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Ask an atheist

gm jack

gm jack

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No idea about MSNBC, but Fox are incredibly biased. In fact, almost all American new shows are. Even the most liberal major news channels that you have still seem pretty conservative.
 
john!

john!

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I don't watch the news very much, but from the articles I read online and what I hear from others, both Fox News and MSNBC are biased, especially their prime-time commentators. O'Reilly, Olbermann, Beck, Maddow, etc. are entertainers, not newscasters. And Colbert is a comedian, yet people tend to take the opinions of comedians seriously.

But that's not really what this topic is about...
 
R

rvkevin

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john! said:
I don't watch the news very much, but from the articles I read online and what I hear from others, both Fox News and MSNBC are biased, especially their prime-time commentators. O'Reilly, Olbermann, Beck, Maddow, etc. are entertainers, not newscasters. And Colbert is a comedian, yet people tend to take the opinions of comedians seriously.
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Really? I find the online articles to be a lot more neutral than anything they talk about on the air. O'Reilly, Olbermann, Beck, etc. may be entertainers, but I'm not sure the laymen considers them that, and instead take them seriously; I'm not sure how someone would come to the conclusion that they were entertainers (They're on a news channel, wearing suits, solely talking about political issues) without dissecting what they're saying, which is more credit than I give to most Americans. By the way, Colbert is really biased against bears, but I really doubt if anyone really takes his comments seriously.
 
Fatmanonice

Fatmanonice

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It took me a long time to realize it but all broadcasted news on TV and the radio is biased. What is said is largely controlled by the major corporate figures behind them and usually are constructed to reflect their opinions and views and benefit them as a corporation. That is why Fox is biased towards the right and why CNN and MSNC are biased towards the left. Calling any of it "real news" is practically an insult. An amazing movie to watch on this topic if you have about two hours is to kill is the Oscar winning "Network."
 
Melomaniacal

Melomaniacal

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To even suggest that Fox news is "fair and balanced" is borderline ******** if you ask me. Same goes for MSNBC.

I've never seen a conservative admit that Fox news is blatantly biased.
But I see plenty of liberals admit that MSNBC is biased.

I don't get it. **** politics.
 
Fatmanonice

Fatmanonice

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Melomaniacal said:
To even suggest that Fox news is "fair and balanced" is borderline ******** if you ask me. Same goes for MSNBC.

I've never seen a conservative admit that Fox news is blatantly biased.
But I see plenty of liberals admit that MSNBC is biased.

I don't get it. **** politics.
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Don't try to think about; a lot about politics doesn't make sense and sometimes I wonder if the only point of it is to genuinely piss people off, kind of like parking tickets.
 
Melomaniacal

Melomaniacal

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Fatmanonice said:
Don't try to think about; a lot about politics doesn't make sense and sometimes I wonder if the only point of it is to genuinely piss people off, kind of like parking tickets.
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It's hard when your father is an absolute politics-junkie. That's a massive understatement.

For a long time, and I guess still a little bit today, I tried to care because I know if no one cares, bad things happen. But more and more I find that it just angers me more and more.

And more and more I'm finding that the things that infuriate me are coming from the far right. I used to think that this was because I was raised by a liberal-politics-junkie, but I've always kept an open mind and tried to separate from my fathers views. I approached politics objectively, gave Fox news a shot, read both sides of each story. Not to say that the left doesn't give its fair share of bull****.

I'll just chalk that up to being brainwashed by a liberal. Most people won't consider any other reason.
 
M

masterdrenin

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I like you fatmanonice. I also like Bill Cosby :)
Agnosticism can switch between atheistic and theistic depending on the topic I think.
But I believe I lean SLIGHTLY more towards agnostic theistic.
 
gm jack

gm jack

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Fatmanonice said:
It took me a long time to realize it but all broadcasted news on TV and the radio is biased. What is said is largely controlled by the major corporate figures behind them and usually are constructed to reflect their opinions and views and benefit them as a corporation. That is why Fox is biased towards the right and why CNN and MSNC are biased towards the left. Calling any of it "real news" is practically an insult. An amazing movie to watch on this topic if you have about two hours is to kill is the Oscar winning "Network."
Click to expand...
The thing is, even channels like CNN are right wing, just considerably less so than Fox etc. The closest to neutral I know is the BBC (legally required to be neutral politically) but it still isn't completely unbiased.
 
Reaver197

Reaver197

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It's a shame to call that "tame" since it is bordering on death penalty. My point was more about how allowing immoral religious concepts to proliferate, we are doing more than just exposing the people immediately in our vicinity to their repercussions. Just because we know that the lunatic fringe will (hopefully) not be calling shots any time soon here, doesn't mean they won't leverage influence else where.


But, yes, Islam is inherently a dangerous and militant religion, not the least because of that specific inability to even entertain the idea that it could be wrong or inaccurate.
 
gm jack

gm jack

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Same with every other religion, bar Catholicism, which allows the Pope to add stuff.

Most Muslisms really aren't aggressive people, but due to the devoutness required by the faith (praying 5 times a day every day at specific times is a lone quite a commitment) means people tend to to take it seriously. Because there are parts of the Koran allowing for Jihad (as in proper defense of the faith, none of the stuff that goes on now) people can get manipulated into doing stuff everyone else in the group looks down on.

If you think Christianity is immune to this, look up the troubles in Ireland. Bombing the crap out of each other because some were protestants and others Catholics (or at least, those were the banners they hid behind).
 
R

rvkevin

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gm jack said:
Same with every other religion, bar Catholicism, which allows the Pope to add stuff.
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How do you find Jainism and Buddhism to be inherently violent or militant? Simply because a system of beliefs is unable to change does not mean it is inherently dangerous.

And I don't think Catholicism should be taken off the list just because of the Pope. As said in Bill Maher's Religulous, "Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, 'I'm willing Lord, I'll do whatever you want me to do.' Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas." Simply because it can change, does not prevent it from causing harm. And the inquisitions has shown that Catholicism has been a source of harm, so having a Pope does not preclude it from being militant. Just curious, does the Pope "entertain the idea that it could be wrong or inaccurate?"
 
R

rvkevin

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Nyx Avatar said:
what are your thoughts on the illuminati, HARRP (sp) and this 2012 crap that is going on?
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I don't really know much about the Illuminati, but I suspect its just as backed up evidence as the movie series The National Treasure is.

HARRP: Right now, it is just described as a research project. That in of itself does not mean that it will be applicable, or that anything will come out of it. What about it? Even if they are able to produce earthquakes or volcanoes, it does not mean that it is a valid alternative to modern weapons, since volcanoes affect the global climate and are just as likely to affect us. Precision missiles would be my way to go (they also have less collateral damage).

2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi2nFVGxzcM

CHEAP PEACH said:
Wow, I've just lost all faith in mankind. How can humans truly believe something like that? Tell me that is a satire site. TELL ME THAT EVEN IF YOU ARE LYING
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Its the same reasoning that claims Harry Potter is evil. That reading that book is practically the same thing as practicing witch-craft. And don't forget what the Bible says about witch-craft. Exodus 22:17 "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live." Should we resurrect the Salem trials for Harry Potter? Its amazing what conclusions people can reach from the Bible. I wish people could think for themselves...
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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Falconv1.0 said:
My church said pokemon was evil.

I'm not making this **** up.
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You mean they're not?

Well, I happen to know some digimon are demonic. Ever heard of devimon? And that machinedramon, always gigacanon-ing everyone wasn't the epitomy of holy living.

I lul'd.
 
Mewter

Mewter

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CHEAP PEACH said:
Wow, I've just lost all faith in mankind. How can humans truly believe something like that? Tell me that is a satire site. TELL ME THAT EVEN IF YOU ARE LYING
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I honestly believe that those links are satire and half the people posting in the topic are just being sarcastic.
/triestolightenmood
 
J

jivegamer

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So you guys know, Landover Baptist is a satire website. I personally find it quite hilarious ;)

...so we're doing the whole "Islam is the the religion of violence" thing again? I really had hoped that we would have enough nuance to avoid such a thing, but I'll admit, media caricatures, the sheer scale of destruction caused by a few delusional idiots, and the perception that Saudi Arabia and Iran's laws are the norm all make it so that it's difficult at an immediate level not to think that all of Islam is violent.

The problem is, it's not true and it ****s a group of over a billion people to violence and illogical tendencies. I think over a billion people deserve a little bit better than that, don't you? Of course you do (deep on the inside, anyways), and that's why I'm here ;).

More than anything, the rise of recent, violent tendencies within Islam have always corresponded with and have always been the result of the politicization of Islam. By this I mean that radicalized Islam (in it's modern day character) is inseparable from it's expression as a political ideology. Islamism, or Islam as a theocratic governing principal, is the primary cause of violent rebel groups, governing laws that are antiquated (A.K.A backwards and repressive), the condemnation/oppression of religious minorities within Muslim majority countries, and many of the other problems we face today.

It's rise may be tied to a general opinion that "Western Liberalism", various Nationalist ideologies, and radical leftist alternatives have all failed to fix the nagging problems from Colonialism that have left many majority Muslim countries (and, let's face it, virtually all of the third world) in disarray. Furthermore, Islam as an ideology it was seen as something genuine from the region. The problem is, looking into books proscribing how to live in the 600's C.E. is hardly a good way to find out answers to all of modern societies' problems, no matter where you are. In fact, it creates whole new problems, catastrophic problems, problems like those we are currently witnessing.

The big point is that, though there are always problems from literal interpretations of a religion, the problems we are seeing have not necessarily been problems since Islam started. Many are even thoroughly modern, or reactions to the discomfort that some feel with "modernity" as we seek to define it. There are violent strains in all religions if you look hard enough, the real reason Islam is appearing so often is for two simple reasons; the size of the population and the massive politicization of their religion in a way that is not always conducive to good relations with others.

TL;DR: All religions have their problems, but Islam's predicament is more political than religious in nature.
 
R

rvkevin

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jivegamer said:
TL;DR: All religions have their problems, but Islam's predicament is more political than religious in nature.
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I think that saying that Islam's predicament is more political than religious is a little misleading. It would be like a school adopting the Bible as a historical account of creation, and when the students fail, they say the problem is more political than religious in nature. Well, of course when you base your political system off of a religion its going to be more political in nature, but to suggest that the root cause is not religion is absurd. And to say that all religions have their problems is to disregard the severity of the problem (http://www.atheistcartoons.com/?attachment_id=965). I highly doubt that a group of such size following Jainism, humanism, or Ubuntu would have such problems. And if a holy text is able to support such atrocities, I don't think those texts deserve such admiration and should be treated for what they are: bronzed-aged beliefs that have no place in the modern world (http://www.atheistcartoons.com/?p=746). Not about religion, that's a good one (http://www.atheistcartoons.com/?p=373).
 
Falconv1.0

Falconv1.0

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I'm pretty sure that guy has been on the daily show has been on the Daily Show many times.

I'm gonna punch a 2012 believer in the jaw the day after the world doesn't explode.

Edit-Supposedly that site is a parody site. You can still keep that loss of faith due to the fact that you could believe people can be that stupid though. =D
 
S

SwastikaPyle

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jivegamer said:
...so we're doing the whole "Islam is the the religion of violence" thing again? I really had hoped that we would have enough nuance to avoid such a thing, but I'll admit, media caricatures, the sheer scale of destruction caused by a few delusional idiots, and the perception that Saudi Arabia and Iran's laws are the norm all make it so that it's difficult at an immediate level not to think that all of Islam is violent.
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I don't think anyone here is saying that all of Islam is violent, but that if religious violence does happen somewhere, it is likely to have an Islamic source. Fundamentalist everything is something I'm opposed to, but fundamentalist Islamic governments clearly have more problematic human right's abuses than the relatively benign Christian institutions.

For instance, if you can show me the Christian equivalent to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy

Or the Christian society that tells it's women they don't have the right to vote, drive a car, testify in court, seek employment, or leave the house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

I am not saying that all Muslims in the world are the same. I understand there is a large difference between the fundamentalists and the moderates. The fundamentalists are the ones I'm directing my rage at. Do the Christians have their own crazies? Absolutely. But they aren't the law of the land, like Islamic fundamentalists are.

jivegamer said:
The big point is that, though there are always problems from literal interpretations of a religion, the problems we are seeing have not necessarily been problems since Islam started. Many are even thoroughly modern, or reactions to the discomfort that some feel with "modernity" as we seek to define it. There are violent strains in all religions if you look hard enough, the real reason Islam is appearing so often is for two simple reasons; the size of the population and the massive politicization of their religion in a way that is not always conducive to good relations with others.

TL;DR: All religions have their problems, but Islam's predicament is more political than religious in nature.
Click to expand...
I don't see why it's more 'political' than others. What is it about that cartoon outrage that was political? What secret, beneficial, political maneuver were they pulling when they set a million dollar bounty reward for the first person who beheads the cartoonists?

Either way, even if it is political, it shows that the religion is obviously a ridiculously strong force for evil (if we're giving credit for the good things it does, it goes both ways, right?) They don't get to use the 'massive population' excuse, the Christians have just as many converts and they still get through the day just fine without anywhere near the extensive amount of human rights abuses of their Eastern counterpart.


edit: Oh yeah, Nyx, I didn't really know what the HARRP thing was, I researched it a little while and concluded it sounds mind bogglingly ********. Weather control? Lol. The idea of the Illuminati is just as comical.
 
J

jivegamer

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Sorry Swastika, I wasn't really intending the rant to be directed at you :/

I also agree with your point that any religion in-and-of itself can be a profoundly negative force. I just think there's a lot of people who, for instance, ignore violent Buddhists in Sri-Lanka or Hindu riots in India and just give Islam the "one and only violent religion" reward.

but here is something interesting you just said:

"Do the Christians have their own crazies? Absolutely. But they aren't the law of the land, like Islamic fundamentalists are."

The law of the land; by jove that sounds...POLITICAL! The political element is what makes it really bad instead of the manageable type of bad IMO. I wish there was an actual Muslim on here to make this argument instead of a confused, weak-atheistic Agnostic, but I appreciate that you've been willing to put up with me ;)

EDIT: *slaps self in the face* I forgot to answer rvkevin as well -_-

It's not not religion, it's the uniquely pernicious mix of religion with mass politicization. I am not trying to be misleading with my argument, I'm just trying to encourage considering the problem with a full view of things.

I apologize if I was...reductionist. My computer battery was running out and I had nowhere to plug it in at the library, so I was trying to type it really fast. I'm greatly appreciative that you've been so patiently responding to my posts :)
 
Reaver197

Reaver197

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Jive, the thing you have to understand about these religions is that, to their adherents (particularly the fundamentalist ones), there is no difference between the law and the religion. The law is the religion. When a religion states that people absolutely have to live by certain tenants, and punish them in specific ways for not doing so, you're always going to have the issue of politicization of religion. The judeo-christian religions are by their very nature political. The only way for them not to be is to purposefully disregard certain aspects of their dogma.
 
R

rvkevin

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jivegamer said:
The law of the land; by jove that sounds...POLITICAL! The political element is what makes it really bad instead of the manageable type of bad IMO. I wish there was an actual Muslim on here to make this argument instead of a confused, weak-atheistic Agnostic, but I appreciate that you've been willing to put up with me ;)
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So...are you trying to say that the media intentionally paints Islam in a negative light, which makes it look worse than it really is? While that may be true to some degree (My moneys on Fox), but for those that only tune in for the facts, it tells no different story. I think the major point is, that the Koran like the Bible, can be inspiration for violent acts and therefore is inherently dangerous in the hands of credulous people. And if you have ever read parts of the Koran, it is not a stretch at all to say that anyone who believes and follows its text will be violent. I'm not sure what part we are confused about...have you even read a part of the Koran (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm)? To suggest that following its text would not result in violence is absurd. And I don't think anyone said that Islam was the only violent religion (I'm curious, where in Buddhist texts does it support violence?), but I think if you look at the lot, Islam would be the worst.

From the site: "This is what makes the verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in the Qur'an, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, others do little to contradict them. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

In fact, many Muslims are simply unaware of the Qur'an's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. This is because their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for Muslims to come to believe that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the evidence of the Qur'an and the bloody history of Islam are very much in contradiction to this."
 
S

SwastikaPyle

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4:57

I can see the look in his eyes. His crazy little smile.

"If this were my country, I'd cut your head off right now, blanco nino."

edit: wow, it's like he took this whole thread and put it into one video.
 
X1-12

X1-12

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Hype said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqw4krMOug

discuss.
Click to expand...


didn't have time to listen to it all right now but

"the willingness of children to accept santa claus signifies the inability to distinguish between a comfortable fantasy and reality"

this whole point is a total fallacy..

Mom/Dad"hey kid Some fat guy in a suit gives you stuff every year okay?"
kid: "Yeah I believe that"


not even mentioning that he uses a child s ability to accept the existence of a purely kind and giving being as an argument for children accepting the existence of the devil.. And the fact that santa claus is in reality, just a fat man in a suit, which is hardly far away from the everyday sightsof many children..



EDIT: first post in this thread so i might aswell mention I am a total atheist, as in I don't believe god does, or could exist
 
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