Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[N64]

Yeah, but honestly I think rising uair oos is so good that a lot of pikas rely on it specifically. I think it's important to utilize other options oos, or not rely much on shield to set up the uair to begin with.

Shine is pretty ****in good though, heh.

 

[oukd]

Yea it is annoying, but keep in mind that rising uair outranges shine short wd oos > uair might work on trigger-happy shiners

 

[Spyro]

I just stay out of Falco's the space animal's shine rang when I'm up airing him.

 

[oukd]

yeah that's a good rule of thumb (to stay out of immediate danger while uairing), but indigestible_wad was talking about them shining you out of uair oos which I'm assuming means that you're being pressured super up close while in shield, in which case you'd have to get out of shine range first if you want to uair them. generally I wouldn't try to uair oos out of pressure, id just wd out and try to regain my space.

 

[indigestible_wad]

It could be when either character drops to the ground actually. It could be a l-canceled nair from fox or pikachu, the timing for a spacie is less than pikachu to follow up. Also shine is invincible and has priority, so if you want to space it right, you have to hit them with the disjointed part of the hitbox so that you don't get hit, I.E. spacing. I'd like to say that I don't act aggressively when they're pressuring my shield, but I'm not always that smart.

 

[Bing]

Random thought because pikachus agility has hitboxes that resets a spacies recovery, if a spacie was recovering from directly below the ledge, couldn't you agility up and Down from the ledge through their charging recovery,knocking them down but by bit until they can't make it?

 

[N64]

Yes, you can. You may trade with Fox, as his upB has a hitbox around it, but that shouldn't matter much. Also, Fox's recovery (and possibly Falco's too) goes further than a single part of your upB, so he'll still be able to recover from outside of your upB's reach.

If they're recovering from that close and in that position while you're on the ledge, though, you could also just kill them with drop->aerial of choice.

 

[oukd]

@bing: yeah that would work if you were fast enough but it wouldn't lower them to a point where they couldn't come back (esp fox). it would work well to bide time for a better edgeguard though. personally i just ftilt lol <_< i'll play around with what you said though next chance i get and see if it's effective or not

@wad: nairing spacies is hard to follow up for me especially at low%, which is why I don't usually go for nairs until they hit ~%20 (this is what I tell myself at least...-_-) unless I'm going for like super far crossup nairs so I know I won't get punished. if i do nair at low% i usually followup with uair, but theoretically it's probably better to see their reaction first.

nairing spacie shields means you should make sure the crossup puts you past their shine oos range. actually, nairing shields in general means you should crossup past the most far-reaching oos option they have until you're confident in reading their reaction.

also, controlling early/late nairs are really important if you want to tighten your pressure. nair on shield/character instead of instant nair out of jump for tighter pressure with stronger shieldstun and a smaller frame window for the opponent. early nair means you're covered in a hitbox for a longer duration of your jump, making you safer against certain offensive styles but also making you a hell of a lot easier to read if you keep doing it, not to mention the weaker, more lenient/predictable shieldstun makes punishing it a lot easier. weak nairs can be more effective at times in continuing combos than strong nair, and can establish a certain amount of control in the match because you're putting out a long-lasting hitbox that's flying everywhere (which effectively conditions your opponent as well).

vs pressure - all I can say is fox nairshines are vicious and should be outspaced at all times if possible, but usually getting caught doesn't mean death for pika. getting hit by shine is less of a worry than getting hit by nair, so if you know you're going to buckle to one of them at least make it the shine. falco pressure is more doable for me personally due to his low horizontal velocity and wider windows of escape.

oh yeah speaking of late nairs I want to experiment with super late nairs, like using nair after you almost fully crossup - if you look at the nair hitbox the 2nd frame the hitbox comes out is actually behind you so it'll still pressure while you're almost guaranteed to be out of their oos punish range by the time their stun ends (other than something stupid like falco sh oos reverse laser or w/e).

also every time i try to guess when an opponent is going to react out of shield i always try to catch with uair, but lately i realized im stupid and could be closing my margin of error with dsmash. harder to miss but easier to be punished for...ideas ideas...

so like i went on a huge tangent again, don't mind me >_< just wanted to write some thoughts lol

im super tired brothers

EDIT: holy crap woke up and saw this post this morning, i dont even remember writing half of this

 

[indigestible_wad]

Typically I string dsmashes after nairs instead of uair. It gives a little less range, but at edge still keeps you out of shine range, and gives peach-like shield pressure. You trade the dsmash pressure for safety though.

Early nair to me means that once you hit their shield or cc, they have loads of time until you land to make their move.

I don't know if I really like super late nairs, since it doesn't really put them in a helpful place. It just resets the two of you. Granted, that can be very useful at higher percents when you're trying to stay away, but its at best a combo finisher.

 

[Bing]

Agility doesnt trade lol, I was messing around with this for awhile last night lol

I was trying to work on up-b angles and all that Jazz, so I went into training mode with a a Fox, sent his damage to like 800% and tried to combo Up-B's to ko him, it was hella fun.

 

[oukd]

It definitely trades when the fire comes out, but with ledge invincibility you'll just pass through it.

 

[Bing]

I dunno... like I said I messing around with it a lot last night and it never traded because I would just zip right through it...

..Did ya'll die? ;-;

 

[Italis]

Pika's Agility didn't trade for me either... and i just learned that his Fair can cancel fox's upb lololol

 

[Krynxe]

Fair seems like a poor option on Fox's up+b; I'd assume they can sdi through it and still have an opportunity to recovery unlike if you used a dair/uair, which both seem more safe than fair based on the position of the fox.

What do you mean by cancel his up+b, anyways? The startup and the duration frames on firefox are rather vulnerable, it just has hitboxes so it's safer than firebird. Regardless, it's still very vulnerable and predictable while most attacks can "cancel" it.

 

[oukd]

imo there are situations where it's good and where it's not good - for me it's mostly to buy some time to increase control over edgeguarding position, usually if they're in a position where I feel like tailspiking is tricky to position OR I don't think I have enough time to put myself into a guaranteed tailspike position. fox's fallspeed mostly overpowers sdi attempts, not to mention fairing lowers fox AND places you right under him for a tailspike or an up+B hit > edgehog > aerial/ftilt/whatever (varies depending on positioning).

then again, I use fair a little more than I should, so take that with a grain of salt

 

[DeadLastClown]

Axe, how do you make Pika do that head bash so quick? I can't get it to go that fast.

 

[DerfMidWest]

practice a lot lol.
make sure you are fast falling and L-canceling all your moves.
try to make sure you are always moving.
Learn to ledge-cancel your quick attacks.
and get wavelands on platforms down.

these things will make you faster.

 

[oukd]

Wait, by head bash do you mean nair? First thing I thought of was sideB lmao. I'm not axe but what I do is use the tip of my thumb for y and the baseknuckle of my thumb for a.

heh the acronym for your name is DLC

 

[Bing]

I need to work on my movement, I sit in my shield and cc way too much

 

[N64]

imo there are situations where it's good and where it's not good - for me it's mostly to buy some time to increase control over edgeguarding position, usually if they're in a position where I feel like tailspiking is tricky to position OR I don't think I have enough time to put myself into a guaranteed tailspike position. fox's fallspeed mostly overpowers sdi attempts, not to mention fairing lowers fox AND places you right under him for a tailspike or an up+B hit > edgehog > aerial/ftilt/whatever (varies depending on positioning).

+1, i agree

 

[Spyro]

I need to work on my movement, I sit in my shield and cc way too much

I do too, I have good tech skill but I stand around too much.

 

[Krynxe]

Wait, by head bash do you mean nair? First thing I thought of was sideB lmao.

haha same here. I was very confused xD

I think practicing a lot on your own - without COMs even, just training or name entry glitch - and working on mobility can help speed ones game up significantly. Practicing things like Aesir mentioned above; just improving your own combo video and having fun with it. When you play against others, your focus is on [fighting] them. Against COMs, you usually practice attacking, combos and whatnot but they serve as a huge nuisance when you're trying to just focus on your mobility. It's just a matter on consistent practice for expertise, just try to master each individual component at a time and put it all together moving as fast as possibly can. You'll probably surprise yourself.

 

[Bing]

I've been doing break the targets for movement and tech practice lol

 

[AXE 09]

Axe, how do you make Pika do that head bash so quick? I can't get it to go that fast.

You mean rapid jabs? I just.... push A really fast lol =P

 

[oukd]

omg why didn't i realize he was talking about freakin' jab

 

[DerfMidWest]

I need to work on my movement, I sit in my shield and cc way too much

I have this same problem.
EDIT: oh jeez, I just realized what he was actually saying. I thought he was asking how you make Pika seem to move fast .-.

 

[Bing]

Axe should defs respond to my question on facebook in regards to Pika

*COUGH*

 

[AXE 09]

Hmmmmm.... PM Pikachu is weird lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w0sV-Z8liE (vs Rubyiris)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FDin9T47oA (vs Silly Kyle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGpe3VD36qM (my very first time playing. I was still trying to get used to everything lol)

EDIT:

Axe should defs respond to my question on facebook in regards to Pika

*COUGH*

Wait what was your question? Lol

 

[Silly Kyle]

Axe is amazing! Project M is totes fun! <3

 

[Bing]

Ignoring the stuff about Impulse I was curious on how to agility twice in the same direction

 

[oukd]

You can cancel PM Pika's up+B into the ground with anything you can do in the air, which means you can wd/aerial/up+B/etc. out of up+B towards the ground. It's an interesting mechanic.

More info at http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=pikachu

PM feels weird in general...it feels 'softer' if that makes any sense, where melee feels more 'crisp.' Might be just the combination of different graphics/animation/sounds...still pretty fun though. I'd still stick to melee personally

 

[AXE 09]

You can cancel PM Pika's up+B into the ground with anything you can do in the air, which means you can wd/aerial/up+B/etc. out of up+B towards the ground. It's an interesting mechanic.

More info at http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=pikachu

PM feels weird in general...it feels 'softer' if that makes any sense, where melee feels more 'crisp.' Might be just the combination of different graphics/animation/sounds...still pretty fun though. I'd still stick to melee personally

Yeah I used to play brawl Pika for a while, so I knew everything about the QAC stuff lol. But I wasn't comfortable enough to attempt wavelands from it. I know the hitbox for the Nair doesn't come out if you do it in brawl, but does it for Melee? I know Dair does since it has a hitbox when you touch the ground lol.

And yeah I know what you mean! Everything is kinda just "softer". I definitely like Melee a lot better but PM was actually pretty fun lol.

 

[indigestible_wad]

I don't have any complaints with what they did to pikachu in P:M in terms of moveset. They incorporated brawl's fast tilts and specials, and we got the QAC, effectively removing a lot of pikachu's weaknesses. Anything I have negative to say about pikachu are the physics and sizes make everything a little wonky, but they gave pikachu everything I wanted. As for other characters and the game itself, I have complaints, but I haven't played it enough to warrant an actual critique.

Anyway, I played two puffs in a row last weekend. I don't really have the puff matchup completely formulated in my mind, since a year ago there were zero jigglypuffs in my state and now there are four. I've just started to get the feel for the matchup, but since I lost to both of them, I think I might need some pointers. Any help?

 

[Bing]

umm, so does that mean you are just using up-b once twice in a row?

Like skimming the ground with it?

 

[AXE 09]

I don't have any complaints with what they did to pikachu in P:M in terms of moveset. They incorporated brawl's fast tilts and specials, and we got the QAC, effectively removing a lot of pikachu's weaknesses. Anything I have negative to say about pikachu are the physics and sizes make everything a little wonky, but they gave pikachu everything I wanted. As for other characters and the game itself, I have complaints, but I haven't played it enough to warrant an actual critique.

Anyway, I played two puffs in a row last weekend. I don't really have the puff matchup completely formulated in my mind, since a year ago there were zero jigglypuffs in my state and now there are four. I've just started to get the feel for the matchup, but since I lost to both of them, I think I might need some pointers. Any help?

There's only 2 things I noticed right off the bat that I would change about PM Pika lol.

1) His wavedash is so gross >.< It's worse than it is in Melee lol. I was so disappointed when I saw it haha.

2) I wish his Bair had less ending lag, so you can SH Bair auto cancel. When you SH, even if you start his Bair asap and don't fastfall, you still have to L cancel I feel that it should auto cancel.

There's quite a few things about his recovery that I need to get used to lol. Like if you do a quick attack diagonally upwards, he doesn't continue drifting in the horizontal direction like he does in Melee. That caught me off guard a lot lol. Sweetspotting from different angles is just different than it is in Melee. I just need to get used to it lol. Practice.

umm, so does that mean you are just using up-b once twice in a row?

Like skimming the ground with it?

Are you talking about going upwards twice? Or something else?

 

[Bing]

Sideways. Like across the stage or something

 

[Krynxe]

@wad
For the Pika puff mu, I actually talked to axe a bit at manifest and spent a bit of time working on it. (Mainly from the puff side, but I can still give enough info for pika)

Pika is hard for puff because he isn't easy to combo/WoP. Watch out for low percent utilt or uair and you're generally fine. He has a small hurtbox to be rested as well. Puff also has a hard time ledge guarding Pika, one of Puff's most important ways to get stocks, because of his great recovery. Just remember that we're constantly trying to hold that ledge and get you to up+b onto the stage for a free rest. From the puff's perspective, this MU is bair bair bair bair. Just watch out for that, and don't be too intimidated otherwise.

Puff is super floaty and Pikachu can take great advantage of that with usmash kills. Using jolt when at a distance can keep puff in the air; getting under her with that usmash is wonders. Dsmash and nairs are really good at times to stop Puff's momentum, and your uair bests her dair by miles so that can do good if she's high up above you. However, don't over-commit to [uair] edge guards because Puff can turn your edge guard into her own. Pikachu also has fantastic aeriel mobility, so you can take advantage of that as long as you're not jumping into bairs or other situations where she wants you.

This is just a bit off the top of my head. An actual pikachu player could probably add more, but I hope this helps.

Edit: This info is for melee. If you were referring to p:m for whatever reason than my mistake.

 

[AXE 09]

Sideways. Like across the stage or something

Oh lol. You just do one of the zips diagonally downwards, and the other horizontally. Just as a warning if you do this, there's gonna be tons of ending lag.

You can also go upwards twice more easily like this with the help of a wall lol. Just do 1 zip upwards/diagonally into the wall, and the other straight up. You can try it on Fourside or any stage that has a high enough wall. You can do it on Yoshi's too but you just gotta start it really low and not kill yourself lol.

umm, so does that mean you are just using up-b once twice in a row?

Like skimming the ground with it?

 

[oukd]

Hey guys I was reading the Falco boards about shine oos, someone was suggesting to PP that shining oos with cstick is a lot more effective than using up or x/y.

So, taking that into consideration - i think sh uair oos vulnerability frames can be tightened using the same technique:

• shield
• tilt up slightly
• sh with cstick
• quickly follow up with a button or cstick up (a works a lot better imo)

that way you can get the rising hitbox out asap just by hitting a, because it's so close to the cstick. im testing this now and it works like a charm, just kind of an awkward motion.

ofc this is pointless if you can do sh uair oos seamlessly with x/y/up...but I think it's useful

edit: okay just realized my explanation was kind of convoluted and that this idea doesn't apply at all lmao.

what's actually making it easy for me is buffering the up command by tilting the shield upwards, and then sh>a. that way you don't have to transfer from y to cstick for sh uair oos. using buffer up + y is actually easier than buffer up + cstick...

edit 2: omg i just realized that you could actually buffer the up command out of a bunch of stuff. man i'm feeling stupid right now. plus apparently i can do falcon-styled instant uairs now...okay disregard this whole post ~_~

 

[Spyro]

1 thing I like to do is uair oos with the analog stick. I press a as soon as I get off the ground.