N64
Smash Champion
Yeah, ftilt spacing against the marios is a bit odd. You don't want to get clipped by being too close, but if you're too far back and he spaces his upB out he can be outside of your ftilt range and 'gloves' the ledge.
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Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
SmashMac
Smash Lord
I was fighting against PikaChad online and his edgeguard game was really good. He covered most of my options. If I would try and waveland on the stage from the edge he'd either ftilt me or space an fsmash. If I jumped from the edge he'd utilt me and send me off stage. The safest option seemed to mix up rolling from the edge for me.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
I need to be more in his face off stage and force options.
Palmerfan
Smash Apprentice
What's the best way to deal with Falco's dair pressure? Also, are there any good videos of this matchup on how to play it?
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qMlh81dpLA even though I think Axe loses that set lol
N64
Smash Champion
pivot dsmash! :D
also running away from falco is usually the best strategy.
also running away from falco is usually the best strategy.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Falco Pika is a terrible MU for Pika. Therefore it should only become your best. Your best MU should never be your easiest MU.
Palmerfan
Smash Apprentice
So many good falcos in tristate, I have to learn the matchup well to stand any chance at all haha.
I've seen a lot of Uair spam in the matchup vs fox, specifically in Axe's game vs mango at evo 2013. Does the falco matchup play similarly at all to fox? There's a lot more fox pika footage out there than falco pika, unfortunately.
I've seen a lot of Uair spam in the matchup vs fox, specifically in Axe's game vs mango at evo 2013. Does the falco matchup play similarly at all to fox? There's a lot more fox pika footage out there than falco pika, unfortunately.
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N64
Smash Champion
Yeah, uair is still really good. It can lead to putting falco offstage, which is when he dies. You have to be a little more careful when below falco, because of the strength of his dair, so recognizing when it's safe/smart to uair is a little more important.
So idk if this has ever been stated as a legitimate tactic but I was playing friendlies at a tournament I guess when you thunder jolt and its around the ledge when a spacie tries to side-B to the ledge, the spacie gets hit and sets up a perfect opportunity for a ledge guard.
The only reason why I learned about this is because I would knock my friend's falco across the entire stage and since I couldn't reach him I figured I would throw out a thunder jolt. He kept getting hit by it since he's vulnerable and I would follow up with a f-smash or a uair ledge guard.
Opinions? Good tactic or bad tactic?
The only reason why I learned about this is because I would knock my friend's falco across the entire stage and since I couldn't reach him I figured I would throw out a thunder jolt. He kept getting hit by it since he's vulnerable and I would follow up with a f-smash or a uair ledge guard.
Opinions? Good tactic or bad tactic?
dkuo
Smash Lord
imo projectiles are always good if you cant reach someone in time
in most situations opponents will feel the need to play around the jolt to avoid it, so its ok vs recovery - if it hits you get a perfect setup, if not you force the opponent to recover around it which limits options
that said jolting opponents offstage is good too if you do it early enough. onstage jolt is mildly laggier than aerial jolt offstage and in many situations you might want to just position yourself by the ledge instead
ive recently decided to sticking with cp'ing pika vs ff'ers on fd. tried it vs s2j yesterday and it went down to last stock, but my pika is still super rough around the edges. i just need to not blow at cg'ing again
in most situations opponents will feel the need to play around the jolt to avoid it, so its ok vs recovery - if it hits you get a perfect setup, if not you force the opponent to recover around it which limits options
that said jolting opponents offstage is good too if you do it early enough. onstage jolt is mildly laggier than aerial jolt offstage and in many situations you might want to just position yourself by the ledge instead
ive recently decided to sticking with cp'ing pika vs ff'ers on fd. tried it vs s2j yesterday and it went down to last stock, but my pika is still super rough around the edges. i just need to not blow at cg'ing again
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N64
Smash Champion
onstage jolt is ok for that situation, yeah, but it is rather laggy and inconsistent. If it's literally my only option I will do it, but often times I'll just run towards the ledge normally and try to just be in a better position for when they come up from the ledge instead. Either are viable imo, jolt is riskier but has a larger payoff.
On another note, I hate you axe! Baka4moe has beat me in 2 tourneys back to back over here, and i blame you! JK i need to just get better, but competent peach seems so difficult, my most recent bad matchup. I have trouble getting in on her, recovering safely against her (i generally end up having to just recover high to the stage and eat a nair minimally, she covers the ledge well), and DIing out of her combos. It feels like she just chases me across the stage once she gets any hit and chokes me out of space. She'll often get that hit, too, because nair and bair contest everything so well.
I tried mario against her, which I've been working on in generally lately, and actually seemed to do better. My mario is garbage, but even then i felt like i had so many more options. I could stick out back airs, contest space safely with downsmash, control space better with fireballs, cape turnips, stick out bairs and dairs to prevent her from getting in, threaten fsmash and usmash kills. Like, everything. I may end up using him specifically against peach if I can't figure out this matchup with pikachu.
On another note, I hate you axe! Baka4moe has beat me in 2 tourneys back to back over here, and i blame you! JK i need to just get better, but competent peach seems so difficult, my most recent bad matchup. I have trouble getting in on her, recovering safely against her (i generally end up having to just recover high to the stage and eat a nair minimally, she covers the ledge well), and DIing out of her combos. It feels like she just chases me across the stage once she gets any hit and chokes me out of space. She'll often get that hit, too, because nair and bair contest everything so well.
I tried mario against her, which I've been working on in generally lately, and actually seemed to do better. My mario is garbage, but even then i felt like i had so many more options. I could stick out back airs, contest space safely with downsmash, control space better with fireballs, cape turnips, stick out bairs and dairs to prevent her from getting in, threaten fsmash and usmash kills. Like, everything. I may end up using him specifically against peach if I can't figure out this matchup with pikachu.
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Franny
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 2
Hey, noobie here. You guys be my inspiration for pikachu main. Though i be very nooby and I have a couple of questions:
1) So when should you edge guard with FTilt and when with just FSmash? does ftilt have a bigger range and hit lower?
2) So i see some pikachus zip across the stage with quick attack but i cant. When i quick attack down into the stage, i usually have crazy lag. How do you avoid this?
and thanks for showing me the way of the pikachu
1) So when should you edge guard with FTilt and when with just FSmash? does ftilt have a bigger range and hit lower?
2) So i see some pikachus zip across the stage with quick attack but i cant. When i quick attack down into the stage, i usually have crazy lag. How do you avoid this?
and thanks for showing me the way of the pikachu
N64
Smash Champion
Hey Franny! Welcome to the pika community.
1) It's often a judgement call. Down-angled ftilt will hit lower than fsmash, and is easier to time (its hitbox stays out longer, so you don't have to be as precise). It doesn't do nearly as much knockback though. Sometimes that doesn't really matter. For instance, if you successfully ftilt falco (and he's unable to tech it) you can pretty much always follow him offstage with an aerial to kill. Ftilt is more reliable, but fsmash is more likely to outright kill, especially against floatier characters.
2) I'm not entirely sure what you've seen. If you end your quick attack above the stage, you'll land and have lag. If you quick attack into the stage, you'll have slightly more lag. The only ways to not have lag after quick attack are to quick attack into a ledge (and grab it), or quick attack so you land on the very edge of a platform/stage (where you'll barely slide off and 'ledge cancel' your lag). The second is pretty difficult to do and generally is only done from a few specific spacing setups.
lemme know if that all makes sense.
1) It's often a judgement call. Down-angled ftilt will hit lower than fsmash, and is easier to time (its hitbox stays out longer, so you don't have to be as precise). It doesn't do nearly as much knockback though. Sometimes that doesn't really matter. For instance, if you successfully ftilt falco (and he's unable to tech it) you can pretty much always follow him offstage with an aerial to kill. Ftilt is more reliable, but fsmash is more likely to outright kill, especially against floatier characters.
2) I'm not entirely sure what you've seen. If you end your quick attack above the stage, you'll land and have lag. If you quick attack into the stage, you'll have slightly more lag. The only ways to not have lag after quick attack are to quick attack into a ledge (and grab it), or quick attack so you land on the very edge of a platform/stage (where you'll barely slide off and 'ledge cancel' your lag). The second is pretty difficult to do and generally is only done from a few specific spacing setups.
lemme know if that all makes sense.
Franny
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 2
1) Ahhhh cool. Makes sense!
2) And i was talking about something like this http://youtu.be/SGTWI2f6AIE?t=6m58s i doubt i'll be able to pull it off but I'm crazy curious about how it worked. I'm guessing it only works for Yoshi's Story? Oh and so if i quick attack, there's no way to get out of lag besides using a ledge/ledge cancel?
Oh and thanks for answering back so quickly. You're awesome!
2) And i was talking about something like this http://youtu.be/SGTWI2f6AIE?t=6m58s i doubt i'll be able to pull it off but I'm crazy curious about how it worked. I'm guessing it only works for Yoshi's Story? Oh and so if i quick attack, there's no way to get out of lag besides using a ledge/ledge cancel?
Oh and thanks for answering back so quickly. You're awesome!
mynameisdog4
Smash Apprentice
Since we're talking about ftilts, under which situations should I be Ftilting vs Dtilting? I understand Ftilts for edgeguards, but on stage I almost always seem to find dtilt the most useful option over ftilt, but watching videos I see people throw out ftilt more often. I'm just wondering if my dtilting has some sort of disadvantage.
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
That was from being hit by the reflected Jolt.
So that quick attack across the stage is a glitch only for pikachu. Whenever Pikachu quick attacks into anything with equal priority to the quick attack (so like young link's boomerang or pika's thunder jolt) then pika gets an extra boost across the stage. It works on any stage but is EXTREMELY hard to pull off LOL.
dkuo
Smash Lord
dtilt has nice range and low lag (iasa on frame 19) but lasts for only 3 frames
ftilt lasts longer (10 frames) and covers a variety of angles, but you tend to be stuck in place longer (29 frames)
the way dtilt is usually used is to invade the opponent's space, while ftilt moreso acts as a keepaway attack. i like using the term 'surprise obstacle' for ftilt (and dsmash
) because a lot of times people just run into it, especially when you angle it up or down vs certain approaches/recoveries. dtilt doesnt last long so its less likely people will run into it, but its long range can extend into the opponent's area a little further and is also much less of a commitment lag-wise (which is what you want for your approaches)you can definitely still use dtilt to zone people out or use ftilt to invade space though. but they definitely lend themselves more to their specific tasks. a lot of times theyre interchangably used and its up to you to determine what would work better
as for their trajectories and followups, theyre kind of similar. at low/mid percent they dont guarantee anything in terms of combos or followups outside of edgeguarding but act as a great disruption tool and can offer openings. as for the nitty gritty that probably wont be that helpful:
- dtilt sends at a slightly lower angle than ftilt
- compared to normal ftilt, up-angled ftilt knocks a little farther away, down-angled ftilt knocks less farther away
- ftilt will send opponents into knockdown a hair earlier than dtilt...like 1% difference lol so this is like not a big deal
- upangled ftilt will knockdown earlier than neutral ftilt! this is actually kind of useful
remember that both ftilt and dtilt get cc'd pretty easily
good question
edit - oh yea something kind of important, if you want to do instant tilt out of run you need to crouch out of run first. also you cant instant tilt out of initial dash unless you do a pivot tilt (which is, well, unreasonably technical)
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JazzDynamite!
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2013
- Messages
- 11
Hey guys, so I am thinking about picking up this character and I have a few questions regarding his match ups.
Exactly what are Pikachu's best and worst match ups? More specifically, how does Pikachu fare vs. Fox and Falco? Does he actually soft-counter the former or is it just even? Furthermore, what is the consensus on the match ups Axe has been using Young Link for? Does Pikachu actually lose to Peach, Jiggs, and Climbers?
Exactly what are Pikachu's best and worst match ups? More specifically, how does Pikachu fare vs. Fox and Falco? Does he actually soft-counter the former or is it just even? Furthermore, what is the consensus on the match ups Axe has been using Young Link for? Does Pikachu actually lose to Peach, Jiggs, and Climbers?
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
i'm a marth/peach main and pikachu is just my 3rd, but I honestly find that pikachu vs fox is roughly as easy as marth vs fox, despite having much more exp playing marth vs fox.
Also, your opponents will have less exp vs pikachu, so that will help as well. However, how the matchups look at the highest level doesn't necessarily translate to lower levels.
I can consistently take half of a stock or more if i ever catch a fox jumping between platforms; but if you can't do that then you probably aren't going to be gimping fox very well. Also at higher levels the fox combo strings are better and some of them can even edgeguard pikachu properly.
But I don't think it's coincidence either that axe has such a ridiculously good win rate vs fox players. Obviously I give axe full credit for expanding pikachu's game to the point that he is a threat to fox players, but I don't look at it as just "axe being great." I look at it as "Axe figuring out how to beat foxes with pikachu, so the rest of us can also emulate him and have an easier time vs fox than pikachu players had in the past."
However, falco gives pikachu more trouble in part because the laser game makes it more difficult for pikachu to come in on the angles that favor him, and because falco can combo for larger strings a lot easier than fox (assuming you can smash DI upairs on command like you should).
anyway I don't have exp with the rest of the matchups, but I wanted to give my vote that pikachu is good vs fox!
Also, your opponents will have less exp vs pikachu, so that will help as well. However, how the matchups look at the highest level doesn't necessarily translate to lower levels.
I can consistently take half of a stock or more if i ever catch a fox jumping between platforms; but if you can't do that then you probably aren't going to be gimping fox very well. Also at higher levels the fox combo strings are better and some of them can even edgeguard pikachu properly.
But I don't think it's coincidence either that axe has such a ridiculously good win rate vs fox players. Obviously I give axe full credit for expanding pikachu's game to the point that he is a threat to fox players, but I don't look at it as just "axe being great." I look at it as "Axe figuring out how to beat foxes with pikachu, so the rest of us can also emulate him and have an easier time vs fox than pikachu players had in the past."
However, falco gives pikachu more trouble in part because the laser game makes it more difficult for pikachu to come in on the angles that favor him, and because falco can combo for larger strings a lot easier than fox (assuming you can smash DI upairs on command like you should).
anyway I don't have exp with the rest of the matchups, but I wanted to give my vote that pikachu is good vs fox!
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dkuo
Smash Lord
pika technically has a bad matchup vs all the relevant characters lol (well falcon MIGHT be even but idk)
your main advantage vs a lot of them are matchup experience
for the *relevant* matchups, pikas best are (imo)
- against someone with no matchup experience, spacies and falcon
- against someone with matchup experience, marth and falcon
worst are (imo) ics, at least for my fraudulent pika
theres also consensus on peach, sheik, falco, fox, jiggs, and doc being really hard
vs spacies pika is okay. he has a really hard time landing his first hits but his punishment/edgeguard is stellar
i would not count him as a soft counter unless youre talking about an fd counterpick, where cg > usmash ko gives you the advantage
personally i do much better vs falcos than foxes as pika
i think going YL vs peach/jiggs/ics makes sense
for peach/jiggs pika has a really hard time getting in hits without suffering from outprioritization or trading. since peach/jiggs are relatively slow, YL works well since hes very mobile and has a lot of projectiles to harass with...but the way axe plays YL is kind of different from traditional YL <_<
and apparently YL vs ics isnt too bad but i dont play YL so what do I know
your main advantage vs a lot of them are matchup experience
for the *relevant* matchups, pikas best are (imo)
- against someone with no matchup experience, spacies and falcon
- against someone with matchup experience, marth and falcon
worst are (imo) ics, at least for my fraudulent pika
theres also consensus on peach, sheik, falco, fox, jiggs, and doc being really hard
vs spacies pika is okay. he has a really hard time landing his first hits but his punishment/edgeguard is stellar
i would not count him as a soft counter unless youre talking about an fd counterpick, where cg > usmash ko gives you the advantage
personally i do much better vs falcos than foxes as pika
i think going YL vs peach/jiggs/ics makes sense
for peach/jiggs pika has a really hard time getting in hits without suffering from outprioritization or trading. since peach/jiggs are relatively slow, YL works well since hes very mobile and has a lot of projectiles to harass with...but the way axe plays YL is kind of different from traditional YL <_<
and apparently YL vs ics isnt too bad but i dont play YL so what do I know
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N64
Smash Champion
You guys both covered the majority of what i was going to say. Pika does ok against spacies for where he is in the tier list. The main difficulties pika has against them is catching fox and not getting locked down (and then combo destroyed) by falco.
PikaChad believes ICs are pika's worst matchup, and I think that's fair. Peach and Jiggs do give pikachu a lot of trouble, he has a tough time getting in clean on either of them, and they both can edgeguard him decently enough.
On a related note, I have decided now to play mario specifically against peach. I am not good enough to beat her with pikachu at the moment
PikaChad believes ICs are pika's worst matchup, and I think that's fair. Peach and Jiggs do give pikachu a lot of trouble, he has a tough time getting in clean on either of them, and they both can edgeguard him decently enough.
On a related note, I have decided now to play mario specifically against peach. I am not good enough to beat her with pikachu at the moment
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JazzDynamite!
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2013
- Messages
- 11
Thanks for the quick feedback guys! I can see that the Pikachu boards is going to be a good resource. Any important tips for a new Pikachu player? Any specific traps/gimmicky habits that I should be aware of?
dkuo
Smash Lord
read n64's guide
practice with friends a lot
go to tourneys and connect with the community
join your local fb group if you havent yet
as for self practice the general idea is to make sure you can control your character well. good control = less mistakes
movement, acting out of movements, upb angles, uair hitboxes, consistent shffls/shorthops, chaingrab usmash KO's on ff'ers for FD, etc etc
also make sure to implement shffl nair crossup and know its mixups on shield
practice with friends a lot
go to tourneys and connect with the community
join your local fb group if you havent yet
as for self practice the general idea is to make sure you can control your character well. good control = less mistakes
movement, acting out of movements, upb angles, uair hitboxes, consistent shffls/shorthops, chaingrab usmash KO's on ff'ers for FD, etc etc
also make sure to implement shffl nair crossup and know its mixups on shield
N64
Smash Champion
No problem. Always great to see new pika players spring up! The most important thing to get down with pikachu is his movement. Much of pikachu's strength comes in his mobility. He is able to quickly get in and get away, often setting the pace of the match. If your movement is slow and clunky, though, you lose this advantage and your less stellar range and priority often won't be enough to make up for it. Make sure you're comfortable moving around the stage with Pikachu. Dash dancing, shffling aerials, wavedashing, wavelanding on platforms, jumpcancelling grabs and usmashes, quickattacking to the ledge, and being able to usmash or uair out of shield are all good things to be confident in performing.
dkuo
Smash Lord
AXE 09
Smash Master
Sorry I haven't been on the boards in a while. It's just not the same here to me ever since the update lol.
Anyways, the way I play Pikachu just doesn't work as well vs certain characters (Peach, Jiggs, and to an extent IC's), where my YL does better. I'll admit, my YL doesn't do MUCH better, but I do feel more confident with him in those matchups.
But in every other high tier matchup, a fast aggressive Pikachu can definitely do it! Vs. Spacies, it's all about knocking them down and comboing/gimping them to death. Uair is an amazing tool for knockdowns.
There's a chance I might start streaming in the future just of me practicing stuff, so if it happens, I'll post here and answer any questions you guys may have!
Anyways, the way I play Pikachu just doesn't work as well vs certain characters (Peach, Jiggs, and to an extent IC's), where my YL does better. I'll admit, my YL doesn't do MUCH better, but I do feel more confident with him in those matchups.
But in every other high tier matchup, a fast aggressive Pikachu can definitely do it! Vs. Spacies, it's all about knocking them down and comboing/gimping them to death. Uair is an amazing tool for knockdowns.
There's a chance I might start streaming in the future just of me practicing stuff, so if it happens, I'll post here and answer any questions you guys may have!
Cassio
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 3,185
So yesterday I entered a tournament and played someone who I almost always beat anytime we play. This time he went shiek and totally wrecked me. I made a salty run through losers but my loss inspired another friend who I definitely always beat to use sheik and I lost game 1. In desperation I switched to Marth who I never practice with and beat him game 2 three stocked and barely beat his sheik game 3 with pika on Yoshis (was afraid hed pick a MU I wouldnt feel comfortable with as Marth). I replayed the first sheik that beat me and swept him in some close-but-not-that-close games.
But the massive difference between pretty bad losses as pika to solid win as Marth was redic.
So now even if I have a counter-pick for Sheik, I need to learn how to fight sheik with pika for any surprise counter-picks like I had to deal with. How do I manage this abysmal MU?
But the massive difference between pretty bad losses as pika to solid win as Marth was redic.
So now even if I have a counter-pick for Sheik, I need to learn how to fight sheik with pika for any surprise counter-picks like I had to deal with. How do I manage this abysmal MU?
dkuo
Smash Lord
sheik is hard. i recommend just learning another character for that MU lmao
i tried
dont get grabbed obviously, theres so much stuff that leads into grab too lol. theres also stuff that doesnt lead into grab but works anyways because of your own shield tendencies
if you do get grabbed DI the dthrow cg offstage towards the closest ledge, or mixup your DI between slight behind & full behind (relative to sheik's facing direction)
i think you can jump/aerial out around 60-70, even lower if the sheik is bad at cgs. slight behind DI gives you the most vertical trajectory which maximizes your chance to jump out (also sets up getting hit by tipper usmash...so be careful lol)
if you cp fod (and sometimes stadium) you can tech dthrow on plats early, and remember tech in place has extra invuln
idk what to say about punishment, im bad with combos vs floaties/semifloaties. maybe axe can help with that
what i can say is, like every other character you want to juggle around with uair and stay below/grounded
uair chain > dair finish is my go-to vs floaties
pika has slightly better ground movement than sheik imo. they have about the same speed, but interestingly enough pika has a much larger initial dash (more accurate to say sheik's initial dash is tiny)
i find myself falling back on dd camp > whiff-punishing a lot with nair/grab vs sheik...so it kind of devolves into playing like fox with a bad dd and weaker/less reliable punish starters. i also like run-in dtilts or zoning out with ftilt
whiff-punishing aerials and dash attack seems to work well for me. be wary of ac fair though
try not to play too offensively since its all too easy to get your nair swatted by sheik's anything (including grab)
you can lob nairs into sheiks movement but otherwise she has a pretty easy time swatting you out
cc counterattacks at early% work well vs sheik as any character. once you get around ~50% though itll start getting ruff
you can cc a lot of stuff like tilts and dashattack, punish with grab/smash/dtilt/etcetc
also remember that run-in dtilt is cc'd automatically since you have to cancel the run with crouch
remember that for edgeguarding you should just edgehog > regular getup on sheik's poof (for any character)
recovery on stage: to start the edgeguard again you can bthrow or fsmash, but if sheik is at high% you can just usmash
going to ledge from high height: usmash, fsmash, etc
going to ledge from slight height: sometimes usmash isnt fast enough. turnaround dtilt maybe? idk
going to ledge straight: normal getup kills this option
you can also edgehog > roll if you hard-read sheik going for ledge but iono
if you do get grabbed DI the dthrow cg offstage towards the closest ledge, or mixup your DI between slight behind & full behind (relative to sheik's facing direction)
i think you can jump/aerial out around 60-70, even lower if the sheik is bad at cgs. slight behind DI gives you the most vertical trajectory which maximizes your chance to jump out (also sets up getting hit by tipper usmash...so be careful lol)
if you cp fod (and sometimes stadium) you can tech dthrow on plats early, and remember tech in place has extra invuln
idk what to say about punishment, im bad with combos vs floaties/semifloaties. maybe axe can help with that
what i can say is, like every other character you want to juggle around with uair and stay below/grounded
uair chain > dair finish is my go-to vs floaties
pika has slightly better ground movement than sheik imo. they have about the same speed, but interestingly enough pika has a much larger initial dash (more accurate to say sheik's initial dash is tiny)
i find myself falling back on dd camp > whiff-punishing a lot with nair/grab vs sheik...so it kind of devolves into playing like fox with a bad dd and weaker/less reliable punish starters. i also like run-in dtilts or zoning out with ftilt
whiff-punishing aerials and dash attack seems to work well for me. be wary of ac fair though
try not to play too offensively since its all too easy to get your nair swatted by sheik's anything (including grab)
you can lob nairs into sheiks movement but otherwise she has a pretty easy time swatting you out
cc counterattacks at early% work well vs sheik as any character. once you get around ~50% though itll start getting ruff
you can cc a lot of stuff like tilts and dashattack, punish with grab/smash/dtilt/etcetc
also remember that run-in dtilt is cc'd automatically since you have to cancel the run with crouch
remember that for edgeguarding you should just edgehog > regular getup on sheik's poof (for any character)
recovery on stage: to start the edgeguard again you can bthrow or fsmash, but if sheik is at high% you can just usmash
going to ledge from high height: usmash, fsmash, etc
going to ledge from slight height: sometimes usmash isnt fast enough. turnaround dtilt maybe? idk
going to ledge straight: normal getup kills this option
you can also edgehog > roll if you hard-read sheik going for ledge but iono
i tried
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N64
Smash Champion
good writeup dkuo
is there anything in particular you could remember having difficulty with? Were you getting grabbed a lot? Did you feel like you couldn't approach solidly? Couldn't recover safely? Couldn't air-to-air her well? Always ended up above her? Didn't feel like you were optimally punishing her? etc. Sheik matchup can be tough, but pikachu definately has the tools to dish out some hurt on sheik if he can get things started.
is there anything in particular you could remember having difficulty with? Were you getting grabbed a lot? Did you feel like you couldn't approach solidly? Couldn't recover safely? Couldn't air-to-air her well? Always ended up above her? Didn't feel like you were optimally punishing her? etc. Sheik matchup can be tough, but pikachu definately has the tools to dish out some hurt on sheik if he can get things started.
N64
Smash Champion
I don't think we have something like that, but i can write up something real quick. This is just things that come to mind, so others are free to add on / revise it as they wish.
Fastfallers:
Uthrow -> regrab works up to 110%ish on FD, at which point you can finish with a usmash. On other stages you can uthrow and either platform techchase if they go to a platform, regrab if they don't, or just usmash if you expect them to go to a platform after your next regrab and you want guaranteed damage instead of possibly missing the platform techchase.
If they're at very high percents, uthrow->nair/bair works
Bthrow often sets up good edgeguarding opportunities
Normal:
Uthrow -> usmash works on a lot of mid-floatiness characters at very low percents
Uthrow -> dair works at low-mid percents
Uthrow -> nair (or uthrow->uair->nair) works at mid-high percents
Dthrow can set up techchases at low percents or force them to choose if they want to try to tech or double jump out (and you can potentially follow them with an aerial) at higher percents. This is often difficult to follow up with anything substantial, though.
Bthrow often sends them offstage and sets up edgeguards at any percent.
Floaties:
Uthrow -> nair works at very low percents.
Uthrow -> uair is about all you'll get after that.
Dthrow lets them DI away and double jump out, which you often can't directly follow up, but can give you a positional advantage potentially.
Bthrow sends them offstage. They'll get enough height that it doesn't usually lead to a good edgeguarding opportunity, but it does give you stage control.
Common elements you can see are: Uthrow for combos. Even if you don't get the combo, it puts the opponent above pikachu, which is almost always what pikachu wants. Dthrow is unreliable, but can create unique situations. Bthrow for whenever you want to get them offstage. Fthrow is pretty much only useful if you grab them right next to the edge while facing offstage.
Fastfallers:
Uthrow -> regrab works up to 110%ish on FD, at which point you can finish with a usmash. On other stages you can uthrow and either platform techchase if they go to a platform, regrab if they don't, or just usmash if you expect them to go to a platform after your next regrab and you want guaranteed damage instead of possibly missing the platform techchase.
If they're at very high percents, uthrow->nair/bair works
Bthrow often sets up good edgeguarding opportunities
Normal:
Uthrow -> usmash works on a lot of mid-floatiness characters at very low percents
Uthrow -> dair works at low-mid percents
Uthrow -> nair (or uthrow->uair->nair) works at mid-high percents
Dthrow can set up techchases at low percents or force them to choose if they want to try to tech or double jump out (and you can potentially follow them with an aerial) at higher percents. This is often difficult to follow up with anything substantial, though.
Bthrow often sends them offstage and sets up edgeguards at any percent.
Floaties:
Uthrow -> nair works at very low percents.
Uthrow -> uair is about all you'll get after that.
Dthrow lets them DI away and double jump out, which you often can't directly follow up, but can give you a positional advantage potentially.
Bthrow sends them offstage. They'll get enough height that it doesn't usually lead to a good edgeguarding opportunity, but it does give you stage control.
Common elements you can see are: Uthrow for combos. Even if you don't get the combo, it puts the opponent above pikachu, which is almost always what pikachu wants. Dthrow is unreliable, but can create unique situations. Bthrow for whenever you want to get them offstage. Fthrow is pretty much only useful if you grab them right next to the edge while facing offstage.
dkuo
Smash Lord
nice
im gonna put it out there that i prefer uthrow to any other option 90% of the time
if im by the edge ill bthrow about half of the time. moreso if opponent is at higher %. almost never vs puff
here are some jank grab things that only work if the opponents arent aware of them and can otherwise escape
- fthrow regrab. sometimes i do this for positional reasons. you dont have a real followup or advantage on fthrow though unless its fthrow offstage
- some floaties dont know dthrow doesnt guarantee followups which can give you dthrow usmash KO. vs nair mashers you could try dthrow > shield > counterattack
i also just thought of something, could you potentially setup a gimp situation by the edge with dthrow vs ff'ers who are trying to di your cg offstage?
im assuming itll put them right below the lip of the stage
im gonna put it out there that i prefer uthrow to any other option 90% of the time
if im by the edge ill bthrow about half of the time. moreso if opponent is at higher %. almost never vs puff
here are some jank grab things that only work if the opponents arent aware of them and can otherwise escape
- fthrow regrab. sometimes i do this for positional reasons. you dont have a real followup or advantage on fthrow though unless its fthrow offstage
- some floaties dont know dthrow doesnt guarantee followups which can give you dthrow usmash KO. vs nair mashers you could try dthrow > shield > counterattack
i also just thought of something, could you potentially setup a gimp situation by the edge with dthrow vs ff'ers who are trying to di your cg offstage?
im assuming itll put them right below the lip of the stage
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OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Stopped playing Pika a while back because it wasn't getting me anywhere, but now that I've improved my game outside of Pika I'm going to pick him up again as a fun secondary.
What are some MUs that are very fun to play as Pika?
What are some MUs that are very fun to play as Pika?
N64
Smash Champion
mediocre spacies are fun
falcon is fun
ganon (can be) fun
some low tier matchups are fun
i think sheik is fun, but i doubt many would agree
pika is just a fun char!
falcon is fun
ganon (can be) fun
some low tier matchups are fun
i think sheik is fun, but i doubt many would agree
pika is just a fun char!
dkuo
Smash Lord
spacies are mad fun to play against. even good ones lol
so are marth/sheik/peach imo. ive taken a liking to playing vs peach in general lately
i dont actually like playing against falcon. with any character. idk lol
so are marth/sheik/peach imo. ive taken a liking to playing vs peach in general lately
i dont actually like playing against falcon. with any character. idk lol
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Where can I find some of these?
I completely agree with this.
Also when practicing solo with Pika what do you guys tend to do?
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N64
Smash Champion
back in 2009
movement options. I just run around the stage a lot, throw in wavelands on platforms and shffld aerials, quick attack to the ledge from the stage and from different positions offstage, waveland on to the stage a few times (and/or practice other from-the-ledge options). That's mostly what I do unless there's something specifically I want to work on.OliClutch117 said:
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dkuo
Smash Lord
i like movement. practice invuln ledgedash a lot, super useful
something a little weird i like practice shifting my nair spacing/timing around. neutral/walk/run startup + forward/back jump + early/mid/late nair + fades
practice shielddrop uair vs lv 9 cpu, they'll jump and aerial your shield and you want to counterattack before the cpu can theoretically do other stuff. practice vs different chars
hitting your uairs properly is important and useful to practice
...
all that said i dont really practice pika that much
most of my time goes into falco lol
something a little weird i like practice shifting my nair spacing/timing around. neutral/walk/run startup + forward/back jump + early/mid/late nair + fades
practice shielddrop uair vs lv 9 cpu, they'll jump and aerial your shield and you want to counterattack before the cpu can theoretically do other stuff. practice vs different chars
hitting your uairs properly is important and useful to practice
...
all that said i dont really practice pika that much
most of my time goes into falco lol
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