"Ask Not for Whom the Bell Tolls..." Game and Watch Matchup + Discussion

[DarkStarStorm]

Bacon for DAAAAAAAAYS!

Lol, yes I would agree, so advantage? Advantage.

 

[Nguz95]

I honestly don't know. I have yet to play a Bowser, so it might be bad, but something tells me it's not.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Bowser is scary as ****, kills us at 40 with fair, out-ranges dtilt, out-ranges SH fair, out-ranges everything. But we got movement and combo's on him like no body's business. And if he jumps, he's gonna eat so much breakfast. It should be like +2 but I think he can bring it down to +1 or 0 on sheer damage.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Bowser is scary as ****, kills us at 40 with fair, out-ranges dtilt, out-ranges SH fair, out-ranges everything. But we got movement and combo's on him like no body's business. And if he jumps, he's gonna eat so much breakfast. It should be like +2 but I think he can bring it down to +1 or 0 on sheer damage.

I saw +KO+ do okay against him, but I would agree on a slight disadvantage for G&W.

 

[Metmetm3t]

No +2 means it's a good matchup, but like I said it could be even considering just how quickly Koopa can stack it up against us. I haven't played a real Bowser since he was nerfed though. I just remember it being one of the fastest matchups because we we're both taking stocks left and right.

 

[Yung Mei]

I play occasionally (like once a month, but a lot during that time) with GimpyFish, ill ask him what he thinks of the matchup. I honestly think it COULD be close to even, because bacon, grabs and gatling giving us fast damage on a huge target like bowser. Tho he is bowser, he can do like 4000 percent in two moves :D

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I play occasionally (like once a month, but a lot during that time) with GimpyFish, ill ask him what he thinks of the matchup. I honestly think it COULD be close to even, because bacon, grabs and gatling giving us fast damage on a huge target like bowser. Tho he is bowser, he can do like 4000 percent in two moves :D

Could you ask him to help me in the Bowser MU thread? I'm working on all of his MUs right now and I could use some pro help. (considering how I main Zelda, Bowser's pretty foreign)

 

[Yung Mei]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZL-tfoX1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-I4rZpQ40

a bunch of friendlies from January Gameclucks that were streamed - everytime i played against gimpy, i chose gnw, so just scroll through til you find my matches

theres also zelda/bowser in there @ DarkStarStorm but the zelda player wasn't that good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASZL-tfoX1o#t=665
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASZL-tfoX1o#t=1362
good example of how, although risky as ****, wavebounce bacon back on stage can pay off

 

[Dakpo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZL-tfoX1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-I4rZpQ40

a bunch of friendlies from January Gameclucks that were streamed - everytime i played against gimpy, i chose gnw, so just scroll through til you find my matches

theres also zelda/bowser in there @ DarkStarStorm but the zelda player wasn't that good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASZL-tfoX1o#t=665
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASZL-tfoX1o#t=1362
good example of how, although risky as ****, wavebounce bacon back on stage can pay off

wow that gatling looks amazing. I need to play around with it a lot more.
Some tips vs bowser, There were moments where you would chose to try and go up and around him when you should be trying to get to the ledge and force your way back on to the stage by using your ledge invincibility. He is kinda like marth in the since he can juggle us really hard.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZL-tfoX1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-I4rZpQ40

a bunch of friendlies from January Gameclucks that were streamed - everytime i played against gimpy, i chose gnw, so just scroll through til you find my matches

theres also zelda/bowser in there @ DarkStarStorm but the zelda player wasn't that good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASZL-tfoX1o#t=665
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASZL-tfoX1o#t=1362
good example of how, although risky as ****, wavebounce bacon back on stage can pay off

That Zelda was horrible! But yet she was able to get two stocks on GimpyFish? If Gimpy is that bad against Zelda I could beat him easily! I actually think that G&W has a slight disadvantage against Bowser, your thoughts?

 

[Maestro_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZL-tfoX1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-I4rZpQ40

wow that gatling looks amazing.

Yeah as soon as I watched those matches I went directly to training mode to learn it and I plan to implement it into my game asap.

 

[Yung Mei]

gatling works on nearly the entire cast, off the top of my head it doesn't work on Squirtle/Puff, and im sure theres others, but i can't remember em at the moment - I think its not guaranteed on zelda i cant remember
IIRC, it doesn't work on D3 unless they DI the dash attack incorrectly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xYsljjh6TQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MVn0LcX7p8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUyZU4eYsmw (watch the first stock of second match especially)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKVciUYQiGo

more matches where i used gatling.
One of my most favorite things about gatling tho, is that sometimes if they try to crouch cancel it, they get sent forward, but knocked into the ground for the easy usmash

Also, i dont know who the hell wrote that GNW Gatling description in the DACUS/Gatling thread, but holy **** whoever wrote it doesn't know **** about GNW

 

[Maestro_]

gatling works on nearly the entire cast, off the top of my head it doesn't work on Squirtle/Puff

I just did it on Puff in training at 25%. Probably could be DI'd up to avoid.

 

[Yung Mei]

don't rely on training mode for testing, just practice. it looks like it works for puff, but most of the time she can just hold up and float away

 

[Nguz95]

Jiggs kind of floats away in general. good thing G&W has huge hitboxes and a good projectile to fill up the airspace.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

gatling works on nearly the entire cast, off the top of my head it doesn't work on Squirtle/Puff, and im sure theres others, but i can't remember em at the moment - I think its not guaranteed on zelda i cant remember
IIRC, it doesn't work on D3 unless they DI the dash attack incorrectly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xYsljjh6TQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MVn0LcX7p8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUyZU4eYsmw (watch the first stock of second match especially)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKVciUYQiGo

more matches where i used gatling.
One of my most favorite things about gatling tho, is that sometimes if they try to crouch cancel it, they get sent forward, but knocked into the ground for the easy usmash

Also, i dont know who the hell wrote that GNW Gatling description in the DACUS/Gatling thread, but holy **** whoever wrote it doesn't know **** about GNW

You need to play against a GOOD Zelda. Those ones were awful compared to what we do (we as in the Zelda thread.

 

[Yung Mei]

oh no, yeah i definitely think GNW loses to Zelda LMAO ratio doesn't even matter point is we lose that match up LMAO

also, remember best method for gatling is Cstick down then Cstick up almost immediately!

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Is it a guaranteed up smash?

 

[Juushichi]

tbh, i think the only reason we might lose to Zelda is because if all else fails for her (and for the most part, it should), Zelda's toe is frame 4.

If she had a slower toe: +1
A the moment, imo: 0

 

[Yung Mei]

as you can tell from the bunch of matches i posted, its basically guaranteed on most of the cast

also, a while ago my friend mained zelda and let me just say, Campy zelda is impossible FOR ME to fight at all

tbh if i found myself in that situation in tourney, i wouldnt even bother, i would just forfeit to not hold up the bracket LMAO


good thing im pickin up MK/Wolf as secondary chars, mk is awesome

 

[Zwarm]

When I was playing against a Wario on Wednesday, I accidentally discovered what G&W's Gatling is on my own. I thought it was like Falco's in Brawl, but I was wrong

I did a down throw, he missed tech, and I instantly picked him up off the ground into the Gatling. I was just trying to read his roll with DACUS haha

 

[Rᴏb]

The only way to beat Zelda is to out camp her, which is totally possible, but I think everyone here knows how fun that is.
"Zelda doesn't need any changes you guys, durrrr."

Once you get past the Din/Nayru spam, killing her is fairly easy. Unfortunately, she can kill G&W fairly easily too... So I'd say the matchup is dead even.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

as you can tell from the bunch of matches i posted, its basically guaranteed on most of the cast

also, a while ago my friend mained zelda and let me just say, Campy zelda is impossible FOR ME to fight at all

tbh if i found myself in that situation in tourney, i wouldnt even bother, i would just forfeit to not hold up the bracket LMAO


good thing im pickin up MK/Wolf as secondary chars, mk is awesome

Umm, GNW isn't THAT bad against Zelda, just destroy her dins with bacon, fairs, and d-tilts and she'll be forced to teledash to you, get in the air and punish her reappearance with a bair. Also I'm pretty sure you can absorb dins with down b. On many stages teledash based Zeldas are at a huge disadvantage. Go to FD, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (brawl), and out camp, then punish the only options she has left.

 

[Daftatt]

I was playing against DK a lot last night at our weekly. I have to say I think G&W has a great matchup. Bacon hits DK really well, and it can combo into almost anything, including those times when you have the gut feeling that a 9 is up next on the hammer. Also, It can stall DK's recovery.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I was playing against DK a lot last night at our weekly. I have to say I think G&W has a great matchup. Bacon hits DK really well, and it can combo into almost anything, including those times when you have the gut feeling that a 9 is up next on the hammer. Also, It can stall DK's recovery.

Don't you love that feeling? How good was the DK? I would tend to agree with you, bacon could stall his recovery as well, and it's shut his approach down to. His bair could stop your up-b though, his combos would work pretty well on you to. But if you can bacon him into a Gatling, it would turn in your favor really quickly.

 

[Daftatt]

Don't you love that feeling? How good was the DK? I would tend to agree with you, bacon could stall his recovery as well, and it's shut his approach down to. His bair could stop your up-b though, his combos would work pretty well on you to. But if you can bacon him into a Gatling, it would turn in your favor really quickly.

There were a couple DKs, a smasher called btb had a really great DK, @Drodeka had a great one too. Shadic's DK was meh, but then he switched to bowser to just walk through the bacon and I was boned. I'm not saying anyone was a Strong Bad though, I didn't get edgeguarded much so my G&W was pretty safe.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

There were a couple DKs, a smasher called btb had a really great DK, @Drodeka had a great one too. Shadic's DK was meh, but then he switched to bowser to just walk through the bacon and I was boned. I'm not saying anyone was a Strong Bad though, I didn't get edgeguarded much so my G&W was pretty safe.

Is G&W's down b a momentum cancel like in Melee? And my nifty MU chart shows Bowser at a slight disadvantage against Mr. Game, sorry, you have no Johns. JK

 

[Daftatt]

Is G&W's down b a momentum cancel like in Melee? And my nifty MU chart shows Bowser at a slight disadvantage against Mr. Game, sorry, you have no Johns. JK

lol, Shadic's bowser is straight out of the Gimpyfish school, and he's just better than me so I at least have that john (my ZSS can do well though). Also, I distinctly remember shadic (a P:M dev) saying that bucket doesn't cancel momentum, but maybe he meant that it's just not as much as in melee, which is definitely true.

 

[Yung Mei]

There were a couple DKs, a smasher called btb had a really great DK, @Drodeka had a great one too. Shadic's DK was meh, but then he switched to bowser to just walk through the bacon and I was boned. I'm not saying anyone was a Strong Bad though, I didn't get edgeguarded much so my G&W was pretty safe.

@ Shadic CONFIRMED FOR NOT GUD, WHAT A WEINER

Also, youre in olympia? You guys should come up to Tacoma for Super Smash Games, we have fairly sized fests every tuesday. We're hoping to start streaming them soon, we streamed last tuesday. Also, im pretty sure Down B still momentum cancels

 

[Rᴏb]

What is your guys' opinion on the usefulness of bucket braking? It's one of those things I've never really given any time to learning because I figured good DI was good enough. Same goes for DACUS vs Gatling combo.
The only situation where I know bucket braking is useful is when you tech the ground right before flying offstage followed by bucket braking.

 

[Metmetm3t]

That basically is the only time bucket braking is useful. Though if you pre-DI you can survive some ridiculous ****. One thing you should try though is bucket stalling when you are high and bucket turn around to get bairs out.

 

[Yung Mei]

Gatling > DACUS

also, bucket is good especially fall/stalling when you get sent high up, or turning around in the air without committing to moving yourself too much / leaving yourself too open from turning bacons and ****

 

[Shadic]

@ Shadic CONFIRMED FOR NOT GUD, WHAT A WEINER

Yeah, I only play like half the cast, DK not included. Sorry.

 

[Dakpo]

Dk confirmed for good match up. I've played ELi and Strong bad. I feel like we make them have to try extremely hard to do well. Bacon is just a monster for them and we combo super hard

 

[Yung Mei]

Yeah, I only play like half the cast, DK not included. Sorry.

no johns i play half the cast too

u weenie

 

[Nguz95]

I sense a weenie fight on the horizon.

 

[jtm94]

Bucket stalling which I refer to as bucket braking is incredibly crucial.

And I've always been able to do the DACUS, but I just recently took the time to learn it and the gattling very well. It is quite useful, but I rarely ever net KOs off the gattling because at higher %s it stops working, but the damage is nice and it just looks sweet.

As long as G&W has his double jump he can recover from ANYWHERE.

My MU experience with G&W is that I hate Link(as I do with all my characters) I can't get close to do anything, and I end up feeling just outranked by a character that is better than my own, you have to play super patient to get anywhere in the MU. All the other sword characters suck to play against, Roy is incredibly gimpable with fairs at the edge, he usually won't recover. Marth and Ike..... I don't want to talk about. I quite enjoy playing against Captain Falcon and Ganon, they're both pretty easy to gimp and land hammers on. Spacies suck because they're spacies, but we have chaingrabs and guaranteed follow-ups after throws. Mario is pretty close to even, but he has so many ways to set up KOs he might win even if we eat fireballs.

 

[Rᴏb]

G&W v Sheik?

She definitely doesn't decimate him anymore, but how much closer has it gotten?

 

[Crezyte]

I would say that sheik is one of the weakest characters in the game atm... behind game and watch. We have consistent stuff on sheik and sheik doesn't have consistent stuff on us. 'Nuff said.

 

[Maestro_]

I would say that sheik is one of the weakest characters in the game atm...