Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[N64]

Chad would say switch chars.
I say play whatever you're most comfortable with.
It's considered one of pika's worst matchups, so if you want to play another char vs them that's entirely reasonable.

 

[oukd]

i used to think they were pikas worst matchup but i put sheik above them now. but i still historically do the worst against ics. its a bad time x(

...maybe because the only ics ive played against in tourney with pika were nintendude and chudat

 

[ramenchu]

Yeah it's rough... so IF i do decide to stay Pika, what are some tips? My main goal is to just not get grabbed and separate them with either down smash or back throw..

 

[N64]

downsmash is suuuuuper risky. Good payoff of course, but it's a pretty easy grab on whiff/shield. The main thing I'd do in the matchup is never be on the same level as them if you can avoid it. Ban FD, and if they're on the stage, throw jolts from a platform until they jump at you or move towards you. Then either go to the other platform or drop down and try to stay below them for aerial juggles. Once you seperate them with a uair/nair/whatever, kill nana (unless you have a pretty guaranteed KO on popo). Then kill popo, while still avoiding the same plane as them. You can still try to do normal pika stuff, jump in an nair and such, but you can never land next to them. If they shield it, you also have to be ready for the wd oos towards you -> dsmash. Either try to shield this or dash away (risky) or jump (risky).

backthrow is ok until the ICs catch on. I like it as an option, but it's pretty scary just running up to ICs and trying to grab them as pika. Also know that if you grab nana and the player reacts to your throw he can wd forward into a grab/dsmash. Fortunately, if he grabs you're probably near the edge anyways so he won't get too too much out of it, but he'll still dthrow->fsmash probably. And then may be able to save nana before you get back.

You really have to pick your spots and be super careful about your positioning every approach. Because if the ICs are good and you misspace one approach, your stock is gone.

 

[-Chad-]

Vs M2K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKEN6ebgQU4
Vs Darkatma https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKvT-Tej2wk
Vs CT Zero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jykesuOReZI
Vs Soft (only Doc) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZT0qEoHvzE

 

[oukd]

that commentator station is intense af

awesome videos btw. the end of game 1 vs m2k
why YS though? you went there 3 times vs m2k and struck there vs atma too

 

[N64]

those upB whiffs were painful I feel for ya.
good stuff though, very enjoyable sets.

 

[AXE 09]

Vs IC's, lots and lots of Uairs to split them up. Dsmash is decent if you're behind them, but otherwise I'd say to only use it if you're confident that it'll connect.
If you're going to grab, try to grab Popo and immediately Bthrow. If you grab Nana, you're most likely going to get punished if it's against a good IC's player with a WD Dsmash or something.
Spacing Dtilts is very good. Very fast move that IC's can't punish if you're out of grab range.
Basically just try your best to separate them and not get grabbed lol.


Pikachad, I saw your set vs M2K and OMG MAN wtf you did so well! If just a few things went differently, you definitely could have won.

 

[-Chad-]

I commentated on my matches I posted earlier on my stream tonight so if you want to check out what I have to say throughout the matches you can check them out here

http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/profile

that links to my twitch page and they're under highlights.

 

[festizzio]

Good stuff Chad! I really like how well you utilize wavelands, your style is very cool. I really thought you had him >_<

 

[Palmerfan]

I know I'm a little late to the party here, but I wanna thank you guys for doing that super long pikachu talk, helped my understanding of the character a lot!

 

[-Chad-]

I'm glad it helped in some way or another :D

Sorry I still haven't got around to making up the list of useful things from the video but I'm always very busy with somethign or another >_<

 

[FourStar]

What is a good counterpick stage against Falco and Sheik. I personally like going to fountain against Falco and Pokemon Stadium against sheik but idk if that really is a good idea.

 

[oukd]

vs faclo - imo fod is a great choice if they ban fd. a lot of falcos are getting more comfortable with fod nowadays but it still doesnt change the fact that it disrupts their laser game a lot, not to mention the mini-fd layout allows cg usmash like fd. i also like dl64 since you survive longer, but its quite a rough map vs defensive falcos

vs sheik - i confuse myself over this a bit too. ps is pretty good but im personally very weak on that stage. nice low ceiling and transformations though. some other ideas

- bf takes away her wall stuff (recovery, walljump, w/e) and sometimes this makes edgeguarding more comfortable for me. highish ceiling though
- dl64 can extend your survival a bit but giving that much space to sheik tends to bite me in the neck a lot. also really high ceiling
- fod can disrupt her chaingrab but other than that its still a hella sheik-y stage and i dont like it if my opponent is comfortable on a stage

 

[oukd]

i did a swd in tourney today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_pPTAqQKxg&t=5m28s

anyways
i forgot my cp plan today (supposed to ban fd after winning on it lol) but as a result i have some footage of me getting beat up by marth. also didnt do that well in vs fox either...this counterpick is still a work in progress so i dont feel too bad <_< plus i should learn other matchups on fd too since people will often switch characters on fd anyways

ignore game 1, feel free to give critique on games 2 and 3. the ending of game 3 is pretty funny tho huehuehue

i feel like vs marth it was really rough getting in through tilts and aerials but through the course of the match finding openings became much easier. i never really felt like i was winning but near the end i became much more comfortable with landing hits. my punish and gimp game vs floaties are pretty bad since my pika is usually a fastfaller-exclusive cp

i also got pretty lucky that the marth didnt know how to punish pika very well so i got away for free a lot

i think i have a hard time getting myself to initiate nairs against shields - its like i feel like if i dont hit the opponent ill die or something but obviously pika has a bunch of crossup stuff after nair. speaking of crossup stuff, i didnt do a lot of that either ~_~

also pika's ledgedashing is awesome
but rewatching the set i found a bunch of ledgehop uair opportunities that i didnt take since i was so preoccupied with ledgedashing

 

[ChivalRuse]

I don't know why you felt like you had to rely on rising upair to beat out that fox's approaches. I feel like he was on a low enough level that you could have just dash dance camped him into as many grabs as you wanted.

Also, my pika combos better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUPzLoe96Q

 

[oukd]

lmao thats not fair at all joe

as for the uair oos reliance, its interesting you say that since i actually didnt think about that a lot during vs fox - my mentality was initially focused on landing dd nairs/grabs and my uair oos'es were purely reactionary, but over the course of the match i started to put my shield up a lot since it seemed like the fox often did stuff that was easy to uair oos against. of course, i only came to this conclusion in retrospect as i didnt consciously think about this lol

however i do feel less confident about dd grabs if the opponent's character possesses a comparable or better dd, so i can probably fall back on dd grab more by identifying openings. kind of odd since that was like all i used to do lol ~_~ i had a mild aggro streak yesterday for some reason

 

[Cassio]

Well Im not sure if someone else is gonna respond, but:

-SDI :< really hurts me to watch peeps get hit by uthrow uair. If you have a wii + brawl try this for practice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvmb3gj9Qo

-Opponent Full hops: He seemed to like to full hop A LOT and you either didnt notice or got scared about capitalizing. I know fox's who do this too, but if they do it frequently you can usually catch them or force their second jump.

-Uair capitalization: It felt like times after a uair you didnt capitalize as much as you could in follow ups or momentum.

-Edgeguarding: You sorta mentioned this already, but I felt like you were trying to cover all options but ended up giving him fairly safe ways back. Im not sure if its possible to cover all options on reaction since the only pika I think who might be capable of it is axe, but one thing thats helped me for tournament or seriouslies is to guess whether they'll a) come back right away probably with side b, or b) delay and perhaps firefox. You can usually make a really good guess if you watch your opponent, and if you stick to one and guess right its pretty much a guaranteed gimp. And you probably already know but nair priority sucks and wont go through firefox. Also be careful of doing the same thing too many times.

-Chaingrab: I think if you grab him at high 70's, fox'll die to an upsmash (final percent uthrow + usmash is in the 90's)

-Hesitation: I feel like vs Marth you hesitated before approaching sometimes and it allowed him to react to a lot of your approaches instead of it being safe for you.

-Crouch Canceling: Feel like you didnt really crouch cancel much especially against marth. I feel like its worth taking a hit not only bc Marth dies much earlier but pika I feel gains so much more off the momentum. I think its important to keep in mind that even if youre a bit ahead in percent the match is close bc its easier to kill him.

I also agree about the ledgehop uair. Thats always the first thing I look for bc the momentum reversal is massive.

 

[oukd]

i used to be better with sdi's but yeah i missed a bunch of them that day ill get them next time lol

i feel uncomfortable capitalizing against fh sice pika priority isnt the greatest. plus, a lot of aerials against low% might just lead to the opponent leaving hitstun early and hitting me instead...maybe im just underestimating pika hitstun idk (same deal for uair capitalization)
if i fall back on waiting in their fh trajectory i usually do better, but at the same time i dont get to capitalize as often

vs spacies im very comfortable with passive edgeguards as long as i keep them cornered. imo reacting by the ledge is ideal and i usually do well off of that
one problem i had was that i sometimes just naired into nowhere as a preemptive attempt at edgeguarding, and gave up position a few times as a result

i do remember that messed up low edgeguard at 7:20 and actually planned a lot of it out in that split second lol
it shouldve been pretty free if i just fastfell earlier with invuln, but i didnt think fast enough to keep the invuln
i was also hesitant about my other aerials - they either felt like they would be too laggy to hit (dair/bair) or be in a weird position to actually hit (fair/uair), but in retrospect a fastfalling crossup fair wouldve sealed the deal (lower firefox > edgehog first, or trade > uair spike)
i also didnt want to hit with a dj aerial since i got very greedy about ending his recovery at a low point (which i think was the main issue overall)

i agree with cc, i have so much trouble implementing it as pika for some reason. the most i do is cc dsmash but outside of that i feel like im just gonna get knocked over lol <_<

anyways, thanks joe and cassio

 

[-Chad-]

So I played in a tourny in GA this weekend and my last three sets were recorded on the stream here

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/529841356

I dunno how to link specific times so sorry about that >_>

 

[Cassio]

Woah where do you live? Cuz if you live in Nor Cal that would be so awesome ^_^

By the way, I live in San Luis Obispo. Hopefully Ill make it to NorCal sometime.

 

[festizzio]

Specifically, how do you get out of grabs so quickly? Chad, I was just watching your grandfinals and noticed you escaped sheik's grab at 50% really fast, when I have trouble escaping grabs that fast at 0%. What am I doing wrong?

 

[oukd]

@ festizzio im not chad but
http://clashtournaments.com/mew2kings-melee-information-and-discoveries/#22

you want to mash the face buttons fast, while rotating your control stick if possible
mashing triggers or z is unrealistic

personally i put my right hand into a closed palm and pat the a/b/x/y really fast while rotating control stick
make sure you react to the throw so that you DI it though. if you know the opponent has an unreactable throw then rotating control stick might not be ideal

also you can start mashing preemptively if you know a grab is inevitable lol



also, kadano (the resident frame god on the marth boards) recently did some research into ledgedashing
pika has a max of 13 actionable invuln frames out of ledgedash

http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/page-20#post-16761069

to increase ledgedash consistency you should try to keep your ECB state consistent. personally i use the instant upb rehog tech to do this but you can also do a non-ff'd rehog for a better ECB (although you arent invuln when doing this)

im not sure if the ECB after upb rehog can still achieve 13 actionable invuln frames but if it can then it'll probably be optimal compared to non-ff'd rehog

more info on instant upb rehog http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-...nd-n64-feat-dkuo.240209/page-66#post-13216682
http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-...nd-n64-feat-dkuo.240209/page-66#post-13230547

more info on ECB states and ledgedashing http://smashboards.com/threads/how-pre-ledgegrab-body-states-affect-your-ledgedash-timing.346128/

 

[-Chad-]

I rotate the stick really really fast and slide my thumb across the face buttons if I know they want to pummel

 

[festizzio]

That really helps a lot! I had no idea rotating the analog stick did anything, I was just mashing the face buttons as fast as I could.

Edit with another question: At what percents/DI is uthrow to usmash guaranteed and on what chars? I'm referring specifically to characters other than Fox/Falco/Falcon. I know it's guaranteed on characters like Sheik/Ganon at low percents, but I want to know when it stops working.

 

[FourStar]

Ok so lately I have been having trouble with Falco. What are the basics of Pika vs. Falco? I know i have to work for the gimp but how do i work around the lasers and d-airs? Also, is d-smash a good overall option? I feel like with defensive Falcos (which i have the most trouble with, aggressive Falcos are easy to punish for me for some reason....idk) find the a way to punish d-smash easily.

 

[Cassio]

Found this on reddit, lol

http://gfycat.com/BonyFarIndigobunting

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/26dsvp/pikachad_infinite_jab_from_ufgtx/

 

[N64]

Dsmash is high risk reward. It's useful in the falco matchup as an anti-air because it can straight up beat his dair. As always, it's easily punishable on shield/whiff, and flaco punishes hard.

I think the two major aspects of beating good falcos are 1) dealing with lasers and 2) not missing edgeguards. Lasers lock down pikachu, and once he stops you from moving it's that much tougher to deal with his strong approach options. The best ways to deal with them are to powershield them and to preempt them with your vertical movement. If you think he wants to shoot a laser at stage level, get to a platform or fullhop towards him. If he wants to shoot lasers higher than that, dash under it towards him. If you don't want to avoid it (due to it putting you in a worse position), powershield.

The other part, you have to punish Falco hard. Techchase well, send him offstage, chase him offstage, don't let him get back. You won't get many opportunities, and Falco will be capitalizing well on the ones he gets.

As far as other good stuff, uh. Ftilt edgeguarding is pretty useful for when you can't get to him. Uair is of course really useful, even if it trades with his aerial you'll often be able to get into a better position from it than him. And since getting in on him from neutral can be tough, and you can kill him off one solid combo-edgeguard, positional advantage is really important in this matchup.

 

[oukd]

some thoughts vs turtle style falco, and some general vs falco stuff
just rambling so this is probably super duper unstructured

i really like interrupting defensive falcos by just straight up invading their space with run-ins. this is a general thing i do with every character vs falco and it makes the falco more willing to move around instead of lasercamping under a plat or something. this makes dd'ing around a threatening range more likely to get falco to commit as they are now antsy about getting cornered...but it has to be said that falco's approaches are so good in general that this might backfire lol

if you demonstrate competency in powershielding, the falco tends to try tricking you more with lasers (and subsequently gives you more openings)
i feel like nowadays there are two types of falcos in regards to playing against powershield
1. the falco sees you can powershield a few lasers and changes their laser game in a significant manner
2. you could powershield like 90% of his lasers, the falco disregards your powershielding and continues to laser as they previously did (usually this just means a lot of lasers all the time)

identifying the reaction helps a lot:
1. lasering weird makes powershielding harder but also gives you new openings. examples of stuff you can work against: empty hops/lasers, dd'ing, zoning, etc
2. if they continue to laser the same (aka frequently) initiating powershield counterattacks becomes easier since lasers are easier to predict and work off of

this also applies to regular wdoos vs laser too, but to a lesser extent since its a little less threatening/more common

general technique that works with a lot of floaties: if you shorthop into getting hit by a laser you can waveland out of it

streamlining your punishment goes without saying, but prioritize getting falco offstage over racking damage unless
1. you see a clear sequence to usmash ko
2. falco's at early% and you really want to break their cc option first

obviously if you can get both damage and offstage-ness then go for that

i love pika dsmash personally. its such a reliable tool to fall back on if i know i can land a hit/trade, especially since it comes out so fast
it throws off the opponent's momentum but has the problem of unreliable followups

final note...ultimately, youre going to have to work with the laser as much as you can if you want to do well against a reserved falco who knows what hes doing
falco's laser makes the matchup feel like youre playing an unbalanced rps game instead of super smash brothers melee for the nintendo gamecube

one last thing, falco can't play a super reaction-based game that the good dashdancers can play (unless he employs platforms very well). remember his groundspeed is quite poor

 

[silkym39]

I was wondering how pika's quick attack lag and the uair hitbox works. Vids would be amazing, but a simple explanation would be good too.

 

[oukd]

qa lag is interesting. theres 3 different landing lags
1. qa into the ground/grounded qa: really really laggy
2. qa between just barely hovering above the ground and reasonably high off the ground: high lag
3. qa really high above the ground and falling (high enough so that you can manipulate your horizontal movement on falling): low lag

for 3 you want to end your upb a little higher than the length of 1 vertical qa off the ground

uair: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1pnrco/question_about_pikachus_upair_gif/cd45f6n

 

[Cassio]

Falco is my least favorite MU in the game. I was hoping there would be some magic answer to him, but it seems like Ive been playing him with the best strat already . Guess I just need to improve my punish game.

By the way can someone explain to me why people hate peach/why its sometimes considered pikas worst MU. Peach is tough but I've honestly never had too much trouble.

 

[-Chad-]

Falco is really hard to deal with, my basic plan is just to hit with a u-air and then don't screw up follow ups >_>

 

[N64]

I'll take this one! Because i hate playing against peach.

Peach has a number of advantages in the matchup. She's floaty, so your fancy juggles don't work. She has good crouchcancel options (hey there dsmash), and Pika has trouble with crouchcancellers. She can stall for days with her recovery, so jumping off to apply edgeguarding pressure is more difficult/risky. She challenges you well in the air, all her aerials are good for certain situations/positions. She's a strong defensive character, and your approach options aren't too great.

There is the other side, of course. Usmash kills her at super low, uair spike wrecks her recovery if you can hit it, etc. But her neutral game and defensive options (along with being hard-to-combo once you do get in) are mainly what give me so much trouble in the matchup.

 

[FourStar]

I honestly find playing peach is easier than falco. Peach has a harder time to catch up with pikachu's speed. Plus most peach players are never ready for a pikachu LOL. But thanks for all the Falco advice!

 

[-Chad-]

did a mini vid on why pika's u-air does what it does and why

http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/c/4343968

 

[N64]

should have been a 5 second video of "BECAUSE IT'S A GODDAMN TAIL"

I am dissapoint

 

[oukd]

oh i always thought it was based on the frames lol

thanks for the vod

 

[N64]

i also thought it was based on the frames. I have been wrong alllll theeeeese yeaaaaaarsssss. Makes sense though.

 

[silkym39]

did a mini vid on why pika's u-air does what it does and why

http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/c/4343968

That was perfect. Thanks.