Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

How does everyone feel about doc he chain throws a bit and combos some after but then is kind of stuck with stray hits.

I normally just dd camp being smart about pills but keep my space and i nair through his fair/upair(based on placement and let him whiff nairs. Slowly keep him in check and look for when he'll do a bad 2nd jump and kill him at 30%. That said these matches played like this generally take 7 minutes where I don't mind at all.

However the doc i play says it's harder to deal with me being aggro with cross-ups(run away punish bair oos) or super low nair to nair that beats grabs if i'm fairly frame perfect.

These matches take 4 minutes tops

Both seem to let me win because i'm wait through anything or stall till i have an opening. But which is generally better in Your exp. really offense gives us both more chances to mess up and is easier to get a lead but harder to hold. Where by being patience i've made a 3 stock come back which is insanely hard vs doc.

 

[FourStar]

bair oos is a hard read. As dkuo said, uair generally hit confirms into bair anyways, so you get more out of a uair anyways. Bair might do more damage against super floaties, but even then it's missing the big thing. Bair is risky. If it hits, fine. If it whiffs or hits their shield, you're stuck flailing in the air for a second, which is a long time in smash. Even if the opponent can't directly punish it, you still have a decent amount of landing lag (compared to other aerials) so you'll minimally just end up in a slightly worse situation.

It might be somewhat viable if your opponent is at super high percents, as uair would hit them too high to combo and the strong hit of bair would kill them, while the weak hit would still probably knock them down. But it's still pretty risky and relying on them to mess up and not know how to deal with bair.

It's not terrible, it's just generally... why bair when you could uair instead? heh.

LOL. I like U-air OoS better anyways. But, what if I'm sheilding and i wanna throw out a hard move OoS? Does N-air OoS work?

 

[oukd]

@ IndianapolisCentralGaming docs are pretty tough for me. in short, pika is one of the rare characters doc can zone out with some semblance of outprioritizing, plus his punish/counterattack game is much stronger than pika's. i feel his edgeguard tools vs pika are slightly better than other characters too

im generally a defensive player so id usually recommend patient and reactionary play - your tilts make your zoning game somewhat on par with doc's and you have a slight edge on mobility too. personally i try to use pika tilts like marth would vs doc but idk how effective that is...im not comfortable being any more proactive than that as pika in this MU, at least until openings appear. going aggro with crossups and such is okay if you have doc's movement locked in shield or something, just remember nair gets swatted/cc'd pretty easily so i prefer waiting for opportunities to open up since you have mobility on your side. this doesn't mean to dd camp forever though, imo you still need to put the fact that you can nair crossup in doc's mind at some point or hes gonna take up stage control and doesnt afraid of anything

also n64 knows the matchup thoroughly, i recommend reading his guide for doc. smashmac and dogysamich have guides for doc v pika in the doc subforum too, gives insight on doc's perspective

@ FourStar if you want to throw out a hard move then sure. you also have (depending on circumstance) nair, dair, and usmash
just remember youll usually just do uair into any of the strong aerials

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

I don't use pikachu i use pichu. Honestly doc has honestly always been an easy match-up it's 60-40 doc favor but pichu has those great gimps that pika misses out on surprisingly just because i can get a double nair him off stage and drift back to the stage and wall jump nair. Just a inv. nair at an angle doc has a lot of problems with.

I've also alreadly right those fairly out of date guides. But i haven't heard enough thoughts on should I press my offense or let doc struggle with my dd/shield.

Pi wins the neutral fo sure but honestly idk how doc can approach with the threat of nair without nairing himself with is… slower. Maybe bair waveland? How does doc zone? I know pill bounce try to grab/nair but it has more holes than it looks when You think pi needs to be in place and retreating to platforms light shielding doc can't just pressure that without waveland grab which is predictable and you'd be surprised by how offen i get free grabs because they try.



But approaching doc is way easier than luigi. That match-up is bait only or be magic.

 

[oukd]

wait wait wait

indianapoliscentralgaming
icg

o m g

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

Omg? You mean over manly guy?

It's like batman beyond is batman, like he is batman, the clone of batman. People don't understand that he is batman.

I main ics now but i make people who pick a mario or link look super dumb. Pichu is and always has been my safely blanket cause that nair is way to legit. Like there is no problem that can't be solved with sh maybe nair. Empty pull backs make sheik fun to fight.

 

[N64]

dkuo you bloodhound.

doc is tough. Pills are good. Dthrow chainthrow is rough. Dthrow to fair hurts. Doc's neutral game is also decent (thanks mostly to pills and utilt). His bair can also be a little scary. It's a bad matchup for pikachu imo, but not terrible. Just get doc up in the air any way you can and keep him there.

Edit: also yes, nair works oos if they're behind you (so usmash oos isn't an option).

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

I understand it fairly well like forcing him to 2nd jump so You can easily gimp at the dumbest percents.

Just thoughts on should I force him to make the first move or should i come in on him(could be an empty but i'm advancing)

I know it's based on the doc/myself but i don't mind 7 minute matches or keeping doc on lock.

Doc's offense will fizz out much faster than mine and is more about having me approach into bad stuff

 

[N64]

Doc is a char you kind of have to approach. If you don't he'll slowly advance with pills until you don't have any space. You don't have to play the whole match aggressively, and if he wants to just be aggressive then it's fine to play just runaway punish pikachu. If he's patient, though, you'll have to approach.

 

[oukd]

@ IndianapolisCentralGaming axe just had a very solid set with shroomed at scr that you could reference later

i dont think the threat of nair is too vital unless the doc is ultradefensive or taking up too much stage control. you can poke a lot with tilts through his walls, and that threatens doc a lot by itself since doc doesnt really have any advancing pokes other than his lame wd ftilt. with that said i like to at least remind the opponent that i have that option by doing it at least once or twice, regardless of matchup

grats on the 4th btw @ AXE 09 , youll get em next time
study up on your sfat sets

 

[mynameisdog4]

http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/507707779?t=218m

Heres the link to the Axe Shroomed set. Great job Axe, those Sfat sets were intense.

 

[DerfMidWest]

ICG pichu get annihilated by doc lmaoooo
you can't get through bair walls.

you can nair through pills though and jolt destroys his recovery if you manage to get him off stage.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

Bro wall jump inv. nair is the best gimp option because doc dis high and recovers low but jolts to snipe jumps are amazing when they come

Nothing beats pichu nair game but peach and maybe ics. If pichu was in pm i'd request nair do 14% and round out the hitbox and change none of the animations of his jumps/lands then ask to heal the closer he gets and make self damage only happen when retreating farish away(stun/recovery not counted).

 

[DerfMidWest]

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh what?
yeah off stage doc is dead doc, but you're not going to get doc offstage unless he makes a mistake..
and a good doc is just going to run away with pills and bair wall you...

 

[soju]

Been a while since I entered a tourney let alone trained for one, wish me luck as I make a fool of myself with my rust


- cool icg is back which means I can return and enjoy silliness on smashboards again

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

Hey i believe in You

 

[N64]

sojuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

heya! good clux at the tourney

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

See this what friendship is all about.

Smoking crack in an alley, cannibalizing a bum

I mean it really hits home right here in the heart

 

[soju]

Lol thanks I'll try and record some sets if possible needa remind people that pika is still a threat :3 probably not this tournament but when I get to tip top shape, hope to be back in here a lot more again

 

[oukd]

are you still in norcal soju? maybe we'll bump into each other at some point if im not infinitely busy

 

[soju]

I'm in socal but frequently visit norcal so pretty much all of cali is my oasis :D

 

[FourStar]

SOJU! hey will you be going to any Nor Cal tournies soon? I want to play you and never did at NCR last year

 

[DerfMidWest]

SOOOOJUUU
Still in the airforce?
how's life?

 

[soju]

Depends on what happen this tourney hopefully I get really motivated again and go to every tourney in Cali I'll let you know and yes I'm still in the chair force life's good

 

[FourStar]

Depends on what happen this tourney hopefully I get really motivated again and go to every tourney in Cali I'll let you know and yes I'm still in the chair force life's good

Good to see you back man ^_^

 

[N64]

Pivot downsmash is the new pika tech. That initial hitbox is ridic.

 

[soju]

If my memory serves me right it counters a lot of aerials ?

 

[N64]

Dunno about a lot of aerials, but it beats falco dair more often than it should.

 

[oukd]

it tends to at least trade vs a lot of stuff (trades are kind of crappy since you do like 1%, but it can throw people really off)
people also tend to run into it a lot, or not shield it fully/angle shield properly. iono its like a surprise obstacle-in-the-way type of move

 

[AXE 09]

pivot dsmash is very good lol

 

[Captain Smuckers]

pivot dsmash is very good lol

nice work getting 1st at mayhem, that tourney was really stacked

 

[PrinceCarrots]

Hey I'm looking to pick up Pikachu and hopefully get to the level where I can switch to him as my main. Since this seems to be the only active thread I figured I'd ask for advice here.. Aside from the obvious playing as much as possible with people, what do you guys recommend I do on my own?
Also.. can you L cancel a short hop B-air?
Any other helpful tips or things to look out for during matches would be great too!
Thanks.

 

[SuperNova!]

I'm used to playing Pikachu in Project M, but I just got my own copy of Melee and I'm having trouble QACing. (Sorry if that's not how you write it.) In Melee, trying to QAC seems to cause ending lag, not eliminate it. Does it even work in Melee?

 

[N64]

Yes, you can l-cancel all aerials. Bair just has the most landing lag, so even l-cancelled it will recover a little slow. The main things you can practice on your own are pika's movement and shffling (at least initially). Those are easily the two most important things to have down with pika. Make sure you have a feel for his dashdance distance, wavedashing, wavelanding on platforms at different heights, getting to the edge, etc.

And no SuperNova, you cannot QAC in melee.

 

[SuperNova!]

Yes, you can l-cancel all aerials. Bair just has the most landing lag, so even l-cancelled it will recover a little slow. The main things you can practice on your own are pika's movement and shffling (at least initially). Those are easily the two most important things to have down with pika. Make sure you have a feel for his dashdance distance, wavedashing, wavelanding on platforms at different heights, getting to the edge, etc.

And no SuperNova, you cannot QAC in melee.

Thanks! No wonder it wasn't working.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

You can but You need the timing of a jc shine where You up-b after a jumpand slide across the ground and have normal landing lag and then You get wreaked like a school bus driving off a cliff and everyone is asking why, why did You do it?

Pichu's is semi useable cause less landing lag but at best it's a gimmick like how someone might play roy as a spacey counter, it doesn't really work and there are better options even as pichu

 

[PrinceCarrots]

Alright thanks for the info. Another question: is up tilt a viable move? I don't think I've ever seen it used when watching videos of high level pikachus..

 

[iRobinhoood]

Doc is hard. Jab --> dsmash to strongk

Just from me browsing over it, the biggest thing I noticed was not grabbing ledge and not knowing wtf to do in the neutral game when he was pilling in place.

Video: http://www.twitch.tv/rockmanzerox/b/509159694?t=3h13m07s

 

[N64]

Utilt is situationally viable. I think it's most useful because it comes out kinda slow so you can catch people trying to shieldgrab you or come in after a normal-speed move would have ended. For instance, say Fox is a bit in front of me and i expect him to dash away (to avoid the dtilt/ftilt/usmash that he suspects me to use) and then short hop back in with a nair. I can utilt and probably catch him, and if I whiff it's not great but it recovers pretty fast so i can generally at least shield in time. It's not as bad as missing a fsmash or dsmash, or even usmash.

Edit: From that video, it looked like your neutral game was pretty good against doc. You did a few questionable dairs, seemed to have a little trouble getting around pills, and had some bad survival DI in a few spots, but nothing too glaring on stage. The main thing that I think you could work on in the matchup is edgeguarding. Edgeguarding doc can be pretty awkward at times, but what you tried (when you tried) wasn't working out. If you have the time to get offstage, contesting him offstage with aerials can work out, as even a trade is very likely to kill doc. After the backthrows you'd generally try to upB to the ledge from the stage, which wasn't working. I would have liked to see you instead either dash forward dash back short hop out and try to hit him with a nair or uair (depending on what he does), or hang by the edge and try to ftilt him. Ftilt spacing on doc is pretty tough, though, as you do have to move a bit depending on where he upBs, so i think aerials were the way to go.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Alright I'll work on my edgeguards a bit on Doc and maybe try forward tilting him when he's recovering low. I know what you mean by that spacing so I don't get clipped by his upB. Probably the most crucial thing I haven't dedicated time to yet is invincible ledge dashing.