kind of obvious).

Otherwise I'd c-stick roll away
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
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Atlanta, Ga
Skler said:
Ftilt can hit a LOT of recoveries. It can hit almost everyone except the REALLY huge sweetspot people (mario, doc, etc). I'm pretty sure the best sweetspot it can stop is Marth, though he might be just out of range if he's pixel perfect.
I think it's only if he grabs with his Double Jump, or else it's hella hard for him to Up+B and get away from it if you do it right.
 

Skler

Smash Master
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On top of Milktea
Link can stop the pillar with a usmash out of shield, the catch is they have to be behind/above you for it to hit.

Super jumping is pretty easy and not useful.
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
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Atlanta, Ga
I almost forgot.

WHAT DO YOU DO AGAINST DOC/MARIO?! It seems like spacing should keep me a little safer, but the mario/Doc almost always seems to get through with a Dair, and then I'm combo'd to hell and back....

Mario especially hurts with, Dair>Utilt>Uair>Uair>Fsmash hurts. Bad. Any advice?
 

Stos

Loves Pink Poodles
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Messages
342
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1&lt;3TO
^ DI dair & Utilt & Uairs.

but yeah i know how you feel i always get stuck on those combo until i learned how to DI Dair properly.

Also you can CC that to Dsmash.
 

Skler

Smash Master
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Messages
4,514
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On top of Milktea
To be honest, Mario and Doc are really bad matchups. They have spam that matches Link's (surprising) and way better moves. If they approach with a dair you need to either roll away or toss out a utilt/uair. As far as their combos go, DI away from them to try and get out of range.

For fighting, just space yourself and make each hit count. CC a lot into dsmashes (they have a really good jab and will use it a lot) and don't get caught in your shield too much. Mario/doc can jab-> grab your shield before you can do anything except roll or risk a spin (spin might not even come out fast enough). They're really hard to combo, but if you get them above you make landing a *****. Don't try to outspam them because it won't work, fireballs/pills come out faster than Link's projectiles and they CAN just camp the entire match and expect to win. If you're going to use projectiles use them in a way that will control the stage, don't try to fight their spam with your own.

Uh...edgeguard good and recover in an unpredictable way.
 

game set

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
194
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Udora, Ontario
i was wondering about the frame data for the bombs two hits, and what causes it to either explode or stay intact. also, if it only hits once, will it do the double hit if it hits again. I was pretty sure if you threw it it exploded and if you dropped it it just burnt them, but it might be the speed.
 
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